What You Need to Know About Remote Jobs

Many people are still laser focused on remote jobs. Yet, they're becoming increasingly scarce. Some companies are taking a unique approach to their work arrangements, including Dropbox . On the latest episode of Get Hired with Andrew Seaman, Dropbox’s Chief People Officer Melanie Rosenwasser discusses the world of remote work. Melanie shares insights with LinkedIn Editor Andrew Seaman into the skills needed to succeed in remote roles? and how to grow your career and find mentors even in a remote work environment.

A transcript of the episode can be found below. You can listen to the conversation on your favorite podcast platform by clicking here.

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TRANSCRIPT: What You Need to Know About Remote Jobs

Andrew Seaman: No matter how CEOs feel about remote work, it's clear that job candidates are eager to work from home. So as more and more companies return to the office, the competition for remote roles is fierce. In fact, data from LinkedIn show that there are twice as many job seekers looking for remote or hybrid roles than there are open positions. While only 8% of jobs posted on LinkedIn are remote, these positions draw about 40% of all applications.?

So, if you are on the hunt for a remote role, how do you stand out? Today, we're discussing the top skills that remote workers need and how you can showcase them in an interview. Stick around to hear more.?

From LinkedIn News, this is Get Hired, a podcast for the ups and downs and the ever-changing landscape of our professional lives. I'm Andrew Seaman, LinkedIn's editor-at-large for jobs and career development, bringing you conversations with experts who like me, want to see you succeed at work, at home, and everywhere in between.

Today, I'm joined by Dropbox's Chief People Officer Melanie Rosenwasser. Melanie began this role in 2019 and in the wake of the pandemic, she became a key architect of Dropbox's shift to Virtual First. This model aims to blend the best of remote work with intentional in-person collaboration. Today, Melanie outlines the most important skills that you need to thrive in a remote work environment and gives tips on how you can demonstrate them to a potential employer.?

Working remotely does have its challenges though, especially when it comes to career development. Melanie is passionate about fostering career growth even in online environments. So we also discussed the importance of mentorship and how to find mentors throughout your career. But first to kick things off, I asked Melanie about her journey to becoming a chief people officer.

Melanie Rosenwasser: So I actually have an undergraduate degree in finance, and so my first job out of college was at a finance rotational development program at Gillette, the razor blade manufacturer in Boston. I learned pretty quickly after staring at Excel for a few weeks and it was not the right role for me, but as part of this development program, I was able to attend a number of Boston universities and colleges to help recruit for new participants in the program. And I just could not believe that people got paid to go to campuses and talk to students and try to get them to join your company.?

And so I became really energized by this notion of recruiting and HR and I hadn't really thought about it before. And then eventually I became interested in the HR business partner space. So I took a role at GE supporting one of their hardware and software businesses. And that's where I really discovered that I loved the technology sector, largely because there's so much opportunity for coaching and engagement and other things. And so I thought if I've loved technology, then I should really think about maybe going out to the Bay Area where there's such a large concentration of tech companies. There I took a role at Apple, which was an incredible experience.?

And then through my network I met Dropbox's first head of people. Her name was Arden Hoffman, and she was building out the HR team from the ground up and recruited me to lead their HR business partner team, which was a huge opportunity for me. I had never managed anyone before and it was just this incredible gift to be able to grow and lead a team and the rest is history.?

And so I've been a Dropbox for almost 10 years now. My method has sort of been as my colleagues move on to bigger and better things, I would sort of adopt their teams and then I would hire a new leader for that team. So I was really well positioned when my predecessor moved on to take on the chief people officer role.

Andrew: Oh, that's fantastic. And also, I am so interested that your degree is actually in finance because I talked to so many people and especially young people getting out of college who once they're graduating they think, oh, I have an elementary education degree and I have to go into elementary education. And I'm like, that's not the case actually. So I really like that.

Melanie: It's so interesting you say that because I often worried, especially early on that I wasted a lot of time in this other field or this other industry, but actually it was that analytical capability that I was able to hone in those years that truly differentiated me as an HR practitioner and honestly still does. So it sort of underscores this notion that there are no wrong turns in your career journey, and in fact some of the differences and kind of unique capabilities that you have serve you and help you stand out in the profession that you end up choosing.

Andrew: And obviously Dropbox has been around for a while, but I think you took the helm of the talent organization in 2019 right?

Melanie: Yes.

Andrew: And in 2020, obviously something happened. Some people might remember a pandemic, but Dropbox decided that they were going to do something not necessarily remote, but they're going to take a very interesting approach to how you work. And so can you explain that a little bit?

Melanie: Yeah, so Virtual First is Dropbox's operating model essentially where remote work is our primary way of working, but we also prioritize intentional in-person connection at least quarterly. And we've sort of created our own category because we don't fit into the traditional boxes of work. So we're not remote only, we're not in person and we're also not hybrid, but it is a substantial change because Dropbox was 90% in office pre-pandemic. So it required a fundamental shift in how we think about work, but also in our mindsets and behaviors and almost like the psychology of working.?

Every company has its own sort of culture and its own philosophy on how they want to work. And there is no real right answer because there simply is no one size fits all. So for as many people that value or want remote or flexible work, there are an equal number of folks who want to go into the office. And so it really is a aligning the philosophy and way of working that works best for you.

Andrew: And out of curiosity, have you seen a large spike in your applicants? Because the last data I saw on remote and hybrid options is that they're about 8% of the offerings on LinkedIn, but they get 40% of the application. So are you seeing that in your data too?

Melanie: Our applicant volume has never been higher. So, couple stats to share with you today, over 70% of our applicants actually cite Virtual First is the reason for their interest. We now have the highest offer accept rates and the lowest time to hire ever on record. But it also makes it a little bit trickier for our recruiting teams because not all applicants actually have the relevant experience, but they're really attracted to, oh, I can work for this company. Maybe I don't have the exact expertise required, but I'm going to apply anyway. And so there is some of that. That said, we also, because we're kind of recruiting from anywhere, it means we're recruiting from different industries outside of tech. And so we're really looking at more skills and competencies than we are. You've done this exact same job before and you've done it at a tech company. And actually it's been really interesting because we find that our highest performers actually come from diverse backgrounds, diverse industries, diverse roles.

Andrew: Oh, wow. And for people that are job seeking that you interact with who say like, "Hey, I would love a remote job, I'd love a hybrid job," what is your advice to them about the current hiring landscape?

Melanie: So I think there are certain skills that I think are more important in remote or hybrid jobs that you want to be thinking about if that's something that you're interested in. So if I were to boil it down into two things, it would be bias for action, independent problem solving. So this notion of unblocking yourself, because when you work remotely, you can't just walk to the desk next to you and ask a question, you actually need to go out and find the answers yourself. So that is really important.?

And I think the second is really communication. It becomes so much more critical in remote work, especially because so much work is done asynchronously. So written communication is really important and it's not just being an incredible writer, but it's really getting to the point because people don't have a lot of time, so they're not going to read a five-page document.

Don't bury the lead. Be simple and succinct in your communication. It's really hard to do. The amount of times I say, how would you explain this document in three bullets is infinity in this job. And so I think showcasing that, but also in the interview process, I always kind of talk about this sort of difference between outcomes and outputs right? Outputs are like whatever it was that you did, kind of the what, but outcomes are the why. So what value was created based on what you did?

So when you're interviewing, in order to showcase those skills, you really want to talk about outcomes is the first piece. And the second, and let me know if you disagree. I don't know if this is controversial, but I typically really value when candidates show me their sort of growth mindset. So highlighting a key learning that they had from something that went really poorly because the ability to fail and learn is more impressive to me than a track record of 100% success because it's not realistic. But it also potentially shows that you don't take risks. If everything you do is a safe bet and it's successful, then I'm not sure if that's necessarily what we would be looking for. So it's sort of those two things as well.

Andrew: Yes, I underline and check everything that you said, especially the last part because a lot of people on the editorial team at LinkedIn come from traditional media background. And what I try and tell people is that the tech world is different and legacy media, it's called legacy for a reason, which is like I come from a company that had been around since 1865. So the idea is you do one thing and you do it just continuously.

And one of the things I do ask people about is their ability to do something and move on very quickly, because that is the tech ethos of like, "Hey, we're going to do something. If it doesn't work, we're going to stop it, and then we're going to move on to whatever's an next." And for people who aren't used to that, it can be jarring and it can make them feel sort of conflicted internally. So knowing about a failure or something that didn't go great, but how they picked up and moved on is really important to say, oh, you can excel in a fast-paced place without letting your failures or your meh stuff not define you. So I think that's great.

Melanie: Yeah, it's sort of this thing of fail fast is a thing that we often to talk about in tech. And I think about when we're first rolling out a new product or a feature at Dropbox, and we have Slack channels dedicated to feedback and bugs, and it will be just littered with tons of things that aren't working properly at first, which is normal. And product managers love it. They love all the critiques, they love all of the areas that aren't working, all of the points of friction because they know when they solve them, they're going to have an amazing feature, an amazing product.

So in that same vein, if we kind of all adopt that kind of thing, it's not criticism. If you embrace it in the right way, it's actually going to make you better, it's going to make the product that you're creating better. But it is a bit of a pivot, and I think it might feel unnatural to highlight those areas of friction or failures in the interview process. But to me, I always test for this because I want to know that you can fail and learn and that you can do it quickly.

Andrew: We'll be right back with Melanie Rosenwasser.

Andrew: And we're back with Dropbox's Chief People Officer, Melanie Rosenwasser. I wanted to also talk about mentorship because I know you have a really interesting program, your CPO in residence right?

Melanie: Yes.

Andrew: So can you tell us a little bit about this program?

Melanie: Yes, definitely. So I started this program a couple of years ago after observing that several of the folks on my leadership team were sort of off-boarding into chief people officer roles externally themselves. And I thought, "This is so amazing. So why not formalize this in some way?" The program is unique in that the off-boarding can either be into an exec role on my team, but more likely will result in the off-boarding again, externally. And I understand that this maybe flies in the face of what many HR practitioners and leaders are taught, which is to hold on as tight as possible to our high performers. But the reality is that most people aren't staying at the same company for 30 years and in tech, it's more like three years at most. Our goal shouldn't necessarily be to prepare the people on our teams for just the next project or the next role in a long line of jobs at the same company. It's really to enable lifelong learning, to enable careers.

Andrew: I think especially maybe in tech, I've seen it more, but it's really great when you're at a company, and I think it's part of the attraction really for quality candidates to say, oh, this company was started by someone who came from Dropbox, or this company is led by two people who came from Dropbox. Because I know even internally here at LinkedIn when we're looking at products that maybe video editing software or a new AI tool, you'll sort of dig into the founders or the people on the executive team and you'll say, "Oh, they were at LinkedIn," and it's like this vote of confidence like, "Oh, this is a really cool place to be." So obviously it's helping people along their career journey, but also it's showing people, "Hey, really great people come through this organization and we're going to support you all the way."

Melanie: 100%. I couldn't agree more. And it does so much for just your talent brand. So if even people think about Dropbox as a place where they grow great leaders or they grow the next generation of CEOs or the next generation of CHROs, that is such a boon for our actual brand to your point. But I'll also say just on the topic of mentorship, if you take a step back and you think about what's kind of the point, we're always told kind of the same things. It's like have a board of directors or you don't just need mentors, you need sponsors or use your LinkedIn network to find mentors, but let it be natural. And so all that stuff is helpful, but I think when I think about mentorship and I zoom way out, I think about it as number one, try not to be too formal about it and expand your definition of mentorship because it can become this rigid concept where people are like, do you have a mentor?

And I think the spirit really is about learning from the wisdom of others at the end of the day. But wisdom doesn't necessarily mean older, more experienced, expert in your specific domain of interest. So in essence, anyone can be a mentor if they have something to share that will help others learn. And I've personally, I'm not sure I've ever formally called somebody a mentor, but looking back and during it, I recognize that the people who were mentoring me had a profound impact on how I view my career and my life and what interests me.

I think the other thing is mentors can be or should be tailored. So you can seek different advisors for different stages in your career or even different challenges you're facing. So for example, I think my first mentor was the owner of a gym I worked for in college, so he taught me a lot about just entrepreneurship and politics and the importance of weight-bearing exercise and sort of the art of prioritization. So what's your first most important job kind of thing? And I remember having a conversation with him once saying, "I have this paper due, but I really want to get in my gym time." And he's like, "Your number one job is to be a student, write the paper."

But the mentor I have now teaches me about how to manage tough conversations in the boardroom or how to think about partnership with my spouse upon having children. So different phases of life, different journeys, different advisors, because again, it has to do with what phase you are in your life or what problem you're trying to solve.

Andrew: I guess then for people who are job seeking, and obviously people who listen to this are all ages, so not just young people entering the workforce, but do you think that they should look for mentorship programs at potential employers, or do you think there's a cultural stream that they should look for where it's like they encourage learning? Because I think sometimes that's difficult because a lot of companies, they put out very polished PR things about, we love to encourage continued growth and stuff like that, but what should job seekers be looking for in potential employers when it comes to upskilling and growth?

Melanie: That's a great question. I think it should be a blend of both. So how is continuous learning embedded in the culture, like what's not written down, but it's just part of the ethos around continuous learning that I should know about as a candidate? And what formal programs do you have that help facilitate this? Because ideally it's going to be a blend of both right?

Andrew: Yeah.

Melanie: I think asking that particularly of someone who will be a future manager is so critically important because your manager plays such an important role in your learning and growth, so asking them questions on how they think about learning and growth for their own team, how do they think about mentorship of the folks that work for them, how do they think about ensuring that the folks that work for them are getting exposure to areas even outside of their direct roles? And I think through asking these questions, you'll get a pretty good sense of how the manager views it, but oftentimes when you're in interviews, they're going to be talking to other people that work for that same manager. So asking them the same question, how does this company facilitate learning and growth? How often do you have conversations about your career aspirations? All of those things. You can fit the puzzle together pretty nicely if you're asking similar questions to a number of different interviewers.

Andrew: And I also think that if you get sort of encouraging answers or you just see people light up when they say, "Oh, yeah, actually I took part in this program and we also have courses available. I haven't really done that, but my manager has been really encouraging to me to seek out sponsors or mentors or something like that." As long as it's not sort of the standard, not PR answer, but the baked in answer, I think it also gives you sort of hope that, oh, there's something really good about this culture too.

Melanie: Yes. When the answers come across as genuine, then you can sort of assume that it's probably true. But if it's something that the person has never thought about before or has never been asked, that's probably a signal that it's not a priority in that organization. Right?

Andrew: Yeah.

Melanie: The other thing that I often think about as it pertains to learning and growth is how often you see or hear of people in your organization that don't have a background in that particular thing. Because what that means is you are facilitating growth across different teams. And so I think it's also asking questions about that like how do you think about non-traditional profiles? Do you have anyone on your team that's transferred in from a different team? Those types of things. So these sort of more like non-traditional ways of pressure testing whether an organization really values growth.

Andrew: Before we go, is there anything else that you want to add? I so enjoyed this conversation.

Melanie: I did too. Thank you so, so much. If there's any kind of parting wisdom though around the topic of learning and growth, it's really like everyone can be your teacher in some way, and there's so much kind of knowledge and wisdom out there. So just always be curious right? Because you never know who your next mentor or advisor will be. And so yeah, just widen the lens right on that.

Andrew: Wonderful. Well, thank you so much for your time.

Melanie: Thank you so, so much.

Andrew: That was Melanie Rosenwasser, Chief People Officer at Dropbox. Before you go, we want to hear from you. Get Hired launched an audience survey to help us understand what you want to hear on this show. You can find a link to the short survey in the show notes for this episode. I'd love it if you could fill it out. Get Hired is a production of LinkedIn News. The show is produced by Grace Rubin and Emily Reeves. Assaf Gidron engineered our show. Tim Boland mixed our show. We get additional support from Alexandra Kuznetsova and Ali McPherson. Sarah Storm is our senior producer. Enrique Montalvo is our executive producer. Dave Pond is head of production and creative operations. Maya Pope-Chappell is Director of Content and Audience Development. Courtney Coupe is head of original programming. Dan Roth is the Editor-in-Chief of LinkedIn. And I'm Andrew Seaman. Until next time, stay well and best of luck.