Women in Engineering: The women have their say...

Structural/Civil Engineering has historically been and, sadly, still is a male-dominated profession. But has the tide turned? How, where, and why is the situation changing, and – perhaps more critically – how do women currently in the industry view their lot?

Women in Engineering is an oft-titled headline, and most forays into the subject tend to focus on either the challenges women face, or they present a case study on an individual who’s risen to the top. This particular article hopes to discuss and explore the subject from some new and different angles, and – importantly – focuses mostly on structural engineering.  And we’ll also hear from four diverse female engineers who’ll weigh into the subject with their own thoughts on the matter. But, first, let’s address the elephant in the room: Yes, I’m a male engineer, writing a piece about female engineers. It’s a bit like asking a carnivore to write an article about vegans. But it’s precisely me being male that inspired this piece in the first place…

When I enrolled in my first year of Civil Engineering at Sydney University in 1991, I recall there were roughly around 100 males and maybe nine or ten women in the Civil stream. (Structural Engineering remains a sub-branch of Civil Engineering and so, in fact, all structural engineers are actually civil. Cue the standard joke about us all being polite). The number of females in our year increased over the next twelve months as several women elected to transfer across from other disciplines, particularly Mechanical Engineering.

Over the next four years, the numbers changed as students of both genders dropped out, dropped back a year to repeat subjects, or joined us from the year above for the same reason. And we also picked up a few international students along the way. Reference to my 1994 Faculty Yearbook confirms that my final year had 106 graduates, of which 20 were female. Roughly 19%. Or 18.87% for the engineers reading this. And so the original inspiration for this piece was to explore whether this low percentage had improved in the 25 years since I’d graduated?  Is the profession attracting more females to it these days and, importantly, are these women staying in the profession for the long run?

The answer, tragically, seems to be “no.” Well, at least to the first part of that question. A faculty officer at Sydney University informed me that the current final year of Civil Engineering undergraduates comprises a female population of 20%. So, in 25 years, the number of female students has increased by just 1%. Over at the University of NSW, it’s not much better: Women account for 24% of the current final year, although UNSW was keen to point out that their female intake has increased 78% since 2014 when they launched their Women in Engineering program. (In fact, similar programs and organisations are in place at most of the universities). This is admirable, and UNSW further advised me their current first year undergraduate cohort is 26% female. Encouraging and pleasing signs for growth, although a bit of maths suggests that the female population at UNSW was as low as 14% back in 2014, so programs such as their Women in Engineering initiative are clearly needed. With the national average reported as being 17%, UNSW is making inroads.

So are we sowing a self-fulfilling outcome here? If the number of women entering the profession at its earliest stage – that is, at the tertiary studies level – is only around 20%, and it’s been that way for over two decades, then we cannot expect a more balanced gender ratio of 50/50 to suddenly and magically manifest itself in the workplace.

The key, therefore, is to encourage and inspire women to consider engineering in their younger years, i.e. when they’re in high school. However, again, it seems we’re laying the foundations for poor outcomes: If we are to promote or encourage girls into the engineering professions, then surely one of the fundamental drivers is to ensure that Engineering Studies is offered and taught as an elective subject in our high schools and, in particular, at all-girls schools.  Sadly, the facts are disappointing: I contacted 20 of Sydney’s leading single-sex girls high schools – 10 were the top girls’ private schools as nominated by this article and 10 were the top public girls high schools as ranked by their performance in the 2017 HSC results. Of the 20 schools I approached, only two (one public, one private) offers Engineering Studies as an elective and HSC option. One or two schools were even surprised or incredulous when I asked the question, which perhaps says something in itself! If we are to address the gender imbalance in our profession, then a more fundamental, grassroots campaign incorporating secondary education reform is required.

Of course, graduating from university with a Civil Engineering degree and actually taking up a career in the construction industry are two different things, and I have no idea how many of the 106 from my graduating class chose the Structural path, much less stayed in it for the next 25 years. Of my own close personal circle of friends from university (a group of eight or nine), only two of us remain structural engineers in the true sense.  The others opted for careers in other sectors, and one now runs a funeral business. I hear he makes very sturdy and durable coffins. Of the 20 women who graduated from Sydney Uni in 1994, I was able to find six of them on LinkedIn. Admittedly, this isn't the most reliable resource, given that (a) not everyone is on LinkedIn, and (b) some women may have changed their surnames with marriage since graduation and thus didn’t show up in my search. However, of the six on LinkedIn, four were in Project Management roles (one in Construction, two in Transport, and one in Communication); one was a Senior Water Engineer; and one evidently jumped ship a long time ago into Finance. On that basis, at least, it would seem the majority put their Civil Engineering degree to good use.  Although none of them are Structural Engineers.

But enough about me and my year.  What about today? What percentage of today’s structural engineering workforce are females, and how has the workface changed? Is the industry less daunting to women than the stereotype would have us believe?

 

The engineering design office is no different to any other white collar, professional office space and – to this observer – gender shouldn’t be a factor when you’re designing a steel beam, or gently explaining to an architect why their 170mm thick concrete floor slab won’t span 12 metres without a column somewhere underneath it. (Although, come to think of it, women generally have better communication skills than men and so, on this second task, I suspect female engineers actually have quite the advantage.)

However, structural engineers also spend a good deal of their time on construction sites, and it’s fair to say that not all builders appreciate the engineer looking over their shoulder or pointing out perceived mistakes. Yes, flashpoints occur, and I’ve been involved in the odd, ugly (verbal) stoush that I doubt many women would relish. Speaking with a few female engineers, if there’s any trepidation in the game, it seems to lie only on building sites. But many fresh, male graduate engineers share that trepidation also, so it’s difficult to pinpoint precisely where along the line it becomes a gender issue. But I concede it would be na?ve to pretend there aren’t a few big, old, grizzled foremen out there who haven’t tried to intimidate a woman on site during a disagreement. Nevertheless, as we’ll hear from our panellists below, respect and behaviour to engineers on building sites tends to be meted out based on your experience, attitude, and competence, rather than your gender.

Despite the stereotype, our panellists below reported having no untoward experiences with builders on site.

 

As for today’s structural engineering workforce, can we get a handle on the number of women in the profession? Unfortunately, there are no hard numbers we can cite or entities that can give an authoritative answer, at least for the structural discipline. Anecdotally, our industry estimates the figure to be around 10%, and that’s certainly the number I’ve heard bandied about for the last 10 years or so. 10% also reflects my observations at seminars and industry events. The Institution of Engineers, Australia, our industry’s main body, can give figures for its number of female members, but since membership is neither compulsory nor a requirement to work as a structural engineer, it’s not the full picture.  Across the board (i.e. all disciplines), an Engineers Australia article recently stated that women made up 12% of the total engineering workforce in Australia, and – for what it’s worth – a Wikipedia article references a 2012 publication that put the figure at 14%. But these latter two stats encompass all disciplines of engineering and construction, as well as both the private and public sectors.

Things get a little more encouraging when you look at the private sector and specifically at consulting firms. Looking at consulting engineering across the board (Civil, Mechanical, Hydraulic, Electrical, Project Management, Services, Infrastructure, Geotechnical, and so forth), the percentage of women in the workforce is closer to 20%. In fact, a number of well-known multi-disciplinary consulting engineering firms boast percentages as high as 30% (as reported in a 2017 Consult Australia document) when advising the ratio of their technical staff that are female. So it would seem Structural Engineering is the discipline that needs to lift its game.

Of course, it’s easy to focus on the gender imbalance and merely set about correcting a numerical lopsidedness. But the industry needs to do more than that. In my humble opinion, we must acknowledge that our profession needs women – and take action accordingly. We need the diversity of thought; we need the diversity of behaviour; and we need the different thinking and the different mindsets that women bring to the table – in management, design, collaboration and problem solving. For men and women think differently, and the development and progression of any profession is hampered when the brains behind and within it are dominated by one particular type only.

Everyone is comfortable these days with the concept of left-brained and right-brained people and, to be fair, engineering tends to attract those with left-wired brains. (Interestingly, when asked the question, three of our four panellists below described themselves as being left-brained.) But, more critically, there is also the male brain and the female brain. For a simple yet informative explanation of this, plus plenty of examples of how the genders think and behave differently, read this article here.  Suffice it to say, all levels of our profession – from our leaders and managers, down to our worker bees – need a better balance of men and women. As one of our panellists below (a self-confessed right-brainer) remarked, “I think understanding the difference between left and right-brained thinking is exactly why we need diversity at all levels of an organisation, not just in the HR department.”

So to explore all this further and to get the female’s perspective, I sat down with four women structural engineers at various stages of their careers to get their thoughts, observations, and sentiments. I was also keen to gauge whether the gender imbalance is as much an issue for them as it is for the headline writers. So let’s meet our four engineers:

 

 Vesna Spasovoski – Senior Engineer at Partridge – 30 years’ experience incorporating structural analysis, design, project management, and site supervision of buildings and infrastructure projects, large and small.

 

 

 

Lisa Samways – National Business Leader, Buildings Design at Arcadis – 18 years’ experience, starting out as a design engineer before moving into project management of Arcadis’ larger projects, and now heading up the national Buildings division for one of Australia’s largest engineering consultancies.

 

  

 

 Trudy Myers – Associate at Enstruct – 11 years’ experience incorporating structural analysis, design, and site supervision, plus project management.  Trudy is the current President of the ACSE – Association of Consulting Structural Engineers.

 

 

  

 

  

Nikki Akbari – Design Engineer at Partridge – four years’ experience as a design engineer in the Structural team, plus heavily involved in Partridge Event as a designer, project manager, and site supervisor/certifier.

 

 

 All four obviously have different levels of experience; they’ve worked for numerous companies (and in different countries); and come from different backgrounds. Two emigrated to Australia after starting their careers (Spasovski from Yugoslavia, Samways from Ireland). Nothing gender-related in any of that. However, Myers, Spasovoski, and Samways have added parenting to their CV’s, balancing motherhood and maternity leave with their careers, raising one, two, and three children respectively.

The boring and obvious question would be to ask, “So, what’s the biggest challenge being a woman in a male-dominated profession?” but rather than just delve into the challenges of being a female engineer, I was keen to also explore the more positive aspects. For example, what are the benefits of being a female in this game? What aspects do you bring to the workplace that benefit and improve both you and our profession? What occurrences or events in your workplace or career played out differently because you were a woman. And what attracted you to the profession in the first place?  Let’s dive in…

 

Did your high school encourage you or shape you in opting to study engineering at university?

Nikki: “I was never really interested in the construction industry – probably since I had no exposure to it, but I was always interested in design and how things fit together and how they work. I went to an all-girls school and Engineering Studies wasn’t offered as a subject, although I note it was an option at our nearby ‘brother’ school.   Towards the end of high school, I thought I wanted to go into architecture but then decided to go with the combined degree of engineering and architecture just as a bit of an extra challenge. I never expected to actually end up in engineering!”

Lisa: “I studied maths and physics and really liked both subjects. My school was also quite good and encouraged girls to do these subjects, however, more advanced maths and physics had to be done at the local boys’ school. I wasn’t really attracted to engineering at school, but my dad was a drafter and I really wanted to do something that he would be proud of, hence I chose engineering.”

Vesna: “I had always been interested in maths and physics and loved those subjects, however I didn’t have a clear vision of what I wanted to study until the very end of high school. At that time, the high schools had set subjects for all students for each particular year. Being in a socialist country which promoted equality between genders, the same subjects were taught to both boys and girls.”

Trudy: “We had career counsellors at our school who offered advice and guidance, but engineering was never recommended or explained to me. I was encouraged to utilise my strong mathematical abilities, but engineering was not presented to me as an option. Engineering Science wasn’t offered at my school.”

 

 

Can you roughly recall the percentage of females in your structural course at university?

Vesna: “In my final year, we had about 40% females, but that was back in Yugoslavia.”

Trudy: “Roughly 20% of the students in my Civil Engineering course were female. A lot of these women ended up majoring in project management, environmental engineering or other streams of the Civil course. Only a small handful of females majored in structural engineering.”

Lisa: “There were roughly 5% in my class that graduated with a degree.”

Nikki: “I did the combined Engineering/Architecture degree. If you look purely at the Engineering stream, the ratio was around 15%. However, when you take the students doing the double degree, the ratio was actually 50%!  More interestingly, close to 100% of those in the combined degree in my year ended up in engineering or project management, so very few chose a career in architecture.”

 

 

On that note, Nikki, you had the option of going down either an architectural or engineering path after graduation. Why did engineering win out in your case?

Nikki: “As soon as I started uni, I immediately realised architecture was not for me. As much as I love design and buildings, I’m not creative enough to actually design them myself! I liked the structured format of the engineering course and that there were clear rules and methods to follow.”

 

 

As structural engineers, our working day can very crudely be summarised as falling into two categories: (1) Analysis and design work, and (2) Site supervision and site works. In either category, have you ever felt (or do you feel) that being female has influenced or impacted on any given situation or common scenario that played out?

Nikki: “Yes, definitely, especially on site. A lot of builders and project managers are still not used to seeing a female engineer on site and I’m usually mistaken for the architect or just a generally lost member of the public who’s accidentally stumbled on to a construction site! Once they realise I’m actually the engineer there to sign off and approve their reinforcement or whatever, they’re all generally very nice and respectful.”

Trudy: “I think earlier on in my career when I was a fresh graduate, I felt more self-conscious of the fact that I was female (and a minority). Attending site could be nerve-wracking sometimes, and I felt I did stand out more when I was on site because of my gender – although, I hasten to add, no one was ever rude to me. I also felt that people did sometimes question your ability a bit more, or second guess your opinions, but once you had proved yourself and demonstrated that you actually knew what you were talking about, this quickly changed and you were given much more respect.

This has changed a lot in recent times, and it’s definitely much more common to have female engineers and women on site, and I no longer feel nervous or out of place when I am on site, and I also feel more respected in my role. This could come down to both the change in peoples’ attitudes towards women in the industry and also my level of experience and the confidence that comes with that. These days I find I get more of a reaction from people outside of the industry when I’m asked what I do, and I explain that I’m a structural engineer.”

Lisa: “I’ve never really felt left out being a female in engineering, however, I will say that during my maternity leave periods (all three of which involved a year off work), I did feel that my career didn’t progress much.

Vesna: “I have always found site very easy. There’s been a few difficulties, but nothing more difficult than a male colleague would have experienced. I found that taking time to talk to builders, rather than just issuing arrogant instructions, improves the builder’s relationship with the engineer, regardless of their gender. I feel that the builders taking pride in their work were especially respectful towards me. Interestingly and opposite from what one would expect, I have had more situations during my work in the design office when I felt that certain situations would have played differently if I was a male.”

  

Can you elaborate on that?

Vesna: “I generally feel that I would have been promoted more and achieved a higher office profile if I was a male. Maybe not purely based on gender per se, but simply because of the extra responsibilities that came with parenting and looking after older family members – the tasks that are still mainly performed by women. For example, when my children were little and had to be picked up from childcare on time, I would always leave work exactly at 5pm. On the other hand, my male colleagues at the time would regularly stay back until 6 or 7pm, even though we both worked in the same industry and had similar salaries. Taking time off for sick children, attending childcare/school activities and extra time for school holidays eventually slowed down my career. I don’t regret a moment of it – however, I could clearly see myself in a much different position in an office if I was a male with a much smaller share of the family responsibilities.”

Women on construction sites – engineers, architects, and project managers – are no longer a rarely-sighted event. Image courtesy Small Business Exchange

 

You’ve no doubt worked in offices and workplaces where there’s a gender imbalance. Are you ever conscious of this in the office? Does it impact your work or cramp your style? 

Nikki: “Not at all; it’s a welcome change from going to an all-girls high school! Besides, I’m used to it from uni, anyway.”

Lisa: “In my current role, I’m conscious that the only way to change things is to be part of the change. Many of my managers are female and I think this actually makes people see the imbalance even less. Our office currently has a female technical workforce of 24% and our target is 30%. However, I think when you get females in as managers, this balance will improve over time and not fluctuate from year to year. I also believe you cannot be what you cannot see, and so it’s up to all of us to ensure we have diversity at all levels.”

 

 

Can the gender imbalance affect your attitude in any way? Do you look to the other females for support or do you seek support from confidantes, regardless of their gender?

Vesna: “For me, it’s more someone’s attitude and personality type rather than gender that plays a role in making connections with people at work.”

Trudy: “I think the gender imbalance in an office has the biggest impact when first joining the organisation. It’s daunting whenever you start in a new office, but it can be even more daunting when there are mainly males and very few females. This often dissipates quickly once you start to get to know people, form your own friendship groups, and establish trust amongst your peers. I think once you get to this stage, the gender imbalance is much less noticeable – as we are all just people after all. That being said, there are occasionally instances when it is noticeable and it would be nice to have a bit more female support. There have been occasions when I’ve been in a room of 20 mid-to-senior level management staff, and been the only female. Moments like this make you reflect on the gender imbalance and question how we got here.”

 

 

Three of you have successfully balanced an engineering career with motherhood. What were the challenges with this? Did you put your career completely on hold when kids came along, or were you working through their early years?

Vesna: “I did both. After my first child, I went back to work after six months and balanced parenting and full-time work. After the second child, I took one year off work completely, and then worked part time (25 hours week) for six years after that.  I only went back to full time work when my eldest child was in high school and the younger was in third grade.”

Lisa: “I took a year off for each of our three children. For the first 10 years of my career, I was effectively an engineer working three days a week! I took on my first management role three and a half years ago.”

Trudy: “I wouldn’t have been able to do it without the support of my husband, and the support of my workplace. My husband is a fantastic, hands-on father who takes on equal responsibility in caring for and raising our son, as well as the household duties. My employer is also fantastic because they are very flexible and they allow me to work part time, which gives me the opportunity to stay at home one day a week and spend it with my son. The biggest challenge I find is leaving work on time – it’s easy to get caught up finishing off tasks, or responding to emails. It’s about managing your time, being organised and efficient so that you can leave on time, to make sure you get to spend that quality time at home with your family in the evenings.”

 

 

Trudy, you married a Structural Draftsperson and Lisa, you’re married to a Structural Engineer, so presumably your professional lives cross the domestic door threshold.

What interesting or amusing things has this triggered?

Trudy: “On one hand it’s great to be able to come home and talk shop and have a partner who understands exactly what you’re talking about. On the other hand, it’s also great to come home and not talk shop! My husband is very passionate and enthusiastic about his job, and will often come home or call me during the day to discuss all things work! We often get into debates about reinforcement detailing, steel connections, etc – not the most romantic of topics! But it is nice being able to rely on each other for advice, a different opinion, or assistance when required.”

Lisa: “Ha! We work in two completely different work environments and our discussions at home have made it very evident to us that we could never swap places and work in the other’s workplace! But we both have similar ‘people challenges’ though, and both give us a great sense of purpose.”

 

 

Not necessarily a gender-related question, but for the two of you that emigrated from Europe, what challenges/difficulties did you an encounter as an engineer coming from another country?

Vesna: “In the absence of Google back then, the hardest thing at the time was the technical terminology. Some words did not exist in my pocket dictionary. I was not embarrassed to ask questions, but I was very embarrassed when people would assume that I had never heard of a particular engineering term just because I didn’t know the English word for it.

Another difficulty in those early times was attendance at seminars and networking events. Despite my initial enthusiasm, I soon realised that networking in an area dominated by male colleagues could be difficult and rather disappointing. So at one stage I completely gave up going to seminars.”

Lisa: “It was difficult job hunting when we first got here due to codes, etc, but we were young enough to not let that hinder us too much. I was quite taken aback at the work ethic here, which seemed to be to be very strong compared to where I’d come from.”

 

 

I’ve been deliberately avoiding the boring and obvious question, but I guess we have to ask it sooner or later: What are the challenges that a woman faces or deals with in structural engineering?

Trudy: “I alluded to this earlier, but I think one of the biggest challenges is gaining the respect of your peers and others that you deal with in the industry. I feel as a female you have to work harder to gain this respect, and it’s not given to you from the outset. But once you’ve earned the respect it is a deep level of respect and appreciation.”

Vesna: “I think that women in structural engineering deal with the same challenges that women face in most other professions: Balancing work and family, equal pay, and promotion opportunities.”

Nikki: “As a woman, especially one that looks young, it’s often hard to be taken seriously as an engineer. Just last week, I was inspecting the reinforcement for a large suspended slab in the middle of the day, and a random neighbour watering his garden asked, “So do you actually know what you’re doing?” which is actually not an uncommon comment for me to get on site – I bet that doesn’t happen to male engineers anywhere near as often. I also think it takes a bit longer to gain the trust of some clients and architects, especially older ones who take a bit of time to get over the initial shock of their engineer not being a middle-aged man! This is something I am completely used to now and it doesn’t bother me at all. I know that my female friends who are doctors experience the same sort of thing all the time.”

Lisa: “In my early days, there was definitely some behaviour that wouldn’t be tolerated nowadays (e.g. posters, inappropriate emails, etc) but now that none of these things are tolerated, it’s very different these days.”

 

 

Looking from a different perspective, what are the advantages to being a female engineer? 

Lisa: “To be honest, I’d say being a female engineer today is actually advantageous in itself, and there are so many opportunities out there. Companies want diversity of ideas and a different way of doing things, and this can only be achieved by a more diverse workforce.”

Trudy: “There are definitely lots of advantages to being a female engineer. Often females are good communicators, good at multi-tasking and very organised – the perfect combination of qualities for a highly successful engineer! This places us in a good position to manage a team and also to communicate effectively with external project teams.

Being female in this male-dominated industry also means you stand out more and are remembered easily – which is usually a good thing, especially when a client is looking for an engineer for their next job!

I also think being female helps to quickly diffuse a heated situation, or prevent situations from becoming too heated. For example, on site when something goes wrong, builders can often be quite rude at times, fortunately I have only once been on the receiving end of this. I think being female, they can often be more respectful and less likely to be rude.

Lastly, since there is a big hole in the engineering community of female engineers, this means female engineers are an attractive commodity in terms of employment. Nearly all firms understand the benefits of having female engineers and are actively trying to change the gender imbalance inside their own organisations. This means female engineers are highly employable, and will often get snapped up straight out of university into a job.”

 

 

Do you think there’s a glass ceiling in our industry?

 Lisa: “This is a hard one, because I believe that if there’s women at all levels of your organisation, including the board, then there’s no glass ceiling. But if that’s not the case, then I simply don’t buy the comment that ‘No female in our business wants the role’. Women need to be encouraged and sponsored (not mentored) to take on these roles, because often the only thing stopping them is their own self-doubt.”

 

 

What aspect of your job, or what situation/moment in your career did you face and handle better than a male counterpart might have?

Lisa: “I think I handle performance of staff better than my male counterparts. If staff aren’t performing, especially during the probation period, then I make sure the person knows that they need to focus on some key things if they are to be successful at our company. I think many men find these conversations hard.”

(AD – I’m inclined to agree!)

 

 

What words or advice would you give to a girl in high school who’s contemplating enrolling in structural engineering at uni?

Trudy: “Go for it! It’s a fun, creative, challenging and rewarding profession that has a lot of interesting opportunities available. The old stereotypes that are often associated with engineers are so far from the current day reality of the profession. The industry and engineering is changing and there are a lot of fantastic opportunities awaiting you.”

Vesna: “Enjoy the studies, allow yourself to dream, get enthusiastic about structures and don’t worry about all the talk referring to structural engineering being male dominated profession.”

Nikki: “I would strongly recommend spending a day with an engineer and get to see what the job is really about. The career is so broad and there are so many different paths to go down, which aren’t all about complicated number-crunching or spending 12 hours a day on a construction site. If you’re interested in structures but prefer the more pragmatic side than the architectural design side, you can go into engineering and then figure out the role and company that has the right balance for you.”

Lisa: “You have to be really passionate about engineering and obviously we now face the digital transformation in all our businesses, so I would say that the ability to understand and interpret data is where the engineers of the future will succeed.”

———————

So what do we take away from all this? For me, the conclusions are all largely positive, but there’s work to be done.  The poor uptake of women studying civil engineering at university remains disappointing, and I was genuinely surprised to learn that female enrolment has barely increased in 25 years. However, these things can change, and the process is already underway. With dedicated awareness and recruitment programs now in place, plus women reaching greater positions of power and influence within the industry, the gender imbalance will undoubtedly improve in years to come.  And we haven’t even touched on the support and networking organisations now in place, such as the National Association of Women in Construction. And did you know that June 23rd each year is International Women in Engineering Day?

Importantly, this exercise and our discussion revealed that some of the commonly-held stereotypes for women in the construction industry are perhaps passé now. If you started reading this article expecting an account of the perils of wearing a skirt on a building site, then Doc Brown and his DeLorean are outside waiting for you. Our four panellists are optimistic, enthusiastic, and they’re proud of their work, their workplaces, their achievements and their careers.  And deservedly so.

Cheers,

AD

———————

Got any thoughts on the subject, or something to add? Leave a comment and share!