ThinCats GC & Company Secretary, Ian Ilersic

When Ian Ilersic Ilersic made the leap from partner at DWF to 德意志银行 , he stepped into a role where, by his own admission, his entire team was technically more competent than he was on day one. That kind of humility and willingness to learn has served him well throughout his career, leading him to his current role as General Counsel & Company Secretary at ThinCats , where he’s helping drive the growth of UK SME lending.

In this interview, Ian shares valuable insights on everything from managing hybrid teams to implementing AI policies. His practical advice on transitioning in-house and building trust across business functions comes from real experience – including what he learned from challenging early days at Deutsche Bank.

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Our interview with Ian originally appeared on the Florit Legal blog.

For those not familiar with ThinCats, please tell us a little more about the business.

ThinCats is a leading alternative lending provider, dedicated to the mid-sized SME market in the UK. It provides funding to enable entrepreneurs to turn their ambitions into reality. ?Funding takes the form of business loans from ￡1m-￡20m, which are tailored to the needs of mid-sized businesses via bespoke and flexible solutions and through the use of pioneering data which helps speed up the funding process, increase transparency and build long-term relationships with clients. ThinCats strives to provide the best possible funding solutions to help mid-size businesses thrive and its progressive approach has already enabled SMEs to borrow more than ￡2.0bn.

What factors made you choose to become ThinCats General Counsel?

I like taking opportunities to go beyond my comfort zone. I had done a number of secondments, but my first permanent in-house move wasn’t until I was a partner with DWF. My practice was a mix of leveraged finance and real estate finance and an opportunity came up to join Deutsche Bank. I had no investment banking experience so there was a degree of risk in moving from a role where I was comfortable and competent into a role with a lot of unknowns. I first moved to lead a team focused on prime finance and securities lending. It needed a degree of humility to build trust with the team given that on day one they were all technically more competent than I was! It was definitely a case of rolling up my sleeves and learning by doing. I subsequently became head of the bank’s wider legal team in Birmingham (responsible for around 40 people) before a global restructuring in the bank. This resulted in me having 6 months to close the team down after which I took redundancy. I had a number of options including going back into partner roles in large firms, but at the time what interested me more was joining a smaller firm and looking to build up a banking practice. I was then approached about the Thincats role. It appealed to me because it is a high growth business supporting a key segment of the UK economy. Joining as GC provided a real opportunity to put in place the right framework to support continued sustainable growth.

What makes it a good place to work?

The rapid pace of change means that there is plenty of variety and challenge. I can see that what the legal team is doing makes a tangible contribution to business success. We’ve hired some people with great experience from other organisations. Everyone is contributing to the continued growth of the business in supporting the vital SME part of the UK economy.

My role is broader than legal as I am also company secretary. Whilst it is not essential to serving as a company secretary, I decided to take the fast-track route to qualification through the Chartered Governance Institute UK and Ireland. Being company secretary gives me a greater role in wider business governance.

What are the key issues facing the business and how do these have an impact on you and your legal team?

The interest rate environment is important for us as a lender and for our SME borrowers. A stable economic and political environment is necessary to generate confidence to borrow. The change of government and first Labour budget are key issues which directly or indirectly are likely to affect our business. The legal team has to be proactive in looking out for any regulatory changes which could impact us or our borrowers.

What would you say are the biggest challenges for in-house lawyers right now?

I think most in-house lawyers, regardless of the size of the business, would say that resource constraints present a challenge. Prioritisation is key. I need to make sure that finite resources are directed towards high-risk and high-reward areas so that the objectives of the legal function are aligned with the objectives of the business. Since my first in-house experience as a secondee, I would say that there is a requirement to achieve more with fewer resources and greater regulatory challenges for legal departments to navigate.

What makes a great relationship with external lawyers from your perspective?

Trust is important. I try to see all of our panel firms regularly to keep them up to date on what is happening in our business and to provide feedback. Equally, I want honest feedback from our firms on what we do well and where we could do better.

When you recruit lawyers, what are the key things you look for??

I’ve been part of large and small teams in different businesses. The needs change depending on the role and the business, but there are some common traits that I look for. Core technical skills for the role are a must. There also needs to be a willingness to listen to and learn from the wider business. Curiosity about how the business works, the risks it faces and the environment it operates in is fundamental to being effective. Equally, I try to paint a very realistic picture of the role, the team and the business. This helps to ensure that expectations are not mismatched and is particularly important for those who are making their first move in-house. In a rapidly growing business, you have to be willing to embrace change.

You took a slight detour before joining the legal profession, didn’t you?

I did a law degree but wasn’t sure that I wanted to be a lawyer. Following graduation, I joined the graduate program for Royal & Sun Alliance Insurance. In this role I moved around different parts of the insurance business and worked in different offices around the UK. I also took my exams to qualify as a chartered insurer. I ended up working in the group legal department in London and this gave me a better insight into law in practice rather than the academic law studied at university. I wanted to experience different areas of law so decided to qualify with a law firm rather than in-house. I secured a training contract with Wragge & Co (now part of Gowling WLG) thinking that I would probably end up in insurance law given my previous experience. I ended up taking a different path again and qualifying into the banking and finance team. I think working in a business role prior to qualifying helped me to see things from the client perspective when giving advice.

Have you ever been coached in your professional life and how do you think this benefited you?

I have had the benefit of coaching at different stages of my career. I think this benefitted me most during the time leading to partnership and after becoming a partner. I found that in many cases just articulating out loud what I was thinking about in relation to particular issues helped to find the answers I was looking for.

What advice would you give to someone in practice looking to move in-house?

If you have secondment opportunities through your law firm they can provide an insight into working in-house. Speak to people already working in-house to get a feel for the work. In the same way that there are hugely different law firms to work for, there is a wide range of in-house roles.

It is not always the case, but in many in-house roles you will need a broader knowledge of different areas of law rather than focusing on expertise in one particular area.

What makes a great in-house lawyer?

Being approachable is important. If there are any legal issues to resolve, you need to know about them. The earlier you know about them, the more chance there is of successfully resolving them and mitigating any negative impacts. People need to feel that they can come to legal for support. Being calm also helps. You won’t know the answers to everything, but you can instil confidence that you will find solutions.

How should a newly recruited in-house lawyer tackle their first 100-days??

Speak to as many people across the business as you can. Try to understand how the business works and where everyone fits in. Ask lots of questions. Colleagues are generally open to someone wanting to find out about what they do, but it is much easier to do as a new joiner.

At what point in the growth curve would you say a business should hire its first in-house counsel?

The answer will depend on the nature of the business and the regulatory environment it operates in. Some businesses will need an in-house hire very early on. Others may be able to operate perfectly effectively with external support as and when required. There are a number of lawyers operating as fractional GCs. For scaling businesses, this can be a cost-effective route to ensure that key legal issues are addressed before a permanent hire is justified.

What particular pieces of legal tech are indispensable??

There isn’t always a need for “legal tech” opposed to just “tech”. We are fully cloud based and a lot of work has gone in to simplifying the technology stack. There will be cases where specific legal tech is needed, but there are also many examples where technology being used elsewhere in the business can be leveraged.

What are the challenges around AI?

From a risk perspective it was important to get a policy on use of generative AI in place. Ensuring that people know what they can and can’t do, and what information they can and can’t use is important to protecting the business against leakage of confidential information. There are frequent webinars and events from law firms on use of AI. It will undoubtedly change the way legal services are delivered but at this time we are seeing incremental rather than transformational change. Some of our panel firms are working on their own proprietary tools and investing heavily. Others have consciously decided not to be first adopters and are following developments in the market.

What’s your approach to things like team wellbeing and hybrid working?

We discuss workloads regularly and reallocate as required. When we are very busy, I can help my team with prioritisation and with managing expectations across the business. It’s important to operate as a team and support each other.

Leading a small team can be isolating so keeping in touch with peers is important. There are also some in-house focused networks such as the excellent Crafty Counsel.

Most people across the business are working on a hybrid basis. I average 3 days per week in an office and try to plan my week so that meetings are face to face where possible. Where I have tasks that need some quiet time set aside, I try to do those on the days that I am working from home.

What jobs did you take on before headed down the legal route? ?

I had some interesting jobs as a student. I worked in a mushroom farm. I spent a summer driving a van full of beer to events at pubs and bars around the country. I drove a small water tank around Birmingham at night watering flowers. I was also a screen-printer.

Who would you most like to “get stuck in a lift with”?

Bob Mortimer. I loved the stupidity of Vic and Bob in the 1990s and now I enjoy watching Bob’s love of fishing, despite not being particularly good at it. He’s also written a couple of decent books. I would ask him how much he regrets giving up being a solicitor for a career in entertainment.

What book would you recommend me to take on holiday and what do you enjoy reading most?

The Book that Wouldn’t Burn by Mark Lawrence. I love it when a plot is so imaginative that I could never have come up with it. I like science fiction and have also re-read all of the novels of Iain M. Banks this year.

Any hidden talents??

It’s by no means a talent, but I enjoy running. I’ve done a number of marathons but the years of personal bests are behind me. I run for fun now, mainly off road. Canals and disused railway lines are great as they are flat or have only a gentle gradient!

Favourite film?

No Country for Old Men. Often when I see a film adaptation after having read a book, the film disappoints as it is not how I imagined it. This is an exception.

Favourite holiday destination so far, and where’s next?

Skiathos. I also love Barcelona and have visited many times. It’s sad to see it now struggling with the negative aspects of mass tourism and trying to balance that with the economic benefits.

What do you enjoy doing when you are not working?

I like gardening to unwind. Having moved to a new house last year, there is lots to do.

Most embarrassing moment?

Having organised a weekend away for a group of 10, turning up at the hotel to discover that I had booked the wrong weekend…

Besides being a lawyer, if money were no object and you knew you couldn’t fail, what would you most like to try or do?

Own a traditional sweet shop somewhere picturesque. If anyone visited Edward & Vintage in Tissington in the Peak District before it closed, that’s the type of shop.

Most annoying phrase you’ve heard at work.

“Quick question”. The question is usually quick, the answer often isn’t! Teams can be great when used well, but it can also kill productivity if there are lots of “quick questions”. It’s important not to get distracted and become reactive. Setting aside time to respond to these requests and to emails allows time to be set aside for more structured work.

What would you say is your guilty pleasure?

Car restoration TV programmes. Maybe one day I will have learnt enough to tackle a project.