"Why We Need to Get Comfortable Talking About Race At Work"

Today’s interview is with Veronica King, MA, DipITOL, Business and Executive Career Coach.

Veronica has come from an educational background in further and higher education,

Mentoring colleagues in the workplace on their career development has been her way of giving back and she uses her own work and life experiences to build capacity in others.

She is an experienced Motivational Speaker to audiences of up to 5k and runs EDS Coaching and Consulting which helps business owners to grow their business to the level of success they want. Veronica has coached leaders to become confident, focused individuals in leading change. The businesses she coaches are established, successful local businesses.

Louisa:

Thank you for taking time out to join me today Veronica. I know you are very busy and I appreciate your input to this very important topic.

So Veronica, what would you say are the 3 key things which have positively impacted on your career progression and successes?

Veronica:

This is going to sound like I am promoting myself, but one of the things which really helped me was getting a coach and a mentor.  I began to appreciate this when I ran a company for 10 years leading a large team. So I had a coach while I was coaching others and that really helped me progress to where I am today.

 It helped me with my mind-set, it helped me with my resilience and it helped me with my vision and purpose. That is what I would really say helped me

Louisa:

What were the other 2 things that helped you?

Veronica:

Combining my experience with getting a qualification in training. I am a qualified lecturer and experienced speaker but having studied coaching and looking at what really matters has helped a great deal. So the combination of training and the experience that I have.

The third thing was my experience of working with people from all different backgrounds; that is invaluable because it gave me an insight into the diversity of people in the industry and people who have dreams and goals that they want to work on

Louisa:

If you could have seen into the future what would you have done differently to improve your experiences?

Veronica:

Oh my goodness.  It has been such a fantastic journey and a bit of a roller coaster at times. I wouldn’t change the journey I’ve had. But perhaps I would have travelled the world more. The journey I have had has been tremendous. I have learned so much and gained so much in terms of knowledge and understanding people and understanding my own role. So I wouldn’t change any of it really.

Louisa:

What do think we as BAME individuals need to do differently to impact on the data? (Some 78% of UK companies have a senior leadership team that fails to reflect the demographics and population – McKinsey’s Report “Diversity Matters”)

Veronica:

I think one of the first things we have to do, is, to do things for ourselves. We have to be proactive in seeking to change the landscape. No-one can do that for us, so we have to do what we need to, in order to get on board and do the things that will make the difference for us and change the situation. One of the ways to do that is having our voices heard wherever that is possible. 

Louisa:

How do you think individuals can individuals challenge organisational barriers to progression?

 Veronica:

We need to put ourselves out there. I know it is happening but all of us need to join forces and really be there in a positive visible way so that it will be known that we are not satisfied with being on the fringes or being marginalised. Because a lot of us are highly qualified and capable and all we need is the opportunity to use those skills and to help others like us to engage and to succeed. We have to be proactive and make the change we want to see. 

Louisa:

I think it sounds easier than it is in practice

Veronica:

I agree. The thing is, it is difficult when we feel isolated and that is where joining forces with others is going to give us the strength to challenge the status quo within organisations. It can be lonely of course.  It can be extremely challenging and I have heard stories that are absolutely horrendous. I know that these things happen because of who the individuals were and because they are not considered to be an important part of that organisation. So yes, we need to build that community for ourselves. That will give us that bandwidth to really challenge because it is not easy. We have to overcome many hurdles. A lot of the stuff that we face, and it sounds like a cliché, there are institutions like this and until we challenge them and get them looked at, then nothing will change

Louisa:

To some of our readers, when you describe this, it sounds like it is a war or a battle

Veronica:

It isn’t so much of a battle but a consciousness that we have to have. We are not going into the work place thinking pessimistically. We have to be optimistic about change and that change can happen. Even though it may be hard we have to put ourselves in those positions that are going to make a change

Louisa:

What would you say to those listeners who may be going through a difficult situation at work and are finding it difficult to challenge the barriers they can see at work against progression? What sort of practical steps would you suggest in terms of, mind-set, vision and practical steps to support them through this?

Veronica:

I would say everyone in the workplace has a line manager that they report to, and that is the first place to start. I would really recommend that and it is just having that honest conversation with them and getting their feelings and views of what they think. What they think of you as a person, to start with, and then you can rule that out. Some of us tend to be quite introverted but the thing is, what we have to do is find colleagues in the organisation who are like us, if possible, and talk to them see what you can do together. Speak to HR and start to have the conversations

Louisa:

The reports repeatedly say that organisations are uncomfortable talking about race. What would you say to Leaders who want to start having the “big girl, big boy” conversations to make sure that we are providing equal opportunities across the board?

Veronica:

I’m self-employed so my clients will come from everywhere and again we have some of them who work for organisations and some work for themselves. If they are in an organisation we encourage them to make sure what they feel and see is taken into account within that organisation.  

One of the problems that a lot of us face is when we go for promotion.  It’s not always positive and even though we may be qualified and have the experience we are perceived differently. We know that and we feel that. 

We have to make sure race is talked about not just put on a form. When you fill that form which asks which ethnic group you belong to, you don’t just want it on the form you want it to be talked about within the organisation. I suggest the people who are most influential will have to set up a forum for that discussion and invite these organisations along, so that it can be brought out into the public. Some organisations will want to talk about it and others won’t know where to start, they might be embarrassed and not quite sure how it will be accepted. But if there is a forum and you invite these organisations along and you want them to better implement their diversity and inclusion policy, you can get people talking about it. I think that would make a difference.

Louisa:

What examples of great inclusive leadership have you experienced or seen in practice? 

Not a great deal I will admit. For example, there are Black, Asian & Minority Ethnic people In good positions and sometimes they isolate themselves. I don’t know if they think that this is what they need to do to get on. I don’t think is helpful, because lot of us have the ability to get there. Mentorship, is a good thing, where you have BAME people within the work place and they see you (as a BAME person) in that position it is someone they can emulate. So it is important that we be more visible and more engaging instead of isolating ourselves.

Louisa:

How did you manage to negotiate politics against being your authentic self?

Veronica:

It wasn’t easy. But one of the things I did was use my capabilities and my professionalism; my approach to what I do was key to me but also I had to demonstrate my capabilities and I also had to deliver the highest value and service in the organisation that I worked with. This was always top of my agenda. There were recognitions but to begin with it wasn’t there so I had to work really hard and be focused on what I needed to do to change the landscape and change the views of those people. I used my experience and my God given talents to demonstrate this. 

Louisa:

What successful strategies did you have to embrace and tackle conflict situations?

Veronica:

I think communication is a great thing. In those cases I think I would ask for a meeting with my manager to express my feelings and views about certain behaviours and some of them can be challenging. That is what I did. Sometimes I had to walk away because it was too difficult to change people’s perception and it’s all about people. So there have been times where I’ve had to walk away because the perception that is held about me or the treatment I was receiving wasn’t going to change. Sometimes organisational culture is difficult to navigate and difficult to change and sometimes you have to do the ultimate and just walk away. I know it doesn’t always solve the issue but you have to weigh up the situation and decide if it is the right thing to do.

Louisa:

Veronica, on a scale of 1 -10 to what degree do you think you have reached your full potential at work? (1 being: You have barely began to reach your full potential and 10 being: You are already at your full potential at work achieving and performing at your best)

Veronica:

Take into consideration my age and experience I don’t know if I will ever reach my full potential. I have put myself on a trajectory to always learn; to always be developing and be emotional intelligent.  Because you have to make several changes in your life if you are fortunate to reach your full potential I think it is a bit sad.

If I am pushed for an answer I would say, I am about 8

Louisa:

Finally, on a scale of 1-10 to what degree do you feel your ethnicity may have hindered your progression at work? (1 being: You don’t believe your ethnicity has impacted on your progression at work and 10 being: You are certain that your ethnicity has profoundly hindered your progress at work?

Veronica:

I’d say about 5 because I don’t feel that in a lot of positions I could progress easily without compromising myself, my beliefs,  and be totally congruent.

Thank you very much Veronica for sharing some valuable insights and thoughts with us

Through BAME to Boardroom I am talking to Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic people about their challenges and successes at work and sharing these conversations with you. Perhaps for those reading this, some of the elements we have talked about today can inspire you to start to have some of those conversations with colleagues today.

I am on a personal mission to support a movement to increase the number of BAME professionals into Leadership and Boardroom roles in the UK. If you are interested to know about our Dialogue Programme for employers or 90 day BAME Be Visible Be Confident Coaching Programme please click here to find out more: https://bit.ly/LouisaAboutBAMEBeVisibleBeConfident

Please connect with me at [email protected] to find out more about our Dialogue Programme or perhaps you would like to take part in one of our interviews. 

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