Transcript, E196: How to make change with Alex Budak

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Network ID: LinkedIn News.

Jessi Hempel:

From the news team at LinkedIn, I'm Jessi Hempel, and this is Hello Monday. It's our show about the changing nature of work and how that work is changing us. And it's gonna be a big year, folks. There is so much coming at us. There are so many ways in which we have the opportunity to step up here, so let's start this week, let's start this year with a vision statement. Do you have one? I'm not talking about your work here, the organization you're part of. Do you have a vision statement for yourself? Me, I've been working on this one, and here's what I've got so far. My vision, to make people feel more connected to themselves and to each other. That's my goal. Regardless of where I work or what job I have, this is the work that I'm really trying to do.

This year on Hello Monday, we're focusing on optimism. As I said last week, optimism is the promise that we have agency, and it's our own belief that we can exercise that agency in any given moment to create better circumstances for ourselves, better solutions to our most intractable problems, better lives for future generations, for the people that will inevitably come after us. We can change things. My guest today is Alex Budak. Alex is a member of the Business School's faculty at UC Berkeley, where he teaches this popular course on how we can change things. Last year, his course became a book. It's called Becoming a Changemaker: An Actionable, Inclusive Guide to Leading Positive Change at Any Level.

In this conversation, I hope you'll hear lessons for yourself, lessons about how you can work toward your own vision, how you can make change that matters to you. For Alex, a lot of these thoughts began with a walk that he took with a social entrepreneur, a woman who had started a company that helps people in developing countries get loans. Here's Alex.

Alex Budak:

So I had this wonderful walk with Shivani Siroya, the founder of Tala. And we were chatting and just learning about the impactful work that she does. She's a- a fintech entrepreneur who's built and scaled an incredible company. And as we were talking, you know, the traditional lenses we use to understand someone who's a quote, "Successful person," and to be clear, she's a very successful person, the traditional lenses, uh, were falling short because of course she had great financial acumen, of course she was a great leader, of course she was this spirited entrepreneur, but I saw she was doing something more than that, that so many of the things that made her quote unquote "successful" by all outward measures were a number of the things that were a little bit more intrinsic, these, call these, they're a little bit harder to measure.

And in that moment, I started realizing that she wasn't just an entrepreneur, wasn't just a leader, though she was. She was also a change maker. And a lot of what made her successful were not just the things we could sort of easily copy and say, "Oh, I'm gonna go take a Coursera course and get as good at finance as she is," but no. It's about some of those, um, heart values, the things like humility and empathy and curiosity and resilience. And I think those are the things that made her super successful. And I became really inspired in that moment because what's so wonderful about those traits is I believe each and every one of us can develop them.

Jessi Hempel:

I think that that's right. And your book really offers a path to do that in mirroring the course that you teach at Berkeley, I believe. It starts with this idea of mindset, and I really want to explore this because I think mindset is integral. It is the first step to anything we want to accomplish and any vision of ourselves that we want to live into. Explain what a change maker mindset is.

Alex Budak:

Here I'll bring in the words of poet Amanda Gorman. She delivered the poem, The Hill We Climb, at the inauguration of Biden and Harris. And I think the final three lines of this poem are a perfect embodiment of what I mean by a change maker mindset. So she says, "For there is always light if we're brave enough to see it, if we're brave enough to be it. For there's always light, the idea that tomorrow can be better than today, that we may not know exactly what's ahead, the world may feel dark, but that there is a light ahead, and we can be that light that illuminates the path forward for others. For there's always light, if only we're brave enough to see it."

I think a change maker mindset requires being able to see things that others may not see yet. We sometimes talk about vision as being something that's in the office of the CEO, but I think each of us can have a vision. And so e- as change makers, we can perhaps see a status quo that needs to be disrupted, or a system that is unjust and needs to be changed. For there is always light if we're brave enough to see it. And then the third part, if we're brave enough to be it. Being a change maker, having a change maker mindset requires courage. It requires the willingness to stand up and say, "Look, I don't know exactly the answer. I don't know exactly that path, but I'm gonna do something about it. I'm gonna give myself that permission to go lead change." And so I think that's a nice way of thinking about what it means to have a change maker mindset.

Jessi Hempel:

I love her poetry. I appreciate what you're saying there. I think that there's something beneath it, which is that you need to have a fundamental belief that things can change in the future, which may seem small, Alex, but it is not small, right. Uh, we can't actually steer into a future that we cannot first envision, and we cannot have the courage to envision it unless we believe that things can change as they are. So, what makes you believe that your circumstances, your personal circumstances and the world's circumstances can change?

Alex Budak:

Because it's the only way that we've ever changed going forward, but I think the thing is, we tend to think about change in the macro sense, and it can feel really overwhelming, right. Let's take climate as an example. It can feel like this climate catastrophe that's coming, and we're helpless to try to stop it. And if you think about it on that macro scale, it absolutely can feel that way, but once you start getting down a little bit more micro, you start realizing that we actually have a lot more agency than we may think. Now, not any one single person will be able to solve it. That's impossible. But each of us finding a little bit of courage, a little bit of agency, taking a little bit of a step forward, that's where change actually happens.

And so I think that we can so often get wrapped up in feeling that the problems are so much bigger than ourselves. And to be clear, we're facing deep systemic issues, to be clear. But once we start realizing that in small little ways, small little steps of action, we start building a bit of our confidence, and that's where we realize that change really is possible.

Jessi Hempel:

Well, so what you're getting at is- is so crucial, which is that, um, change is something that takes everybody leaning in, it takes community, and it happens in incremental pieces. Let's stay on climate change a second, in part because I'm gonna tell you, I have small children, you do too, it is something that I think about with trepidation, almost every day. Um, help me to understand like where the evidence is for the fact that like change is possible.

Alex Budak:

So, I had a student who asked this question in class one time. She asked it to Sid Espinoza. He's the first ever Latino mayor of Palo Alto, California, and at the time, he was the Vice President of Philanthropy at Microsoft. And she asked, "Look, I want to create change on climate, but it feels really overwhelming. It feels like there's nothing that I can possibly do. How should I think about it?"

And he said, "Look, we need to stop thinking about change as being an individual sprint. We've got to start thinking about it as this relay race that any of the big problems we're trying to solve, we may not solve it in our lifetime. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try. It doesn't mean we can't advance it. Our job is to take the baton from those who came before us, and then in the five, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years that we're working on it, advance that baton as much as we possibly can. And then when the time comes to pass off that baton, to not just hand it off, but to make sure that we're good stewards who are setting up the next generation for success, being mentors, being guides and so on."

And so when we think about climate for instance, um, we aren't at a place now where climate is fixed. Maybe we'll never, won't even get to that point where climate is no longer something we have to worry about.

PART 1 OF 4 ENDS [00:08:04]

Alex Budak:

... before we even get to that point where climate is no longer something we have to worry about.

But there are innovations along the way. I find a lot of inspiration from the climate tech world, some really fascinating things being done now around nuclear fusion. So there's potential when you see it, but it's about sort of having that lens.

I think once we started looking for those little wins, however small they may be, you start realizing, okay, we can keep building on this and building on this. But the key is not to think that each of us individually has to do it, but to have this collective mindset, collective change maker mindset that sees changes and opportunity.

Jessi Hempel:

You know, Alex, it also feels worth like stepping back and looking at the long arc of history here. It would be easy but small-minded to think that somehow this moment in history is different, that it will be the one that brings us down. But another way to just reframe that is to remember that we are humans, and throughout all of history, humanity has invented itself out of its biggest problems over and over and over again.

And so if you just look at history as your guide, it gives you some window to at least allow the possibility that we as humans will continue to invent our way out of our problems. And maybe you don't have exactly what that looks like in front of you yet, but maybe you can be open to the idea that it is there in front of you.

It feels very in line with what you're writing about and thinking about.

Alex Budak:

Do you have hope and do you have faith based on our collective history? Now that said, I do also believe that the world is changing faster and faster than ever before. And so I think that's where the change maker mindset and our ability to collectively become change makers becomes that much more important. Because the scale and pace of change is just much more than we've had to deal with before.

You know, if you think about the time that in between the printing press and the steam engine. You know, that, they're revolutionary technologies and we had a lot of time as humans to adapt. I mean, maybe only one disruptive technological change in a lifetime.

But now just think about our last few years, and now we have ChatGPT among other things that are revolutionizing things. But a lot of it comes back to our mindset of saying, you know, "Is this the end of education? Will everything be copied? Or can we say, "How can we use this amazing new technology to think about things in a new way?"

Jessi Hempel:

Yeah. I think that's right. When you think about what it means to be a leader in our culture and a, as a change maker.

Um, you begin at the very start of your course, your book, you begin by encouraging us to question the status quo. Um, and I particularly liked your discussion of curiosity, how important curiosity is, and then your obstacles to curiosity.

Alex Budak:

(laughs)

Jessi Hempel:

So I wonder if you might frame for us what you're talking about with curiosity and its obstacles.

Alex Budak:

You have young kids. I have a two year old. They're great at asking why and being curious about the world. Yet we somehow lose that as we go along.

I come from the world of academia, where, um, I don't have a Ph.D. myself, but most people with Ph.D.s, they have to become the world's leading expert in one specifically siloed thing and that's how they get rewarded. And so instead of thinking about, you know, the big problems, the big issues we need to solve, whether that's racial justice or water access, won't be solved by one discipline or one idea.

We've got to think at the margins.I believe in innovating at the edges and sort of seeing new disciplines, new possibilities. I like the idea of thinking about not always trying to be hyper efficient. You know, we can get in this trap where it's like, okay, I've got 45 minutes, let me make sure I can respond to three emails and answer this...

And we never have the chance to actually breathe. I'm a huge believer in opening ourselves up to new stimuli. Uh, I'll let you and your community in on one of my, uh, my guilty pleasures. I love the show Love is Blind on Netflix. It's probably the last show that any of my students or anyone would expect me to watch, but I love it.

But as I watch it, you know, I'm of course enjoying it with my wife, it's a guilty pleasure. But I'm also starting to think, oh, that's kind of interesting. You think about like mindset in a new way, and see that leadership in a new way. Like you get these like, new, uh, stimuli to get you thinking in a fresh way.

Now if I told the people that I work with at UC Berkeley, "Oh, well part of my work time is to go watch Love is Blind," I don't think they would buy that. But I do think that just seeing things in a new way can open up new possibilities for us.

Jessi Hempel:

I also, as I read about your barriers to curiosity, it felt like what you were getting at was something larger, which is that we often fill our time, particularly our productivity time, AKA our work time, with tasks to accomplish, usually related to that expertise.

And that ends up making other people sort of in control of our to-do lists rather than actually creating the space or the time for us to take what you were talking about, which is getting the synapses firing differently and allowing the brain to make new connections. Like, take the time away for that to happen at all.

Like for example, the to-do lists. How many to-do lists do I have to do before I leave? So many.

Alex Budak:

And such a mindset shift. Because it's also much easier to measure. It's a lot easier for you to look at your day and go, look, I cross off seven things on my to-do list. Look at what I did today that I had.

But creativity and change isn't always linear. You might have times where you're not doing a lot of things, at least on the surface level, but you're actually creating the, the conditions for change.

And so giving us that space to get away from the charity of our to-do lists and the space to think creatively, um, is a huge unlock for our ability to be change makers.

Jessi Hempel:

And you pushed us not to ask the wrong questions. What are the wrong questions?

Alex Budak:

So I mean, one of the things that, um, I hate when I see in leaders is when they'll say some things like, um, "How are you gonna fix this? What are you gonna do about this? And I love instead, this comes from the design thinking methodology, the question of, "How might we?"

"How might we" is wonderful, because first of all, it's we, so it's involving ourselves and not just placing the burden on someone else. But this magic word "might," um, Amy Edmondson at Harvard Business School has done incredible work on psychological safety, and I find that to be absolutely key for high-functioning teams and also for innovation in teams.

Um, and she says a key is to shift from thinking about things as an execution problem to instead being a learning problem. When we're in execution mode, it's simply about getting the, quote, right answer as quickly as you possibly can and moving on.

Whereas framing it as a learning problem gives us a space to be wrong, to try new things, to do yes and, and wonder, well maybe that's not quite right, but let me build on your idea and we'll find a new path forward.

I think "how might we" is a wonderful question because it almost begs this idea of divergent thinking, of multiple ideas coming out. And then if you give your space to think about ideas, wrestle with ideas, find new connections, then wonderful things can happen as a result.

Um, I also like asking the question of, "What would my replacement do?" We can get so stuck in our own path dependency, which is, you know, "This is how Jessi does things, this is how Alex does things." But if you actually kind of step away and you go, okay, imagine someone else were in our shoes, what would they do without having the baggage we bring into our ways of thinking and of doing, can be a new catalyst to see things in a new way.

Jessi Hempel:

We're gonna take a quick break here. When we come back, more on how you can have agency and how you can make change, no matter what you hope to do.

And we're back. In his book, Alex talks about having confidence without attitude. It's this idea that you can feel confident and still stay open to change. And as part of this, he brings up the importance of trust.

Over the past few years, we've all see how important trust is to having a functioning society. We need it. For democracy, for successful business, for an optimistic future. So I asked Alex to share his thoughts on how to build up trust.

Alex Budak:

So I love the work done by Rachel Botsman. And she defines trust in I think a really compelling way. She says, "Trust is a comfortable relationship with the unknown." And to me, that's what trust is, because it's never gonna be completely logical. You know, whether you think about getting in a Lyft or an Uber with a driver that you've never met. You know, to people 20, 30 years ago, that idea would be completely crazy. And if I say, no, that's, you know, kind of what we do. But the idea-

PART 2 OF 4 ENDS [00:16:04]

Alex Budak:

... And we say, "No, that's, you know, kind of what we do." But the idea of building a comfort level with the unknown is actually what trust is. Now that said, I think we should break trust down into three different parts, and they're all sort of pillars that build upon one another.

The first is learning to trust ourselves, the second is learning to trust others, and the third is getting others to trust us. So when it comes to trusting ourselves, I like the work done by General McRaven.

He talks about, um, the one piece of advice to living a successful life. He says, "Make your bed." The case to make your bed, and he says that it is a healthy habit, it gets you a bit of discipline, and then if you come back at the end of the day, and even if you had a really bad day, well, at least your bed is made.

I think that's a nice way to think about building some of those small little trust inducing habits, small little things we can do as individuals that bring us closer to, uh, trusting ourselves.

Jessi Hempel:

Well, why is trust so important in the first place to being an effective change maker?

Alex Budak:

Almost by definition, when you're leading change, you can't know what's gonna come on the other side. And so, can you get comfortable enough to say, "Look, I don't exactly the right answer but I trust that we'll figure it out. I trust that there's something worth pursuing. I trust that I can bring others along with me."

Now at the same time, I firmly believe that change making is a team sport. There's so many of us who are outstanding individual contributors. It's something I see in many of my students at UC Berkeley as undergrads, and MBAs, with so many people in the working world. They're great individual contributors.

But I firmly believe that we will do our most important work through and with others, and it's fundamentally impossible to lead change without engaging others in that change. But by definition, to bring others in, you've got to learn how to trust.

And I've seen so many change makers that fall in love with their ideas but feel scared to trust anyone. And when they do, um, their change efforts never reach their full potential because it never brings others fully into the change.

Jessi Hempel:

I want to talk about the failure exercise that you do-

Alex Budak:

Mm.

Jessi Hempel:

Because it feels actually, uh, related. I- it explores this idea that we, we don't trust ourselves enough. Describe what the failure exercise is. And Alex, Alex, before you... Before you explain, I just want to remind our listeners what we know to be true, which is that people, particularly people in the part of the country that you live in, love to glorify failure, but also hate to fail, (laughter) terrified to fail. It's terrifying. The rejection involved is too much. So continue.

Alex Budak:

We love to talk a good game, we love to intellectualize, and say, "Oh, yeah. Failure is really important for other people." (laughter) But when it comes to ourselves, and our own failure, it feels really uncomfortable-

Jessi Hempel:

Yeah.

Alex Budak:

So that's exactly right. This comes after a class where we've talked about failure. We've done some case studies, we've looked at some data, some empirical frameworks, and then towards the end of class, I put up a slide that says two words, "Go fail."

And I look out at my students, and they start kind of looking around at each other nervously, like, "What is going on here?" I put up the next slide, and I say, "Okay. You've got 15 minutes. You have to go leave the classroom, and you cannot come back until you've gotten rejected, until you ask for something and you get a no. Get out of the classroom, get rejected."

And so my students start nervously shuffling out of the classroom, and then 15 minutes, when they come back, the energy is just absolutely off the charts, so much so that I once had a professor next door who came over and asked us to keep the noise down because students were just so lit up from this experience. (laughter)

And we find that one of two things happens. For about 30% of students, they go out there, they ask for something, they're sure that they'll get rejected and actually get a yes. I think about one woman who went to the café downstairs, and she said, "Hi. Um, could I have a free orange juice?"

And the barista said, "Yeah. Okay." And she said, "Oh, I'm supposed to fail. Um, can I have two?" And they said, "Yeah, okay." "Three?" "No." Thankfully, he cut her off at three, (laughter) but she came back to the classroom with two orange juices for all of us. And of course the lesson there is that sometimes our first failure is that we're so sure we'll be rejected that we don't actually ask for something that we may want, and may even get in the first place.

Jessi Hempel:

Yeah.

Alex Budak:

And then for the other 70% or so of students, they go out there, they ask for something, they dutifully get rejected. But instead of coming back and feeling bad about themselves, they actually come back with this boost of confidence. They're proud of themselves for putting themselves out there.

Um, and they realize that no one laughed at them, that failure isn't fatal, and they have this new sense of courage and confidence that says, "Well, look. If I can make this ask for something silly that I didn't even want in the first place, imagine what I could do when I ask for something that I truly and deeply believe in?

Jessi Hempel:

I love that example. And to that second point, to that second group of students, when you get to that third orange juice and someone says, "No, you can't have it." It must just be a surprise that it doesn't feel that bad, it doesn't destroy your ability to talk to them in the future.

It's not hugely embarrassing, it's just that the answer's, "No, you can't have it." Um, so simple.

Alex Budak:

It's a silly exercise, of course, but it's also trust inducing because you realize that you can put yourself out there, that failure isn't fatal, and you can keep moving forward. It's simple, and it's a profound lesson that they learn that they then take forward with them.

Jessi Hempel:

The third pillar you introduced here, you call the chapter Beyond Yourself. You give the example of talking to a young person, and they're explaining what they want, and, um, you know, what they want is to be on the Forbes 30 under 30 list. They want it so bad-

Alex Budak:

Mm.

Jessi Hempel:

And that really resonated for me because I can think of so many things like that that I have wanted personally for myself. Um, and you invited them to flip the script. Explain that a little bit.

Alex Budak:

What I told him is that you ultimately can't control whether or not you get one of those lists. Even if you're perfectly deserving, it'll still be up to some people in some board room in New York City that are sitting around a list of a ton of really accomplished, really deserving people, and they'll choose 30 people from that list. You can't control that.

The one thing you can control is choosing in this moment to meaningfully serve others, to try to have a positive impact on those around you. Now, can it guarantee that you'll get on some Forbes 30 under 30 list? No, of course not.

What we're doing here is we're shifting the locus of control from being extrinsically driven, where you just hope and hope that someone will you give that validation to instead, living a life of purpose, living a life of meaning, a life of impact where even if you don't get that recognition, you will have made so many other people's lives better. That's the principle beyond yourself, and that's a way of flipping the script to instead of waiting for other people to validate you, to instead find that sense of service beyond yourself, inside of you.

I think when you can anchor back to that beyond yourself sense of purpose, it will give to you a better sense of clarity on why you're doing what you're doing.

Jessi Hempel:

Um, and that, uh, it turns out is where the reward is, right?

Alex Budak:

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jessi Hempel:

I want to land on the fourth pillar of leadership that you explore, this idea that we should always be students. You talked about a lot of important things here, but the one that I want to just explore a bit is this idea of resilience, of, um... Of how we start again when things fall apart.

'Cause if we're ambitious people, and we have big visions for the change that we want to enable, and to see, uh, we're gonna fail. We're gonna fail a ton. And I think a ton about the very next moment after a big failure. I think a ton about what happens in the hours and the days after, and how we come back to the, the larger... The why. What have you learned about that?

Alex Budak:

So I'm coming to you from Silicon Valley, where I think the way that we often talk about resilience is totally broken. The way we like to define it, I think, is this idea of enduring as much pain as possible, that you're gonna go through hard times and just grit through it, and just keep going, and keep going, and just don't even think about it, just survive.

But that's not really resilience to me, and that's certainly not setting ourselves up for success, especially for the long term. So the way I define resilience instead, the way I try to reframe it...

PART 3 OF 4 ENDS [00:24:04]

Alex Budak:

... long-term. So the way I define resilience instead, the way I tried to reframe it, is remaining strong for the long haul. If you think about it, any meaningful goal will take a lot of time, you're not gonna accomplish it in one week, no matter how harsh you work in that one week. And you're also not gonna survive without having a number of setbacks, perhaps even dozens, hundreds, thousands of setbacks. And so the question isn't whether you will fail or have setbacks, because you inevitably will. The question is how you can reframe those setbacks and how you can remain strong for the long haul. And we zoom out and have that longer term perspective, it gives us the space to have some of those slip ups, whether it's of our own doing or external failures, gives us a space to keep on going.

Now I love the words of Matthew Kelly, he writes in the book, The Long View, "We tend to overestimate what we can do in a day, underestimate what we can do in a month, overestimate what we can do in a year, and underestimate what we can do in a decade." And so when it comes to change making or any meaningful goal, I encourage you think about that long-term. Because if you zoom out and you say, "Look, my goal for 2023 is by December 31st, I wanna be healthier." Well, it doesn't matter if you eat a brownie on January 3rd, it's really about, you know, are you staying strong for the long haul? Are you continuing on, you're not only one setback stop you, rather you're continuing and taking care of yourself, which is your most important resource, taking care of your own energy to make sure you can remain in that fight for change whatever that means to you. Not just for a couple of days, a couple of weeks, but for years or even decades.

Jessi Hempel:

So I wanna stay with this long-term thinking a second, 'cause part of what it means to operate as a change maker in the world is that I think that you are motivated by the process of making change, but you also have to accept the fact that, well, I'll explain it this way, my wife is a social worker. And at some point in one of her first jobs, uh, she got really great advice, the advice she got was you have to be willing to plant your garden, understanding that you may never see the seeds grow into flowers. That's a hard pill to swallow if you're looking for the somewhat ego-driven reward of seeing the pretty flowers.

Alex Budak:

That brings us back to the idea of going beyond yourself. It's the idea that you're setting others up for success, to bring that shade to others, even if you yourself may never experience it yourself. And that's how I think we need to think about change. Look at climate as one example. You know, we of course, wanna make sure that we leave a safe and healthy world for our kids. And I certainly hope that we will. I certainly believe that we'll do everything we can. But it's not just about 25 years, it's about 100, 200, 300, 400 years, and are we creating the habits, creating the structures that allow us to have that success? And truly that is changemaking. That's where you are no longer about Jessie or Alex, but really about the legacy of change, legacy impact that you leave behind.

Jessi Hempel:

Yeah. Alex, let's talk about vision statements for a second, because your vision statement has a lot to do with how you perceive success in the world. How do you think about what a good vision statement is and is not?

Alex Budak:

So to me, a good vision statement is two things, it's gotta be clear and it's gotta be compelling. You know, I think we often like to overcomplicate things, and we like to say, well, a good vision statement is seven words, or it's three words. And so why? Like, no, I think make it clear, and make it compelling. But my contribution here, I hope, is that you'll see that you can create vision statements for a number of different things, your organization, and your company will no doubt have a vision statement. Although to be clear, a lot of leaders get confused between a vision and a mission. Vision sort of being that future state, mission being the how or the, the what. But you can also have it for so many different levels of your life.

I worked with someone who was just stepping into her new role as a manager, and she created a vision for the type of manager that she wanted to be. Uh, my wife and I created a vision statement for the kid that we wanted to raise. We wanna raise a kid who is kind, healthy, and courageous, and clear and compelling. If that's all that's required of a vision, makes it much more inclusive. You can have a vision for a product that you run, an event that you're leading, or the family that you wanna create. Clear and compelling.

Jessi Hempel:

So how do you think about the vision for the work you're doing?

Alex Budak:

The one thing I know for sure, is that the world needs more changemakers. And so my vision is to create a world that's filled with and led by changemakers has give space for each of us to become changemakers in our own way. But I'm driven by this fundamental belief that each and every one of us can be changemakers, and that further, there's never been a better time than right now for each of us to find our own potential to lead positive change.

Jessi Hempel:

I love that. Alex, thank you so much. It was really great to have you on the show.

Alex Budak:

Jessi, you're a terrific changemaker. Thank you for having me.

Jessi Hempel:

That was Alex Budak. Learn more about his work at changemakerbook.com. Now, as we work on our year of informed optimism, that's really how I'm thinking about this year. Like so many of the ideas that Alex puts forth in his book are gonna be really key. You know, we need to embrace our agency here and do the things that are within our power to do. So this week on Office Hours, let's talk about exactly that. What's something you wish were different? And what's one small thing you can do to make change that will lead to that outcome? Join me and my producer Sarah Storm this Wednesday on the LinkedIn news page at 3:00 PM Eastern, or drop an email to [email protected]. We'll send you a link.

Now, here, I wanna just take a second and ask, if you've been listening for a while, is the show helping you? Is it doing something for you that keeps you coming back? I'd really love to know about it. So if that's true for you, drop us an email, or better yet, if you can, take a moment right now to write a quick review on your favorite listening platform, Apple podcasts, lately I've been listening on Castbox. Your efforts here, they're gonna help us, they're gonna help us grow, and I thank you for that.

Hello Monday is a production of LinkedIn News. Sarah Storm produces our show with mixing by Joe DiGiorgi. Courtney Coupe is Head of Original Programming. Dave Pond is Head of News Production. But Michaela Greer and Victoria Taylor help us make meaningful change. They are change makers. Our theme music was composed just for us by the mysterious Brakemaster Cylinder. Dan Roth is the Editor in Chief of LinkedIn. I'm Jessi Hempel, we'll be back next Monday. Thanks for listening

My one and four-year-old are asleep in the next room. If everything remains exactly as it should, they will continue to be asleep and you will never meet them. But in case of emergency, I may need one or two minutes.

Alex Budak:

I would love to meet them if they, if, if they're awake, I would love to meet them. But as a parent of a two-year-old-

Jessi Hempel:

(laughs)

Alex Budak:

... who just turned two, I hope they-

Jessi Hempel:

Congratulations.

Alex Budak:

... sleep for, for a little.

Jessi Hempel:

Yeah, you know, it's always so sweet to see kids on camera unless than you, unless they're your kids and then it's terrible.

Alex Budak:

(laughs) Yeah.

PART 4 OF 4 ENDS [00:31:01]