Without Limits: What it Means to Make a Workplace Accessible

In the third episode of Get Hired with Andrew Seaman's series for National Disability Employment Awareness Month (NDEAM), we're discussing the challenges people with disabilities face in the workplace. Rebecca Cokley , who is the disability rights program officer at the Ford Foundation , joins LinkedIn News Editor Andrew Seaman to share her experience navigating the world of work. She describes why accommodations are productivity tools for employers —?not special favors. Additionally, Rebecca explains how people without disabilities can be allies to those who do.

A transcript of the conversation is below. You can listen to the episode above or wherever you like to listen by clicking here.

• Explore the first episode in the NDEAM series, featuring Emily Ladau, by clicking here.
• Explore the second episode in the NDEAM series, featuring Luticha Andre Doucette , by clicking here.

TRANSCRIPT: Without Limits: What it Means to Make a Workplace Accessible

Andrew Seaman: If you didn't know, October is National Disability Employment Awareness Month, or NDEAM for short. Here at Get Hired, we're celebrating the stories, talents, and contributions of workers with disabilities. We're also talking about the challenges people with disabilities still face during the job search process. This is the third episode in our NDEAM series, and today we're talking about what's happening at employers, including how return-to-office mandates affect people with disabilities. We'll get into that and more right after the break. From LinkedIn News, this is Get Hired, a podcast for the ups and downs and the ever-changing landscape of our professional lives. I'm Andrew Seaman, LinkedIn's editor-at-large for jobs and career development, bringing you conversations with experts who, like me, want to see you succeed at work, at home, and everywhere in between.

My guest today is Rebecca Cokley, program officer for US disability rights at the Ford Foundation. Rebecca became the Ford Foundation's first program officer to oversee disability rights in 2021. Before that, she spent nearly two decades in Washington DC fighting for more robust policies and programs aimed at supporting the disability community. Rebecca joined me to discuss her path to activism, how workplace accommodations change during and after COVID, and how job seekers can spot a disability-friendly employer. Here's Rebecca.

Rebecca Cokley: Honestly, my original dream back in the '80s was to be a civil rights attorney because I was obsessed with LA Law in the '80s, specifically Jimmy Smits. My mom thought I was into it actually because there was a character played by a little person actor named David Rappaport, who was a civil rights lawyer. And so, my mom thought I was that into the show because there was actual disability representation, but I was totally into it because of Jimmy Smits.

Both my parents were big movement people. My mom ran a disability student services office at a community college where she helped people with disabilities get access to the accommodations they needed to do well in school. And my dad ran a Center for Independent Living, which is a grassroots disability-led social justice organization focused on improving the rights of disabled people to be in the community, and both of them were little people. And so, I grew up ... Unlike 80% of people with disabilities, I grew up as the only person like them in their family. I grew up with parents who experienced discrimination.

My dad was never able to vote in our local polling place because it was a church, and churches are carved out in the ADA. We would always end up having to go in and bring the ballot out to him to have him vote in his car. My mom was denied tenure because she could only reach the bottom six inches of a chalkboard, and they said, "What kind of educator would you be if you can only use the bottom six inches of a chalkboard?"

And so, I grew up with regular conversations around politics and civil rights. I wanted to be a civil rights lawyer. I bombed the LSAT epically numerous times, and so I ended up working in retail for a while. I spent five years in management for Victoria's Secret in San Francisco, and I actually give a lot of credit to that job. It's one of those things that often people will skip over in my resume or my bio, and I'm like, "I actually really learned management in that job. I learned how to talk to people." Once you sell underwear to somebody and make them want to pay a lot of money for it, you can talk about nuclear arms deals. You can talk about immigration policy. You can talk about pretty much anything to anyone and make a case for it. And so, I moved to DC after spending some time interning for my member of Congress, and in '04 I ended up getting connected with the Obama Administration before there was an administration

Andrew: And the disability community ... Obviously, it's so wide and diverse, and it cuts across every racial line, sexual orientation, ethnicity. For people out there who say, "How large is the community? And what does it encompass?" what would you tell them?

Rebecca: I think the power of the definition of disability in the ADA I think is really critical to talk about. The way that disability is defined ... It's any mental or physical condition that impacts activities of daily living. A history or a record of such an impairment. And so, it's broad enough ... The history or record of includes people that are cancer survivors. Let's say you have a condition that comes in and out of remission, like Crohn's or IBS. You might be in remission, but the fact that you could leave remission and be impacted again means that you still have those protections under the ADA.

I have a physical disability or an apparent disability. I have dwarfism, and so people can usually tell when I walk in the room that I'm not the average person that they're used to talking to. And if you ask most people, they would tell you that my most disabling condition is probably my dwarfism, and they would be wrong. My most disabling condition is actually my migraines. My dwarfism doesn't keep me home for three days in a row with my head in the toilet and the lights off and ice packs on my neck, but my migraines will. And you can't see my migraines. And so, the definition of the ADA is broad enough to include migraines and chronic fatigue or, as it's now called, myalgic encephalomyelitis.

It includes people who are disabled as a result of trauma, whether it be mental or physical trauma. People who are disabled as a result of environmental injustice. The kids in Flint, Michigan that are 4,000 days out still drinking lead-contaminated water. They count, as do their family members, when we think about who counts as a person with a disability because these things impact those activities of daily living, whether it be how you get dressed in the morning, what you eat, when you eat, how you engage with your loved ones, the activities that we all sometimes take for granted. When we see those things impacted by the condition that a person lives with, that's when it becomes a disabling condition.

I often think about the 30-second commute from the Oval Office to the residence at the White House. That commute was created by FDR when he moved the Oval Office from what is now the Roosevelt Room to where it is now so that they could pave the path outside the Oval Office straight to the residency so that he could go in his wheelchair without being seen by the press. And the incline formulation for that ramp became the earliest federal standard for what ramps should look like because that was a ramp in a federal building. That was probably, at the time, one of the only ramps in a federal building. Every time I would take people on White House tours when I was working there, I would always talk about that and be like, "That ramp is early evidence of universal design, and it's also such a critical piece of basic accommodation for so many."

Andrew: What would you say is the state of disability access, disability accommodations, in workplaces these days? Because it feels weird after COVID.

Rebecca: I think what was so fascinating about COVID was we watched non-disabled people, like Columbus disability accommodations, that they discovered it. Oh, my gosh. Land ho. There is this thing. It's called telework, and our workers can still work. They can work from home. They can have their needs met, and we'll still get the work done. And the disability community was like, "Yeah, that's great. We've been asking for telework for 30 years, and y'all have told us that it was not a reasonable request."?

And so, I think there was a real opportunity in the return-to-office time for workplaces to reimagine what the accommodations process looked like. Asking people, "What worked better for you at home during that time than now? Is it that you have a chair that's more comfortable? Is it that you felt less pressure to sit at your desk all day? You could get up and work outside? Get some fresh air? You could switch rooms? You could go to the bathroom when you needed to without walking by that annoying coworker who's like, 'You're going to the bathroom again?' that everybody has run into at some job."

When I came back to work, I was very open with my direct supervisor about my accommodations and how they were going to shift with return to office, and I give a lot of credit to my supervisor because she came from a space of organizing, and so she had a knowledge about disability already, and so I wasn't uncomfortable saying, "Hey, I'm going to need to increase my telework when there's really bad barometric pressure and humidity because that triggers my migraines really bad. Or if I'm having joint pain because of my arthritis. And what do we need to do in terms of our communication to make sure we're on the same page?"

Where I know a lot of people don't have those types of trusted relationships. And so, I think we often put the onus on the disabled person where it's like you have to tell the right story. And I think, as disabled people, we're trained to tell the worst story possible because people often don't believe you. And it really could be a hell of a lot easier if employers actually understood that accommodations are productivity tools, and they help you do your job versus you asking for something special.

Andrew: And when people are looking for an employer that really embraces accommodations for their employees who are disabled, what are the hallmarks of a good employer, would you say?

Rebecca: I think health benefits. I think paid family leave. We know that the percentage of people with disabilities who take PFMLA, just like LGBT folks ... 60% of them take it to care for someone who's not a biological relative. It might be you're taking leave to care for your caregiver. You might be taking leave to care for a neighbor or somebody who's been a provider to you in some way, shape, or form. I think it's really interesting that that number is identical across the LGBT community and the disability community. I look for insurance. What kind of insurance do they have? My kids and I see doctors in Delaware, and we live in New Jersey. And so, it's important that I have a PPO so that I can go see doctors out of network.

I also ... Frankly, I look at the company's website. I look at pictures of their events. Are there people with disabilities there? And if you have people with disabilities on your website, are they actual people with disabilities? Or is it somebody in a wheelchair 12 sizes too big for them that they have no ability to push the wheels? It's a hospital chair that they rented for a film set. On the application, do they have, "If you have questions about accommodations, here's who to reach out to,"? If there's documents that you can download, do they have it in alternate formats? Can you change the color contrast? I mean, 34 years after the ADA, I'm still looking. Is your building accessible? It should be a given at this point, but it really isn't.

Andrew: We'll be right back with Rebecca Cokley.

Andrew: And we're back with Rebecca Cokley, program officer for US disability rights at the Ford Foundation.

From the employer standpoint, we do see unemployment rates so much higher for people with disability. What can employers do? How do we start fixing that?

Rebecca: I think it starts with acknowledging the people with disabilities you have already in your workplace who are likely not being accommodated.

I honestly think one of the best things the federal government ever created was the Job Accommodation Network, which is a technical assistance center that the Department of Labor's Office of Disability Employment Policy has funded for probably two decades at this point. And as an employee, you can go to Jan. You can either call them or go to their website and say, "Hey, I just got diagnosed with this, or maybe I've had this for forever, but I've never figured out how to accommodate it. What suggestions do you have?" And they have a whole bunch of tools and resources and suggestions. They can help you talk through, what does your accommodations letter need to look like? How do you have that conversation with your boss? What are organizations that you should be connected to for additional supports and resources?

And then as a boss, you can do the same thing. As an employer, they have an employer side, and you can call and say, "I have an employee with ADHD. And holy buckets. I don't know how to accommodate them. And it is now becoming a management challenge. How do I fix this? What do we need to do internally?" Because it's not the employee's fault if they've disclosed, and they've asked for accommodations. What do we need to do to get right?

I've been a disability advocate my entire life, but my parents had been disability advocates. It's the family business. And I remember, actually, I had this conversation with Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley. We were having lunch, and she's a member of Congress with a disability. And I was like, "AP, I have to go have a conversation with my boss about accommodations." And she's like, "Why are you worried?" She's like, "You've been doing this for 40 years." She's like, "Why is it you're nervous asking your boss for telework?" And she's like, "If you're nervous, think about how 90% of the people in the world feel." And I was like, "Great. That doesn't make me feel any better."

But it was ... I think it is really true. There's a disabled poet, Harriet McBryde, that used to say, "You get proud by practicing." It is one of those things where you have to practice it. You practice your disclosure. You practice it with different people. You practice it differently for a date versus a job interview. And I think people think that, especially for people with visible disabilities, that it might be easier, but it's just different. And I think people with visible disabilities think people with invisible disabilities have it easier because they can pass. And I think there's a moment of recognition that it all sucks for everybody. It sucks in different ways, and the only way out is through.

Andrew: I think part of that is also, if someone comes to you, if you're a manager, if you're in an employer, if you're working in the HR space, leaning into that conversation, don't treat it as something that has to be hushed about. Obviously, give it respect, and give it empathy. But I saw something recently about someone saying that they needed accommodations, and someone goes, "Oh, you're not disabled," or trying to cheer them up. And it's one of those things where you can lean into the conversation and say, "Okay, let's address this together."

Rebecca: I mean, I remember when I had the accommodations conversation when I worked retail when I worked for Victoria's Secret, and I remember saying to my boss, "I'm going to need some accommodations." In her head, she was like, "How do we move everything from up high down low?" She and I joke about it now, but she was totally spiraling. And I was like, "I just need a step stool, an old-school Rubbermaid step stool, in every room of the store." And I was like, "It literally costs $15 at CVS." And she was like, "That's it?" And I was like, "Yeah, that's all I need."

Andrew: They didn't need to buy new clothes racks.

Rebecca: I was like, "You don't need to buy new clothes racks. You don't need to settle the mannequins to my height." That would be kind of cool. But I'm like, "It's just a step stool." And I think there is this fear from employers at the minute they open the conversation that they start seeing the dollar signs. We have the data that tells us that 80% of accommodations cost less than $200.

Andrew: And this is why I think the fight against DEI is so ridiculous in the business space because there's enough evidence to show that your bottom line is stronger and increases when you embrace a diverse workforce.

Rebecca: It's like captioning. You think about the number of people that use captioning that are not deaf. I mean, it's the curb-cut mentality. When you make things accessible for people with disabilities, they become more accessible for everybody. I go around and sing the Maui You're Welcome song from Moana. When I watch non-disabled people use the accommodation, I was like, "What can we say except you're welcome?" Because I'm like, "You have that because disabled people fought for it. They took pickaxes to curb cuts."

Andrew: And obviously we could talk about this forever, but what do you want people to take away and carry throughout the year, especially people who want to be allies to their colleagues who have disabilities?

Rebecca: It can be really hard for people to make themselves vulnerable in asking for accommodations. I think there's a belief that people who ask for accommodations are entitled or that we're asking for something special when we're just basically asking for basic tools to be able to perform the essential functions of our job.

And so, I think, how do you create spaces where people feel safe asking? If you run the LGBT ERG, are you collaborating with the Disability ERG to come in and talk about that experience and what it's like? Because chances are there are folks in the LGBT ERG that don't feel they can belong in the Disability ERG. If you're part of the African-American ERG, how do you bring in disability? And not just in October but year round. Because we know people of color and LGBT folks are more likely to also identify as having a disability.

I think there are always opportunities to bring knowledge into the space. I think there's always opportunities to bring people in to talk to create moments of solidarity.

Andrew: Yes, definitely. Well, thank you so much, Rebecca.

Rebecca: Thank you so much. This was wonderful.

Andrew: That was Rebecca Cokley, program officer for US disability rights at the Ford Foundation.

And, as with all episodes in this series for National Disability Employment Awareness Month, there is so much we don't have time to cover. We're putting additional links in our show notes to help you find more resources. And if you're leaving the conversation with a new learning to apply to your job search or career, I'd like to invite you to write about it in a review on Apple Podcasts. Our team really enjoys reading what you learn from our shows. Plus, it helps other people discover our community.

Speaking of community, remember that we're always here backing you up and cheering you on. Connect with me, Andrew Seaman, and the Get Hired community on LinkedIn to continue the conversation. In fact, subscribe to my weekly newsletter that's called, you guessed it, Get Hired to get even more information delivered to you every week. You can find those links in the show notes. And, of course, don't forget to click the follow or subscribe button to get our podcasts delivered to you every Wednesday because we'll be continuing these conversations on the next episode right here wherever you like to listen.

Get Hired is a production of LinkedIn News. The show is produced by Grace Rubin and Emily Reeves. Assaf Gidron engineered our show. Joe DiGiorgi mixed our show. Dave Pond is Head of News Production. Enrique Montalvo is our executive producer. Courtney Coupe is the Head of Original Programming for LinkedIn. Dan Roth is the Editor-in-Chief of LinkedIn. And I'm Andrew Seaman. Until next time, stay well. And best of luck.