Transcript of TraceTrust LinkedIn Live with Kathleen Casanova

[00:00:00] Rhiannon Woo: Good morning and welcome to TraceTrust Live. Each month our CEO Merril Gilbert and her guest will hold a 30 minute conversation. Topics are centered around adapting leadership for resiliency, building food systems for a changing future, and creating safe and reliable experiences with cannabis and other active ingredients.

Merril is a provocative thought leader in the future of food and cannabis and consumable innovation. A visionary connector, enthusiastic about change. Merril believed in using available resources to lead healthier and more resilient lives. As co-founder and CEO of Trace Trust, Merril provides strategic guidance to innovators, disruptors, and refiners, and has guided new and has guided numerous startups from concept to customer for over two decades.

Kathleen is the founding executive director of Project Potluck where she in, where she ensures a more colorful and flavorful CPG industry by supporting people of color as they build successful companies and careers. Today, Merril and Kathleen will chat about resilience, resourcefulness, and the three types of critical capital needed for success.

Discover how community building can level the p, the paving field. Oh my gosh, I cannot talk today. Discovered how community building can level the playing field and create more inclusive and supportive industries. All right, ladies, turning it over to you.

[00:01:16] Merril Gilbert: Thank you Rhiannon. Welcome, Kathleen. I'm so excited about this conversation.

We've known each other for several months now and we've had some really wonderful, impactful ways of learning about what we each do, but I've been so excited to participate in the past with some of the events that you've had and hosted, and it's great to be able to reciprocate and have you here.

You know, I want you to just, you know, I'm going to ask the first question, but I want you also just to take a minute to tell us just a little bit more than just that little brief bio about how this all came to be, what you do and why Project Potluck is so important. Because the topic of the day is, why do people of color have to be more resilient and more resourceful?

And it really kind of was the foundation of what this work is about that you do. So if you could take a second and tell us, I would just love to start off there.

[00:02:12] Kathleen Casanova: Yeah. Well thank you for having me, Merril. I'm excited to be here. So I am the Executive Director of Project Potluck and Project Potluck is a nonprofit that is committed to supporting people of color in the CPG industry.

As of now, we are almost 900 members, all people of color who are both career professionals and entrepreneurs who are in that space and we provide them with community access to industry leaders, access to mentorship, opportunities, resources, and really a safe place in an industry where they're underrepresented.

We were started and founded by our three board members who are all people of color and leaders in the CPG industry, and. They really came together. They wanted to create something. It was actually quite informal, very grassroots. They wanted to create something that they wished they had had access to when they were on their own, on early entrepreneurial journeys.

And so they put the word out, they kind of leveraged their networks, and the response was really overwhelming. It was very clear that people in our community, people of color, and CPG, while we are underrepresented, we exist and we really, really value that connection with one another. And having a place that's really feels like ours in an industry that is often we're one or just a few people of color in a room.

So after that huge response, our board decided to become a nonprofit and make this a, a permanent fixture in the industry so that more people have access to what we're offering and, and every person of color knows that. There's a place for them to be a part of this community.

Oh, Merril, I can't hear you. I think you're on mute.

[00:03:55] Merril Gilbert: You know what, when I mute myself, I sound so much better. Anyways, but more importantly, you know, in the introduction, even Rhiannon mentioned part of this conversation, right? And that is about critical capital, and I'd like you to talk about what that is and then why there's three types of this that, that you focus on.

[00:04:14] Kathleen Casanova: Yeah, I mean, one way that I like to think about kind of the approach of project potluck is that entrepreneurs, people of color and all industries face a lot of barriers for entry to success. You know, some of them are a lot the same in every industry, and some of them are a little different. But one way to kind of think about it is to talk about three types of capital that are essential for a successful business.

And there are specific barriers for each of those, for people of color. So the three types of capital are social, financial, and human. And so financial's really easy, I think, for people to understand. It's access to capital, it's access to a bank loan, it's access to a credit card.

People of color, I mean, there's statistics after statistics that show that it's more difficult not only for us to get VC funding, in which we get about one to 2% a year of all VC funding, which is abysmal. But that's like, you have to get there. You have to be a big enough business to even be able to get in front of a, of a firm. We're talking, getting a business loan, we're talking about getting a credit card. These are, they're huge barriers for people of color. In those financial aspects, which are really essential to building a business. We know how expensive CPG it is to have a CPG company and to even get to a place where you can start to have like, you know, more strategic investment.

So that's financial capital. There are a lot of barriers there. There's also human capital, which is, you know how a lot of companies are successful is through their professional experiences and their professional network. So if somebody has the privilege of taking an unpaid internship which a lot of people of color and people in low income areas don't have the ability to do if people went to a certain type of university and had a certain type of experience where they have access to a whole professional network that is, you know, really essential to business in a lot of cases and, and is a good indicator of success. And again, there are barriers to entry for people of color. And then finally, social capital.

The way that I like to think of social capital is it's actually, one way that I heard it described is it's the glue of society and it's also the lubricant. So it also enables us to make change and to do incredible things. And that is really about connections that you have with people around you. And you know, there are barriers for people of color with social capital, but that's also an area where, we can actually make a lot of change.

And Project Potluck directly connects people so that they begin to have social capital with one another. And we also begin to address some of these other capital barriers as well. So I, you know, a person of color, I don't think it, it's going to be a new conversation to say that, you know, every time they approach something, you know, all entrepreneurs might have a journey where they get a lot of no’s or they work really hard, but that's going to be multiplied significantly for people of color.

So as difficult as all entrepreneurs’ journeys are, we are really hearing that for people of color not only is it isolating and can it be, you know, challenging in, in all of those ways that it is to be the only person in the room to be a, a ceiling, you know, breaker and all those things. But it's also, they're very, very tangible barriers that make it more difficult for them to even get to a place where they can be successful.

[00:07:47] Merril Gilbert: Do they, you know, can you give an example of how Project Potluck creates that social network? How do people interact with each other? How do they find each other?

[00:07:55] Kathleen Casanova: Yeah, so I think what's really cool is social capital is actually something that is very frequently built among people of color, especially immigrant communities.

If you think about, you know, I, I come from two very strong immigrant families and we ended, like my mom ended up going to this. Her family ended up coming from Lebanon to a really tiny town in Louisiana. Because there's a huge community of Lebanese people there who are like, oh, if you come here, I can help you set your business up. I can help you do this. Like, you know, it's, it's a very, you know, incredible, it's an incredible thing that's been going on for generations.

And in the CPG industry, what we see is that, you know, people of color exist, but they're very isolated. So one might be in a company over here, one might be starting a company over here, and it just, there hasn't been a place where people can get access to one another easily.

So what we're so proud of at Project Potluck is that now there's a community where if you can join, you join for free, you have access to, you know, our growing membership, we're hoping to be at 1500 by the end of the year, where there's kind of this unspoken rule that if somebody reaches out to you, who's another person of color through the Project Potluck portal, you're going to get a response.

So, you know, our board members who are very, very successful, they take calls all the time from people who just want to pick their brain. Even competitors who are side by side on a shelf, we often see that they help each other because we really believe in like this rising tide theory that everybody, the industry is better, the industry is better for us, and we can do more incredible work.

And there's enough for everybody when we help each other and when we can all kind of share what we've learned, share our experiences, and help make everybody stronger. So Project Potluck is a community that's virtual because we're national, we're across the country. So you can join, you can have immediate access to our online portal where you can get connected to others and join in on conversations, get access to all of our programming and webinars and our trainings. And then we also come together in person. Most recently we were at Expo West where we had a huge event. Over 200 people were there and got to be together in community and in fellowship, which was really special.

[00:10:10] Merril Gilbert: That is amazing and, and so needed and wonderful that it's there and that it's growing. I mean, such a important time for this. So we're talking about community building, right? And how people come together. And in this particular instance, for this entire group, it's about leveling the playing field, right? And creating more resilience. That's the topic of our, our conversation is, you know, it's, never has it been so important to use this word about resiliency, right? In our personal selves, in those that we support around us and in the bigger community. So talk a little bit about how that all comes together.

I know you just mentioned this, but just if you can maybe share a story or two where it's really impacted something or, or really transformed, I would love to hear that.

[00:11:07] Kathleen Casanova: Yeah, I mean, you know, a lot of our programming, to your point about leveling the playing field, is a lot of our program, I mean, all of our programming is just for people of color and a lot of it is focused on education, but also access.

I mean, there's all of the CPG is you don't go to college and graduate with a degree in knowing how to run a CPG company. I mean, so much of this is learned on the job. It's learned through mentorship, it's learned through networks, it's learned through sharp learning curves oftentimes where you fail, and you lose money and you have to get back on the horse.

And so for us, we're trying to make all of that information just more accessible and less kind of locked up in these old boy networks, honestly. So, you know, an example of that is our mentorship program, which we're really proud of. We're entering into our third year of that where we have put almost 300 people through that program where we match small groups of our community with mentors that are industry leaders and people who are willing to not just share advice, but really open doors be true sponsors, be true advocates for this community.

And what we see is, you know, a really incredible sharing where yes, you know, our community is getting information and access and all of these important things for leveling the playing field, but mentors are also having incredible access to these upcoming leaders and future leaders of CPG.

And so there's this real amazing reciprocity that happens, which is kind of at the core of everything that we do, is there's not one, you know, industry leaders don't just say, oh, I have all the answers here they are. They also have needs. And so the more that we can identify how we can share and what we need from one another and get better at asking for that, I think just the better the industry can be in general.

And a lot of this kind of information and secret gated you know, kind of work can be unlocked. So our mentorship program is a great example. We also have our, you know, learning series, our webinars, which we, this year we're focused on retail and on capital. Because those are two really big things to unlock.

They're also very mysterious topics that, again, it's like the wizard of oz, like what's behind the curtain? Who do I talk to? How do I navigate this? So we have, you know, retailers, we have people from VC firms, private equity firms, family offices different, you know, angel investors come and talk about, you know, what they're looking for, how to navigate that world that they're in, but also then have breakout sessions where you meet with them and there's a relationship that begins to be built with a retail buyer or with somebody at a investment firm.

So again, we're not just trying to just give information, we're just trying, we're, we're in addition to that, we're trying to make sure that there's access and that these doors are being opened. With partners who are really, really committed to changing the industry. So we're very selective about who we invite to that and make sure that, you know, their values really aligned with ours.

[00:14:11] Merril Gilbert: Recently, you were in another conversation and it was about, and it, this is not something you and I talked about, but I know it's something you're, you're well versed. And that is in allies, right? How, how. How can we be better allies in supporting communities, you know, and it's not just about donations and writing checks and volunteering, right?

It, there's, there's a level of integrity and connection. So tell, can you talk a little bit about that? I know I didn't ask that earlier, but it, it is something that you and I have talked about personally.

[00:14:49] Kathleen Casanova: Yeah. No, I, it's so important. This is what everybody wants to know. I mean, I think most people are on board with like being anti-racist, right? Like that's not, I mean, hopefully most people aren’t, but I think there's like a disconnect between, I want to do this and how do I do this? So a lot of what we get from people is like, just give me like a handbook. I want to do this. And it's a little more complicated than that. It's ongoing work.

It's not going to change unfortunately anytime soon. But, it's like that constant commitment that's going to kind of change the tides. So there's a couple things. First, I do want to mention that Project Potluck is I'm a person of color. I'm the only staff member, so our whole staff is people of color. Me and then our board. So we're led by people of color. We're four people of color and I think a lot of times allies want to center themselves in the solution, but really there's incredible people in community that are doing this work and figuring out how to support them financially with volunteerism is a super important part of this because I think a lot of times there's this impulse to like, I'm going to create my own programmer, I'm going to do this.

But really there's people in the community, from the community who are already doing this work, and one of the best things that you can do is support their efforts instead of trying to duplicate or, or like even create some sort of a like, you know, scarcity because there's only so much that can be done in the field and everybody's doing it.

So I think that's one of the biggest things, is to find amazing people of color in the community who are doing important work and figure out how to support them. So that's the first thing. I think the second really important thing goes back to this concept of reciprocity, which is again, not centering yourself as the solution.

But really thinking of yourself as like a part of a bigger system. And so reciprocity is about giving and receiving. And so you can't really be a true ally if you think that you are just going to be giving, giving, giving. You have all the answers. You are going to be a, you're going to be the mentor that tells people how to do things.

You really have to open yourself up to like what you need to learn and what you are kind of seeking and enter into a, a reciprocal experience with somebody. So I think a good example of this is, you know, and I use this example often. I read it in a book and I can't remember the author, so I need to figure out how to give her credit.

But like Juneteenth is coming up. It's a great time of year to kind of reflect on privilege. I think a lot of white people are uncomfortable with how to celebrate Juneteenth. A lot of them get the day off now, which is great, but it's an awesome time once a year to take stock of all of your privilege and to figure out how you can start to transfer some of that privilege over.

So if you're a person who has the privilege of walking into the boardroom and feeling pretty comfortable, saying your opinion, how can you start to shift that over? Maybe when the mic gets passed to you, you can say, oh, you know, who always has an amazing, you know, perspective. I'd love to hear from, you know, X.

Like, would you like to share or give credit to somebody, or kind of start to realize like, oh, I have this amazing privilege and, and confidence in talking, but maybe somebody else doesn't. How can I start to create more equity? Maybe you're asked to be on panels frequently and you say, you know, I'd really love to be on that panel, but I'd rather give my spot to this person.

Or, I won't be on that panel until this person joins us. Or, I'd love to join your board, but if you want to bring me on, you need to create another, you need to create another board seat and needs to be filled with a person of color. So starting to figure out how you can take what's happening, like what your, what your privilege is in being able to figure out how to share that or open up doors for others accordingly.

Maybe you have an amazing network and relationships. How can you open that up to people of color? Is something as simple as like if you, if you have a brand or a entrepreneur, who's a person of color who you think is doing amazing work, offer to walk the floor at expo with them, offer to make an introduction to them.

I mean, there's just, there's so much, but not coming in it from a like savior standpoint as like, I'm going to do so much for you, but also figure out how you can begin to have a true reciprocal relationship where you're learning, you know, maybe, maybe you're asking for help too, because there's so much to unlock from both sides.

And those like power dynamics of like hierarchy. Prevent us from having that reciprocity oftentimes.

[00:19:29] Merril Gilbert: Are you seeing I mean, clearly, you know, we work with a lot of women. We are women. We're a women owned company. You know, we, and women obviously, particularly when they're fundraising, have a harder time not only accessing capital, but they're often hesitant to ask for what they need.

Yes. And I think that, you know, a lot of what you're touching on in this community building and resiliency has to come from our own issues, not issues I, I don't want to use that word, but our own, you know, hesitancy. To be seen and present. So is that something also you're seeing in particular when we talk about advisors versus a mentor, you know, how is there any behind the scenes coaching when you're, you're handing off and making those connections to a mentor and a mentee to kind of help them elevate that conversation and be more successful?

[00:20:27] Kathleen Casanova: Yeah, I mean, we talk a lot about imposter syndrome, which women, you know, imposter syndrome is generally used to describe people of color and women, which is problematic in and of itself because it's really not like, oh, we're so insecure. It's that we've been kind of conditioned by society to believe that anytime we're being critical, bring being critical thinkers or kind of questioning something that that's a flaw and it's actually not. That's actually a huge resource. And so I think it's important to kind of, first of all, when you're feeling imposter syndrome, to recognize that, like that's really a societal thing.

And it, those conditions that have created that are not like, are problematic and really the society needs to be resolved, not like women's confidence. So I, or like people of color in women's confidence. So I think like that's something really important to reframe. I can share an article that kind of talks about this.

I, I'm pretty sure it's Forbes who talks about like women and people, like marginalized society and, and and imposter center. But I'm getting off topic. More to your question, I think part of that just comes from, I mean, it's sad, but understanding that the, the, the, the playing field isn't level and that there is kind of a, a steeper climb but kind of buckling up for that and being surrounded by others who have successfully navigated that and really having support, I think is so critical. So it's not an easy answer. I think it's more just like being aware that that's, like that's a very unfortunate societal kind of condition and kind of equipping yourself for that journey in the right way.

To your point, like the, the playing field isn't level, but we can kind of start to stack our resources and our tools and the people on our bench to help make sure that we're prepared and equipped for that journey.

[00:22:26] Merril Gilbert: Well, and we all say that luck is really not luck. It's really being prepared for the moment that it shows up and, and you're ready for it. So anything we can do for that. I know that Rhiannon's going to jump in here any minute, so I want to like spend the last couple of seconds and just let you share with us what you're very, you know, optimistic about and what's inspiring you to close out what you want us to take away and those resources when you share them with us, we will make sure that it gets out when we post this, this video for further reference.

[00:22:56] Kathleen Casanova: Yeah. Well, just, if anybody's excited about Project Potluck as a person of color, they can join, become a member for free. And if you want to support us, you can donate, you can volunteer, you can kind of as a, as a potential mentor for our community. Join our webinar series. There's a lot of ways to get involved and just stay in touch with us or just support some of the businesses in our community and make sure that they're getting your dollars, they're in your pantry, they're in your fridge, and that you're spreading the word about what they're doing.

That's some of the biggest work that you can do as an ally. So thank you so much for having me. I'll share these resources with everybody so that they can kind of get to know more about us if they'd like.

[00:23:33] Merril Gilbert: So grateful you can make this time and to be with me in this conversation today.

And I know you're going to want to say a few words and, and probably wanted to jump in at any moment when we were actually talking.

[00:23:45] Rhiannon Woo: Yeah, no, I just wanted to say thank you again to Kathleen for coming on this month. I did want to say that you know, there's definitely on the subject of reciprocity and what the more successful business leaders who may or may not be people of color get from participating with like earlier.

People on their earlier journey is really about that, that diversity of thought process, diversity of opinion, because you know, one of the things that we see, and it's pretty seen everywhere is that as you get that more siloed, everyone around you has the same experience. Everyone around you has the same wealth access.

Everyone around you have the same educational background. Your diversity of possibility gets smaller and smaller. And no matter where you are in your journey, the more voices, the more diverse your community is, the more diverse areas that you see. The broader sense of opinion you have, the broader your world is.

So it's really about broadening your worldview, which is something that helps society, not just in your CPG entrepreneurial journey, but your personal life, your spiritual life. The more you broaden your worldview, the better off everyone is. So thank you so much for Kathleen's time here. I love this conversation.

I did want to jump in so many times, but that's, I'm, I'm busy over here producing the show. So Merril, any final words before I give the sign off?

[00:25:12] Merril Gilbert: This has been another wonderful conversation, and as I said before, I'm very grateful for, you know, getting to know you, Kathleen, being a supporter of Project Potluck, and you know, Rhiannon and I are always here for your community anyway, we can support you, so thank you again.

[00:25:29] Kathleen Casanova: Well, thank you. I've experienced your support firsthand. We're so grateful for it as our, as our community, and I look forward to many more, you know, great conversations about how we can make the industry better.

[00:25:41] Rhiannon Woo: Fantastic. Thank you. All right. And with that I will say thank you to our audience as well.

We go live on the third Friday of every month. If you know someone who should be joining our conversation, feel free to reach out to us on LinkedIn or through our website at tracetrust.com. And until next month go out there and do awesome stuff everyone. Bye bye.