WFM #8: PwC's Michele Sagan on the Future of Work, Reskilling and Women's Careers

"Women's Future Month (WFM)" - Conversations on Tomorrow's Work

During Women's History Month in March, I started conversations on the #FutureofWork through a series of interviews - with both woman and men. Discussions on the meta themes shaping the future workplace.

"But Women's History Month was in March, it's now almost June?!" That's true. But these conversations apply all year round, not just in March. So, we're going to space these out and publish over the next few months. ??

Previous Interviews:

Interview 1: Ruma Balasubramanian , MD at Google Cloud , shares insights on #GenerativeAI, the #FutureSkills that will pave the Future of Work, and invaluable career advice. Catch up on Ruma's insights here .

Interview 2: PingPing Han , founder of the startup Aloha , discusses woman-led #startups, #sustainability, the #GreenEconomy, and the future of #GreenJobs and careers. Click here for PingPing's guidance.

Interview 3: Jessica Yu , from Dow Jones , offered her unique perspectives as a millennial on Hiring/Retaining #AsianWomen, Work/Life Harmony and the #IntergenerationalWorkplace. Click here for Jessica's interview.

Interview 4: Sital's 85-year-old mother. My tech savvy mum talks about her experimentation with #ChatGPT and potential Job Disruption resulting from #GenAI. Plus, some practical advice on #MentalHealth. Click here for hear mum's views.

Interview 5: Robyn Dittrich GAICD from BHP - the world's biggest mining company. Robyn talks about the #GreenEconomy, Careers in #Sustainability and Woman's Leadership in Male-dominated industries like Mining, Oil & Gas, Manufacturing and Technology. Catch up here on Robyn's insights.

Interview 6: Vivek Puthucode from Microsoft talks about Allyship, Artificial Intelligence and the future of jobs in Education and Healthcare sectors. Along with the career advice that he's sharing with his daughters before they enter an AI enable workplace Click here for Vivek's views.

Interview 7: Edwin Seah , from the DEI Consulting firm, INCLUDE discusses DEI strategy, Inclusion, Male Allyship and the impact of AI. Click here for Edwin's perspectives.

Today's guest is Michele Sagan , Director of Workforce Transformation at 普华永道

Michele Sagan has 25 years of leadership, management, and finance experience in the UK and Malaysia, working with notable organizations like 瑞银投资银行 , 汇丰 , CIMB , Asia School of Business , and the Iclif Leadership and Governance Centre.

Michele is currently the Director of Workforce Transformation for PwC South-East Asia Consulting and was formerly the Director of Future of Work at Asia School of Business.

Michele is a certified leadership development and human capital strategist, psychotherapist, and executive coach, having coached senior management teams from MNCs, GLCs, and SMEs. She holds a BSc and MSc from the London School of Economics and is currently pursuing a PhD in the Future of Work at the University of Nottingham Malaysia.

Michele has authored over 10 books, with her latest, "Future Shaping," set for release in 2024. She has been recognized for her contributions by the Malaysian Book of Records, won the London Book Fair's "The Write Stuff" competition, and received the Movers and Shakers Award by the Asia HRD Congress in 2023.

SITAL: Thanks for making time, Michele.

To start off, can you share some of the key influences from your childhood and early career that have shaped your career choices and current interests?

MICHELE: Thanks, Sital, for including me in these conversations.

Key influences - my mother was a strong influence as she grew up dreaming of becoming a lawyer, but it was not to be as her father believed a woman's place was in the kitchen. So, when my mum received a scholarship to do her degree, she had to turn it down and pursued secretarial studies instead.

Still, my mum found a way to do more. She was actively involved in politics, was President of Lions club international and Toastmasters international, part of the Sarawak youth Council, Bakti and PIGB to name just a few. For her active roles in politics and social work, she was awarded the Ahli Bintang Sarawak and the Pegawai Bintang Sarawak by the Sarawak government. On top of that, she raised all three of her daughters well, always being there for us during our times of need. Not just a mother but a best friend, providing us with love, faith and prayer. Most of all, she taught us to believe in ourselves and to always aim higher and to believe we can do anything we set out mind towards.

Being an investment banker in London also taught me plenty about DEI as I was one of the few Asian women then as well. The long hours at work there too made me examine the importance of wellbeing and work-life balance. Hence, all this had an influence in wanting to support women in developing themselves and finding a voice, especially for issues that were important to the gender.

SITAL: Your mum sounds amazing. What a great role model for you and your sisters.

The term "Future of Work" seems to be used widely now to cover all manner of topics. As an educator, academic scholar, and consultant in this space, could you clarify the meta themes which sum up the Future of Work?

MICHELE: The future of work is indeed marked by uncertainty and ambiguity, but through foresight and strategic planning, we can predict trends and future-proof ourselves.

My research is based on insights from 40 CEOs of leading companies in Malaysia and we have gathered 6 meta themes from their responses and a thorough analysis of literature reviews in this field.

So organizations must be prepared for: the fourth industrial revolution (#4IR), #RemoteWork and #HybridWork, #GigWork, diversity, equity, and inclusion (#DEI), #Wellbeing, and #ESG (environmental, social, and governance) initiatives. As of now everyone is talking about the digital economy #AI, #Automation and all of them fall under the meta theme of 4IR.

We have already seen it change business models during the pandemic by making them more efficient and allowing hybrid work models, but technology will continue to reshape industries by automating manual tasks and using AI to ease access to information. While some fear job loss, our findings emphasize the importance of re-skilling and leveraging technology to create higher value in the workplace instead of viewing it as disruptive.

Remote work and flexible arrangements have become integral, driven not only by the pandemic but also by the increasing demand for work-life balance and autonomy. Similarly, the rise of the gig economy and freelance work reflects a shift towards flexible work modes and autonomy. These trends need to be integrated so organisations can provide opportunities to vulnerable and diverse groups such as working mothers and minorities.

Prioritizing employee well-being and work-life balance has become key for organizations, particularly in specialized industries facing talent scarcity. Although there is still some resistance, many recognize that it is essential for maintaining productivity and retaining talent in an increasingly competitive environment, especially for organizations in specialized industries.

Additionally, there's a growing emphasis on diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) to foster innovative and inclusive workplaces, essential for navigating the challenges of the future of work effectively. Furthermore, increased regulations and activism have propelled ESG initiatives to the forefront, with sustainability and the green economy gaining prominence. Integrating ESG practices into business operations is not only a requirement but also a strategic imperative as consumers become increasingly vigilant and conscious.

SITAL: With this dynamic, changing workplace - what are your hopes and fears regarding the future workplace, especially concerning the impact on jobs?

Specifically, how do you see women's jobs being affected by technologies like AI, automation, and robotics?

MICHELE: Looking ahead, our research that is based on data from several studies, indicates that women could see a 20% increase in job gains compared to present levels, with growth expected in sectors traditionally associated with women, such as business services, health, education, and social services.

Women also scored 13% higher than men in purpose, positioning them to be successful in purpose-driven organizations, where empathy gains them loyalty and provides a deeper compassion for people. Moreover, there will be increased opportunities for women entrepreneurship as women-owned businesses have seen substantial growth of 114%, emphasizing the potential for women to thrive in purpose-driven sectors.

As such, 40 - 160 million women globally may transition between occupations.

Although, 1 in 3 women have reported they are confident that their skills will be relevant in 5 years, women's digital skills are significantly lower than the global average, particularly among those working onsite.

This means they miss out on the opportunities from the transforming digital landscape where there will be significant job growth. Furthermore, there are only 35% of Science Technology, Maths (STEM) students who are women and 48% of female STEM workers have experienced discrimination in the hiring process.

Therefore, it is clear that women require targeted support and access to training programs and policies to enable these opportunities. Currently, women already face challenges such as obstacles in entering and advancing in the workforce, gender disparities in technological skill divide, increased burnout, imposter syndrome, gender biases, and the desire for greater integration of personal identities in the workplace. So unless these challenges are addressed there will be barriers for most women to access and gain success through these future opportunities.

SITAL: Those are some startling data points. Could you share some of the potential upsides for women's careers and professional development in the future of work?

MICHELE: As I have mentioned before flexibility and autonomy is a trend of the future.

Research among 5,000 women and 200 CEOs found that most companies are now promising some degree of flexible work. Furthermore, women are more likely than men to engage in platform work due to part-time or flexible schedules driven by family, education, or health reasons, demonstrating potential for levelling the playing field.

Even today gender disparities are prevalent as women also go through increased burnout, imposter syndrome, gender biases, and a wage gap.

Studies have shown there is only 27% of women holding managerial positions, and gender wage disparities persist, with only 54% feeling fairly compensated. Furthermore 72% are experiencing burnout and studies have shown that 30% of women feel overworked compared to 24% of men which may be attributed to the fact that the burden of parenting falls disproportionately on women, making it difficult to balance work and home responsibilities, especially without adequate support.

Despite these challenges, the majority of women (69.8%) express a preference for paid employment over staying at home and 94% of women feel they can be productive anywhere if they are trusted to manage their own time. We have also found through our research that 75% of female executives experience imposter syndrome, 76% of women viewed as aggressive in comparison to 24% of men and 91% mid-career women desire to integrate more of themselves currently been hidden or ignored.

So the future of work trends seems to be in the favour of women helping them gain the flexibility and opportunities. In terms of wellbeing, organisations have a long way to go to help women feel included and close the wage gap however the focus on DEIB and wellbeing for women from our research shows that organisation are recognising that they are losing valuable talent and as such they are trying to become more inclusive by improving their policies.

SITAL: Let's talk reskilling: which skills are crucial for professionals to succeed in the future workplace? How should organizations and individuals approach integrating these skills to prepare for the forthcoming challenges and opportunities?

MICHELE: Reskilling to bridge the gap of digital skills, as well as introducing newer concepts such to gain awareness on ESG, DEI and wellbeing is crucial.

However, these learning and development programs should be viewed as processes rather than a single directive and be more multifaceted to cater to individual learning levels. This means organisations should try to measure where individuals currently are and build strong foundations on basics and understanding so that individuals and women can integrate this new knowledge to innovate.

SITAL: Michele, as we look ahead to the future, what are your aspirations for women's careers in the context of rapid technological advancements and the evolving workplace? What key piece of advice or insight would you offer to women to prepare them for this future?

MICHELE: Research has shown that women in leadership achieve diversity targets sooner, provide higher sales growth, and improve earnings-per-share.

Additionally, women leaders are perceived to be fairer and more trustworthy and co-elevate other women to co-create equal opportunities for all.

My vision for women is to grow out of their zone of fear and embrace their purpose. As women there are more challenges for us in our careers but instead of trying to be perfect and hiding away I believe we should reinforce self-belief and grow our emotional maturity to achieve our potential.

Remember, as my mother taught me and my sisters: believe in yourself, aim higher, and know that you can achieve anything you set your mind to.

SITAL: That's such sound advice.

Michele, thank you so much for sharing your insights on the future workplace and for your invaluable advice. It's been a pleasure talking with you, and I'm sure readers will greatly benefit from your wisdom.

To stay updated with Michele's views, connect with her on LinkedIn at this link .

Previous Interviews:

Interview 1: Ruma Balasubramanian , MD at Google Cloud , shares insights on #GenerativeAI, the skills that will pave the future, and invaluable career advice. Catch up on Ruma's insights here .

Interview 2: PingPing Han , founder of the startup Aloha , discusses woman-led #startups, #sustainability, the green economy, and the future of #greenjobs and careers. Click here for PingPing's interview.

Interview 3: Jessica Yu , from Dow Jones , offered her unique perspectives as a millennial on Hiring/Retaining Asian Women, Work/Life Harmony and the Intergenerational Workplace. Click here to read.

Interview 4: Sital's 85-year-old mother - My mum talks about her experimentation with #ChatGPT and potential #JobDisruption resulting from #GenAI. Plus, some practical advice on #MentalHealth. Click here for hear mum's views.

Interview 5: Robyn Dittrich GAICD from BHP talks about the #GreenEconomy, Careers in #Sustainability and Woman's Leadership in Male-dominated industries like Mining, Oil & Gas, Manufacturing and Technology. Catch up here on Robyn's insights.

Interview 6: Vivek Puthucode from Microsoft talks about Allyship, Artificial Intelligence and the future of jobs in Education and Healthcare sectors. Click here for Vivek's views.

Interview 7: Edwin Seah , from the DEI Consulting firm, INCLUDE discusses DEI strategy, Inclusion, Male Allyship and the impact of AI. Click here for Edwin's perspectives.