Whoa! A.I. Podcast Hosts Discuss “The Mistakes That Make Us”

I've played around with ChatGPT before (including in a few blog posts ), but the advancements in A.I. technologies are pretty breathtaking.

I recently tried out the new “Notebook LM” tool from Google .

I uploaded a PDF of my latest book, The Mistakes That Make Us: Cultivating a Culture of Learning and Innovation, and it was able to generate a realistic-sounding podcast episode about the book. It's like an NPR podcast in tone and style. There's a male A.I. host and a female A.I. host bantering about the book as they recap some of the key points and themes.

It's not perfect — they pronounce my name wrong in a few different ways — but it's a fascinating experiment in how to take a really long document and summarize it in a consumable way.

They definitely didn't say everything exactly the way I would have stated it. However, the podcast seems to perfectly simulate the discussion that two people might have after both reading and enjoying the book.

This originally appeared on LeanBlog.org.

Automated Transcript (Also by A.I.):

Note, the A.I. wasn't perfect and I had to edit the spelling of my last name from Graben or Graven to Graban.

Male Host: Hey, everyone, and welcome back. Today, we're really diving deep into The Mistakes That Make Us . By Mark Graban.

Female Host: Oh, yeah, this one's great.

Male Host: Have you ever wondered how some people and companies seem to just bounce back from setbacks even stronger?

Female Host: Yeah, like, stronger than ever.

Male Host: Yeah. So we're gonna find out those secrets today.

Female Host: It's interesting because what's fascinating about Graban's book is it's not about, like, avoiding mistakes.

Male Host: Right.

Female Host: Because, let's face it, it's impossible. We all mess up. Yeah, we all mess up sometimes. It's about what happens after the mistake.

Male Host: Totally.

Female Host: Graban dives into what's called psychological safety. It's kind of like the idea that you can openly address mistakes without the fear of, well, everything blowing up in your face.

Male Host: Okay, let's unpack that. Psychological safety. It sounds like a therapists dream, but how does that work? Like, in the real world, in a real workplace?

Female Host: Think of it this. Imagine feeling comfortable enough to say, I don't know, or, I messed up to your boss. And instead of being lectured, you get guidance and support.

Male Host: Okay.

Female Host: That's psychological safety.

Male Host: I like that.

Female Host: Harvard professor Amy Edmondson actually defines it as a belief that one will not be punished or humiliated for speaking up with ideas, questions, concerns, or mistakes.

Male Host: It's powerful.

Female Host: It's about creating an environment where vulnerability isn't a weakness, it's a strength.

Male Host: Yeah. So it's less about avoiding those mistakes and more about how we react to them.

Female Host: Exactly.

Male Host: Like, take the story of Ken Siegel from the book.

Female Host: Okay.

Male Host: He's a rookie congressional aide for Congressman Howard Berman, and he accidentally misquotes his boss to USA Today.

Female Host: Talk about a heart stopping moment, right?

Male Host: I would be clearing out my desk.

Female Host: Right? Most people would.

Male Host: Yeah.

Female Host: But Congressman Berman reacts unexpectedly. He calmly asks Siegel if he understands why the misquote was a problem and then encourages him to learn from it. And then literally tosses the article in the trash.

Male Host: Wow. Talk about a power move that throws away the blame game.

Female Host: Right.

Male Host: But seriously, that's a powerful example of psychological safety in action. Instead of public humiliation, Siegel gets a valuable lesson and the chance to grow.

Female Host: It's true.

Male Host: But what's interesting is how that approach probably impacted the whole team, not just Siegel.

Female Host: Absolutely. That one interaction sent a very clear message. Mistakes happen. We learn from them, and we move on together. That kind of environment fosters trust, and it encourages people to take calculated risks, and ultimately, it leads to better performance. Because everyone's not walking on eggshells.

Male Host: Right. It makes you wonder how differently things would have played out for those surgeons Graban talks about in the book.

Female Host: Oh, yeah.

Male Host: You know, the ones who made the wrong side incision.

Female Host: Oh, that's a stark contrast.

Male Host: Yeah.

Female Host: The atmosphere in that operating room was pure fear.

Male Host: Right.

Female Host: Opposite of psychological safety. No one felt comfortable speaking up even when they knew a mistake was happening.

Male Host: Wow.

Female Host: And as a result, the attending surgeon felt compelled to lie to the patient.

Male Host: Oh, no.

Female Host: Compounding the error.

Male Host: Wow.

Female Host: It really highlights how a lack of psychological safety can literally put lives at risk.

Male Host: Yeah. It makes you realize how crucial it is for leaders to kind of, like, set the tone.

Female Host: Absolutely. It's like grabon talks about CEO's and leaders. They need to get comfortable saying, I don't know, and I made a mistake.

Male Host: Yeah. Which can be really tough, especially in a world that often equates leadership with always having the answers.

Female Host: Right. But think about it. When leaders show vulnerability, it gives everyone else permission to do the same.

Male Host: That's true.

Female Host: It creates that space for honesty, for asking questions, and ultimately for innovation.

Male Host: Yeah. It's about creating a culture where it's safe to be human, to not have all the answers, to make mistakes and learn from them.

Female Host: I like that.

Male Host: Speaking of learning from mistakes, Raban talks about a small batch bourbon distillery in Texas. Garrison brothers distillery.

Female Host: Okay. Yeah.

Male Host: They were experimenting with aging their bourbon longer in that intense Texas heat.

Female Host: Yeah.

Male Host: Sounds like a recipe for something good, right?

Female Host: You'd think so, but it backfired big time.

Male Host: Oh, no.

Female Host: Costing them somewhere between $150,000 to $300,000.

Male Host: Wow.

Female Host: Talk about an expensive experiment.

Male Host: Ouch. What happened?

Female Host: Well, they were pushing the boundaries of bourbon, making, you know, trying to achieve a really unique flavor profile. But the intense heat ended up ruining the batch.

Male Host: Oh, man.

Female Host: Now, most master distillers would try to sweep that kind of loss under the rug, right?

Male Host: Yeah, I can imagine the temptation to pretend it never happened.

Female Host: Right? But that's not what Donnas Todd Garrison brothers master Distiller did.

Male Host: Okay?

Female Host: He owned up to the mistake, even though it was a costly one.

Male Host: Wow.

Female Host: And here's the important part. The company didn't punish him for it.

Male Host: Good.

Female Host: Instead, they embraced it as a learning experience.

Male Host: Okay.

Female Host: They even made changes to their barrel design to better withstand that Texas climate.

Male Host: How interesting. So instead of a cover up, they got a master class in heat resistant bourbon. Mate. That's impressive.

Female Host: It is. And it speaks to a key principle grabon highlights throughout the book, the power of small failures. Okay, the idea is to test your assumptions on a smaller scale before going all in.

Male Host: Kind of like that hospital grab on talks about where they wanted to address the issue of patients accidentally knocking things off their beds.

Female Host: Right.

Male Host: Instead of outfitting the entire hospital with expensive new bedside tables, they started with a single bed and a $20 caddy.

Female Host: Exactly. It's about embracing what we call iterative success, okay? Trying things out, learning from them, and making adjustments along the way.

Male Host: I like it.

Female Host: You minimize the risks, and you maximize the learning potential.

Male Host: It reminds me of that saying, fail early, fail often, but maybe a bit less intimidating.

Female Host: Definitely. And this approach isn't limited to just distilleries and hospitals. Think about software development.

Male Host: Okay.

Female Host: Graban shares the story of Melissa, a software developer who poured her heart into building this new product, only to realize they had built the wrong thing.

Male Host: Oh, that's gotta hurt.

Female Host: It does, and it highlights a common pitfall.

Male Host: Okay.

Female Host: Getting so caught up in the. Like what we can build that, we forget to ask the why. Why are we building this in the first place? And what problem are we actually trying to solve?

Male Host: It's like that classic example of the better mousetrap. You can build the most technologically advanced mousetrap the world has ever seen.

Female Host: Right.

Male Host: But if no one wants to buy it, what's the point?

Female Host: Exactly. So how do we avoid falling into that trap? It goes back to testing assumptions, gathering feedback, and being open to changing course along the way. It's amazing how a small adjustment early on can save you from a major headache down the line.

Male Host: It's all about those small steps, those little experiments that can help us course correct and ultimately lead to bigger successes.

Female Host: Speaking of course correction, remember that story about the Kynexis webinar where the Internet cut out?

Male Host: Oh, yeah. Talk about perfect timing.

Female Host: Ironically, the webinar was on the topic of mistakes.

Male Host: Oh, the irony.

Female Host: Right. And you know the CEO, Greg Jacobson, did.

Male Host: What did he do?

Female Host: He laughed it off.

Male Host: Good.

Female Host: Because in a culture that embraces mistakes, even a tech fail becomes a teachable moment.

Male Host: It makes you realize how much we're conditioned to fear messing up, even in small ways.

Female Host: Oh, yeah.

Male Host: Like, I still cringe when I think about that time I forgot to hit record during a podcast interview.

Female Host: We've all been there. But imagine if instead of that sinking feeling in your stomach, you felt empowered to say, hey, mistake happened. Let's figure out how to fix it and move on.

Male Host: Totally. It's about shifting that internal dialogue from I'm such an idiot to, okay, what can I learn from this?

Female Host: Precisely. And that's where self compassion comes in.

Male Host: Oh.

Female Host: Kristin Neff, a leading expert on self compassion, talks about how we tend to be much harder on ourselves than we would be on a friend who made the same mistake.

Male Host: It's so true.

Female Host: She even shares a story in the book about how she completely lost her cool with a colleague during a meeting.

Male Host: Oh, no.

Female Host: And this is someone who literally wrote the book on self compassion.

Male Host: Wow.

Female Host: It just goes to show we're all human, right? Even the experts. What matters is how we respond to those moments.

Male Host: That's so true.

Female Host: It's not about beating ourselves up, but about learning from those experiences and extending ourselves the same grace and understanding that we would offer to others.

Male Host: Absolutely. And when we approach our mistakes with that kind of self compassion, it opens up a space for real growth and learning.

Female Host: I totally agree.

Male Host: Speaking of growth, Gremlin mentions this intriguing idea that intelligent people actually make more mistakes.

Female Host: It sounds counterintuitive, right?

Male Host: It does.

Female Host: But when you think about it, it makes sense.

Male Host: Yeah.

Female Host: The more you're willing to try new things, to step outside your comfort zone, the more likely you are to stumble along the way.

Male Host: It's like that old saying, the only way to avoid making mistakes is to do nothing.

Female Host: Exactly. And who wants a life of doing nothing? Mistakes are proof that we're living, learning, and growing.

Male Host: Totally.

Female Host: It's the price of admission for a life of innovation and discovery. So true. But it's not enough to simply tell people to be more open to mistakes.

Male Host: Right.

Female Host: We have to create an environment where that's actually possible.

Male Host: You're absolutely right.

Female Host: Right.

Male Host: It starts with leadership.

Female Host: Okay.

Male Host: Leaders need to set the tone by being open about their own mistakes, by asking for help when they need it, and by rewarding those who speak up when they see a problem.

Female Host: It's about creating that culture of we're all in this together, where it's safe to be fallible and to learn from each other.

Male Host: I love that we're all in this together.

Female Host: Yeah.

Male Host: That's the essence of psychological safety right there.

Female Host: Totally.

Male Host: And it's not just about being nice. It's about creating an environment where people feel empowered to do their best work.

Female Host: Right. Because when people feel safe and supported, they're more likely to take risks, to innovate, and to go above and beyond.

Male Host: It's like that story about Alan Mulally, the CEO who transformed Ford.

Female Host: Oh, yeah.

Male Host: He inherited this culture where admitting problems was seen as a sign of weakness.

Female Host: Right.

Male Host: And he completely flipped the script.

Female Host: He did.

Male Host: He asked his executives to color code their status updates.

Female Host: Okay.

Male Host: Green for good, yellow for caution, and red for trouble.

Female Host: And at first, everyone was green.

Male Host: All the time, of course, because no one wanted to be the first to admit they had a problem.

Female Host: Exactly. But mullally, he kept encouraging honesty.

Male Host: Good for him.

Female Host: He kept saying, it's okay to have a red. We just need to know about it so we can fix it.

Male Host: I love that.

Female Host: And eventually, the reds started to appear.

Male Host: They did.

Female Host: And you know what? The company started performing better because they were finally addressing their problems head on.

Male Host: It's amazing how such a simple change, just adding some color coding, can have such a profound impact on a company's culture.

Female Host: It's true.

Male Host: It's all about making it safe to be honest even when things aren't perfect.

Female Host: Exactly. And that honesty is what allows for real growth and progress.

Male Host: Totally.

Female Host: Now, we've talked a lot about acknowledging and embracing mistakes, but how do we actually go about learning from them?

Male Host: That's the million dollar question, isn't it?

Female Host: Yeah.

Male Host: It's not enough to just say, oops, my bad, and move on.

Female Host: Right. Grabon talks about the importance of digging deeper, okay. Of understanding the root causes of our mistakes and then implementing solutions to prevent those mistakes from happening again.

Male Host: So it's not just about saying sorry, it's about making a change.

Female Host: Exactly.

Male Host: I like that.

Female Host: He calls it cherishing your mistakes. Not in a celebrate failure kind of way, but in a way that extracts valuable lessons from those experiences.

Male Host: I like that a lot.

Female Host: Yeah.

Male Host: So how do we actually do that? How do we cherish our mistakes without dwelling on them or beating ourselves up?

Female Host: It starts with shifting our perspective from blame to curiosity. Instead of asking who's at fault here, we ask, what happened? Why did it happen, and what can we learn from this?

Male Host: It's about approaching mistakes with a detectives mindset, looking for clues that could help us prevent similar situations in the future.

Female Host: Exactly. And it's about creating a culture where people feel comfortable sharing their mistakes, knowing that they won't be punished for it.

Male Host: Right. Like no one's going to get in trouble for raising their hand and saying, hey, this happened.

Female Host: Exactly.

Male Host: Because let's face it, sometimes the most valuable lessons come from our biggest blunders.

Female Host: Absolutely. Think about those light bulb moments you have when you finally figure out a solution to a problem that's been bugging you.

Male Host: Right.

Female Host: Often those breakthroughs come after a series of missteps and dead ends.

Male Host: It's like Thomas Edison famously said, I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.

Female Host: Exactly. Each of those failures brought him one step closer to inventing the light bulb.

Male Host: Wow.

Female Host: So instead of fearing mistakes, lets embrace them as opportunities for learning and growth.

Male Host: I love that. And remember, its not about striving for perfection. Thats an impossible standard.

Female Host: Its about making progress. Yeah, one mistake at a time.

Male Host: I like it.

Female Host: And who knows? Maybe your next mistake will be your favorite one.

Male Host: I love that idea. Your next mistake might be your favorite one. It really highlights how much we can learn when we let go of that fear of failure. But how do we actually build that kind of mistake friendly environment, especially in a workplace?

Female Host: Grabon uses this great analogy of tending a garden. You need the right soil, the right nutrients, and consistent care to help things flourish.

Male Host: Right.

Female Host: A mistake friendly workplace is similar.

Male Host: So how do we cultivate that environment? Where do we even begin?

Female Host: It starts with leadership. Leaders have to walk the talk, okay? They need to be the first ones to admit when theyve messed up, to ask for help, and to celebrate those aha. Moments that come from learning from mistakes.

Male Host: Its about showing that its okay to be human, to not have all the answers.

Female Host: Exactly. And its not just about being nice. Its about being smart. When people feel safe and supported, theyre more likely to bring their best ideas to the table, to speak up about potential problems before they become major issues, and to be more innovative.

Male Host: Its about unlocking the collective intelligence of the team. Right. Because everyone has something to contribute.

Female Host: Absolutely. And that leads to better results for everyone involved. Now, that doesnt mean we just let mistakes happen willy nilly, right?

Male Host: Of course not.

Female Host: Greybond talks about the importance of mistake proofing.

Male Host: Mistake proofing sounds interesting. Tell me more.

Female Host: Its about designing systems and processes that minimize the chances of errors in the first place. Oh, think about those pre flight checklists pilots use or the safety protocols in operating rooms.

Male Host: So its about anticipating those potential problems and putting safeguards in place.

Female Host: Precisely. But even with the best systems in place, mistakes will still happen. And when they do, its about how we respond. Thats where kindness and curiosity come in.

Male Host: So instead of pointing fingers and playing.

Female Host: The blame game, we ask questions, why did this happen? What can we learn from this? How can we prevent it from happening again?

Male Host: Its about turning those oops. Moments into opportunities for growth.

Female Host: Exactly. And remember, it's not about being perfect. It's about being better.

Male Host: I like that.

Female Host: Every mistake, big or small, is a chance to learn, to grow, and to improve.

Male Host: So as we wrap up this deep dive into the mistakes that make us, what's the key takeaway you want our listeners to walk away with?

Female Host: I think it boils down to this. Mistakes are inevitable. They're part of the human experience. What truly matters is how we respond to them. Do we let them define us? Hold us back? Or do we use them as stepping stones to something greater?

Male Host: Its about shifting our mindset from fear to curiosity, from blame to learning. From the pursuit of perfection to the journey of progress.

Female Host: Exactly. So embrace your mistakes, learn from them, and dont be afraid to fail. Forward.

Male Host: Because in the grand scheme of things, its not about avoiding mistakes altogether, it's about making them count. And who knows, your next mistake might just be your favorite one. Thanks for joining us on the deep dive. We'll catch you next time.