Transcript: Glennon Doyle on presence in difficult moments

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This episode of Hello Monday, "Glennon Doyle on presence in difficult moments," was first released in April, 2021.

Jessi Hempel: Hey, it's Jessi. Last year, just as we were going into the pandemic, I had Glennon Doyle on the show. She had just launched her book. I had gone to one of her only in-person events, and we talked about everything that was about to happen for her. It's crazy to think about now, given that her book has been a wild bestseller, a runaway hit, she didn't know that then. This week, the Hello Monday team is off on vacation, but I'm dipping into the archives to bring you Glennon Doyle.?

From the editorial team at LinkedIn, I'm Jessi Hempel, and this is Hello Monday, our show about the changing nature of work and how that work is changing us.?

So on the second Monday in March, I went to the launch for Glennon Doyle's new book, Untamed. It was this magical night. We were inside this church in Brooklyn Heights. It was packed. Glennon had written about falling in love with their wife, the soccer player, Abby Wambach, and she's been on the show actually. Anyhow, that night she was sitting in the first row and there were people up in the bleachers everywhere. And as Glennon walked into center stage, they erupted in applause. It was meant to be the first event in Glennon's national book tour. And I remember the date exactly, March 9, because it was the last time in 2020 that I would gather in real life, in a room full of people, anywhere. Two days later, Glennon canceled the tour.

There are so many people like Glennon, people who are scheduled to have their big debut, their TED talk, their opening night, their album release. And at Hello Monday, it's got us thinking, where does this year's art go? So this is the first of a two part series. And we'll throw in a couple of bonus episodes as well. I talked to a bunch of creative people about how they're getting by what happens to all that work, and what's changing for them now in the midst of this pandemic. To start, I called Glennon to ask her about canceling her tour.

Glennon Doyle: Everything feels like a vortex now so I don't know, but, um, this would have been early on. We didn't know, we were on the road and people were still saying, like, is it dangerous to be out? Like, should we be out? Should we be gathering? Um, there had been no sheltered places, none of this yet. And I just, I was sitting in a hotel room, I guess it was the night after I saw you all. 'Cause I was in one more place, I was in Nashville. And, um, we got off the stage at Nashville and every day, you know, people were bringing me more information about what could come down the road. Everyone was doing the best they could, to gather information. And the general thought of our team was okay, we'll do, like, two or three more and then we'll go home. And Abby and I were actually in our room and I was sitting in bed and I kept saying to her, I mean, I was just in a pity party, man.?

I have these two selves, right? So I have a self that is a leader and knows what to do, and is putting other people's needs ahead of my own, and sees clearly. And then there is a full 'nother, a whole nother self that is, like, I am heartbroken over my thing. And why is it so unfair? And I, I was in that place, right? That's the self I usually save for my wife (laughing)...

Jessi Hempel: (laughing)

Glennon Doyle: … And I remember saying the words to her, "I cannot believe this is happening. Untamed is the most important, beautiful thing I have ever made in my creative life, and now this." And something about hearing those words come out of my mouth made me realize, oh, that's not true at all. The most beautiful, important work I've ever made is this community of people that I am now possibly putting at risk by asking them to come here about this other thing that I made, right??

So even though it was kind of an early call to cancel it all at that point, it was, like, clear. I've just had all of these times in my career, this, it happened to me last time. Like, when I was launching Love Warrior, I had to announce my divorce two weeks before the launching of that book, which was a, an epic marriage redemption story…?

Jessi Hempel: I remember that.

Glennon Doyle: … Like…?

(both laughing)

Glennon Doyle: … My agents and publishers are like, just stop publishing things, just stop because everything falls apart. So, um, so, so, it was similar only in that it was a hard decision to make, but also very simple once we got it down to the root of the things, which is what's more important, the book or the community.

Jessi Hempel: In the moment that must've been a really hard decision to make.

Glennon Doyle: I think a lot of us are walking this, um, two selves, right? Like, the self that can see how much harder some other people have it and can worry about the world and can think about how much we have to be grateful for, in terms of what some other people are experiencing. And then there are the selves that is, are just heartbroken over projects that we thought we would launch, over weddings that we thought we'd have, uh, graduations. I mean, my friends have their little babies that they've raised since they were little and all their graduation things are canceled.?

Like, I think it's an important time to honor the and/both of that. That it is okay for us to be heartbroken over our things while also maintaining this consciousness, that things are harder there.

Jessi Hempel: I love the way you say that Glennon, because I've been thinking so much and talking to my own friends over the last couple of weeks, just about how sad people are. And we don't want to talk about that part. We wanna race to the doing, and there's a lot of doing to be done. But it's also really important to just sit for a moment with the fact that this is really sad for a lot of people and it's hard to hold that.

Glennon Doyle: It's so sad. And I think there's a double thing going on. So, I think we're really sad because of what's going on out in the world. And I think we're also really sad because many of us, most of us kind of use activity and busy-ness as a distraction, and now we're all, it's like, we're snow globes, you know, we just keep ourselves shaken up. But now we have this, like, collective forced settling that it reminds me very much of early recovery when I was getting sober. It's just, like, all your distractions are gone and you're left with the thing you were trying to distract yourself from in the first place, which is, like, your own self and your own humanity and, and the truth of life, which is that we are always very vulnerable, right? That we have control over nothing, that in the end of the day, all we really have is ourself and our people.?

So I just think it's a double thing. I think we're scared and, and, and sad because of the world. But I think we're also sort of in this detox, like forced detox of distraction, and that's leaving us with all of what Pema Ch?dr?n would call our hot loneliness…?

Jessi Hempel: Right.

Glennon Doyle: … right?

Jessi Hempel: I love that you said that Glennon because no joke, the passage that I highlighted that I wanted to talk about with you from this book, if it's okay, I'll just read it?

Glennon Doyle: Yeah, yeah.

Jessi Hempel: And this is from your new book, Untamed.?

"We're like snow globes. We spend all of our time, energy, words, and money creating a flurry, trying not to know. Making sure that the snow doesn't settle. So we never have to face the fiery truth inside us, solid and unmoving. The relationship is over. The wine is winning. The pills aren't for back pain anymore. He's never coming back. That book won't write itself. The move is the only way. Quitting this job will save my life. It is abuse. You never grieved him. It's been six months since we made love. Spending a lifetime hating her is no life at all. We keep ourselves shaken up because there are dragons in our center."?

It's beautiful.

Glennon Doyle: That's so wild that you chose that one, what on earth.

(both laughing)

Jessi Hempel: I know, but, at just, that's the moment that we're in, right? It's the great settling and for myself, I have to think that after the settling comes the remembering that there's some deep remembering of my humanity and my connection to my family. It sounds sort of beautiful when I say it like that, but right now it's just frustrating. They're getting on my nerves. They're in the other room, I'm currently in the bedroom closet so that I could have space from them. But there is a thing that comes after that.

Glennon Doyle: First the pain, and then there's some waiting and frustration. And then there's this rising...

Jessi Hempel: Yeah.

Glenno Doyle: … I think that if what's in the center of that snow globe is our humanity. Then that's a really good thing for us to remember, right? Even if it's a forced remembering, even if it's disastrous in some other ways, I do believe. I mean, I, as a human being who has experienced rock bottom many times, there is something that comes after it that is new and, um, different and has always been better...

Jessi Hempel: Mmm-hmm.

Glennon Doyle: … for me in my life. And I am not Pollyanna about this. I mean, people are really losing. People are really hurting. People are in pain, and there's this other thing that I believe is going to happen. I think we're gonna come out of this more connected and more tender and more human than we went into it.

Jessi Hempel: Coming up after the break, Glennon talks about how we help each other.?

(podcast ad break)

Jessi Hempel: Okay back to Glennon, Glennon's been writing for and to a vibrant community for more than a decade, eight years ago, she founded a nonprofit called Together Rising. She wanted to channel all that energy into helping others. And everyone has an opportunity to get involved.

Glennon Doyle: Jessi, I was obsessed at the time with flash mobs. I just freaking loved the metaphor of all of these people walking around, disconnected from each other. And then one person just starts dancing, like, wildly and with joy and freedom. And then some other fool does it too. And then, then they all know the choreography. And then it's this huge, joyful collective moment, right??

So my idea was to just turn the whole world into a flash mob with this giving thing. We launched it with a model like a flash mob in that we're gonna start dancing here with joy as if we belong to each other as if we are community who's got each other. And then we're gonna ask everybody else to start dancing by giving. But the rule is that nobody's allowed to give more than $25, right??

And that was so important to me and still is because I just wanted this idea of giving as being something that only really rich people do, or only, like, you can only make a difference if you're this or you're that I just wanted that to go away and to, kind of, democratize the idea that nobody's gonna jump in and save us here. This is about each one of us doing our little things in our homes. And so now, I mean, I think we're, I think we're up to $25 million and the average donation is still $28.

Jessi Hempel: Particularly in this moment, when a lot of us are in our houses, we can't actually see our neighbors let alone really help our neighbors. If we try to come through for our neighbors physically, we may be causing them danger because we could be passing…?

Glennon Doyle: Mmm-hmm, that's true.?

Jessi Hempel: … the virus. I think we're hungry for ways to somehow feel like we can come together around giving. So what's Together Rising doing now?

Glennon Doyle: It feels like we kind of built the ark before the flood…?

(both laughing)

Glennon Doyle: … Like, we have spent the last 10 years, we've done a lot of big, huge projects, which people see about like the reunited families at the border and the refugee crisis and all that. That's what we get a lot of media for. But most of our time is actually spent just one at a time when people write to us and we meet the needs of women and children in their homes, all of, or without homes all over the world. So we're used to this, like, one first responder thing, one at a time thing. So we have the systems in place now to help people, um, who are suffering, whose families are suffering because of the coronavirus. And, um, those are flooding like flooding.?

More than ever we need people who can to come to Together Rising and donate what they can. Because, you know, we have an incredible system where, um, we are so lucky that we have a few donors that pay our administrative costs so that every penny that's given to Together Rising by individual or donors go directly to families in need. If your family needs help, come and ask for help.?

Like, I am a person who has only survived to because of the help of strangers. Like, as a recovering addict, as a young mother, I have, I mean I have never, ever been afraid to ask for help. I want people to um, use this time to depend on the kindness of strangers, right? So first I want people to turn to Together Rising if they need help. And second, if people have extra come to Together Rising, give your extra to support those who are being brave enough to ask for help right now.

Jessi Hempel: Sort of a lot like what my church does in my local community, where we throw into the offering plate and where especially recently the religious figures have come forward to be like, ask for it if you need it…?

Glennon Doyle: Mmm-hmm.

Jessi Hempel: … except Glennon that you're just figuring out how to do it virtually at scale.

Glennon Doyle: That's what I'm grateful for, that we've figured out the system already.

Jessi Hempel: So let's talk a little bit about the tour and what the tour meant and what it means for the, the project itself that you can't do it.

Glennon Doyle: Well, it means a lot of things. I mean, the way this works is that writers, we spend years coming up with these ideas that we're so desperate to get out to people, right? And then we write them and pour them out and drafts and drafts and drafts, and they become this book. And then, this whole other part starts. I have a team of people, mine's all women. Um, and they all have their expertise in their areas, and they plan and plan. And this group of women who were launching Untamed, I mean, they lived and breathed. They believed in this message. They believe in this message so much that they spent all of their hearts and energy planning the launch of this book.?

So a launch would include all the different events, right? So we had a tour, I think we had 11 dates sold out 18,000 people were coming to this tour. Um, I worked for six months. I have massive anxiety. So one of the ways that I control my anxiety or pretend to control my anxiety is that I like to appear on stage. Like, I'm just talking, like, I'm just thinking of things off the top of my head.

Jessi Hempel: That's totally how I read it when I saw you.

Glennon Doyle: Right, I memorize every single word that I say for 40 minutes, so…?

Jessi Hempel: Are you kidding?

Glennon Doyle: … No. Jessi I, every single word that I said on stage in New York is on a document that is whatever, 6,000 words long. I record it over and over again into my phone so that I can, so I love how the cadence of every single sentence sounds. So I probably record it. I don't know, 20 times then I spend the next month listening to it over in sections. I listen to it so many times that it burns, like neural pathways in my mind and I can't not. And I can't forget it. This is the process that I go through to give. Not for every speech, but, like, my book tour speech that I'm like, okay, these people that I love are taking time out of their day, their busy, busy lives to come sit. I want to do the best possible thing that I can do for them.?

But I'm just telling you that this is the process I went to, to, this wasn't like, "Hey, I'll go show up on stage and say some words," right? Authors I feel, you know, if we, I publish a book once every five years, not much, that's it, like, I can't do it faster than that, 'cause I feel like I never want to write a new book until I've become a new person. And that takes awhile.

Jessi Hempel: Glennon, uh, let me stop you there, um…?

Glennon Doyle: Yeah.

Jessi Hempel: … Do you write the book over the course of five years or does the book come out in like a fever dream within a week and a half?

Glennon Doyle: Oh, wouldn't that be lovely?

Jessi Hempel: Wouldn't it be great?

Glennon Doyle: No, I've, I've never had that, sort of, fever dream. I have heard from some authors that they do and I don't like those authors at all. It is not like that for me. It's when I'm, when I'm in the process of writing a book, I'm usually getting up at about 4:30 in the morning because I don't know anything, anything smart after 11:00 AM.

Jessi Hempel: Coming back to the tour. So you decide that it really can't go on, um…

Glennon Doyle: Mmm-hmm.?

Jessi Hempel: … what does it mean for the business of the book? I mean, if you're launching one of these every five years, it's pretty critical to your career, right?

Glennon Doyle: Yeah, uh, it's everything, you know. I mean, we were, it's kind of like if you think of it as, like, a singer. You know, they go away, they make their art and then they spend however many months launching that thing into the world. And during that time we're exposed a lot. We are on shows, which is never easy for a writer. It is not an easy time because most of us are introverts. Most of us start writing so we don't have to talk to people…?

Jessi Hempel: Right.

Glennon Doyle: … Right, so this idea that you have to make, you make your art and then you have to go become a commercial for your art is very strange. It's a whole separate skill that you have to learn to talk about what you've just written. So, it's, it's the time that not only is your book being published, but you are out there reminding people that you exist in the world, which will then create opportunities, which will get you through the next five years while you write your next thing, right? Hopefully. Yeah, so in many ways, this thing is, kind of, devastating to an artist's path. The tour being canceled was one thing that wasn't the biggest thing I mean, Amazon is not shipping books, right now…?

Jessi Hempel: Oh my gosh. You know what? I really did not think about that.

Glennon Doyle: … Yesterday morning, I was on the phone with my team and they were crying. Like these are grown, bad-ass women. This, the trauma that people are in right now and then trying to keep their jobs going. So we'll spend, you know, a week, like okay, so how can we keep getting this message out online? Right? We can keep this going online. And then we wake up at, Amazon's not shipping, like…?

Jessi Hempel: Yeah, yeah.

Glennon Doyle: ... (laughing) I can't apparently beat a global pandemic. There is a moment where you just realize, okay, what I have known deeply for the last week is I have to stop caring about my book for a little while. Like, I will, I love it so much. I believe it has a destiny. I believe it will help people. But right now what my community needs for me is for me to show up and just be a voice of comfort and safety and hope. So that's what I'm doing. I think that everybody who is doing any sort of project in the world right now realizes that, that what's happening right now. It's causing this huge shift where everything is falling away, all of our plans, all of that stuff.?

And it's just like, okay, how can we show up for each other right now, not our product, not our, whatever. Like, how can we really connect and get people through the trauma of this? What, if you do the next true, the next right thing? Eventually it all comes right. I, I believe that 100%. So yes, the entire launch of what was supposed to be my great work is screwed. But it's also in the hands of a lot of people who are at the most fearful points right now, and it's helping them, like, it's actually helping them through this time. And that to me is a, is a huge, it's huge.

Jessi Hempel: Yeah. You know, you said earlier about Together Rising that in some ways you had built the ark, um, before the flood. Thank God. But in some ways you've also done that with your digital presence Glennon, in that for a lot of artists, when their a big concert at Carnegie Hall was canceled, um, they didn't have an automatic easy way to connect with the people who would have been there in the seats. And so showing up as a leader maybe means a different thing. But you've built that over the years. And I'm curious what you're giving to that now. And more importantly, what that is giving to you right now?

Glennon Doyle: Well, I told Abby, well our family sat down a few days ago and said, okay, what are your goals for this time? Like, what are our intentions? What are we trying to do with this moment in our family, in our life? And I said to them, I just want I wanna be proud of how I handled that, this, when I look back on it, right? So I wanna be kind to our family. I know that sounds very basic…?

Jessi Hempel: Nope, nope doesn't.

Glennon Doyle: … (laughing) Okay, okay, that's like Jessi, that's if I can do that, my friends are calling, they're making homeschool lists, they're, the things that, they’re making Play-Doh, like I…?

Jessi Hempel: Yeah.

Glennon Doyle: … I, I, that's amazing, but for me, I have the astronaut food of goals when it comes to my family, right? I'm just, like, trying to shrink it down into like, I will be kind, I will not be amazing in any other way. I will be gentle, I will be kind, everyone's losing their, their stuff, and everyone in families reacts to this stuff differently. So I'm trying to let everybody be human in their own way.?

Um, and then my other thing was, I'm gonna show up for my community, my Together Rising community, my online community, in some way, each day, right? And whether that's just, like, posting a podcast that I did that I think they're going to love and bring them comfort. Or it's these family meetings I've been doing, um, or it's something hilarious that happened in our family that I think will just, like, make everybody laugh for a minute. I think it's tricky. We've, I've been doing that…?

Jessi Hempel: Right.

Glennon Doyle: … Like, that has been what I've been doing for, for, for, for I don't know, 10 years, I guess. Like, I love these people. These people have walked me through, we've grown up together. We have been showing up for each other in real life and online for 10 years. Like, they have seen my recoveries. They have seen my, um, the falling apart of my marriage. They have seen my divorce. They have seen my remarrying of Abby. They have seen my children grow up. I have helped them in their times. They have helped me in mine. So it's real…?

Jessi Hempel: Yeah.

Glennon Doyle: … It feels like the reason I show up, I wanna show up for them is 'cause I actually wanna show up for them.

Jessi Hempel: Yeah.?

Glennon Doyle: So what it does for me is that it just makes me feel less alone. And I have some, like, benefits here because I, like for example, after I had been quarantined in my home for five days, Abby looked at me and said, "you know, I've been thinking, has your life changed at all?" I was like, no, no. I didn't know if anyone would notice that, but I am a writer, and I'm a raging introvert, and I'm a homebody. I want my dog. I want my, my couch, like, so I will often go five days without ever leaving my house on a regular basis...

Jessi Hempel: (laughing)

Glennon Doyle: … So that's something I did.

Jessi Hempel: Great skill. I feel like all my introvert writer friends…

Glennon Doyle: (laughing)

Jessi Hempel: … are reporting versions of the same. If anything the world finally has reordered itself in a way that doesn't condemn them for their natural choices.

Glennon Doyle: I'm like, nice to see you all. I've lived here for years. Welcome to my wavelength.

Jessi Hempel: It feels like none of the rules apply anymore. Every rule that I thought was static and unbreakable, even my most creative self could not challenge. Uh, it doesn't apply anymore. So that leaves us to figure out how to listen to ourselves, because that is the only way that we're gonna have any order. The only order is gonna come from within. And that's an uncomfortable place to be.

Glennon Doyle: Yeah, and it's also such an opportunity, right? I mean, I do think that's weird because the main message of the book and the main message of my life, has been, okay, we have been trained to look outside of ourselves for, um, expectations about how we're supposed to create the life we create and the family that we create and the relationships that we create, and the companies we create and the governments we create, all of it, right?

But I think that this part of my life is teaching me that, like, it didn't work for me. I did all those things right. I was a good girl and I was a good woman and I was a good Christian and I was a good wife and I was a good mother and I was freaking miserable. So, um, it took me a while to figure out that all those goods it's okay to wanna be a good everything. You just have to define what good is for yourself, right? Because if you're defaulting to somebody else's idea of what's good, then it's always gonna be a cultural idea of what's good.

And for women, it is always gonna be in one way or another disappear, be quiet, get smaller, stop making us uncomfortable. However you define, like, the expectation, it'll be one version of that. And the only way to let go of those expectations and ideals is to go within, right? 'Cause everything, all the messages we get outside of what to do, they're not pure, they're not from us. They're created by people who are trying to control us. So the only way though to do that is to get still right? Is to start to block out all the other voices and do the, the difficult, but simple work of going inside and being quiet and listening for that nudge and that knowing and that voice. And here we are...

Jessi Hempel: Right.

Glennon Doyle: ...right? At this time when we actually might have some time to practice that. So I think that might be another way that this is like a resetting or a detoxing, because we don't think about the fact that, I mean, what is it, what do they say? 87%, I think it's like 87% of every message we hear is from somebody trying to tell us, sell something to us…?

Jessi Hempel: Yeah.

Glennon Doyle: It would reset our brains to actually just block off a bunch of that for a while and start living. Like, I wonder what will come. I wonder what will bubble up for people? What new ideas people will have, what feelings will come out that have been repressed? What memories, what dreams? I think it could be, like, an awakening.

Jessi Hempel: I've been thinking so much about whether people are gonna come out of this, wanting to spend more time with their families, to, to use their time differently, to prioritize being with their families or whether we'll all fall back into very quickly, um, all the distractions that we're more comfortable with.

Glennon Doyle: Yeah, like this one moment of hope I've been thinking about is how amazing it's gonna be when there's that day. Whenever that day is where it's official that we could even like responsible people who have been at home are gonna all go freely with freedom, enjoy, and responsibility, be able to go out, right? And, like, soak in the sun, let our children run around and touch each other and hug and gather and dance, like that is gonna be so amazing. We're gonna appreciate each other in ways that we maybe have never, that we have always taken for granted.

Jessi Hempel: Got it.?

Glennon Doyle: And then I think because we're human beings, that will probably last about 12 minutes. (laughing) Right??

I really do, like, I don't I don't think that it's gonna last, like, I think that we're gonna go right back to, like, pissing each other off and not liking each other and, like, getting distracted. But there's no way that this experience won't change us in some profound and everlasting way, right? There will be something inside of us that we take with us, because we will become something different.

Jessi Hempel: Right.

Glennon Doyle: Right? There's no way we will stay the same after this. But I don't see us turning into different sorts of beings.

Jessi Hempel: I don't think so either.

?Glennon Doyle: ...No?

Jessi Hempel: That was Glennon Doyle. Her new book is Untamed and it's out now. She's also holding regular morning meetings on Instagram. Next week I'll bring you a music producer, Kabir Sehgal. He is holding nightly quarantine concerts with famous musicians and funneling some of the proceeds to them.?

? The sun will come out tomorrow ?

Jessi Hempel: And we'll talk to broadway actress Laura Benanti when the season's high school musicals were effectively canceled, Laura invited young performers to sing their songs for her and tag them sunshine songs.?

? Just thinking about tomorrow ??

? Clears away the cobwebs ??

? And the sorrow ??

? 'Til there's none ?

Jessi Hempel: And one more thing, we'll be hosting a live show in conjunction with the amazing nonprofit Out In Tech on Tuesday, April 14th, at 3:00 PM Eastern I'll be interviewing the investor, Arlan Hamilton. Arlan built and runs a VC firm that funds people of color, women and LGBT people. She founded it while homeless. We'll hear her story live on Tuesday, April 14th, at 3:00 PM Eastern. You can follow me on LinkedIn to tune in and join it.

[Ed: Since this is a rerun and we're out this week, there isn't an office hours. We hope you'll join us on July 14th at our next gathering, right on the LinkedIn News page at 3p ET.]

Jessi Hempel: If you like our show, please rate us on Apple Podcasts. It takes two seconds and it helps new listeners find us. Hello Monday is a production of LinkedIn. The show is produced by Sarah Storm with help from Madison Schaeffer. Joe de Georgie mix our show. Florencia Iriondo is head of original audio and video. Dave pond is our technical director, Maya Mangini, Victoria Taylor, Michaela Greer and Juliette Farout guide us to the next great thing. Our music was composed just for us by the Mysterious Breakmaster Cylinder. You also heard music from Paddington Bear. Dan Roth is the Editor-in-Chief of LinkedIn. I'm Jessi Hempel, thanks for listening, stay home if you can, and I'll see you on Monday.

Jessi Hempel: Years ago, I started reading you and I think it happened for most of your readers, the other way, where they were Christian mothers, who then got comfortable with the gay thing. It happened for me the other way, which is I was like, you read this Christian mommy blogger. Oh my God, she's a great writer. I totally relate to everything she writes. It was years after that, that you have come into this, sort of, broader. I don't even know if you call yourself gay or not and you don't need to, but when you finally found Abby, I was, well, I didn't need you to do that to speak to me, you've actually been speaking to me for like years…?

Glennon Doyle: (laughing) But that really got ya.

Jessi Hempel: … But, but , but then I was like, yes.

Glennon Doyle: (laughing) All right I'm in,

Jessi Hempel: Yeah, right.

Glennon Doyle: All right I'm in. Well, I'm glad I could do that for you.

Jessi Hempel: Thank you, thank you, well for Francis.

Glennon Doyle: Yeah, yes, yes.

Jessi Hempel: Which we appreciate.

Glennon Doyle: Yes of course for Francis.