Talking with Margherita Sgorbissa

How do you define yourself today and when did you realize you wanted to work on D&I? 

A few years ago, I enrolled in a Gender Studies program at Humboldt University and worked part-time in HR on the side. I could see correlations between what I was learning in university and the dynamics at work. My training allowed me to grasp some of the patriarchal structures and intersectional discrimination structures at play in the workplace.  Didn’t the hiring process tend to favor the same candidate profile-(mostly White,  European, English native speakers)?  Are the feedback sessions and promotion policies thought-through enough? It looked like people who were louder or more extroverted had more chances to be promoted. Finding real case studies in the work-life fueled this passion. 

Today, I no longer work as a D&I consultant. I am transitioning into the community-building space as a transformation coach and strategist for people’s organizations and groups. I help them strengthen their community-building practices and engagement. I believe that communities (beyond the business area) are the space for real transformations.

Why the shift? Have you encountered any form of resistance as a D&I consultant?

The primary issue I saw was that many companies wanted to have one-time training.  This is not how I work. Diversity and inclusion are a transformation process. It can be uncomfortable and involves leadership coaching, team building, and team communication. One-time training is, for me, just performative. 

Besides, I realized I was also staying in a bubble by focusing only on the workplace’s diversity and inclusion aspects. I wanted to be engaged in purpose-driven transformations. Whoever works with community building in mind already works with a diversity and inclusion mindset.  

In the business world, growth is the main priority and the mentality is oriented towards having D&I strengthen the team for the sake of productivity.  Some of the downsides I see are a result of this mindset. 

Isn’t it the case for every company: promoting D&I as a way to increase productivity, therefore making the company thrive? 

D&I is tied to the idea of equity and Human Rights. It is work that strives for breaking traditional privileges and toxic systems of power within the workplace, allowing the development of new structures and fostering cultures of radical and intersectional inclusion. This work strives for acceptance of people's uniqueness and differences. It's also about leveling up our standards for justice and equity in society.

One could sell this as a way for companies to increase productivity or business growth, but for me, the point is somewhere else. Companies are responsible for overcoming specific structures of oppression because the workplace is one area where this system of oppression has the highest and worst impact. 

In other words, this work is not about telling companies that they shouldn't discriminate - for example, against people of color or women - because this will lead them to make more money. They should do so because if they discriminate against women or people of color it is illegal (at least in Germany according to the Allgemeine Gleichbehandlungsgesetz"/ General Act on Equal Treatment), because it violates human rights, and it forms discriminatory and oppressive systems that are simply not acceptable.

Let’s try to be a bit provocative here: isn’t it how D&I is “marketed” at the moment? The argument being that if you do want a productive team, you also need diversity?

I feel that force. With larger budgets to dedicate, larger companies are more equipped with resources to invest in the work. However, we need to be careful: bigger companies with bigger budgets do not automatically equal better work! It just means they have the budget to hire experts or more consultants and can afford to put “something” in place. This work does, often, still follow a performative approach. 

On the other end, I see startups sometimes struggling for profitability but investing in D&I nonetheless. They usually start with some initiatives. And this is promising. The problem is that they might fall into the pattern of doing performative work as well or losing continuity throughout their growing process. After the Black Lives Matter movement reached its global momentum last year, a few companies opened new roles in Berlin. Let’s be clear though, hiring a D&I manager will not fix sexism, racism, ableism in companies overnight.

Overall, we need to be careful about what is being claimed. We are still lacking visibility and transparency about what is being conducted and what the results could be. It is tough to distinguish good work from performative work.

Some might say having initiatives and opening new roles is a way to start...

I agree. Better having something in place and starting from somewhere than nothing at all. I am saying that we need to take what is being represented with a pinch of salt. Let’s not collectively forget that our capitalistic culture’s core is to hold power and privileges in place. In that sense, it creates an atmosphere and sets of priorities that are almost incompatible with D&I sometimes. 

To tackle D&I within business organizations we need to review the models: how we work together, how the production systems work, and how leadership works. I do not know many companies willing to radically review their systems because it is an uncomfortable process to go through. 

How do we go through that? Let’s say I am a manager in a brand new D&I role. It is the starting point - there is buy-in from the management and the organization is willing to invest in this area (budget and people resources). 

What I have done and recommended in the past is to: 

• Start by assessing the context - every company has its ecosystem environment (team members but also partners)
• Know why you want to do it. What is the goal for this D&I process within the company? How does this serve the company? Ask yourself, “what triggered the question?” The answer could already be an interesting first signal. 
• I cannot stress enough how essential the collaborative and collective aspect of this work is. For example, people from underrepresented groups have to be involved, but they should not be given the full responsibility to lead this work. There should be clearly defined responsibilities so that a system of safety and accountability can emerge. In the end, it is about people coming together. Companies can do this only by building empathy and working cross-levels, between departments, and across different seniority levels. 

Loving it! Mainly because this type of work - this is an assumption of mine - starts with very engaged and passionate people. Sometimes, the people who voice it first belong to these underrepresented groups…

Exactly. There has to be a strategy and vision for that. We all need to understand that D&I work is not a project. It is a process. It is an ongoing process - a constant developing framework, on top of which we can integrate many projects. The two most important words here are “ongoing” and “developing.” 

Want to have the perfect diversity inclusion initiative or the final word on what D&I is? Well, perfectionism is part of how a system of oppression manifests itself. We revolve back to the end goal: is it to continuously do the work or have the most likes on LinkedIn?  We risk falling into performative work again here. I believe that some of the best diversity and inclusion work is done by not mentioning "diversity and inclusion"...

What do you think 2020 has changed in this space?

I think that 2020 was a critical year that proved work can be done differently. With the pandemic and the sudden only-remote policy, lots of companies had to change their perspective. They realized they could trust their employees and allow for flexibility. Learning that your collaborators and employees can work from home without being controlled or micro-managed is already a form of diversity. 

At the same time, 2020 also amplified multiple structural inequalities and made it even harder for some categories of people to have equal access to opportunities. Women with parenting responsibilities are amongst these categories. The number of women forced to quit their job due to the pandemic is disproportionate.

The world is changing, yet the workplaces and society are not making an effort to ensure that no one is left behind. This is worrying and needs to be addressed further.

What do you think is particular about Berlin?

Berlin tech is booming and has been compared to Silicon Valley on many levels. But the US has a very different context. There, many companies have had their share of struggle with diversity and inclusion. They started implementing initiatives years and years ago. The scene there, though it is specific, is way more advanced than ours here.  The Berlin tech space has developed rapidly, but what about the level of D&I awareness in the process? 

We are still debating whether or not D&I is even relevant for some companies. We have a long way to go. 

You mean, the Berlin tech scene is catching on a train going very fast, quite suddenly without time for self-reflection? 

It is true that here in Berlin, we're just starting (as a tech space but also in D&I). I again hear from many startups “we cannot focus on that right now.” It should be the other way round. We are just starting; therefore, we have the opportunity to do it right from the beginning as a foundational value. 

I have met leaders and managers who have not been exposed to these topics, and even less in their business schools. It is okay not to know much or everything about social justice, but in 2021 it is not okay to be unwilling to learn more about it or ignore the issue.

?Talking about education, do you have any books/ podcasts/ recommendations? What are your go-to resources? 

In terms of initiatives, I can mention the Black in Tech group in Berlin. They are doing a great job at supporting companies in their recruiting efforts. They provide a platform for candidates of color from diverse backgrounds other than White or European backgrounds. 

In terms of resources, my go-to people are anti-racism advocates - Layla Saad, Rachel Cargle, the Feminist Coaching Academy group and the board committee -. I also love Brenee Brown's work (especially around Daring greatly and the work she does around deconstructing traditional leadership models advocating for collective growth, kindness and justice), The Winters Group, and Catalysts from Canada.

It is also about staying informed on an overall level, getting out of the “business,” “productivity,” “new ways of working” bubbles. It is also about understanding the current problems people are experiencing: what are the human rights issues right now? What are the feminist hot topics right now? What are the struggles faced by the LGBTQIA+ community at the moment? Sometimes a simple search brings a lot of food for thought.