Unlocking Loan and Deposit Growth Through Data | Ep. 435 with Brian Bauer

Originally posted here.

Financial brand marketing and sales leaders face the challenge of consistently making new connections that lead to loan and deposit growth. They often struggle to leverage data and customer insights effectively to deepen relationships, which is crucial for fostering new connections and driving business outcomes.

Brian Bauer, CEO of Revio Insight, a customer growth platform that transforms complex bank data into actionable growth opportunities for community and regional banks, joins the show to discuss how financial brands can turn data into actionable growth opportunities. This episode? highlights the importance of not waiting for perfection to start engaging customers, leveraging both digital and relational engagement channels effectively, and ensuring that product offerings align with customer needs. The big takeaway? Human experience and building authentic relationships can inevitably lead to more business and profitable relationships.

Join us as we discuss:

• Turning Data into Deposits and Revenue (04:28)
• Account-Based Marketing Explained (15:05)
• Building Transformational Relationships (22:48)

The key moments in this episode are:

00:00 Join our digital growth community; learn together.

04:40 Increasing competition and data investment in banking.

08:03 Analyze customer data to create engaging, profitable relationships.

10:30 Banks must personalize digital engagement with customers.

13:30 AI emphasizes human experience in financial services.

17:26 Focus on personalized, account-based marketing for customers.

20:38 Level Up Business: Deeper conversations, commitment, growth.

23:36 Focus on relationships, not transactions, for success.

28:35 Confidence in product offering is crucial for bankers.

31:36 Investing in relationships leads to business success.

34:35 Unlock connections through expertise, differentiate from sameness.

36:32 Brand reflects beliefs, not just logos, for banks.

The expanded summary of this episode:

The Power of Human Connection and Personalization ??

In a digital age, meaningful human interactions stand out. Take, for example, a mortgage lender who writes regular handwritten notes to clients. This personal touch keeps them top of mind and helps foster lasting relationships. Such gestures remind us that even the smallest efforts can create significant impact.

Building Confidence in Your Offerings ??

Confidence in your product is crucial. If you find you're struggling to sell a service confidently, it might be time to reassess and realign it with your customers' needs. Sometimes, the key to boosting confidence lies in fine-tuning your offerings until they truly meet market demands.

Long-term Relationship Building = Deposits in a Trust Fund ??

Relationships aren't built overnight. They require consistent effort and genuine care. Think of them as deposits into a trust fund, growing steadily with every positive interaction. Consistency and dedication will eventually yield long-term loyalty and profitability.

Leveraging Knowledge and Expertise ??

Your unique insights and experiences can set your brand apart. Share valuable information to build trust and establish your financial brand as a thought leader in the industry. This not only builds customer loyalty but also propels your growth faster than you might expect.

The Human Experience in the Age of AI ????

As AI continues to evolve, the value of human interactions becomes more pronounced. Community financial brands should focus on balancing technology with genuine human relationships to maintain relevance and deepen customer connections.

Account-Based Marketing (ABM) Strategy ??

ABM involves personalized outreach using customer data to craft specific, relevant messages. It's a pathway to understanding and leveraging customer relationships more effectively than generic marketing methods can offer.

Overcoming Challenges and Embracing Solutions ??

Community banks face increasing competition from major banks and fintech brands. By actively engaging customers and leveraging data insights, you can create significant growth opportunities. Remember, relevance in communication is key to preventing customer disengagement.

James Robert Lay [00:00:00]:

As a financial brand, marketing or sales leader, how are you consistently making new connections that lead to loan and deposit growth? More specifically, where are there opportunities right now for you to use data? More specifically, customer insights, so that you can consistently deepen relationships that lead to new connections which lead to conversations and ultimately results in loan and deposit growth? Well, let's find out together on today's episode of the Banking on digital Growth podcast.

Brian Bauer [00:00:31]:

You're listening to the banking on digital growth podcast.

James Robert Lay [00:00:42]:

Welcome back to the banking on Digital Growth podcast. I'm James Robert Ley, founder and CEO of the Digital Growth Institute, where we help financial brands uncover their biggest marketing sales blind spots so that they quickly stop losing loans and deposits. Before we get into today's episode, I want to invite you to join the digital growth community. Maybe you have been watching or listening to the podcast for a while, but did you know that more than 350 other growth minded financial brand leaders have joined the digital growth community to connect, to learn and to grow together? You too can join them right now when you text Community to 415-579-3002 that is community. Text CommunitY to 415-579-3002 now, joining me for today's conversation, which is part of the exponential Insight series, is Brian Bauer. Brian is the chief executive officer of Revio, where they transform financial data into actionable growth opportunities to inform growth strategies so that community financial brands can increase their revenue and deposits. Welcome to the show, Brian. It is so good to hang out with you today, buddy.

Brian Bauer [00:01:52]:

You too, James Robert, thanks for having me.

James Robert Lay [00:01:54]:

Before we get into talking about deposit growth, revenue growth, using data to really help inform that growth, what is good in your world right now, personally, professionally, does your pick to get started on a positive note?

Brian Bauer [00:02:10]:

Oh, man. What's good in my world? Everything. I mean, it was a great summer. The kids just went back to school, so we're excited about that for sure. Uh, you know, and we're getting ready to head into the late q three kind of travel, uh, you know, work, travel, as well as a little bit of vacation that we're going to sprinkle in there. So I've got no complaints. Everything's great. How about you?

James Robert Lay [00:02:31]:

I'm right there. What's going? Well, um, I'm right there with you. So the four kids, they started back in school, except this year, it's a whole new growth opportunity for the family because my oldest is a freshman. We'll have a, we have a 7th grader in junior high, a fifth grader in middle school, and then a third grader in elementary. So we are in four different schools with four very diverse schedules, very active, very involved kids. And then I'm right there with you. I think I have seven trips in eight weeks between September and October. So, yeah, the shout out to my wife, who's gonna be the one who's, you know, managing all the craziness on the home front while I'm out on the road.

Brian Bauer [00:03:15]:

Yeah, shout out to mine as well for the, for the same. So, you know, busy, busy life here with, with juggling the kids. But my, my spread on the age group is not quite as large as yours, but my oldest just entered her senior year.

James Robert Lay [00:03:29]:

Okay.

Brian Bauer [00:03:30]:

So that is a, that's an interesting milestone as well.

James Robert Lay [00:03:33]:

That is, it's a whole new season, which, it's crazy that we're going to be right there in four years from now. And then we'll keep repeating that process, I think every two years, if everything goes as planned and the kids keep moving forward, progressing through school as they are just excelling and doing such a great job. Let's talk deposit growth, revenue growth, particularly informed and inspired by data. I know that's something that you're going to be talking about at the upcoming ABA bank marketing conference in October. October 8 at 10:30 a.m. where's the conference this year since we're talking about being on the road?

Brian Bauer [00:04:09]:

Yeah, it's at the, it's at the Hyatt in Chicago.

James Robert Lay [00:04:12]:

Yeah. So if you're going to be going, please connect with Brian and tell them that you heard him first on the banking on digital growth podcast. Because that's why we're doing, what we're doing is to, is to connect good people who can do even greater things together. So when it comes to turning data into deposits and revenue and growth, where do you see the big opportunity today for financial brands? Not just in the present, but also looking ahead towards the future.

Brian Bauer [00:04:40]:

Trey, thats a great question. And its one that its constantly changing. Were in a market that in the last 24 months, I think weve seen a lot of competition heat up that maybe wasnt there before. I think if you go back five, six years and you start looking at things like customer insights, I don't think it's as interesting to banks because we've not had number one, the largest banks in the country are now investing heavily in data analytics and their AI strategy. And then you've got the emergence of all these fintech brands that are out there that are really just coming out the market from a lot of different angles. The end result is ultimately the rise in customer acquisition costs, which I'm sure is a topic that you focus on quite a bit with your brand work that you're doing. And where we see the opportunity is with that rise of customer acquisition costs that you have as banks have a lot of money on the table with their existing clients, so that if you go get 100 new customers, they're going to be just as profitable as the 100 before, and you can really start to use customer insights. And when I say insights, I'm not talking about personality profiles.

Brian Bauer [00:05:54]:

I mean insights that we derive from the core data, from the data that banks have in their possession, that first party data to really understand where do we have these single service customers? Where do we have things like non primary checking relationships? Where have we issued a loan to a commercial business? And maybe we opened up the DDA account whenever we issued that loan, but we never really concentrated on capturing the deposit. So there's a lot of places where banks can look within their own universe, within their own customer base to try to start to understand where those individual customer growth opportunities are as well as what kind of product offering should we have. Where do we have a mismatch here? Where do we have opportunity to maybe think about something new to approach these customers with, whether it's a new credit card solution or a new type of loan or even a new type of deposit account to attract the right type of customers that we're really looking to attract.

James Robert Lay [00:06:50]:

Is it fair to say that the data you're looking at, this first party data, is what we would frame as thick and not thick, big data. So it's informing what people are doing, their behavior, their actions. Is that a fair assessment here?

Brian Bauer [00:07:11]:

Oh, yeah. We really look at it, and there's a few layers of data when it comes to banking. I think it's such a nebulous term, somebody data. And it's like, what does that mean? And we really look at it as customer insights. So it's not business intelligence. Business intelligence is kind of strategic level. Where are my flows? What are my deposits doing? What am I paying for those deposits? And then there's also peer data that you can get out there because there's so much data available via the UBPR data and other publicly available sources where folks will often do peer comparisons. What we're really talking about here is looking at the transactional level and looking at the customer level within the bank, being able to draw conclusions as to what that customer behavior is, both on the strategic level and on the tactical level.

Brian Bauer [00:08:03]:

Right? So what's happening with my customers that might indicate the need for a new type of product or service? Or where is their, where are we kind of underpenetrated within that customer base based upon the data and what the data tells us. And then once we kind of make a decision there, maybe we do need to launch a new product, or maybe we don't. We're going based off what the data is telling us, which are those customers that I should be engaging and on what type of product or service? What type of message should I be sending those customers? Because I did this, a little bit of informal study in my own customer engagement, and in the month of July, I had over 100 customer engagements from all different kinds of brands, everything from Amex sending me high yield savings to offers for commercial loans and everything in between. Community and regional banks really have to enter, I think that conversation a little bit more and understand that their customers, there's competition going on all the time and it's only amping up. And the amount of offers your customers are getting are through the roof. And so if they don't know what you offer, if you're not out there proactively in front of those customers, whether it's through a digital engagement channel or it's through what we like to call the relationship channel, where a lot of these community and regional banks like to differentiate themselves, is on some level, it's a human is picking up the phone and actually being proactive about engaging those customers and engaging them at the right time. So community and regional banks, I think, have a huge opportunity there to develop deeper relationships with their customers. And look, ultimately it's more profitable relationships as well.

Brian Bauer [00:09:50]:

But sometimes they need the guidance on where do we apply, where do we start that effort, where's the biggest value? And we're really using data to bring that to the surface.

James Robert Lay [00:09:59]:

You made a very interesting point. Digital engagement versus, I think you said, relational engagement channel. What do you mean between the two? Digital is, I would say it's obvious, but once again, it's like data. I don't want to be nebulous here. I want to be very specific into where the potential opportunity is, but also the relational engagement, and give me some perspective. Then I want to also maybe overlay that with some additional context just based upon what I'm seeing as well.

Brian Bauer [00:10:30]:

Oh, no, I'm very much interested in your perspective on that, where you're seeing the engagement and success on the digital side. But look, I think there's a lot of channels you can engage your customer on a lot of folks are looking at in app types of engagement or when somebody lands on your website, a lot of folks are looking at how do we personalize the messaging or the marketing that those folks receive when they land on the website. A lot of banks are not even engaged in any kind of email marketing or being proactive about contacting their customers at all. I've got a bank, fantastic bank, best service of any bank that I've ever been with. The only time I ever get any kind of message from them is when it's a federal holiday approaching and they want to remind me that I can't send wires or aches on that day that the bank's going to be closed. So with the amount of times your customers are being engaged by your competitors, by the largest brands in the country, or fintechs that are out there, that's really, I think, on the digital side, where banks have to enter in that conversation and let customers know what the bank offers. Because banks or customers do what we all do when we have a need. We go to Google first oftentimes, and we're going to Google first because we don't have the answer to the question, or maybe we've nothing.

Brian Bauer [00:11:51]:

They've not approached us on that awareness level to let us know that the bank even offers that type of product or service. And so customers go to Google, and a lot of times if they end up back at the bank, it's because they didn't find what they needed out there. They got declined. So there's a little bit of adverse selection if that customer eventually does come back around. And on the relationship side, it's everything from a actual personal email being sent to picking up the phone and calling the customer or setting meetings with those customers, which are very important, especially on the commercial and business side, is that human level interaction that's happening, because if your connection with your customers purely and exclusively digital, that can be replicated by bank of America or replicated by chime. So certainly not to say that customers don't want that digital convenience, that's table stakes today. Your customers demand and have to have the digital convenience, but they, you know, they also want a human that they can engage with as well when necessary.

James Robert Lay [00:12:54]:

It's the human experience that I'm very interested in. And you're like, well, that's, that's kind of interesting. James Robert, for those watching or listening. Cause I thought you were part of the digital Growth Institute. It's all digital. Digital is, is a primary touch point. It is often the initiating touchpoint of a shopping or buying experience for a financial product, particularly if it's a perspective or new account holder. However, back to your point, the human experience, the human relationship to me is something that I'm gonna go out and make a pretty bold statement here.

James Robert Lay [00:13:30]:

I think as we move further into the age of AI, we're going to see the pendulum swing away from, we'll just call it team tech to team humanity. And it doesn't mean the technology is going to go away. In fact, I think we're going to continue to see doubling down of technology from an adoption standpoint. Within financial services, however, we cannot forsake the human experience, particularly at a community financial brand level, because it is the relationships that we have that is a differentiator from other national and digital only brands. And so when you're talking about using data, data can be used to deepen the relationship, to reach out at the right time and to even ask the right questions. And it's by asking the right questions that we can surface new potential opportunities that a current account holder might not be even aware of, that we can help solve a pain or solve a problem for them. And so it's the blending of the two worlds, even to the point to where, when we're thinking about the digital experience, let's say we have a lender or a, a leader, an advisor of some sorts, working within a financial brand and utilizing that personalized, quote, unquote, one on one outreach supported by some level of automation. We're seeing a lot of that within the CRM space, but something has to inform that activity.

James Robert Lay [00:15:00]:

It just can't be, we're going to do the same thing for everyone. It has to be very specific, very bespoke, getting into now the conversation of ABM or account based marketing. Marketing and sales right here.

Brian Bauer [00:15:14]:

Yeah. Account based marketing is, I think, a huge opportunity for banks to embrace this concept, especially banks that are not. If you're not thinking about customer engagement, or maybe you're thinking about customer engagement and it's very monolithic, like you want to send, you're thinking, hey, we need to get out and communicate with our customers. But you're not necessarily thinking about the fact that, look, we really actually need to send specific messages to specific customers because everyone's needs are different. There's no use sending a message about your great product or service to a customer who doesn't even have a primary checking relationship with you. That individual needs a specific message that is relevant to the relationship that they have with your institution, because they know what the relationship is. The question is, do you know what the relationship is as the banker? And so I think that's a challenge for a lot of bankers. And I think what we're doing is helping apply some customer level intelligence that helps them segment those customers in a way that helps describe what that customer's relationship is, what that customer thinks their relationship is with a bank, and make sure that that messaging is relevant, that the bank is showing the knowledge of understanding what that customer's relationship is with the institution.

Brian Bauer [00:16:39]:

And I think that's incredibly important, because otherwise, your customer, you run the risk of your customers tuning you out, and then you lose the opportunity to deliver a relevant message at the right time and place.

James Robert Lay [00:16:50]:

I want to roll this back a little bit because ABM, or account based marketing, might not be a generally well known term yet within financial services. I know if we go outside of the vertical, for example, might be SaaS software as a service. ABM might be a more well known term. What is ABM? And there's another acronym. What is account based marketing for those that they, either they, they've heard of it, they're not 100% sure what it is, or this is maybe the first time that it's just popping up on their radar.

Brian Bauer [00:17:26]:

Well, I love your answer to this, too. So after I give my crack at one, but it's as close as possible to generating one to one level conversations with your customer. So it's demonstrating an understanding of your customer on that level and really approaching them as a customer one. Now, it might not actually be a customer one, right? It may be a segment of 500, or it may be a segment of 100, and it could be anything from a retail customer segment that you've identified that you want to approach in this way using this methodology. Or it could be the hundred strategic accounts that you see on the commercial side that, hey, we really need to, we really need to wrap our solution kind of around these hundred strategic accounts and approach them with what is effectively a custom package in order to earn that business. And it involves both sales and marketing. It's account based marketing. So a lot of people think to marketing first, but it really has to happen on those multiple levels.

Brian Bauer [00:18:30]:

And it's coordinated. You're running that whether it's a limited time campaign or it's a continuous campaign of engagement with those strategic customers in order to open the door, gain the interest, understand that customer. I think that's, I'm talking about it very much from the bank's point of view, but I think it also forces you if you take that approach and you do it well to understand your customer in a way that maybe you don't understand today, because if you want to get relevant to that customer and you want to make sure that you're delivering messaging that's really on point, it requires you to understand something about that customer in a deeper way than you might using another approach. But I want to hear your perspective. You're the marketer of the room, right? Well, I just pretend.

James Robert Lay [00:19:19]:

Well, no, but this is where I think there's a lot of collaboration that comes out of these conversations. In fact, I want to give a specific use case of this here. And let's look at this on the b two b side. You know, small to mid sized business, commercial, um, expertise is going to be critical here. And really positioning as an expert, someone that understands my unique situation. Take American Express. Right. You, you're getting the offer from Amex? I'm getting the offer from Amex, but I don't know anyone at Amex.

James Robert Lay [00:19:56]:

But then I think about some of the other institutions that I have relationships with. I actually know who's there that I can call when I have a problem. So when I look at account based marketing, you're right, I think it's a misnomer to think, oh, well, that's just a marketing activity. This is marketing and sales and marketing and sales. And I wrote about this in banking on digital growth. The opportunity for marketing and sales that compete against one another, which is, I think, has been the historical context here. But marketing and sellers, to connect and to collaborate, to co create value together, is one of the greatest future growth opportunities. And the outcome of that is threefold.

James Robert Lay [00:20:38]:

It's more connections that lead to deeper conversations that ultimately result in some level of commitment. And we're actually working on a new methodology. It's going to be, it's the framework for my next book, banking on expertise. And we've put a, we've put a project name on this and we've, we're calling it level up business. And it is a way for growth minded lenders, particularly on the SMB side of things, to have simply conversations with ideal prospects. Those conversations then are turned into podcast conversation. Podcasts like the ones that we're doing right here, which through the podcast, what are you getting? You're getting information into where their pains, questions, concerns are, where their opportunities are. You're also co creating to go help other entrepreneurs or other, you know, commercial accounts, and as a result, you're deepening that relationship.

James Robert Lay [00:21:39]:

So you're having more connections leading to more conversations which ultimately, over time, will lead to a deeper level of commitment. And the first commitment could just simply be, you know what we're doing? You go in and you identify the top 100 accounts based upon data. Well, instead of just going straight to market with an offer, it's like, no, we're going to come. We're doing an industry research project. Would love to do a 15 minutes interview with you.

Brian Bauer [00:22:05]:

I love it. Yeah.

James Robert Lay [00:22:06]:

And then from there it's like, I love what you shared. Can we do a further follow up? I'd love to interview you for our podcast because they're becoming the hero of the narrative and the institution. And that SMB, lender or leader is just playing the role of the helpful and empathetic guide. And so it's completely transforming the dynamic of the relationship that over time it's like it's making a deposit, it's making another deposit, it's making another deposit into the trust fund of potential prospects or current account holders that we don't have deep of a relationship with, that the relationship is no longer transactional. It becomes transformational.

Brian Bauer [00:22:47]:

Trey, you kind of beat me to that. On the, as community banks, regional banks, it is about the relationship. And we say that, and I think we often say it and we mean it. But oftentimes the goal oriented approach or metric oriented approach can drive us towards transactional behavior even though we want to be more relational. Right. And I think where account based marketing is so unique and different compared to other approaches is it does focus on the relationship building and relationship value and understanding your customer in a way that you didn't understand before. Right. And it's the natural result of going through that process and engaging your customer on that level is more business.

Brian Bauer [00:23:36]:

So it's almost paradoxical, right, in that you're approaching it from the relationship standpoint and remaining focused on the relationship standpoint. But the natural outcome of that is more business. But if you try to approach it for the business and you approach it transactionally, you might not end up with the business at all for a lot of reasons, because you didn't seek to understand the customer. Maybe you didn't seek to take that information back and turn that into product and offering, because that all feeds, it all feeds on itself. And you said something the other day, I caught you on the podcast here, and you were talking about why would somebody want to buy or why would somebody want to open up a checking account with our institution. It's a profound question. It's a question that doesn't get asked often enough, and I think that's why you were asking it. You're posing that question and through an account based marketing style approach, you can come to that answer.

Brian Bauer [00:24:40]:

You can ask yourself that question and understand the customer's perspective and force yourself into their perspective. And the natural result of that is answering the question. And then the natural result of answering the question is gaining or earning the business. Earning the business.

James Robert Lay [00:24:58]:

You talk about this idea of understanding and it reminds me of some ancient wisdom to where, and some might know this. It's helped me to not so much seek to be consoled as to console, to be understood as to understand, to be loved as to love. And it really is a flip of the relational model. And we are taking, we're helping first and then we're selling second. It's also, it's for going the macro to focus on the micro. And I do believe in the age of AI where human connection has the potential to have a perceived higher value. And it's all perception that the micro has the potential to beat the macro, even for that matter. But it's the, it's the work that you're doing that's providing the insights to then have the deeper level micro conversations that creates a greater impact and a greater value for prospective account holders, and then as a result, create value for the organization.

James Robert Lay [00:26:04]:

What is it that holds financial brands back from realizing the potential here? What's the biggest impediment or the biggest roadblock when it comes to, we'll just say ABM, or using customer insights to deepen relationships and ultimately grow deposits and loans?

Brian Bauer [00:26:28]:

Yeah, I think there's a couple of things. I mean, it's a good question. There's a couple of things there. One of them is our confidence in ourselves. Can we get out and engage these customers in a way that's going to generate results? If you're thinking about this quarter, what are the deposits we're going to put on this quarter? Then I think you are thinking about it. A person's thinking about it incorrectly at that point in time. It's about who do we engage and develop that relationship with. I've heard bankers talk about when the data will the customer move their deposits off the book.

Brian Bauer [00:27:06]:

Those deposits are gone. I can't get them anymore. It's like, well, that would be the transactional frame of reference, right where the value of that customer is really the transaction of the deposits moving off the book and not the idea that this is a customer that's a high value client. They had enough to move off the book that it mattered. And you should find out more about them and about what their needs are. Because if nothing more, in engaging that customer, you learn something. You learn something from that customer, you understand why they went to the competition versus you. Maybe it was rate, maybe they're rate sensitive and that's it.

Brian Bauer [00:27:42]:

And they really cared about the yield. Maybe it's because they didn't even know that you had anything to offer at the bank, because nobody had been proactive about reaching out. But that conversation is meaningful. A human connection is meaningful. And they're going to think about you next time. I think about the person I get my mortgage from who religiously sends me a note every year on my birthday. A handwritten note. It's a real handwritten note.

Brian Bauer [00:28:04]:

It's not the fake one. And they've just maintaining that top of mind with me. Now he knows I'm getting a mortgage. This last year he sold me my last one. It's like at 2.9%, so there's no way I'm getting a new mortgage. But religiously he sent me that handwritten note and remains top of mind for me. So he's engaging me on a human level with a handwritten note. Nobody does that, right? You got all these digital channels out there that are just bombarded, and here he decides to tune in on a handwritten note channel, and that becomes unique on that level.

Brian Bauer [00:28:35]:

I think the second thing that holds bankers back is confidence in the offering. What do we. I've said this many times to anybody that would listen, but if you feel insecure about what the offering is, then that's your first sign. If you feel insecure about what you're selling to your customer, then that's the first sign that you need to take a look and reflect upon what the offering is and determine whether or not the offering really matches. What the customers need are if you made an arbitrary decision years ago to, let's say, partner with a certain credit card company, and that's now the car product that you offer, but you know your customers don't like it, and so you feel uncomfortable engaging your customers to cross promote that type of product, then you need to look internally and say, okay, why is that the case? Right? Do we need to go to the drawing board? Do we need to understand our customers better in order to get a product or service that matches what their needs are more closely? Because if you do have that and you have something that your customers need and value, then you should feel comfortable push, you know, getting in front of those customers and pushing that product out into the world and talking about it. And so, you know, as an entrepreneur, this has always kind of been my, it's almost my litmus test, right. If, you know, if we launch a new insight and I don't feel comfortable about it, and I don't feel comfortable about talking about it now, if I didn't feel comfortable about getting in front of a customer with it, that means it's not good enough. And we need to go back to the drawing board.

Brian Bauer [00:30:03]:

We need to continue the work. Right. So that's my own personal litmus test that I use kind of in my.

James Robert Lay [00:30:09]:

I like those examples. And I want to go back to the idea of your mortgage lender with the handwritten note. It goes back to that three C's model that I was mentioning. Connections lead to conversations. Conversations lead to commitments. Well, you already gave him a commitment. You did your mortgage with him at 2.9. Like you said, you're not going to do another mortgage right now.

James Robert Lay [00:30:29]:

However, he's still making connections that when the time is right, it will transpire into another conversation that has the potential to yield another commitment. So it's a long game here as well. And I think any type of transformational relationship, it is a long game. It's not something that transpires in 30 days or you send an email, you place an ad or you put an offer out there, you, you might. I mean, if, particularly in the b two B space, I mean, if you think about it, it's like, uh, the anecdotal data is like they're, you know, 3% of, of businesses are market ready for your offer. Well, the other 97%, that's relationship. At that point, you're, you're having to make deposits into the trust funds of people, and that trust fund sits between their ears. And sometimes it can take weeks, months, even years of placing deposits.

James Robert Lay [00:31:29]:

But ultimately, just like any investment, there will be a payoff to that, the.

Brian Bauer [00:31:36]:

Long game of that relationship building. And that's back to that paradox, right? Is if you're willing to invest in that. And look, you invest in that because you care. You're investing in that relationship because you actually care about the customer, and you want to see the customer do better, and you want to have things that are valuable for your customer because you want to serve them better. And if you're doing those things and if you're caring and you're marching down that pathway, it's not going to be something that you went over, right? It's not going to be next week, it's not going to be this quarter. It might not even be next quarter. But you're planting that, you know, you're planting those seeds of relationship and you're cultivating those relationships over time and the inevitability, and I really like to talk about it as an inevitability because it is an inevitability if you're authentic to what your mission is and your brand, right? And I know you talk about this a lot about, you know, back to that, why somebody open up a checking account at this institution, right? If you're. And if you really answer that question and you mark, you walk that path, the inevitability is winning more business.

Brian Bauer [00:32:38]:

Because, you know, in my, in my life, you know, my experience is that's it's almost a law of nature, right? You invest in the relationship and those will eventually return back. And, you know, it's why I think what, you know, one of the things you're doing here with this, you know, with this podcast is so, you know, is so great because you're leading with the give. You know, you're leading with a give. And the give is knowledge, and it's so valuable to gain insight. And, you know, luckily, you have a lot of other people on here, except for my, you know, besides myself, who can actually share something really profound with your audience, you know, the other folks that you have on the show. But it's leading with a give of some insight. And you know, that, that it's always good to lead with that kind of give.

James Robert Lay [00:33:21]:

Well, I really appreciate that, but I also have to just have some full disclosure and honesty and truth here. There's a little bit of selfishness to this. And what I mean is, I learn so much like I am a student. And I mean, just in this conversation today with you, Brian, it's like, I have learned so much. You've helped me see things differently, and I know that seeing things differently is the first step of human transformation. And so I love to give, I love to share, I love to elevate, I love to see others like yourself, be able to communicate and help others see things differently. But I'm not gonna lie, I love learning, too. And so I scratched this itch into your point.

James Robert Lay [00:34:02]:

It's around knowledge. There's a knowledge transfer that's going on here. And when you go back to the question, why should I open account or apply for a loan at your financial brand? And it's all the same, you know, type of a perspective or the same type of narrative that's shared. That's an internal belief. And if that's the internal belief, then we know that the belief is going to drive the action externally. It's going to drive the behavior externally. What I do see is missing, though, and it is the most profound growth opportunity. It comes back to the three C's that we've been talking about.

James Robert Lay [00:34:35]:

It will lead to more connections, that lead to more conversations, that lead to more commitments. The lack or the lack of perspective. The lack of belief is why someone should open an account is because of our knowledge, it's because of our expertise, it's because of our experience. And I do believe that for the financial brands that unlock, capture and amplify that, whether that's at a macro level or it's more in an account based marketing and sales perspective, that's a way to differentiate, you know, from the masses in the sea of sameness. To really, truly say, you know what, we have knowledge, we have expertise. And that expertise can guide you forward beyond your current state to help you achieve your goals, to help cure your pains so that you can realize a bigger, better and brighter future. As we wrap up here, Brian, what is one thing that someone who is watching or listening can do next on their own journey of growth to apply the thinking that you have shared here today so they can take some action?

Brian Bauer [00:35:41]:

Yeah, I'm going to say that it's don't wait for perfection to engage your customers. Right. I talked to a lot of bankers who they're waiting for, oh, we need a CRM or we need this next. You don't even need revio insight to engage your customers. The exercise of getting out, engaging your customers is going to be a learning experience. And if you do so and approach it from that relationship building standpoint, you're going to do what you just said, which is you're going to learn a lot and you're going to be able to bring that information back. So I think that is the pick up the phone and call a customer or send an email and send an appointment and have a conversation with somebody and without expectation. Because I think that's kind of the magic there that will eventually lead to the outcomes that you're looking for if you're trying to grow the business.

Brian Bauer [00:36:32]:

You know, another thing I'll say here is just on brand, right? And I know you talk brand a lot and I think that brands are something. And you touched on this, right? It's not just about what the market believes about you, but it's about what you believe about yourself and I think that's bankers in the space don't recognize that enough when it comes to brand. I talked to folks, you know, all across the board, and you ask them what a brand is and they might just point to the logo and, you know, and it's that the logo doesn't carry meaning, right. And if it doesn't carry meaning, then it's not a brand. And so investing in the brand of the organization really helps on that account based marketing approach to bring some insight to your customer as to what the bank's all about, what the values are, the institution. So that way they can have some assumptions. Whenever somebody engages with you or engages with them from the bank, they already know something about the bank and what the bank stands for and what the bank means. And that really helps so much in the effectiveness of something like an account based marketing approach.

Brian Bauer [00:37:40]:

Right? They work in tandem. They're not independently. They don't work necessarily independently. They are more effective because of each other. If you write investment there. And on the learning front, I appreciate what you're doing. I learned all the time. Every time I am scrolling down my LinkedIn feed, there's always a reason to stop for 60 or 90 seconds and catch one of your clips.

Brian Bauer [00:38:01]:

And so I appreciate what you're doing out there to spread the gospel, because I think this is somewhere. I don't want to live in a world where there's only ten mega institutions. I want to live in a world where we continue to have vibrant community banks that are the backbone of our country, in our economy. They're a strategic differentiator for, for our economy. And so anyone who's looking to help community banks continue to grow and stay competitive in the market and is a friend of community banks is a friend of mine. And so I appreciate what you're doing to spread the knowledge and love.

James Robert Lay [00:38:31]:

Well, I'm right there with you. Community financial brands are the backbone of the local economy, and that's how we all continue to grow and level up together, just as we've done here today. Brian, you talk about learning. If someone who is watching, listening, they want to continue the conversation we've started here today. What is the best way for them to reach out? Connect. Say hello to you.

Brian Bauer [00:38:51]:

Yeah, just connect with me on LinkedIn. Search me on LinkedIn or go follow revio Insight. You'll find me through there. Or go to revioinsight.com and check out a little bit about the company and who we are.

James Robert Lay [00:39:03]:

Connect with Brian. Learn with Brian. Grow with Brian. Brian, thanks for joining me. For another episode of the Banking on Digital Growth podcast. This has been so much fun today, buddy.

Brian Bauer [00:39:11]:

Now, thank you.

James Robert Lay [00:39:12]:

Thanks for having me, as always. And until next time, be well, do good, and be the light.