A Tale of Two Franchise Podcasters - Scotty Milas and Martin J. McDermott

I've met countless wonderful people over the years through podcasting. One key practice I recommend to new podcasters is transcribing interviews. A single podcast episode contains a wealth of valuable content that can be repurposed for social media. Moreover, transcripts include important keywords that can improve search engine visibility. Below is a transcript from my interview on Scott Milas's podcast, All Things Considered Franchising.

Scott Milas: Hello, everybody; welcome to another episode of All Things Considered Franchising powered by Scott Milas Franchise Coach. I am your host, Scotty Milas. All Things Considered Franchising is a podcast dedicated to the franchising industry, entrepreneurs seeking to get into the business for the first time, and people looking to diversify a portfolio in a range of subjects. ScottMilasFranchiseCoach.com is a consulting organization I founded many years ago that helps people research and explore business ownership, build a business model, and then introduce the opportunities that fit. I have a very interesting guest today and somebody I've kind of, we've just kind of watched each other for over, gosh, it's got to be over ten years now. And we thought it would be a great idea to be on each other's podcast. So, I guess I drew the short straw, and I'm first. And I'd like to welcome Martin McDermott, president and founder of Franchise Interviews. For anybody who has been watching podcasts and looking for franchising information, Franchising Interviews is a leader in that category, having been around for almost 17 years or 17 years now. Martin is also a professor at Purdue University in their global division, teaching marketing, correct?

Martin J. McDermott: Yes, that's right.

Scott "Scotty" Milas, CFE : Welcome to the show, Martin.

Martin J. McDermott: Thank you, Scott. Like I said, it's a privilege to speak to you face to face finally. As I mentioned earlier, I feel like I know you already, so I'm talking to an old friend. So this is a privilege for me.

Scotty Milas: You know, you and I, since we've circled the globe here in franchising, we won't go into, you know, ages or anything, but we've been around the block. You certainly have had your finger on the pulse of the franchising industry, but there have been many changes over the years. What's happening in California and other states has become a political topic. But franchising still is a reliable and a, what's the word I'm looking for, just a reliable opportunity or option for people to explore in business ownership. Please give us your take, what you see in the franchising industry, and your thoughts. Somebody out there is listening, saying, hey, I'm thinking about it, but I don't know what to do now.

Martin J. McDermott: Yes, it is interesting for me, Scotty, because when I got into franchising in 1999, there were only about 1,200 different systems. From what I remember the IFA reported. Today, I am curious to know how many we're up to. It's like 2,500.

Scotty Milas: 4,000.

Martin J. McDermott: Is it 4,000?

Scotty Milas: 4,000, that's what the last IFA meeting had, 4,000.

Martin J. McDermott: That number keeps increasing, doesn't it? I always ask, when will it stop at some point? You know, you see more industries franchising all the time. And that could be a good thing or it could be a bad thing. You know, what I love about franchising, Scotty, -someone said this on my show, and I forget who it was; I'm going to have to go back to give him credit, but he said that franchising is an unfair advantage in the sense that if you think about it, with franchising you're getting, and I'm preaching to the choir, but you're getting two essential things. You're getting one, a sophisticated system that someone has worked on for a long time. And you're also getting a strong brand in some cases but not all cases. But if you have those two things that take a very long time to build, you're starting; if you think about the analogy of baseball, on third base, right? As opposed to starting on first base. So your chance of getting home is much quicker or you have a greater chance of doing that. And that's what I love about franchising: the opportunity.

I study it, too, Scotty, on a scholarly level. I mentioned to you that I have six publications on franchising. Yes, so I go deeper; when I'm doing a podcast, how can I apply this to research, you know, and get it published in a scholarly journal? So, that's one of the things that I do as well. Amazingly, I've been doing this show for 16 years. I've done about 850 interviews.

Scotty Milas: Wow.

Martin J. McDermott: Yeah, and one of the questions that I always ask at the end of the show, which I'm going to ask yourself when I have you on it, is what advice would you give to an aspiring entrepreneur looking to buy a franchise? And it's so interesting, Scotty, because I don't know if you can guess the number but over 50% of the time, my guests will say to me, do something you're passionate about. And that's important, right? You want to do something you love and love, but there's got to be more to it than that.

?Scotty Milas: I 150% agree with you. It isn't always a passion. Passion is great, don't get me wrong.

?Martin J. McDermott: Of course.

Scotty Milas: But, you know, in marriages, there are many passions, but there are many bumps in the road, too.

Martin J. McDermott: Right. And our show, Scotty is more of an introductory point for aspiring franchisees. We introduce entrepreneurs to different particular brands, & different topics. And then, once someone comes to our webpage, if they find franchising to be a viable opportunity, they go to guys like yourself. You know what I mean? Because someone must do their homework. They need much guidance from franchise consultants like yourself. In the old days, we used to call them brokers, right?

Scotty Milas: Correct. Yes. Consultants are the new professional word.

Martin J. McDermott: Right. Absolutely. And that makes sense. I appreciate your service so much, Scotty. One of the guests I had on my show, and it was so long ago, but there were these two gentlemen and they were looking to get into franchising. They used a franchise consulting service. I am trying to remember which one it was. But when the franchise consultant came back to them, she recommended window cleaning as a viable opportunity for them. And both of them looked at her, like, are you crazy? To make a long story short, they got into it; it was Fish Window Cleaning, if I remember correctly.

Scotty Milas: Yeah, we know the brand, yes.

Martin J. McDermott: They loved it. I mean, they were so happy. But, if it weren't for a franchise consultant, they may have steered towards some other opportunity that they said, okay, we're passionate about it. They weren't passionate about window cleaning, right? Nevertheless, it turned out to be a fantastic opportunity for them. And you know, franchising doesn't discriminate. I mean, you can have a high school education, you could have a doctorate degree, or master's; it doesn't matter. It levels the playing field for everyone. And that's what I love about franchising, Scotty. If someone wants to be an entrepreneur but may need to learn how to be an entrepreneur, franchising is a wonderful opportunity.

Scotty Milas: Yeah, it is—just two comments about what you said about the two gentlemen you used for the window cleaning. I think sometimes, and one of the practices and conversations I have with my clients, that sometimes ego gets in the way of a decision process. Window cleaning or portable toilets, or they're uncomfortable sitting around the dinner table talking to friends and saying they own a window cleaning business. Yet, they don't see the upside to where their goals are, that it gets them to their goals or could potentially get them to their goals. The other thing is that it's research. Look, you've been around the block, and everybody, it seems to be the white flag that gets thrown up. I want to do some research, and you know, There's no better research than talking to the brand and then talking to the franchisees within the brand. Everybody says I want to go online. I want to do some research. I want to look at Google reviews or Yelp reviews, and I'm like, I'm saying, well, wait a minute. How often do you see a Yelp review that's positive? So if you don't have thick skin to handle reviews, then maybe you shouldn't be a business owner in any format, an independent or a franchisee. Let me ask you this, Martin. You've seen many people come across your airwaves, many people you've met, many successful people. You probably know some people that struggled. What do you see? Maybe there are one or two commonalities between the successful people in business ownership franchising and perhaps a couple of common threads of people who, you say, struggle with it a little bit. Right. Any advice to our listeners on that?

Martin J. McDermott: Yes. I'm sorry, I'm losing my voice. It's a great question, Scotty. And it sounds cliche, the answer I'm going to give you, but there's so much truth behind this. If you are going to get into buying a franchise, if you're a franchisee, you have to trust that system 100%. I had a woman on my show a long time ago. Her name is Julie Bennett . She wrote a book for Franchise Times. She wrote something in her book. I mean, it stood out because I said, oh my God, this is franchising. She was interviewing a franchisee, and I couldn't remember which brand it was because it's been so long since I've read the book. But the franchisee said that if the operations manual told me to write in red ink on Tuesday and blue ink on Thursday, I would do it. You have to go into it having that trust, don't you? I interviewed one of the most successful franchises of a brand, Liberty Tax, which you're probably familiar with. And so what I wanted to know the most, Scotty, was when I had this gentleman on the show is how did you become the top franchisee? You'll appreciate what he said. He said, all I did was what they told me to do. That was it. That was his response. You know, it wasn't like anything like I am this brilliant person; I have all these different traits and things like that. I just did what they told me to do. I had Tariq Farid of Edible Arrangements on the show, and he said the same thing about one of his most successful franchisees. He said do whatever this guy, referring to Tariq, and you'll be successful, and that's the truth, isn't it? If you are going to go into it, you have to follow the system. There's no – and I hate when I say this sometimes. I think entrepreneurs get upset, but there's no creativity in franchising sometimes.

Scotty Milas: You know what? You just hit the nail on the head because as we were talking before we started the air of the show, I had mentioned to you that I was down at a trade show down in the Dulles, Virginia area, Chantilly, through Franchise Expo, Michael Hyman and his group, Dennis. And I was speaking, and one of the questions was, why do people fail at franchising? And I said there are two reasons that people fail. One is that they go into this undercapitalized. Correct. There are really three reasons. Second, they didn't have their partner or spouse's support. So that kind of... Then the third one is that they didn't follow the process. They're trying to reinvent the wheel. So I always explain to my clients that if you are a process entrepreneur, someone who can follow a process, it's in the tea. I'm not saying suggestions or ideas are unwanted; they are wanted but must be uniform to the brand. But if you can follow 99.99% or 100% of the process, you will be successful. If you are an engineer-type process, somebody who likes to put together all of the manuals and the marketing plans and wants to be involved in every aspect of the business, then be an independent. Stay away from franchising.

Martin J. McDermott: And that's not easy to do.

Scotty Milas: No, it's not.

Martin J. McDermott: It's not easy to do, Scotty. Many times, people have asked me over the last 16 years, you have this podcast on franchising; why don't you go into franchising? I don't know how good of a franchisee I would be. Even though I greatly appreciate franchising, finding someone who will totally and 100% trust the system is complex. That is challenging. Dr. John P. Hayes, CFE said franchising isn't for everyone; it's not for most people. And I didn't understand the first time he said that when I was at one of these franchise shows. I was like, what is he talking about? You know, it's not for most people. Now I get it, 16 years later, you know. So it does; it takes a particular type of person to get into franchising.

Scotty Milas: There's a human psychology to this as well. As humans, our psychology is to push back, want to do something different or think we can do better. It's tough sometimes as a business person, especially in franchising, to sit back and say, okay, I'm going to do this and rely on somebody else, especially if you're the type of person that, you know, likes to tweak or, you know, just take a chance.

Martin J. McDermott: Right, right. And that's me to some extent—just a little. I have a bit of that in me, you know, Scotty. So that's why I would be hesitant to go into franchising, but I also greatly appreciate it. I don't know if you've ever read one of my favorite books, E-Myth Revisited by Michael Gerber . And I can't tell you how many times that book has been referenced on my show, whether from franchisees or franchisors. And I had the chance to interview Michael three times on my podcast. And that's one book I recommend before you get into franchising. There are many other good ones out there, by the way.

Scotty Milas: Yes, there are.

Martin J. McDermott: But that's one I would certainly look at. Yeah. You mentioned family support, too, Scotty. I'm glad you said that because this is very difficult, isn't it? You know, even better than I do, that, you know, you need that support, right? From your wife, your husband, your children. This is a big commitment, and you use the word marriage. And many times I compare it to a marriage. It's at least a ten-year commitment in many instances. So, you'll need that support from your family, and you want to meet their family as well.

Martin J. McDermott: I've heard this on your show; I can give you credit that you want to date a little, right? You want to meet the family, meet the parents, right? And see what is the culture like in that family. It's interesting how life can be applied to franchising, couldn't it?

Scotty Milas: Yeah, you know, look, I always shared a story many years ago when I was part of the burger concept. And, you know, we had a husband and wife team come into Discovery Day, and, you know, he was this big, gentle, bear, really friendly kind of guy. And she sat there with her arms crossed, didn't crack a smile, and got up 15, 20 minutes into Discovery Day and insisted that somebody go to Dunkin' Donuts for her. My point is that we had to call up and say, okay, Bob, congratulations, we're going to award you a franchise, but we have bad news. Well, what's the bad news, Scott? We can't grant your wife a franchise, so we will have to pass on this. Because it is, and the other thing is I've always used the analogy if your spouse or partner went out and spent $150,000, $200,000 without telling you or what it was about, would you be aggravated or reach into your savings account or retirement fund? So you're right. You don't always have to agree with the franchisor, but you got to get along.

Martin J. McDermott: Absolutely. I love that example, Scotty.

Scotty Milas: Yeah, so – but anything else about the industry to our audience out there, I mean about franchising, I mean you've used it. You used the terminology of like starting on third base. I love it. I may have to steal that from you and start using it; that's great.

Martin J. McDermott: That's okay; I stole it from somebody. Do you know where I got that analogy from, Scotty? A gentleman named George Naddaff founded Boston Chicken or Boston Market. He was a big Boston Red Sox fan. And he used that analogy, so I have to give him credit. I stole that one. So he gets credit for it, yeah. But that is a great analogy. Also, we touched upon the whole process of due diligence. I mean, I've often wondered, and I don't know this, you know it better than I do, is how long does it take to buy a franchise from the time you say, okay, I want to start looking up franchise opportunities to the time you make the decision. It's got to be a long process.

Scotty Milas: 90 to 120 days, if not longer. Yeah, if not longer, you know, because if you are going to honestly speak to franchisees that are currently in the system for the brand that you're interested in, that could take a long time too, you know, in setting up appointments, talking to them on the phone and things of that nature.

Martin J. McDermott: I imagine it's a very long process.

?Scotty Milas: Yeah, it's a, yep, it is. It's 90 to 120 days, if not longer. And to be honest with you, anybody who's really in a hurry, that's when I get a little concerned. Those are the people that I am concerned about. Hey, I'm in a hurry. I got to get this. I got to start a business. You know, I lost my job. I got to get, it's like, whoa, slow down.

Martin J. McDermott: Right. Of course. Of course. I like the franchise shows. I haven't been to a franchise show, Scotty, since COVID, so it's been about three years since I've been to one, but I miss going to those, you know? I used to go to the one at the Jacob Javits.

Scotty Milas: Yes, the big one. Put on my MFB.

Martin J. McDermott: I used to love to go to the shows, walk around and see all the new concepts and opportunities and get to speak to people, that were on my podcast in the past, because you feel like you know them once you interview them. And I have to start getting back out there and doing that again because those are a lot of fun, aren't they?

Scotty Milas: They are. This one I did this past weekend had close to 3,000 registrations. Really? It was just that it was nonstop from morning until close. It was both days, Saturday and Sunday. So, and it was nice, but these shows have a lot of what we call the embryonic brands, the ones that have just started franchising. There are a few name-pick brands there, but talking to people is great. I always find it interesting that when people come up to me, they go, can you help me find the perfect franchise? And I'm like, perfect? What's perfect?

Martin J. McDermott: There's no such thing, right Scotty? I had another gentleman on my show. He might have been in real estate at one point in his life, people would say to him, I want the perfect home, and there's no such thing as a perfect home when you're buying real estate, too. You're always going to find something wrong with that house, whether it's the windows or the basement or something like that. Franchising is very similar to that process. It'll never be 100% perfect. You will never find that 100% opportunity.

Scotty Milas: I think the best guidance I give people or at least try to give people is, look, you know, after 90, 120 days, and it's time to make a decision, if you're not excited about your potential, and that you feel that you could be a great business owner and maybe be the number one franchisee in the system, you probably shouldn't do it. That's really what it boils down to. There's always going to be fear and anxiety. You don't want fear and anxiety to be your decision driver, but fear and anxiety also drive more questions. If you're going into it to decide, being nervous and scared is okay, but you must have 150% confidence. It's like people who want to open a burger or a pizza concept today. They go, you know, the pushback is that, oh, there's just so many pizza and burger places and chicken and subs. And my comment has always been, yes, but it pleases the masses. There's a lot of opportunity. Right. And you have to be better than everybody else.

Martin J. McDermott: Exactly. You have to set your goals high, too, don't you, Scotty? You know, when I was speaking to Michael Gerber, he said something fantastic. He said most businesses fail, not because they think too big but because they think too small. And I thought about that for a while. I said that's very interesting. We should think beyond the one-unit franchise. And to say, I want to be the number one franchisee. That's a big goal, isn't it? Or I want to own two, three, or ten of them one day. And sometimes, that gets you excited when you set those goals high. Because sometimes if you fall a little short, that's okay. But if you set your goals low, go a little bit higher.

?Scotty Milas - Yeah, it's the person that says, hey, I got $100,000, I want to invest it in a business, but I want to make half a million dollars a year. Oh, yeah, great. Show me where you can find it, and I'll give you the $100,000.

Martin J. McDermott: Me too. Likewise.

Scotty Milas: Well, we've been talking to Martin McDermott, president and founder of Franchise Interviews and a marketing professor over at Purdue University Global. This is Scotty Myles. I host All Things Considered podcast, All Things Considered Franchising. Martin, any last words, any encouraging words for our entrepreneurs, whether you're looking to diversify a portfolio, add on, or do this for the first time, any other last encouraging words you want to pass on, and where people can get a hold of you or listen to some of your interviews and podcasts themselves?

Martin J. McDermott: No, absolutely, Scotty. I appreciate this opportunity to get to speak with you today. And as I mentioned, I will have you on my podcast. So I'm looking forward to that as well. So, your listeners can go to franchiseinterview.com. And again, they can hear every single interview I've done from day one, Scottie, to the very first interview we did back in 2006 with a franchise called PB Loco. It was a peanut butter franchise. They're not in existence anymore. That's the interesting thing too, Scotty, a lot of the franchisers, over the last 16 years that have been in my podcast, don't even exist anymore. Most of them are still out there, but there are situations where a franchise does not make it. So it's not a 100% guarantee. It's not a home run every single time. As you mentioned, there are so many variables to get into or consider why something works or doesn't work. But, again, I've been doing the podcast for a long time because I truly believe in the franchise model, the ability to get into a business with a strong, kick-ass system, and a great brand. Those are essential things, returning to that analogy of starting on third base as you can get home a lot quicker. So again, FranchiseInterviews.com, you can hear every single interview I've done up to this point, and it has been a privilege for me to get to speak to you.

Scotty Milas: Great.

Scotty Milas: This is Scotty Myles, your host today for All Things Considered Franchising. To listen to more of my podcasts, you can go to YouTube, Spotify, or Apple or go to allthingsconsideredfranchising.com, a brand-new website listing all of our podcasts. Or you can head to scottmilssfranchisecoach.com if you're thinking about or would like to start the journey of researching and exploring business ownership. As I tell people who start the journey, no is okay at the end of the journey. You aren't required to say yes. I think it sometimes takes a lot more courage to say no than yes, but it is an option to say no. So, Martin, again, it's great to have you. I hope we get you back in the next six months to see where the industry is. And I'm sure we'll be bumping into each other and enjoying the time eating those hamburgers with your son because I know I will thank you.

Martin J. McDermott: Scotty this is a privilege.

Scotty Milas: Scotty Milas, saying so long for now! #podcasting

You can hear the interview with Scotty and Marty by clicking here.

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About Dr. Martin J. McDermott

Martin J. McDermott, DBA, is the President and owner of Franchise Interviews. Dr. McDermott is also a Marketing Professor at Purdue University Global and served as a Faculty Advisor to the Collegiate Entrepreneurs Organization for the University Chapter. Marty McDermott has a BS in Marketing, an MBA in International Business, a Post-MBA in Entrepreneurial Studies from Fairleigh Dickinson University, and a Doctorate in Business Administration with a concentration in Marketing from Argosy University. Dr. McDermott is an expert in entrepreneurship and franchising.?Dr. McDermott was inducted as an honorary member of the Golden Key International Honour Society. The induction of Honorary Members represents Golden Key's appreciation and recognition of their positive contribution to society and allows them to serve as inspirational role models for their members. Marty also received a Top Podcasting Voice designation from LinkedIn.

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