Top 3 Tips for Retention & Diversity

Our guests today are Mary O’Hara and Kristin Wood. Mary is the Executive Vice President of People & Engagement at Blue Shield of CA, and Kristin Wood is the VP & Head of Talent. In this episode, we talk about how labor shortages are presenting immense challenges, what companies can do to retain their people, and how to think creatively about where to recruit talent to ensure a diverse workplace.

What we love about Mary and Kristin is their unwavering dedication to people, people, people. They lead with empathy, compassion, and openness. At Blue Shield of CA, they’ve built exemplary programs that create pipelines and pathways for people to grow in their careers and be promoted from within the organization. The programs have been so successful that they’ve exceeded their internal promotion goals for the past several years in a row.

Mary and Kristin are a formidable team who are truly building a people-first organization. The company has earned numerous awards over the past several years. In 2022, Blue Shield of CA was named to the Fortune 100 list of Great Places to Work and recognized as a Best Place to Work for LGBTQ+ by the Human Rights Campaign.

ABOUT THIS SERIES

Imagine if you could learn from some of the top experts on how to build company cultures where everyone can be fully engaged, feel valued, and have impact. In this series of interviews from?GMN’s Leader’s Playbook podcast, we talk with leaders who are laser focused on that mission, including Chief People Officers, Heads of Talent Development, DEI specialists, ESG experts, and more. They candidly reveal the challenges they’re facing during these extraordinary times and share their most effective strategies for creating positive changes that are transforming the future of work. And yes, we also hear about the ideas that did not work. Why? Because the best leaders pay it forward and help others avoid their mistakes.

LABOR SHORTAGES & THE GREAT RESIGNATION

We keep hearing about the Great Resignation and how many companies are having trouble finding enough workers to fill jobs. The healthcare industry is certainly not immune to that. It’s an issue that Mary thinks about a lot.

“By 2030, the World Health Organization expects a net shortage of about 15 million health care workers,” Mary says.

15?million? I don’t know about you, but that was a really startling statistic to me.

“It means you’ve got to grow your own. That’s an absolute. There’s no ifs, ands, or buts about that,” Mary continues. “The fact of the matter is that organizations that don’t manage their talent pool internally as very important assets and quite intentionally try to cultivate the potential of the people who work for you, I think you’re potentially doing so at your own peril.”

COMMITMENT TO EMPLOYEE RETENTION & TALENT DEVELOPMENT

What I appreciate about Mary and Kristin is they’re open about the skepticism from some people about talent mobility programs, especially among underrepresented groups who sometimes feel like it’s more about checking a box than making a true commitment.?

Kristin says they mitigate the skepticism with a two-fold approach.?“First…our established commitments are not just at an enterprise level or at a leadership level, but by business unit. And so leaders are on the hook.”?

And secondly, Kristin says,?“We’ve offered a lot of opportunity for feedback loops to be able to get feedback from individuals, whether leaders or individual contributors, about their experiences.”

GET CREATIVE ABOUT DIVERSITY & INCLUSION

Mary and Kristin are adamant about aligning Blue Shield’s diversity with the communities they serve. That means not just looking at Ivy League schools or a narrow economic range, but also at public colleges in California and across the country. They also partner with groups like Girls Who Code and the Hispanic technology leaders group HITEC for employee referrals.

“Some are coming in with a lot of education and experience for more leadership roles, and others are more junior,” Kristin says.?“We also provide university partnerships where individuals can get an education while they work with us…so we can help everyone to be as developed as they can be.”

These types of efforts are just as good for business as they are for talent.

“We know that these things make us stand apart as an employer,” Mary explains.?“It’s also tremendously important for business because you have people who are truly engaged. They’re far more likely to be loyal to your organization and to continuously learn and grow along with the direction of the business.”

GUESTS IN THIS EPISODE:

• Mary O’Hara, Executive Vice President, People and Engagement, Blue Shield of California | LinkedIn
• Kristin Wood, PhD, Vice President, Head of Talent, Blue Shield of California | LinkedIn

ABOUT THE INTERVIEWER & GMN

Thuy Vu is co-founder and CEO of the Global Mentor Network, a pay-it-forward enterprise with a noble mission to solve one of the world’s greatest challenges - building the next generation of diverse, transformational leaders.?

Prior to GMN, Thuy was a news anchor in San Francisco, seven-time Emmy winner, and recipient of a prestigious Edward R. Murrow award for in-depth journalism. She came to the U.S. as a refugee from Vietnam and is currently a board member at The RealReal, as well as a former Advisory Board member at DocuSign.

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Thuy Vu:?Our topic for this episode is: Internal Mobility - Creating Career Pathways for Employees within an Organization. It’s a mission that’s front and center of our two guests today from Blue Shield of California. Mary O’Hara is the Executive Vice President of people and engagement at Blue Shield. And Kristin Wood is a Vice President and Head of Talent there. Welcome to you both.?

Mary O’Hara:?Thank you.?

Kristin Wood:?Thank you.?

Thuy Vu:?So great to see you two ladies, today. Let’s start off with laying the foundation for the concept of “internal mobility”. Mary, how do you define it??

Mary O’Hara:?Well, simply put, it’s really about the movement of people inside of your organization and being quite intentional about that, so that we’re both deliberate about our processes, as well as our programs to support the movement of talent through roles that helped them to achieve their aspirations, but also quite deliberately connecting them to the talent strategy that enables the business strategy.?

Thuy Vu:?So one thing feeds the other.?

Mary O’Hara:?Exactly. Right.?

Thuy Vu:?Well, our world has changed so rapidly over the past two years, the workforce is distributed, lots of people are working from home, people want flexible hours. Studies show time and time again, the great resignation is happening as well. So these trends make internal mobility programs and opportunities more or less important in an organization, do you think Kristin??

Kristin Wood:?These trends make internal mobility programs more important in an organization today. I’d say there are two key reasons for that. The first is making a commitment to empower every person in the organization to grow and develop, can help to reduce resignations and retain talent. The second thing I’d say is the opportunity to share that internal mobility is important to an organization, it’s a selling point for talent acquisition.?

So there are people resigning when they don’t have an opportunity to be transferred or promoted in their former organization. And these candidates will gravitate toward organizations that offer growth and development and promotion opportunities.?

Mary O’Hara:?Yeah, I’d also just add, I’m sure you saw the economist this week talked a little bit about the staff shortages in America and really is a glimpse into the future. The fact of the matter is that organizations that don’t manage their talent pool internally as very important assets, and quite intentionally, try to cultivate the potential of the people that work for you. I think that you’re potentially doing so at peril.

Thuy Vu:?Because you’re hurting recruiting and retention efforts, Mary?

Mary O’Hara:?Well, because there’s just a tremendous shortage, candidly. There was a great piece of work that was published by Aegon Center, a search form I’m sure you’ve heard of a couple of years ago, that cited the trillion dollar talent gap globally. And the economists just this week coming out with the staff shortages in America where we’re millions of workers short, relative to the jobs that are posted, and then you translate into health care and the industry that we’re in. And by 2023, or 2030, I should say, the World Health Organization expects a net shortage of about 15 million healthcare workers.?

Thuy Vu:?Wow, I didn’t know that. 15 million?

Mary O’Hara:?15 million. And so it just amplifies, I think, what Kristin is saying about not only your employment brand, but it also means you’ve got to grow your own. That’s an absolute, there’s no ifs, ands or buts about that.?

Thuy Vu:?So then, what are you guys doing at Blue Shield of California to grow your own, Kristin??

Kristin Wood:?We have a number of things. I’d say first, we’ve really been programmatic about it. And we have a Pipeline and Pathway program set by position level. So at every level of leadership, we care deeply that we build a strong pipeline, and that we put pathways in place for folks to grow and develop. So it’s a both/and for us, we have to make sure that we have enough talent to succeed folks as they grow. And we want to provide pathways for our employees to be able to continue to grow and develop and stay with us.?

So one key thing is our Pipeline and Pathway program. You know, aside from that, we make sure that we have development plans in place for everyone, because it’s important that everyone has an opportunity to be able to grow and develop. So we really focus on that as well.?

Thuy Vu:?Can you give us an example of that? How do you sprinkle that among everybody within an organization??

Kristin Wood:?Absolutely. First, we needed philosophical alignment from the top to know that this was something we wanted to do for all. And then we invested in a tool to make sure that we actually have professional development plans in place for everyone. And we aligned the timing of it with our SMART goals, and our mid-year and year-end reviews so that folks are consistently updating them when they’re already in a system doing work, to align to their SMART goals or their business goals, and how they’ve performed each year. So they’ll continue to keep updating what their development plan is, as they’re also making sure that they’re working with their leader on how they’ve been performing.?

Thuy Vu:?So let’s say for companies that want to do something like this but don’t have something like that already, can you give a concrete example of how that would work? Let’s take the example of Jane in the organization, who’s part of this program, how does it work for Jane at whatever level she said? You can choose.

Kristin Wood:?First, what you’d want to do is make certain that the leaders are aligned. And then Jane would need an actual document to be able to share things like what are Jane’s strengths? Where our Jane’s areas of development? What does Jane want to do in the short term over the next six or so months? And then what are Jane’s longer term career aspirations? So that whether Jane’s leader or her mentor or her peers, have a conversation with her, she has the opportunity to be able to share what her plan is, what she’d like to be doing. And folks can help to sponsor that plan and help her to get there faster.?

Thuy Vu:?That’s a great example of, thank you. And Mary, Blue Shield, I think is more progressive than many organizations on this front, in that, you have actual numerical targets in place for promotions from within, as opposed to external hires. Can you talk about that??

Mary O’Hara:?Yeah, I mean, context matters. Obviously, every business has its own set of circumstances. In our case, we’re a mission-driven company. And that means that coming to work at Blue Shield, you have to really, really care about what we’re trying to get done. And that has to have deep resonance with you. And the meaning associated with that, in large measure is a fairly critical screening process to begin with. You have people that want to come in and help to transform the healthcare industry. That’s an important part of who gets hired here.?

And the other part of it is also fundamental to what our ethos is, in terms of our values, and what that means in terms of leadership, and what we expect from people up and down the system. And so when you’ve done that amount of upfront thinking about your philosophy, and how deeply what you do, and the meaning of your work matters, and then fundamentally who arguably shares your values, you want to do as much as you possibly can to cultivate and engage that resource pool to be able to help, again, create the readiness and the supply, and the mix that the business needs at any given point in time.?

And so we have set targets, largely because we want to be both representative of the markets that we serve. And that’s an important part of our ethos here, is we want to help California. We’re Blue Shield of California, so we want to represent the markets that we operate in. But we also want to make sure that we’re always treating everybody here with opportunity. Everybody at Blue Shield has opportunity to grow personally, professionally, and financially. So part of our talent practices, deeply institutionalize the role of leaders and the role of individuals in that career growth and development.?

And you just heard Kristin talk about the rigor and development planning for Jane, as an example. But it also means setting goals that we aspire to, to make sure that there’s enough movement of our people. And that sets us apart from the outside, right, that people come to Blue Shield, there really is opportunity to grow. And it’s certainly less costly than constantly trying to get that capability from outside.?

Thuy Vu:?So Kristin, what are your numerical targets at Blue Shield of California for internal promotions?

Kristin Wood:?Yeah, we have set numerical targets both at the operational or the organizational level, and also the leadership levels. So we have a 35% commitment to be able to promote internally, and we align that commitment to our talent acquisition function. So that they’re thinking about a source of talent and a pipeline of talent being our internal folks first, before they go source externally, that’s been key and critical for us. And we’ve been able to achieve over 40% of internal promotion and leadership alone, which is fantastic.?

Thuy Vu:?That is amazing. You exceeded your target.?

Kristin Wood:?We did exceed our target this past year—for the last several years, actually. So it’s been really important to tie that to our talent acquisition goals, so that their success is the same as the numerical targets for the organization.?

Thuy Vu:?And you touched on this a little earlier. But I know that you have numerous programs at Blue Shield of California to mobilize talents from within, can you talk about that the different levels, the different pathway programs you have for everyone, from executives to junior leaders??

Kristin Wood:?Yes, certainly. So we offer talent mobility programs at all levels, to be able to increase the succession, accelerate development, and increase our retention, frankly, as we’ve been talking about. The programs we have in place start at our executive level. So we have both an executive acceleration program to move into some of our most senior positions, and a readiness program for senior leaders that are aspiring to either expand their remit or take on additional teams to be really positioned-ready to do that, that typically sits around our vice president and above positioning level.?

The next is really we have emerging leadership programs. So we offer programs for folks that have had some management experience, typically have a master’s degree based on the program, or an undergraduate degree, and they’re pursuing additional education. We really look to positioned-ready folks for our mid to senior level positions. And then we have readiness programs. So, programs to either help individual contributors move into leadership for the first time, or help pretty junior leaders be able to start to take on a larger remit and be able to lead.?

The important part of each of the programs is that there’s a timeframe set, we have nominations into the program. And we really offer an opportunity for folks to learn our leadership model, and be able to really align to our philosophy and understand our mission, as Mary mentioned, and our enterprise goals, so that as they graduate, they have enough information to be strong leaders at whichever position level that they’re in.?

Thuy Vu:?So it’s very structured, it’s not a, hey, let’s throw this out there and just accept anybody who wants to come into the program. It sounds like you have some pretty specific rules and guidelines and whole nomination process.?

Kristin Wood:?We do.We have a nomination process. And I would say there’s an application process for some of our programs as well. So it is important for folks to be able to self-identify and say if they’d like to be part of something, and know that they have the sponsorship that they’re ready for it. So there are times where folks are definitely ready, and they can join and they interview and apply and are accepted. There are other times where they may not be ready yet, and they really need the feedback around what to do to be position level ready to be in these programs and what learning may be needed in advance.?

Thuy Vu:?So Mary, for those who perhaps are aspiring, but not quite there yet not ready for the program, how do you get them ready within the organization so that they can be part of that whole internal mobility structure that you put in place??

Mary O’Hara:?Yeah, I think, first of all, for us, it’s been really important to be very intentional. And that includes, you know, Kristin used to word, philosophy, earlier, it’s a really important part of being in Blue Shield that you not only share our point of view, but what we’re trying to do on our mission here, which is to make healthcare worthy of our family and friends. But also that you share our ethos around leadership and values, and part of our leadership values is learning.?

We use that as part of our screening for who gets hired and who gets promoted and who might not be [inaudible 13:50] the organization. And we’re quite intentional about enunciating that about inculcating that and training to that and helping people understand those expectations and to really grow in that respect by giving them the tools they need. And so when Kristin says these programs have rigor and intention around the discipline of getting into them, it’s also alongside how we talk about performance management, how we talk about expectations, how we make it clear what our values are.?

And again, when you’re getting hired, as much as when you’re moving along in the organization, always, we are communicating in a two-way manner about those things, the values of the company as much as what we’re trying to get done. And that’s an emphasis that’s as prominent as our business strategy.?

Thuy Vu:?How do you ensure though, that there’s diversity and representation across the board in these programs, as you know, most organizations is generally recognized, can do a better job on that front and need to do a better job on that front.?

Kristin Wood:?I’m happy to take this one. And I’m thrilled to say we just spent time with our entire organization yesterday leading a diversity, equity, and inclusion all hands. So everyone understands our philosophy on the commitment to ensuring diversity across our organization and at every leadership level, but also in our programs. So we established diverse representation commitments across our organization, and specific to each program.

The diversity commitments aligns to enterprise and leadership commitments, so we can ensure that we’re helping to hit those diversity commitments over time. It’s not a quota, or to the decimal point, but it’s certainly a reasonable range that we’d like to be in. And let’s use one of our programs by example. We have a program, Ready to Lead. And so that program is to ready individual contributors to be supervisors and leaders over time. And of that, the program’s over 60% diverse. That’s an excellent way for us to move individuals who may have not otherwise had the opportunity in underrepresented populations to leadership positions in an accelerated fashion. And we’re thrilled because over 50% of our graduates have been promoted after the program and are diverse talents. And that’s bringing great diverse talent into our business units at leadership levels.?

Mary O’Hara:?But it’s also in part accredited to Kristin, the intentionality around the schools that we go to to recruit from. So if you’re looking at schools that have diverse populations, and you’re making sure that your intake is as diverse as a result of that, that you’re not just looking at Ivy League, for instance, or in a more narrow economic range, for instance, you’re more likely to have a diverse pool to select from. And then it goes alongside, again, this ethos that we’re constantly working on institutionalizing, and making clear about what’s important here. And that’s good for business as much as it is for talent, right? We know that those things stand us apart as an employer. But it’s also tremendously important for business because you have people therefore, that are truly engaged, and far more likely to be loyal to your organization and to continuously learn and grow along with the direction of the business.?

Thuy Vu:?So what are some of the more “unconventional” schools that you’re recruiting from instead of just going to the Ivy Leagues, for example??

Kristin Wood:?Great question. I mean, we are a California-based organization, so we look at universities in California, that’s very important. We have over 28 university partnerships, I should say. So it’s not all California.?

Thuy Vu:?Nice.

Kristin Wood:?And we look based on our business unit needs. So some need in our finance organization would be different than our health solutions. The universities, we established relationships with also help with the roles and the pipeline that we build. And as Mary was mentioning, it’s really good for business for us. We want to align our diversity to the communities that we serve. So being in our community universities, and helping to build opportunities in those communities for folks to graduate and to have opportunity with our organization to work, helps our members and our communities as well. So that’s then really multilayered in terms of the universities that we go after. We do have the Ivy League schools, and we also have more community-based schools.

Mary O’Hara:?Yeah, and we don’t just limit our recruiting to universities. I think that’s the other important part. There are really tremendous partnerships that we have at the community level that represent certain diversity groups. And they help us in that advocacy alongside leadership of our employee resource groups, and having referrals from leaders in those resource groups help connect us both to community and to talent that comes from those segments is, is another supply chain.?

Thuy Vu:?Can you give us any examples of the community groups that you partner with just as a way of helping people to think perhaps a little more out of the box or more openly about the types of partnerships they could have to help enhance diversity at the organization’s will??

Mary O’Hara:?Well, I’ll let Kristin speak to that in detail, but one small example is a member of our board… I mean, I guess you have to be a bit creative about this and think about all avenues where talent, again, is a shortage and we’re all competing for it. So all avenues can help you both your employee referrals. These resource groups is an example, but we have a member of our board, who is Hispanic leader and a very prominent one. He happens to chair High Tech, which is a Hispanic organization of IT leaders across California. And so we tap into him as an example for both that specialty area and IT, but in particular, the LatinX community.?

So that’s another supply in terms of talent and referrals. And we do know this, so talent begets talent. So that’s somebody who’s on our board who’s clearly emblematic of our leadership model somebody who understands our mission. And so therefore, it’s likely that the supply people that he’s tapping into, that we might not necessarily get the same access to already, would have a bit of a screen, so to speak, from him.?

Thuy Vu:?That’s a great concrete example. Thank you, Mary. Kristin, you’re nodding as well.?

Kristin Wood:?It’s been important for us to build community relationships like that for each of our underrepresented populations. So whether it is our LatinX population, and we’re looking to bring in Latin X leaders, as Mary’s talking about, into specific areas like technology, or women. So starting earlier for women in Girls Who Code, Women Who Code types of things, bringing in technology and more women into our technology organization by example.?

Or those in the community with disabilities or veteran status, or LGBTQ plus, we have community relationships with each of these populations so that we can bring in diverse underrepresented populations. And some are coming in with a lot of education and experience for more leadership roles, and others are more junior. And we’re looking at opportunities that we also provide university partnership where individuals can get an education while they work with us as well. So that we can help everyone to be as developed as they can be get the learning that they need to continue to grow.?

Thuy Vu:?Sometimes, though, there can be skepticism among underrepresented groups about these types of programs, right? It can sometimes feel like, oh, okay, the companies are rolling out another program, so they can check the box and say that, yes, they included us in their final reports at the end of the quarter. How do you overcome that kind of skepticism when people are looking around and they’re going, “Okay, so they have this program in place, but I don’t feel like I can progress as quickly as other people within the organization, that’s not going to happen for me.”

Kristin Wood:?I’d say it’s twofold. One first, to mitigate skepticism at the leadership level, it was really important for us to make sure that our established commitments are not just at an enterprise level or at a leadership level, but by business unit. And so leaders are on the hook for our diverse representation commitments. And they have goals aligned to that, so that it’s a benefit and a win for them to take individuals in from our programs that are diverse.?

The other side to answer the skepticism that you may get from an individual employee is that we’ve offered a lot of opportunity for feedback loops, to be able to get feedback from individuals, whether leaders or individual contributors, about their experiences. We offer digital conversations and focus groups and talk sessions where individuals can share what their experience has been. And we can help to either improve our programs, if we’re lacking in somewhere and we have learning to do, and/or be able to socialize more effectively, the things that we are doing and the opportunities that are available for individuals so that they know what is available to them that they may not have otherwise been aware of.

Mary O’Hara:?You know, mentorship and sponsorship goes a long way to help with that skepticism as well. I think you’ve got to see people in the organization and leadership roles that are like you. And that helps with the skepticism, but you also have to have them engaged. It has to be a surround sound of a system wide response. And for us, we asked leaders to personally engage in mentoring others, and demonstrating what we’re serious about this, it isn’t a voluntary thing. It’s an expectation of what leaders do here.?

Thuy Vu: That’s a great point, Mary. And I would imagine that mentorship is maybe a good sort of intermediate step too, right, for folks who want to be in a leadership position, but perhaps are not quite ready for it and could use sort of that one-on-one connection.?

Mary O’Hara:?Yeah, exactly right. And sponsorship as well. And we spend time on those. And to the extent that mentorship is a segue into this, I think that’s great. The other side of it is, it is equally about helping people just be the best version of themselves; may or may not lead to career progression. But it is in some measure about helping people just lean into being the best version of themselves and understand context, and the reverse mentoring that comes out of that is equally important. So it’s not always a path to career progression, but we hope that it builds loyalty, and helps really institutionalize being a learning organization.?

Thuy Vu:?Can you give an example of how your mentorship program works for those who perhaps want to set up something similar within their organizations, for mentorship and for sponsorship??

Kristin Wood:?Certainly, so I think first, it’s important to note that those are not the same. I think it is really important for folks to know that mentorship is a more intensive process, where a mentor and a participant work together and really set some goals together about what they’re looking to achieve with some help and some training in that, and spend time consistently. So we asked folks to spend six to nine months together and do at least monthly check-ins with one another. They keep each other accountable to progress on those goals and commitments.?

And a view of that development plan I mentioned earlier, so that the mentor can see it from a different lens than perhaps that employee’s leader does, and be able to spend time on making progress on those development commitments. We typically see that based on position level, and a few other specifics—about a six to nine month mentorship program. And then we’ve trained all of our mentors to also serve as sponsors. So as Mary mentioned—Thuy, I believe you mentioned as well—sponsorship is really important after mentorship, so that you have someone in your corner, making sure that when there’s an opportunity, they bring your name up, and they bring you to the table to be considered for those types of opportunities and sponsor you. So it’s a both/and for us, it’s really important for us to put parameters around both and help with the learning, most importantly, and how to do that well for both programs.?

Thuy Vu:?Sometimes within organizations, you can have all these programs in place, but there are occasional managers who want to hang on to their best talent, hoard their best talents instead of having to give up those people, right? Because they’re doing such a good job. How do you deal with that, and make sure you build a culture where people will share and help other people get the benefits of the talent within their units.?

Mary O’Hara:?Now, I’m sure Kristin can talk a little bit about our talent practices that helped to facilitate that. But I’d say this much, at least a start. Culture is as much about permissible behavior as it is about anything, to the extent that if you don’t have high quality conversations ongoing with your organization about those expectations of leaders, then I think it’s likely that you’re going to have some defaults of the things you’re describing, where my asset is my asset, and it isn’t thought of as an enterprise asset. Or it could be seen as an okay thing to not really spend time helping others personally grow and develop. Here, we’re quite intentional about that. And that level of dialogue is ongoing about that expectation, as well as the process that helps to facilitate enterprise view of talent. Kristin can talk about that,.

Kristin Wood:?To speak to that, first, our talent reviews are key and critical, so that our leaders are calibrating with one another about all of our strong talent. So knowing that we have talent pools in place, and we see our high potentials, and we’re having an open dialogue with our leaders around those high potential talent, and what else can they be doing to grow and to progress, that’s really important for us to open that door and make sure that we’re having those meaningful conversations.?

The next is really making sure that we’re holding our leaders accountable to that development of talent and those pools and making certain that if you have high potential, that you are providing them a glide path, an opportunity to grow, and professionally developed within our organization.

And I’d say the last piece two is, it is really actually helpful to change that philosophy in that culture with our leaders, or any organization’s leaders to stop thinking so much about this person’s a rock star, so they should stay with me and start thinking about the institutional knowledge that that leader has. And if they’re moved over to another area of the organization, how you can cross pollinate. And I think that’s really critical for us to have broken down some silos and some the barriers between organizations because now talent that used to sit in one organization can sit in another and share that knowledge that they have and build that network across functions. It’s important.?

Thuy Vu:?So these are great examples of the things that have worked for you at Blue Shield. But have you tried some approaches that failed or perhaps didn’t work so well? And based on those experiences, what advice would you have for others who are trying to create career pathways for their staff, their employees, their managers, or their executives??

Kristin Wood:?Certainly, there’s always key lessons learned, right? And I think it’s so important for us to learn from those lessons as we continue to grow programs to make sure that they’re scalable and sustainable. I’d say a few of the lessons that we’ve had that we’ve learned one key one in particular. Earlier on, we had some programs where I think that we spent a lot of time trying to solve too many different issues at the same time with pipeline and pathway, and so we went out, and we hired a lot of folks to come into one of our programs, and be able to get the development and the learning through that program. And then sometimes did not have a position where they could land ultimately after that program. And so they would take all that institutional knowledge and learning and then move on and not stay within our organization.?

I think the lessons learned there are twofold. One, it’s an investment that we make that we didn’t get the best return on investment on. And two, that we didn’t provide some folks internally the opportunity to develop first and use our programs first. And so that comes back to some of that skepticism you’re talking about before. I’d say what we learned from that is, it’s a both/and, we need to seek talent externally, when we don’t have the skills we need, or we have skill gaps, or we need a pipeline of talent, and we need to create pathway programs. I think that’s where we started to really learn how intentional and deliberate we want to be across the organization and understanding our programs, and why there’s a benefit to both.?

Thuy Vu:?So Mary, for organizations that don’t already have a proven program in place or programs in place. Where do you start? What advice would you give them??

Mary O’Hara:?I think it starts with philosophy. What is it you’re trying to achieve, and why? What are your deeply held beliefs in terms of how you think about talent, as an important part of your strategy overall, as an organization. So I’d say, articulating that, enunciating it, having leadership dialogue around that, to get engaged around where we spend our time as leaders, and what our roles are, as leaders in an organization on this agenda of talent. I think there’s a critical connection to the business strategy.?

You know, doing programs in isolation, in human capital, in isolation of what the business strategy is, is not particularly fruitful, and can lead to some of the things that Kristin described, sometimes developing these strategies outside of that deep connection and tie, can mean you create a lot of frustration for people in the programs because they don’t end up with jobs. And more importantly, from an evidence point of view, they don’t contribute to business outcomes. So tying it where your business strategy is headed.

And I think there’s a last point I’d make around cultural engagement by getting the voice of your people, making sure that you’re hearing from folks in your own organization, and wherever you’re recruiting from around what’s important to them. So you’re tying it to the business, you’re being very philosophically clear, you’re quite intentional about it, you’re engaging leaders, but you’re also engaged in the voice of your own people and the talent that are going to be affected by the work.?

Thuy Vu:?That is really beautiful, very comprehensive. Kristin, anything you want to add here?

Kristin Wood:?I’d say for any organization embarking on this, not only is that leadership, alignment, key and critical, I’d also say that piloting it first is really important. If you oversell and under deliver on a program that can actually have a knock on effect for the longer term for folks to trust in the program. So starting small and really meeting the business where they are in solving an institutional problem is really important in a specific pilot area, and showing some wins from that. And failing fast whenever you have learning is really critical before making it enterprise wide for the organization.?

Thuy Vu:?That is a great…And actually it makes me think of something you said earlier when you said that there were some things that did not work in the early days of trying these things. And you said in the beginning Blue Shield was trying to accomplish too many things at once with its pathway program. What were some of the goals you were trying to achieve all at once? And before you realized you probably needed a slimmed down version.?

Kristin Wood:?Sure. I think for that example, in particular, it was really solving for both building a pipeline of talent and for growing and developing and creating a pathway. And, and, and, right? So when you try to put too many things in and solve for it, you can have a tendency that not be able to measure its efficacy because some things are working. Some things from that initial program worked really, really well. And other things needed to evolve.?

So being able to isolate that out is a little difficult if you roll it out too broadly. It also creates, if you roll it out broadly quickly, this idea that you may have to rebrand or change it often. Organizations like GE have been phenomenal at this because they’ll build a program, pilot it, fail fast and then rebrand a program quickly. I think there’s good learning for anyone who’s starting out in this to meet the business where they are helped solve for a need there and then scale the program as there’s receptivity to that program and buy-in, and frankly, investment into that program too.?

Thuy Vu:?All right, Mary, I want to give you the last word here. You can wrap it up for us. And what are the long term benefits of these programs and initiatives intended to create internal mobility? What has Blue Shield seen as the benefits?

Mary O’Hara:?Yeah, well, I mean, mainly, what you’re getting is both the readiness and the supply and the mix of talent that you need at any given point in time, to make sure that you can enable your business outcomes and tie that to your goals. So you’ll hopefully get performance from a business point of view. But at the same time, engagement and loyalty around this being a place that people pick and choose as a great place to work as compared to other places that they might choose to, especially in a world of scarcity as it relates to talent.?

Thuy Vu:?Mary and Kristin, so good to talk to you. You’re both fountains of knowledge on this topic, and I so appreciate your time. Mary O’Hara, the Executive Vice President of people and engagement at Blue Shield of California and also Kristin Wood, Vice President and head of talents at Blue Shield. Thank you both for joining us.?

Mary O’Hara:?Thanks for having me.

Kristin Wood:?Thank you.