Understanding the Professional Development Experiences of Introverted Leaders
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Understanding the Professional Development Experiences of Introverted Leaders

Northwestern University Master of Science in Learning and Organizational Change Capstone Project - Winter 2024

Student Investigator: Timothy Michael

Principal Investigator: Dr. Marina Micari

Abstract

Organizations have an interest in supporting the development of effective and capable leaders, but many leadership development strategies do not consider the processing and learning preferences of high-introvert individuals. Introverts can and do hold leadership positions, but little research has been conducted to examine the conditions that support the development of their leadership capabilities. In this qualitative research study I interviewed 12 introverted individuals who hold formal leadership positions within their organizations in an effort to understand their professional development experiences as leaders. The results suggest that providing one-on-one development opportunities such as mentorship programs and tapping into introverts’ intrinsic motivations can lead to better outcomes in leadership skills and confidence.

Introduction of the Question and Methodology

Background and Rationale

As learning and organizational change practitioners, we have an interest in supporting the development of all the individuals who make up an organization. Organizational behavior researchers have examined the connection between personality traits and organizational behaviors for decades, paying particular attention to predictors of leadership. The relationship between extraversion and leadership emergence has been well documented (Bono & Judge, 2004; Hunter et al. 2013), but significantly less research exists on the leadership capabilities and development experiences that may be unique to introverts.

Introversion as a Personality Trait

Swiss psychiatrist Carl Jung is typically credited with first defining introversion and extraversion as they relate to human psychology, claiming that people fall into one of the two categories, with extraverts being outwardly focused and introverts being inwardly focused (Jung, 1923, as cited by Blevins et al., 2022). There is no one agreed-upon definition, but extraversion and introversion have commonly been described as opposing ends of a personality spectrum. According to Wilmot et al. (2019), “The prototypical extravert is talkative, gregarious, prefers taking charge, expresses positive emotion, and enjoys stimulating activities. In contrast, the prototypical introvert is quiet, emotionally reserved, less energetic, and harder to get to know” (p. 1448).

In the early 1990s, building upon previous personality frameworks, Lewis Goldberg introduced an updated inventory of the Big Five factor traits, asserting that human personality can be described across five main domains: extraversion, openness to experience, agreeableness, conscientiousness, and neuroticism (Goldberg, 1992). Each of these domains comprises secondary but related characteristics. This inventory has become the standard for many in the study of personality, as it has been validated across culture and country and has remained fairly consistent in its application over the past 30 years (Olson & Weber, 2004). Perhaps due to the popularity of Goldberg’s (1992) Big Five factor inventory of personality, research has tended to focus on extraversion, with introversion being seen as the lack of, or low, extraversion. A meta-analysis of 69 research articles on extraversion and introversion in the workplace found a significant positive bias towards extraversion and the terms that are used to describe it, while introversion was more likely to be described from a deficit-based perspective (Blevins et al., 2022).

In the past decade, interest in research on introversion has increased. More studies have attempted to examine introversion from a strengths-based, or at least neutral, perspective. Research in educational settings has led the way, inquiring into the unique needs and skills of introverted students in an attempt to create more inclusive learning environments (Godsey, 2015). However, there is less research that looks at high-introvert individuals and their contributions to workplace settings and leadership domains.

Introversion and Leadership

Introversion occurs on a spectrum and individuals may find themselves feeling more introverted in some situations than in others (Zaccaro, 2007). While it may not be possible to arrive at an accurate figure, studies frequently find that between 30 and 50% of the population is introverted (Cain, 2013). Yet, introverts are underrepresented in formal leadership positions (Spark et al., 2022) and are often perceived as less leader-like than their extraverted peers (Ensari et al., 2011; Spark & O’Connor, 2021). Specifically, there is an opportunity to explore the situations and interventions that support leadership emergence among introverted individuals. With such a sizable segment of the population being at a disadvantage for leadership development and opportunities, research that looks at the professional development experiences of high-introvert leaders has the potential to provide important insights into this phenomenon and work to shift this imbalance.

Drawing upon research on personality types and leadership, this study sought to better understand the conditions and factors that support leadership development of introverted individuals within an organizational setting. The research question explored was, “How do introverted individuals with leadership roles understand their professional development as leaders?”

Figure 1: Research framework illustrating the focal experience of professional development as a leader, drawing upon previous research on personality traits, leadership studies, and motivational factors.

Methodology

This qualitative study used semi-structured interviews which were conducted over Zoom video conferencing. Twelve individuals were recruited from the researcher’s extended network and participated in 30- to 45-minute interviews. An online questionnaire was shared with interested parties to determine eligibility. Eligibility criteria were defined as introverted individuals who hold formal leadership positions within their organizations and who are at least 18 years of age, speak English, and live and work in the United States. A short, four-question survey (see Appendix B) was included in the eligibility questionnaire to gauge the level of each participant’s introversion (high, medium, or low), but the primary determinant of introverted status was the participants themselves, i.e. self-identification. Additionally, formal leadership was defined as having two or more direct reports and/or holding a position that provides significant decision-making authority for the organization.

?Interview participants were asked 11 main questions with additional follow-up questions to elicit more examples or further details. The interview began with questions about their leadership role, how they understand introversion for themselves, i.e. how introversion “shows up” for them, and the qualities they assign to being introverted. Subsequent questions asked about their leadership style and career motivations, formative professional development experiences they have had, and their understanding of how these experiences may have been shaped or influenced by their introversion (see Appendix C for interview questions).

Analysis & Results

Analysis

Interview transcripts were auto-generated by Zoom software. Each transcript was cleaned manually for accuracy and to capture significant non-verbal cues such as laughter and body language. A first round of coding was completed within the transcript documents as in-text comments, revealing initial themes and patterns. A concept map was created to visually illustrate the frequency of stated themes and to identify possible connections between said themes (see Appendix D). After significant and recurring themes had been identified, raw data (quotes) from the transcripts were sorted into Excel spreadsheets by theme so they could be analyzed in a side-by-side manner to confirm similarities and exclude data that did not fit within the theme.

Findings

The research revealed several key findings, which will be further described below. Clear patterns emerged from the interviews that identified the types of professional development experiences introverts prefer, the ways in which introverts make sense of their own identities as leaders and how that interacts with their introversion, and the motivations that drive them in their professional pursuits.

Finding 1: Building one-on-one connections as a pathway to development

Every participant in the research study reported that they prefer connecting with people one-on-one as opposed to in larger social settings. It is likely unsurprising that introverts would express this preference so strongly, but there seems to be a connective thread between this preference and the ways in which introverts develop as leaders. In discussing formative professional development experiences, participants clearly articulated the benefits they received from having a mentor who believed in them, provided guidance, and encouraged them to find their own style of leadership.

One participant shared this about his mentor:

“Those kinds of connections are like, really, really important. And you know for me…where I've seen the most success…when I have someone that's looking out for me and being positive…it re-energizes me to be able to give more.” - Interview Subject 4

More than half (7) of the participants also named the positive impact of having a mentor with whom they shared an identity, whether that was being introverted or another identity:

“I was on the board of a network and another person on the board, who's an Asian trans man, took me aside and…explained more about how my personality or my role could fit into the larger project and what we were trying to do with [the] movement. [It] gave me some…sense of belonging and purpose in the group, besides [just] being ‘the quiet person.’” - Interview Subject 10

Research has demonstrated that extraverts are more skilled at forming social relationships with others (Duffy & Chartrand, 2015), and 30% of participants in this study expressed that they do encounter difficulties in building and maintaining relationships. When asked about how they tend to form professional relationships, nearly all (10 of 11) participants reported that relationships usually begin over a work task, as opposed to attending networking events or striking up casual conversations with colleagues with whom they are not acquainted.

“For my professional relationships…a lot of them began with like an email about a specific something… So a lot of times, you really get to know a person on a project.” – Interview Subject 11

Nine of the 12 individuals interviewed for this study also discussed the importance of forging deep connections with others to build trust and work together effectively. This desire to build deeper connections with a select few was reflected in the stories they shared of being mentored by others as well as in the ways that they have mentored their own employees:

“I really relate a lot on a one-to-one level with people. And so I feel like that's where I'm most comfortable, and that's where I can be of more benefit a lot of the time. So I love… the coaching aspect of my job, coaching and supporting people on my team and [in] my department.” - Interview Subject 2

While the positive benefits of being mentored are likely experienced across the introversion-extraversion spectrum, the one-on-one connection that a mentorship affords appears to create a development experience that is well-suited to introverts’ orientations.

Finding 2: The experience of being a “functional extravert”

If extraversion is the number one personality trait that predicts leadership emergence (Bono & Judge, 2004), how then do introverts experience stepping into leadership roles that might require them to be more extraverted? Spark & O’Connor (2021) examined the difference between trait extraversion and state extraversion and conducted a study in which introverted individuals were asked to “act extraverted” in group tasks.

This phenomenon of “acting extraverted” was mentioned by every participant interviewed for this study. One participant referred to this as being a “functional extravert.” While Spark & O’Connor (2021) found that many introverts who acted extraverted in order to appear more leader-like enjoyed the experience, participants in our research study were more apt to discuss the downsides of behaving in a way that feels unnatural for them. Within these conversations, two main themes emerged.

Finding 2A: Acting extraverted depletes energy

When asked for their personal definition of introversion, 11 out of 12 participants described introversion in relation to energy: losing energy in social situations and recharging by being alone. This energy was described to include not only physical stamina, but also mental willpower and the ability to regulate and fully experience emotions. Acting extraverted drains introverts’ energy levels.

“Maybe this goes back to…I've learned to fake being an extrovert, that it takes energy to stand in front of the group, lead the meetings, speak up, when I would rather not have to talk. And then…it just takes it out of me faster than it seems to affect other people.” Interview Subject 3?

Finding 2B: Acting extraverted feels inauthentic

In addition to depleting energy, participants expressed that acting extraverted feels inauthentic, even if the outcome of behaving in this way was a positive one.

“But…having to play that character of outgoing. And having to…put on that costume when I go to conferences…I don't always like the way that feels.” - Interview Subject 1
“If I try to do that [act extraverted], I am terrible…It's because I, I'm stretching it…it just doesn't feel authentic. And so I think that maybe from an introversion perspective, the energy that it requires…to bullshit someone, or, you know…this isn't a good fit…but I'm gonna do it anyway, is exhausting right?” - Interview Subject 5

While acting extraverted took a toll on the introverted leaders interviewed for this study, there was also a commonly expressed understanding that being a leader means occasionally doing things that push us outside of our comfort zones. Northouse (2019) describes leadership as an inherently social and relational process. The introverted leaders in this study described instances in which forcing themselves to be more social than they would have preferred was the right thing to do as leaders.

“We just had this huge meeting a few weeks ago, and it was my job to make sure people had fun. We're all engaging, we're all meeting people. And so I have to do it. And I think that's why some of my team thinks I'm not an introvert because they see me in that setting. But in that setting, I'm the boss, it's my job. But I get back to my room and I'm like <exasperated sigh> ...now I'm going to bed.”? - Interview Subject 9
“I would plan my visits around those social events, and so I would socialize a lot, and I'd rather not. Especially…they would always be after a day of work. So you're depleted to begin with. But powering through those things…it's this forcing of myself. Because I know that if the students are more comfortable with me, it'll help their learning.” - Interview Subject 12

Finding 3: Inward orientation, intrinsic motivations

Ample research has looked at extraversion and motivation and studies have found that extraverts demonstrate higher levels of motivation, particularly when the motivation is related to making social connections, gaining status, or being rewarded in some way (Ashton et al., 2002; Olson & Weber 2004; Wilmot et al., 2019). According to Hunter et al. (2013), “extraversion is associated with status striving, or the pursuit of goals directed toward obtaining power and dominance within a status hierarchy” (p. 319).

This correlation between high extraversion and motivational goals provides one possible explanation as to why introverts are less likely to emerge as leaders. In organizations, the rewards for pursuing leadership roles are frequently in alignment with the types of motivations that are found to be higher in trait extraverts (Wilmot et al., 2019). This begs the question, then: What motivates introverts to become leaders? Going into this research study, one assumption we held is that introverts may be more intrinsically motivated, given their more inward-facing orientation in other areas, such as processing information, problem solving, and decision making (Liegl & Furtner, 2023).

This study explored motivation with our research participants, asking a question about motivation directly and probing for motivational factors while discussing professional and leadership development. The table below illustrates the categories under which interview participants described their motivations:

Table 1: Categories of motivational factors as named by participants in this research study.

As demonstrated above, the participants in this study expressed motivations that were more intrinsic than extrinsic, supporting our assumption. While we are hesitant to confidently claim that this is true for all or most introverts, due to the sample size and industries represented by participants in this study (see Appendix A), we did find a clear connection between professional development experiences that align with an individual’s motivations and an increase in confidence and skills as leaders.

“I've been really encouraged [by my mentors] to figure out what works for me and prioritize the things that make me happy versus just…help my career only. So I think having been encouraged to take a lot of flexibility in what things could look like has been hugely helpful.” - Interview Subject 3

Limitations and Considerations

While the findings described above were consistent with all or a majority of participants in this research study, we note that they are mostly working in social sector or human capital fields. The results may have been different if the sample included more introverted leaders working in industries such as sales, technology, or finance.

Additionally, this study recruited individuals working and living in the United States. While there was diversity among the participants in age, gender, and racial identity, they are working within a Western context in which constructs of leadership and personality preferences are valued and seen differently than in other parts of the world (Zhang et al., 2017).

Recommendations

Recommendations for Future Research

We have only just begun to scratch the surface of understanding the differences between introverts and extraverts in an organizational context. In this research study, participants were asked to describe their leadership style. There is research that suggests that introverts are more likely to gravitate towards cooperative, authentic, or servant leadership styles (Hunter et al., 2013) while extraverts are more likely to be transformational, transactional, or charismatic leaders (Felfe & Schyns, 2016). Our research study generally confirms those findings. However, there is an opportunity to further delve into the connection between introversion and leadership styles using validated tools such as the one Walumbwa et al. (2008) developed for authentic leadership.?

Because introversion is a personality trait that cuts across gender, race, culture, and ability, there are also countless opportunities to explore the ways in which being introverted interacts with and is influenced by other social factors and identities.

Recommendations for Organizations and Managers

This study contributes to a growing body of research on introverts and the ways in which they contribute to organizations. Blevins et al. (2022) identified a negative bias towards introversion in the literature, and this study sought to approach introversion from a more balanced perspective, asking introverted leaders to discuss the benefits and challenges they encounter that they believe are related to their introversion.

Even though introverts may be less inclined to step into leadership roles than extraverts, there are situations in which a leader who is high on introversion may be more effective than one who is high on extraversion (Grant et al., 2011; Spark et al., 2018). Participants in this study identified strengths in listening, observation, thoughtfulness, intentionality, and focus as benefits they believe are tied to introversion. Organizations and managers can support introverted individuals in leveraging these strengths and encourage introverts to embrace their processing preferences rather than treating their quieter nature as a deficit. One participant described this interaction with a previous manager:

“I had a boss…she said to me something that I'll never forget. She said, ‘I want to hear your opinions on everything.’ [S]he was one of the typical extroverted bosses who questions the introvert about ‘why you aren't talking as much?’ But it was the way she said it - it made me feel that she valued me, because most people just say, ‘Well, you don't talk? What? Why don't you have anything to say?’ It's more skewing negative. And the way she framed it, she said, ‘I want to know what's in your head. You know I have you in this role because I know you can contribute, and you bring something different to the table.’”? - Interview Subject 6

Given their preference for connecting with people one-on-one as opposed to in larger groups, organizations can support the leadership development of their introverted employees by offering mentorship programs and career coaching in addition to more traditional professional development experiences like courses and conferences. The introverts interviewed for this study acknowledged that conferences can be very beneficial avenues for learning and connecting, and some had developed strategies to make attending these kinds of events more comfortable. For example, one participant intentionally reaches out to make connections with one or two conference goers ahead of time so that she knows someone at the event. Another participant reserves a hotel room near conferences so that she can take breaks throughout the day and recharge alone. Introverted individuals who wish to develop as leaders can employ similar strategies to mitigate the energy depletion that comes from engaging in tiring (but beneficial) social situations.

Finally, in addition to tailoring professional development experiences to the orientations of more introverted individuals, managers can work with employees to align development goals with their professional motivations. Not all employees will be motivated by climbing the social ladder, and introverts in particular find higher motivation in activities that fulfill an intrinsic reward.

Conclusion

Organizations and teams benefit from effective and capable leaders, and there is no one-size-fits-all approach to leadership development. This research study heard from introverted leaders who have found their own way of leading and benefited from professional development opportunities that allowed them to leverage their unique strengths and lead in ways that felt authentic and influential.

Understanding the professional development experiences of introverted leaders is one step towards creating organizations and leadership development practices that are inclusive and increase belonging.

References

Ashton, M. C., Lee, K., & Paunonen, S. V. (2002). What is the central feature of extraversion? Social attention versus reward sensitivity. Journal of Personality and Social psychology, 83(1), 245.

Blevins, D. P., Stackhouse, M. R., & Dionne, S. D. (2022). Righting the balance: Understanding introverts (and extraverts) in the workplace. International Journal of Management Reviews, 24(1), 78-98.

Bono, J. E., & Judge, T. A. (2004). Personality and transformational and transactional leadership: a meta-analysis. Journal of Applied Psychology, 89(5), 901.

Cain, S. (2013). Quiet: The power of introverts in a world that can't stop talking. Crown.

Duffy, K. A., & Chartrand, T. L. (2015). The extravert advantage: How and when extraverts build rapport with other people. Psychological Science, 26(11), 1795-1802.

Ensari, N., Riggio, R. E., Christian, J., & Carslaw, G. (2011). Who emerges as a leader? Meta-analyses of individual differences as predictors of leadership emergence. Personality and Individual Differences, 51(4), 532-536.

Felfe, J., & Schyns, B. (2006). Personality and the Perception of Transformational Leadership: The impact of extraversion, neuroticism, personal need for structure, and occupational self‐efficacy. Journal of Applied Social Psychology, 36(3), 708-739.

Godsey, M. (2015). When schools overlook introverts. The Atlantic, 1-5.

Goldberg, L. R. (1992). The development of markers for the big-five factor structure. Psychological Assessment, 4(1), 26.

Grant, A. M., Gino, F., & Hofmann, D. A. (2011). Reversing the extraverted leadership advantage: The role of employee proactivity. Academy of Management Journal, 54(3), 528-550.

Hunter, E. M., Neubert, M. J., Perry, S. J., Witt, L. A., Penney, L. M., & Weinberger, E. (2013). Servant leaders inspire servant followers: Antecedents and outcomes for employees and the organization. The Leadership Quarterly, 24(2), 316-331.

Jung, C.G. (1923) Psychological Types: Or the Psychology of Individuation. Oxford: Harcourt Brace.

Liegl, S., & Furtner, M. R. (2023). Introverted and yet effective? A faceted approach to the relationship between leadership and extraversion.?Frontiers in Psychology,?14, 1185271.

McCabe, K. O., & Fleeson, W. (2012). What is extraversion for? Integrating trait and motivational perspectives and identifying the purpose of extraversion. Psychological Science, 23(12), 1498-1505.

Northouse, P. G. (2019). Introduction to leadership: Concepts and practice. Sage Publications.

Olson, K. R., & Weber, D. A. (2004). Relations between big five traits and fundamental motives. Psychological Reports, 95(3), 795-802.

Spark, A., Stansmore, T., & O'Connor, P. (2018). The failure of introverts to emerge as leaders: The role of forecasted affect. Personality and Individual Differences, 121, 84-88.

Spark, A., & O'Connor, P. J. (2021). State extraversion and emergent leadership: Do introverts emerge as leaders when they act like extraverts? The Leadership Quarterly, 32(3), 101474.

Spark, A., O'Connor, P. J., Jimmieson, N. L., & Niessen, C. (2022). Is the transition to formal leadership caused by trait extraversion? A counterfactual hazard analysis using two large panel datasets. The Leadership Quarterly, 33(2), 101565.

Walumbwa, F. O., Avolio, B. J., Gardner, W. L., Wernsing, T. S., & Peterson, S. J. (2008). Authentic leadership: Development and validation of a theory-based measure. Journal of Management, 34(1), 89-126.

Wilmot, M. P., Wanberg, C. R., Kammeyer-Mueller, J. D., & Ones, D. S. (2019). Extraversion advantages at work: A quantitative review and synthesis of the meta-analytic evidence. Journal of Applied Psychology, 104(12), 1447.

Zaccaro, S. J. (2007). Trait-based perspectives of leadership. American Psychologist, 62(1), 6.

Zhang, X., Zhou, J., & Kwan, H. K. (2017). Configuring challenge and hindrance contexts for introversion and creativity: Joint effects of task complexity and guanxi management. Organizational Behavior and Human Decision Processes, 143, 54-68.

Appendices

Appendix A

Introverted Leader Demographics

Appendix B

Eligibility Questionnaire

Individuals who were interested in participating in this study were asked to complete an online eligibility questionnaire to 1) determine if their status as a leader fit the requirements for this study; and 2) gauge their level of introversion using a short, validated tool:

Question 1: For this study I am interested in interviewing introverted individuals who hold formal leadership positions within their organizations, to better understand the professional development experiences that may be specific to introverts.

Would you say that you hold a formal leadership position within your organization, which could include having two or more individuals who report to you directly or having a job that includes the authority to make significant decisions for the organization?

  • Yes
  • No

Question 2: Please respond to the following statements. There is no right or wrong answer. It’s best to select the option that feels right – go with your initial reaction, and try not to overthink it

Statement 1: I see myself as someone who is outgoing and sociable.

  • Strongly agree
  • Somewhat agree
  • Neither agree nor disagree
  • Somewhat disagree
  • Strongly disagree

Statement 2: I see myself as someone who generates a lot of enthusiasm.

  • Strongly agree
  • Somewhat agree
  • Neither agree nor disagree
  • Somewhat disagree
  • Strongly disagree

Statement 3: I see myself as someone who tends to be quiet.

  • Strongly agree
  • Somewhat agree
  • Neither agree nor disagree
  • Somewhat disagree
  • Strongly disagree

Statement 4: I see myself as someone who is reserved.

  • Strongly agree
  • Somewhat agree
  • Neither agree nor disagree
  • Somewhat disagree
  • Strongly disagree

Appendix C

Interview protocol and script

Thank you again for taking the time to meet with me and for your interest in this study. Before we begin, I will share some important information with you about the study so that you can make an informed decision about whether or not you would like to continue. This research is supported by the School of Education and Social Policy at Northwestern University.

The purpose of this study is to better understand the professional development experiences of introverts who hold formal leadership positions within their organizations. I have scheduled an hour for us to talk, but we may not need the full time. Take your time in responding, and if you need me to clarify anything or repeat my questions please let me know. Do you have any questions before we begin?

Question 1: What does being an introvert mean to you? How would you define introversion?

Question 2: Tell me about a time that being introverted has shown up for you in the workplace?

  • Follow-up opportunity to expand upon example or ask for another.

Question 3: What skills do you possess or benefits have you encountered that you believe may be related to your introversion?

Question 4: What challenges or limitations have you encountered that you believe may be related to your introversion?

Question 5: Thinking about your organization, how do you tend to form professional relationships? What is most comfortable for you? If needed: For example, do you attend networking or social events organized for your workplace? Do you eat lunch with your colleagues?

  • Follow-up question: In what ways, if at all, do you think that may be related to your introversion?

Question 6: Tell me about your role as a leader in your organization.

Question 7: How would you describe your leadership style?

  • Possible follow-up questions: Are there certain situations in which you feel more comfortable leading? How would you describe your relationship with those you are leading?

Question 8: What motivates you in your work?

  • Follow-up questions: Are there certain rewards that are more motivating for you? These could be external rewards or rewards that are more personal or intrinsic.

Question 9: Can you provide any examples of something a manager or mentor did that helped you develop your leadership capabilities?

  • If applicable: How have you modeled or adapted those approaches in your own leadership?

Question 10: Can you tell me about any formal professional development experiences you've had? Examples could be a training program, a conference, or a course.

Question 11: As an introvert, how did you find those experiences or programs? What worked and what didn't?

  • Follow up and ask for more examples and details as time allows.

Appendix D

Concept map illustrating recurring themes and connections




Anthony Mersino

Founder | Value Delivery Specialist | Agility Consultant

5 个月

Congratulations Tim!

Jeri Bingham, EdD

Introvert Advocate I WGN Radio Podcast Host I Northwestern University Adjunct Lecturer I Marketing & Branding Executive I External Affairs I MBTI? Certified

5 个月

Congratulations Timothy Michael

Kelly C. Weiley, MS

Belonging Builder. Inclusion & Leadership Facilitator, Coach, Trainer

5 个月

I can't wait to dig into this article. Congratulations, Timothy Michael!

Samantha Ader

Strategic Capacity for Social Impact | Organizational Design & Effectiveness

5 个月

Congratulations, Tim! Very interesting research!

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