Thoughts about Populism Sparked By David Brooks' Interview with Steve Bannon

By Don Iannone, Ph.D.

I. Article Rationale

For those who may point a scolding finger at me for sharing this "political" article on LinkedIn, here is my rationale. I believe publishing this article on LinkedIn fits the platform's mission by providing critical insights into significant political trends that can impact business, economic, and career success. Understanding the rise of populist movements and the perspectives of influential figures like Steve Bannon is essential for professionals navigating the complexities of global markets and political landscapes. This knowledge helps business leaders, policymakers, and career professionals anticipate changes affecting their industries, investments, and strategic decisions. The final section of my article discusses the upsides and downsides of populism for businesses, the labor market, careers, and the economy, and it offers advice to readers on issues to consider related to populist politics.

"Politics and religion are the often ignored elephants in business and economic rooms, silently dictating the course while everyone pretends they aren't there."

My point is that politics and religion have a pervasive, yet often unspoken, influence on business and economic decisions. In many professional settings, discussions of political and religious beliefs are avoided to maintain neutrality and focus on common goals. However, these factors profoundly shape public policies, market dynamics, consumer behavior, and ethical standards, subtly steering business strategies and economic outcomes. Acknowledging their presence and impact is crucial for a comprehensive understanding of the environment in which businesses and economies operate. Many of these issues are discussed in my forthcoming book, "America's Dream at a Crossroads, The 2024 Presidential Election and Beyond , which will be published on July 8 on Amazon and many other online bookseller websites.

Furthermore, recognizing how populist politics influences economic stability, regulatory environments, and social dynamics is crucial for making informed business and career planning decisions. By sharing this article, readers gain a deeper understanding of the underlying forces shaping today's world, enabling them to better prepare for potential disruptions and opportunities in the stock market, international trade, and domestic policies. This aligns with LinkedIn's goal of fostering a well-informed, strategically minded professional community.

II. My Take on David Brooks' Interview with Steve Bannon

David Brooks, a moderate conservative who writes for the New York Times, admittedly our nation's largest liberal-leaning newspaper, conducted a highly informative interview with Steve Bannon on June 24, 2024. I respect David Brooks. The opinion piece was published on July 1, 2024.

Brooks' interview with Bannon provides important insight into the rise of populism and the extreme political right in America and elsewhere in the world. In Europe, the rising right-wing populist movements have made significant inroads in several countries. Here are a few examples. In France, Marine Le Pen's populist party triumphed in the European elections, prompting President Emmanuel Macron to call for new national elections, creating political upheaval. Geert Wilders' party secured notable victories in the Netherlands, while the ultra-right-wing Alternative for Germany surged in the European parliamentary elections. Additionally, Giorgia Meloni's Brothers of Italy party has gained substantial support. In the UK, Nigel Farage's Reform Party is on track to win seats for the first time in the upcoming national elections.

In his article "My Unsettling Interview With Steve Bannon," Brooks reflects on his encounters with Bannon, a prominent figure in right-wing populism. In 2019, Bannon confidently shared his vision for global populism, dismissing traditional conservatives and liberals. Populists were already gaining ground, with significant wins in Brexit and Trump's 2016 victory.

Recently, Brooks revisited Bannon amid a resurgence of populist victories across Europe and the possibility of another Trump win in 2024. According to Brooks, Bannon's confidence had only grown despite facing a prison sentence. Bannon described his podcast, "War Room," as a command center for a populist revolt, emphasizing its role in mobilizing followers.

Bannon attributed the populist surge to the West's ruling elites losing faith in their countries, detachment from the people's experiences, and immigration as a manifestation of this loss of confidence. He advocated for drastic measures like reducing foreign student numbers and promoting "American Citizens First" policies.

Bannon highlighted a self-organizing populist movement, poised to dominate Europe and the US. He criticized the Republican establishment and predicted a hardline approach to spending, immigration, and foreign policy under a potential second Trump administration.

Bannon stressed the need for radical change, portraying the populist movement as engaged in a "spiritual war." What does this mean? I believe that when Steve Bannon refers to the populist movement as being engaged in a "spiritual war," he is using rhetoric that aligns with right-wing religious and traditionalist ideologies. This "spiritual war" concept involves viewing political and cultural battles as part of a larger, almost cosmic struggle between good and evil. This language is often employed to mobilize and motivate followers by framing their cause in existential and moral terms.

Bannon’s use of "spiritual warfare" is rooted in a blend of Traditionalist philosophy, which views modernity as a period of moral and spiritual decline, and Christian nationalist rhetoric, which portrays opponents as demonic forces. This worldview is heavily influenced by thinkers like René Guénon and Julius Evola, who advocated for a return to a hierarchical, spiritually driven social order. In this context, Bannon and his allies see themselves or want others to see them as defenders of traditional values and Western civilization against the perceived corrupting forces of modernity and secularism.

Bannon’s framing of political conflict as a "spiritual war" has significant implications. It suggests that the battle is not just political but also moral and existential, which can justify extreme measures and reduce the potential for compromise. This rhetoric has been linked to real-world violence, as seen in the events of January 6, 2021, where such language was used to incite action among the participants.

By portraying the populist movement in these terms, Bannon aims to galvanize a broad base of supporters who see their fight as part of a larger, divinely sanctioned mission, thereby elevating their political struggle to a higher, almost sacred level.

So much for the separation of Church and State!

Brooks noted Bannon's shift from mainstream conservative thought to a more militant, uncompromising stance. Bannon's worldview was shaped by disillusionment with globalization, the 2008 financial crisis, and the perceived detachment of elites from ordinary Americans. He framed Trump as a revolutionary figure akin to George Washington and Abraham Lincoln, claiming that the populist movement would reshape America.

In conclusion, Brooks' interview with Bannon revealed the latter's unwavering belief in the populist cause, his disdain for the establishment, and his readiness to fight, even from prison. Bannon's vision for the future is a profound transformation driven by a relentless, organized movement challenging the status quo. In the interview, Steve Bannon did not explicitly state that Trump will be elected in November. However, Bannon expresses confidence in the possibility or probability of a second Trump victory in the upcoming election, reflecting his belief in the strength and momentum of the populist movement.

III. Understanding Populism and Its Impacts on Business and the Economy

Populism can manifest in various ways, and its effects on business, labor markets, and the economy depend significantly on its goals and the interests it aims to promote. Populism centered on the wealthy and powerful often differs considerably from populism, which advocates for the broader public.

It's important to ask which brand of populism is reflected in its rise in America and elsewhere in the world.

A. What is Populism?

Populism is a political approach that seeks to represent the interests and voices of ordinary people against the perceived elite or establishment. It often involves charismatic leaders and rhetoric emphasizing direct engagement with the populace, frequently framing politics as a struggle between the common people and a corrupt or out-of-touch elite.

Let's take a brief look at the roots of populism in American philosophy. Several American philosophers and political thinkers have engaged with populism by supporting its principles or analyzing and critiquing populist movements.

John Dewey emphasized participatory democracy and the public good, advocating for empowering ordinary people through education and political engagement, aligning with populist themes. In "Achieving Our Country," Richard Rorty argued for progressive populism to address economic inequality and promote social justice. In "The Revolt of the Elites," Christopher Lasch critiqued the detachment of elites from the concerns of ordinary people, warning of a populist backlash. Michael Sandel has discussed the role of populism in contemporary politics, critiquing meritocratic elites and advocating for inclusive and egalitarian politics. Noam Chomsky has highlighted political and economic elites' manipulation of public opinion, aligning with some populist concerns through his advocacy for greater democratic participation.

B. Examples of Populism

One commonly cited example of populism is Franklin D. Roosevelt’s New Deal policies during the 1930s in the United States. Amid the Great Depression, Roosevelt introduced a series of programs and reforms aimed at providing relief to the unemployed, reforming financial systems, and promoting economic recovery. These policies were designed to address the needs of ordinary people, reduce inequality, and restore confidence in the American economy. The New Deal helped to rebuild the economy, establish social safety nets, and improve labor conditions, showing how populism can lead to widespread social and economic benefits when focused on equitable goals. However, some argue that the New Deal set the stage for the "Big Government" in America.

Another often-cited example of populism is the Nordic model, employed by countries like Sweden and Denmark. These countries incorporate elements of social democracy and populism, focusing on high levels of social welfare, economic equality, and substantial labor rights. This model has resulted in high living standards and low economic inequality levels, garnering broad public support. The success of the Nordic model demonstrates how populist policies can effectively promote the well-being of the wider populace by emphasizing social justice, economic redistribution, and comprehensive social services. However, some see the Nordic model as less about populism and more about socialism.

Populism can also lead to clear negative outcomes when it prioritizes the interests of a narrow group or employs divisive rhetoric. One such example is the rise of authoritarian populism in Venezuela under Hugo Chávez and Nicolás Maduro. Initially, Chávez's policies aimed at reducing poverty and redistributing wealth were popular, but over time, the government increasingly undermined democratic institutions, restricted freedoms, and mismanaged the economy. This led to severe economic crises, widespread shortages, and mass emigration, highlighting how populism can devolve into authoritarianism and economic collapse when checks and balances are eroded.

Was Brexit good or bad for the UK economy? Views differ on this question. The Brexit campaign in the United Kingdom was driven by populist rhetoric emphasizing national sovereignty and anti-immigration sentiments. While proponents argued that leaving the European Union would return control to the British people, the aftermath has included significant economic disruption, political instability, and ongoing debates about the benefits versus the costs of Brexit. Some see this case as how populist movements can exploit nationalistic and exclusionary sentiments, leading to long-term economic and social challenges.

C. Populism for the Many

When designed to benefit the broader populace, populism aims to lead to a more equitable economic environment. These populist movements often focus on reducing income inequality and ensuring that the benefits of economic growth are widely shared. By advocating for policies that increase wages and improve working conditions, populist leaders can boost consumer spending power, driving demand for goods and services. Labor unions are often seen as advocating for this type of populist policy. This increased consumption can benefit businesses by expanding their customer base and stimulating economic growth. Moreover, populism that prioritizes national interests and local industries can encourage domestic investment and innovation.

By creating a favorable environment for domestic businesses, such policies can lead to increased investment in local infrastructure, technology, and education, fostering a robust and competitive economy. Reducing dependency on foreign labor and goods can also incentivize businesses to innovate and improve efficiency, enhancing their competitiveness on the global stage.

Populism can also increase political engagement and accountability. Movements that arise from dissatisfaction with the status quo often lead to higher political participation among citizens. This increased engagement can result in more responsive and transparent governance, as politicians are held accountable to their constituents' needs and concerns. For businesses, this could translate into a more stable and predictable regulatory environment, where policies are designed to support economic development and address the specific challenges faced by the local economy.

D. Populism for the Few

On the other hand, populism that primarily serves the interests of the wealthy and powerful can have a different set of impacts. These forms of populism may focus on protectionist policies that prioritize national interests at the expense of global cooperation. This can lead to increased protectionism and changes in trade relations, disrupting global supply chains and affecting industries dependent on international trade. The resulting market volatility can increase costs and complexity for businesses, who may face new tariffs, trade barriers, and regulatory changes.

In the labor market, populist policies emphasizing job creation for local populations and reducing reliance on immigrant labor can lead to tighter labor markets in sectors traditionally reliant on foreign workers, such as agriculture, construction, labor-intensive manufacturing, and technology. Consequently, businesses might face higher labor costs and a greater need to invest in local workforce development and automation to maintain productivity and competitiveness.

For individual careers, the populist emphasis on national priorities can result in changes to immigration policies, potentially restricting opportunities for international talent mobility. Professionals may need to navigate a more complex landscape regarding job security, as populist rhetoric often targets industries perceived as benefiting from globalization at the expense of local jobs. These changes can affect career progression and opportunities, making it essential for professionals to adapt to the evolving job market.

E. Summary

Overall, the rise of populism introduces uncertainties and challenges, requiring businesses and professionals to stay agile and adaptable. By understanding these political shifts, they can better anticipate and respond to the evolving economic environment, ensuring sustained growth and career development in a changing world. Additionally, populist policies can influence economic stability by altering fiscal policies, impacting public spending, and reshaping regulatory frameworks that affect business operations and investment climates.

IV. Before You Say "Yes" or "No" to Populism, Think about These Five Points

Point 1: Americans should critically evaluate how populism addresses economic inequality and the potential long-term effects on wealth distribution in the country. Populist policies often claim to reduce economic disparity. Still, it is important to ask whether these policies will lead to a more equitable distribution of wealth or if they will favor certain groups at the expense of others. This question is crucial for assessing whether populism can create a sustainable and fair economic environment that benefits all citizens.

Point 2: Another penetrating question to consider is the impact of populism on America's international trade relationships and global economic position. Populist movements frequently advocate for protectionist policies, which can disrupt international trade and alter the country’s role in the global economy. Examining how these changes will affect economic stability, competitiveness, and relationships with key trading partners is essential. Understanding these dynamics is vital for predicting how populism might reshape America's economic future on the world stage.

Point 3: It is also important to explore the effects of populist policies on job creation and labor markets in the United States. Will these policies lead to significant job growth in local industries, or will they create labor shortages in sectors that rely on immigrant labor? This question helps assess the effectiveness of populist policies in fostering a robust labor market and addressing unemployment and underemployment issues.

Point 4: Political engagement and accountability in the American democratic system can be profoundly influenced by populist movements. On one hand, populism can increase political participation and hold leaders accountable to the people. On the other hand, it can polarize the electorate and undermine democratic institutions. Examining this balance is critical for understanding the potential benefits and risks of populism in promoting a more responsive and transparent government.

Point 5: Finally, the implications of populist rhetoric and policies on social cohesion and national unity in America must be scrutinized. Populist movements often use divisive rhetoric that can impact social cohesion and exacerbate divisions within the country. It's important to consider how these movements influence national unity, public trust, and social fabric. This question helps to evaluate the broader societal impacts of populism beyond just economic and political dimensions, ensuring a comprehensive understanding of its effects on American life.

About the Author: You can learn more about my work here.