How to avoid getting duped when hiring for senior roles (My secret strategy)

This edition should take around 9 minutes to read

So you've decided you want to scale, and you're hiring for a senior role?- perhaps an Operations Manager, a General Manager, or a senior leader of a function (sales, marketing, finance, HR etc).

Let's face it.. you're probably going to be up against some professional interviewer who absolutely know how to nail a first interview, and you may have never hired someone this expensive before.

There's a lot at stake in getting this right.

Having hired many senior roles (I'd consider a senior role anything between 120k and 250k who manages people, as I'd use a different process for a CEO getting paid more than that).. I've failed a lot, made some bad hires and wasted money and time.

BUT.. having been through all that I really started to nail the majority of senior role interviews consistently and so wanted to share with you elements of my two-stage interview process that has really helped me avoid getting duped in this situation.

Using this approach will help you sniff out the professional interviewer before they waste your time and money. There's so much value in the second stage so don't get bored by stage one and think "I've seen this all before".

I'm also assuming that before you enter the first interview, you've already phone screened AND you know their financial expectations, so you don't have ay surprises at the end. If you're miles apart on the compensation before you make an offer that's not a good place to be.

So what is this magical interview process then? Well it's not magic.. but it does work. And it looks a little like this...

First Interview - 8 Important Questions ??

Let's be clear.. this first interview is all about finding red flags. You're looking for reasons NOT to proceed to second stage interview.

You can't assess everything, you'll typically only have an hour so you'll have to be focused on the critical things that will help you understand if there's a?potential?fit. You can then confirm an actual fit in your second interview. Your line of questioning should look a little like this.

1.?What's your understanding of what we do, and how this role fits in to the organisation?

Did they do any homework and therefore - do they actually care and want to work for you, or are you just a gig amongst many they're applying for? You are hiring for a senior role, and giving this person influence in your business. Would trust someone with your car keys if they don't even know your name? Then why would you trust someone to lead your people who don't even do their homework? No prep? Red flag.

2.?Why are you interested in coming to work for us?

Do they have real motivation, and what is it? It is?so?important that this person is interested in your business, you aren't going to get what you are looking for if you are hiring someone who has no real interest in working for you specifically.

3.?Walk me through these last three job transitions - what was the scope of each role and what was the driver for each of those transitions?

Understand their motivations - do they hop around? Did they leave because of conflict in multiple places? If they move regularly every 12-18 months, that's a pattern you can expect to play out at your company too. People don't generally change their trajectory, taking a look at their past role changes can give clues to how things will play out in the future.

4. What direction are you trying to take your career, and how would this role help you achieve that?

They need to get something from the experience. It's not all about you, and your business. The role they are taking is also a stage in their own career and they have a direction they want to take themselves in. Do you believe your job will truly help them achieve that direction? If not, the role may not sustain them for long.

5.?Tell me about your personal situation and how this role fits into your life

What kind of support do they have? How far do they travel to work? Do they have particular flexibility or support needs or expectations?

If they're travelling several hours each way to work, this is a yellow (if not red) flag. If a similar job at similar pay comes along and it's remote and yours if office-based, then you may find they leave pretty quickly. Who wouldn't want to save 4hrs of travel time each day? They're not an owner - and that kind of travel wears thin pretty quickly.

6.?Ask relevant technical questions (no more than 3-4)

Test their knowledge - ask them to explain their understanding of systems, frameworks, processes, principles or anything you need. This will elicit how deep their knowledge is in their technical area.

Ask what their go-to resources are in the technical area when they are stuck and don't know something. Do they have colleagues in the field they can lean on? Do they read and learn voraciously? Are they good researchers or do they just bury their head in the sand and hope it all works out?

7.?Ask relevant behavioural & experience-based questions (no more than 3-4)

This is where most people prioritise their questions in an interview as employers. And whilst they're useful, they're not everything.

Ask them for evidence of times when they've done something that you know will come up as a critical moment or regular challenge in the role. Something along the lines of "tell me about a time when you've had to XYZ". Or "What was the scenario, how did you work through your decision to find a way forward, what?was?the way forward, and what was the outcome?"

Don't spend too much time here - I promise you they've prepared for these, you need to get beyond this.

8. What questions do you have for us?

This is critical. If they have no real questions that means they've done very little preparation, and they probably don't care about you or this job. No questions for me is a red flag.

To proceed...or NOT to proceed...

Now you have to decide whether you should move to the second interview where we get the real insights. There are some important questions to ask yourself at this point, to help you decide whether to progress with them or not:

? Were they prepared for the interview, and did they show real interest in working for you, with real reasons?

? Did they have the required technical depth from your high level testing?

? Do they have the experience required and was the decision making process sound from your behavioural or experience-based questions?

? Is what you have to offer in the job aligned with their development needs and ambitions? Will it represent an exchange of value for them?

??Would you enjoy working with them? Solving problems with them? Will the relationship work? You don't want a bunch of people just like you, diversity is important, but you do need to also feel like you'll be able to communicate well and enjoy working together.

? Will they bring something extra to your culture? Will they contribute to it in a positive way (not just fit how it is now)? You want them to add something.

If yes to all of the above.. proceed to second interview.

Second Interview - Presentation, Discussion and More Questions

So they made it to the second interview, this is where it gets real. You're going to force them to prepare and present in a short timeframe and?show you how they think?(not sell a prepared script to you). This is where you'll go to the next level of questions that they also can't prepare for. This is where you see what they're made of.

The Presentation Component

Usually allow 90 mins, with 20 min for presentation, 30 min for discussion, and 40 mins of further open two-way Q&A.

Setting the right topic

Give them a topic to present on and keep it broad - and focus on "show me any way you like".?Don't give them more than 72hrs to prepare. You want them to feel pressure here to see how they step up.

Here's a few examples of the setup for a presentation:

Sales

"Super-broad example:?Show me?you're a sales scientist" or "Scenario-based example: You've got a team who are at 70% to their KPIs for the quarter, they don't look like they're going to make it. In the team there are two naysayers bringing everyone down, who are experienced and influential -?show me?how you'd get this team back on track"

Operations

"Super-broad example:?Show me?how you'd take our approach to delivery to a world-class level".

People

"Super-broad example:?Show me?how you'd elevate our leadership and performance to a best-in-class level"

Finance

"Scenario-based example: We've built a growth plan, and you've built the financial model. It suggests we'll need two rounds of capital at perhaps 1-2m each to fund it.?Show me?how you'd help us decide on whether we should take on debt or equity to fund it, and then?how?you'd secure that capital"

These are just a few ideas to stimulate your thinking but the point is to make either super-broad and let them bring their creativity and show off the depth and quality of their thinking, or to give them a multi-faceted scenario that requires them to show how they draw on all their experience to solve a problem that they're actually likely to face if they join you.

After the presentation, ask questions to go deeper

When they're done, you have 30 minutes to ask questions about the content, probe the thinking, get them to go deeper . This is your opportunity to further test the depth of their experience and thinking. Feel free to push the scenario further.. "what would you do if this then happened?". They can't prepare for this stuff - so push and get comfort they know what they're doing.

What are you looking for as an outcome from the presentation?

You want to evaluate few different things through this presentation, these include:

??Technical depth in the functional area?- did they pass your further probing on the scenario or questions about their presentation?

??Clarity, quality and depth of thinking?- can they get clear, logical, well-thought out approaches developed under pressure? How does it demonstrate they have the experience you need and can apply it to solve problems you're likely to face?

??Timeline?- getting concise thinking across in 20 minutes on a hard topic isn't easy, did they waffle for 45 minutes? Or did they nail the brief and do it in 20? This tells you how well they listened?and?whether they place value on deadlines. In reality - deadlines are a big part of senior roles and people have to work within constraints.

??Written and oral presentation skills?- if they choose to present on PowerPoint for example - the language you see is?precisely?the kind of language you can expect to see put in front of your team in the future - it will not be different I promise you. How they articulate themselves verbally is?precisely?how they'll communicate projects, strategy and change to your team in future. How comfortable are you with the quality of how they communicate under pressure?

The Second Round of Interview Questions

Ok.. presentation bit is over, now you've now got 40 final minutes for two-way questions which presents an opportunity to ask more questions that they really can't prepare well for... I always include these in my second round, and you'll be amazed by what you learn!

1.?Given what you understand about the responsibilities of the role...

"Everyone has parts of a job they move towards, and parts they move away from. What parts of a role like this give you energy that you're probably good at, and enjoy doing? What parts of the job would we expect to see you move towards naturally?"

You also want to know what they're going to avoid. "What parts do you naturally move away from that take energy from you, that you don't enjoy?". I promise you they'll avoid these parts of the role, especially if under stress or pressure. How big an issue are the answers for you? Do they move away from a big part of the role? If so..?red flag.???

2.?Where are you really strong?

You're looking for where they can provide deeper coaching with their team, where they'll be excellent at solving problems, where they can show other people "how" it's done. Where can you have confidence they'll dive deep and solve technical issues when required?

3.?What areas do you need support in?

No-one is excellent at everything. You want to know where you'll need to provide resources (that you may or may not have in the business) to help them succeed. Note?some of these may require further investment by you. For example, if they were an experienced Project Manager but hate doing business analysis as they're just not good at it, expect to have to get a Business Analyst quick smart to help them be effective. Sometimes when we hire expensive resources, we have to then double down on that investment by adding resources to help them succeed.

4. What would have to happen to make you leave a role?

No-one's ever been asked this. I promise. They'll do a double-take. Repeat it, but then zip it. Do not speak, leave space for them to answer.

The reason they give you will typically be?the reason they left the very last role they were in. If the "conflict" or the reason they left is something that's likely to come up in your organisation, then this is a red flag.???

Always feel free to say "tell me more about that". You want to know what their sensitive areas are, how resilient they are and what their personal "deal-breakers" are. This is an area you need to understand as this is a hot spot or trigger for them and it may, or may not, be reasonable. They might be flighty and run as soon as things get difficult.

5.?What would then have to happen to make you stay?

"If (the answer to the previous question)?did?happen after you started, what would have to happen to make you stay?"

Some may say - "nothing could make me stay". Some will say "I'd raise the issue with my boss, we'd work on it, if we couldn't resolve it - then I'd leave". Or something else!

You want to understand around whether they run for the hills at the first sign of problems, or whether they stay and work things through. Those who run and say "if that trigger happens, I'm out of here" are a risk.. it means you'll always feel like you're on eggshells with them, worried they'll leave if something gets a little hard.

Look back at their resume, if they were one of the "job hoppers" who change roles every 12-18 months and then leave for a relatively innocuous reason... and they don't stay to work on it when things get hard? Red flag.???

6.?Does anything make you nervous about joining us?

Flesh out any objections or concerns they have about the job.

If you don't, they'll still have those concerns after you've made your offer and some won't talk them through with you, they'll just decide based on the concerns so you'll have had no chance to address or discuss them.

Always find out their concerns, and talk them through.

7.?You've now had time to think about the role a little more, what other questions do you have for us?

Again, you want to see how much they want this job. If they have no questions... red flag.. this is their opportunity to really test and interview you. If they feel like a passenger in the process and have no further questions..???

Supplementary tools

Usually between 1st and 2nd interview, or after the 2nd but before reference checks, I'd do some supplementary validation and extra insight. If you're hiring a 150-250k role - I'd highly recommend at least some psychometrics to better understand.

• Skills and simulation tests?- you can test someone with a numeric, reasoning, excel, financial acumen or similar-test. What you test is completely role dependent - but most of the things you're wondering if they can do, can be tested. Remember to leverage your setup for the second stage presentation and interview to test skills that you consider critical.
• Psychometric assessment?- SHL is a top global provider in this space, but there are many others. These survey-and-report style tests can give you great insight into their working preferences, fit with the role, with your culture, your leadership style and more.
• Reference checks?- if you're the boss and you're hiring a senior role,?please?don't leave this to your HR team. Make sure you call the previous boss and get a feel for the tone of the response. I'd encourage you to ask something like (after a bit of warm up and rapport building), "Hey... level with me from CEO to CEO... what do I need to know, what do I need to watch out for, what are their weaknesses, what do they need to succeed?". You'll learn a lot if you listen closely to the tone and ask them to level with you.

A Final Word on the Current Employment Climate

I know you think you don't have time for all this. Candidates are moving super fast. They're accepting multiple roles and then just choosing the best one and dropping the rest. It's a hard market, no question at all!

BUT....

If you're hiring a 150k+ role - I would?NEVER?skip a second interview where they are forced to present as otherwise you're taking a huge gamble. The time and money wasted with a poor senior hire is immense. Don't risk it. I promise you'll learn a huge amount about whether they're just a professional interviewer who can nail any first interview (many can), or whether they're really got the skills and character you want. You'll find out pretty quickly when they start presenting!

If you thought this information was helpful, please share and add to the conversation by telling us your favourite questions in an interview.