Stop f*cking up interviews

This blog has come from when I tweeted asking what people might want to see me writing about now that I am committed to blogging again.

Colin Bowern was one of those who sent me a few tweets with some really good ideas and this one was centered around interviewing for hiring managers.

For those that have not read my blogs before, you should know that I do not outsource the writing or the editing and prefer they read in my personal voice, which is also quite sweary. If you are offended by swear words then probably do not read any further as I am unapologetically authentically myself.?

Thanks for staying. You should know before reading this that…..

I am very humble and also a very fucking good interviewer…..

For context:

I have probably interviewed 21,250 candidates in my time. Maybe more as I worked that out on the lower possible number of interviews I have done in my career.?

I actually tweeted this number before and people called bullshit on it. So I know what some of you are thinking….

You want the math, don’t you?

Okay, I worked that out that on average when I have been a recruiter I interview 4 people per day. Ave business days in a year = 250. I have been in recruiting for 15 years.?

4 x 250 = 1,000

1000 x 15 = 15,000 people.?

In a previous job I worked in for 5 years, I was a hiring manager responsible for pretty much just hiring salespeople and I did on average 5 interviews per day.?

5 x 250 = 1,250

1,250 x 5 = 6,250 people.?

15,000 + 6,250 =

21,250 candidates I have interviewed.?

As I said I am being lenient here as some days are 7 to 8 interviews, but I am not the best Dad on those days as I get home and do not want to talk to anyone so I limit those days.?

Anyway, the point I was trying to make is that I have interviewed a whole bunch of people and I have been refining my craft over the years. So when I give you advice now in this blog, know that it comes from more conversations than I can remember.?

Some, I wish I could actually forget. Like my first ever job interview as a hiring manager where I had a full-on panic attack as the candidate sat down for their interview. I politely excused myself to get him and myself water and went into the next room to breathe into a paper bag. Once I was able to center myself I walked back in without the water and did my first ever job interview. Needless to say, it was terrible and he did not want the job.?

Lucky I did not stop there, so I am able to write this blog on....

How to be a good interviewer

If you work in SaaS or even just tech and your company is growing, you probably find yourself in job interviews a lot and like me. You might be spending a lot of your days in interviews. The first thing you need to understand is that; this is now part of your job.

Some hiring managers I train on interviewing tell me that they are good at interviewing but it gets in the way of their actual job. I have to tell them. As you have just raised 20m NZD to grow your team by double, this is now part of your job.

Good interviewers make a conscious effort to get the most out of the interview process. Interviewing is hard work, but if you learn, plan, and execute a good interview. This will help you interview less in the long run, as you will hire the right people and not have to replace them.?

Preparation?

There are two types of interviewers usually. Which one are you, Peter or Stacey?

1. I am sorry Dom, the hiring manager Peter is just running late and will be with you soon. If you want to wait in that room, he will be with you shortly. Peter hurriedly enters the room 10 minutes later and says to Dom: “Hey Dom, nice to meet you. You are here for the DevOps role, right?? Dom: “No, I am here for the developer role.” Peter: “Ok sorry. Just give me 5 minutes to bring up your CV and have a quick read. Sorry, we are growing like crazy here and I have not had time to read it properly.”
2. Hi Dom, please come in and have a seat in this office here where Stacey is waiting for you. Stacey: “Hi Dom, thank you so much for coming in to meet with us and taking time out from your work day. I have read your CV in detail and so I it appears to be a good match on paper, though I am interested in doing a deeper dive. But before we start how was your weekend? Did you get up to anything fun?”

What we see here are the two usual hiring managers I come across in tech and the large majority of hiring managers are Peter. In this example, he is apparently so busy that he has not even read the CV. He will spend the first 10 minutes of the interview actually reading it on his MacBook while you are talking, and so he is not really listening to your first few answers. Even though the candidate is nervous and now worried they only have 40 mins left to impress. Peter dives straight into questions grilling Dom straight away rather than asking even just one ice breaker question to get the candidate into a more relaxed place where they can perform at their actual level. Peter did not see that Dom’s hands are shaking vigorously with nervousness because he is too hurried to notice. Peter is not a bad guy and is pretty much like most tech hiring managers I see. Not prioritizing interviewing as much as their other KPI's.

Stacey however is already sitting in the interview room waiting as she allocated 10 mins before the interview to re-review the CV. She knows exactly what Dom does and the areas she believes she needs to dive in deeper or ask about. Stacey does not dive in straight away and gives Dom the opportunity to talk about his weekend and sees that his hands have stopped shaking after 5 minutes and so only then starts with the actual job interview.?

Preparation is key.

Unprepared interviewers risk appearing indifferent. You can be perceived as looking aloof and unwanting of the candidate and or stressed with time and poor at managing your own time to the point where Dom might call me and say: “The job seemed great but I do not want to work under Peter as he does not seem like a good leader.”

Before you interview, do the following as a bare minimum.?

1. Read the candidate’s resume and either print out a copy for reference during the interview or be better for the environment and use an electronic copy.?
2. If the candidate has sent you some work examples, you should have already reviewed this as they are probably going to reference them. Be it portfolios, Github, content copy, or a blog they maintain.?
3. Know what the job is and make sure you have actually read the job description if you did not write it yourself. Also know what the bloody salary is if they ask, rather than saying I need to ask HR.?
4. Prepare a list of questions to ask (these should come from the why behind crafting the job description.) Make sure they are tailored to the actual job too, please.?
5. Refresh your knowledge of your company’s mission and structure, as well as the benefits and perks of the position you’re hiring for. Hiring is all about articulating the story of the company and why Dom and other candidates should work here. This is called the EVP (Employee value proposition) The best interviewers are selling the company as much as the candidate is selling themselves to the company.?
6. Make sure all of the panel in the interview know why they are in the interview and what you need from them. If you are bringing in your senior designer, tell them what you need from them and ask them to prepare also.?
7. Book the bloody room for the interview. There is nothing worse than stopping another meeting because you forgot or moving to a cafe where they can be seen interviewing with another company.?

Structure that shit

I love a good chat as much as the next person and if you have been interviewed by me in the past, you might think that you and I have just had a good old conversation, rather than an interview.

Though I have carefully thought about every question I asked you. What you do not know is that I have structured the interview to relax you to then be able to get the exact information I needed from you, nothing more and nothing less. I probably enjoyed the chat too though.

The more unstructured, the less job-related. If interviewers ask questions randomly and spontaneously, they’re risking evaluating traits that don’t predict job performance. Biases could run loose; interviewers might end up evaluating based on gender, race, physical attractiveness or, most commonly, how similar a candidate is to them. We all have bias and the first rule of creating a great inclusive workplace is to admit you might have them and stop the process of making biased hiring decisions.

Choose your questions wisely.

Generic interview questions suck and tell you nothing. As an agency recruiter who works with many clients, I might start my interviews with “What is your ideal role, what would you love to do if you could choose?” This is a great question to see what potential roles and clients this person may suit and gives me plenty more fodder to ask follow-up questions to tailor the interview.

However, if I was internally hiring for a role at Talent Army or onsite interviewing for a client and I asked that question. I would get the same answer every damn time.

“Well actually, this role is my ideal role. It is my dream job”?

I get it every time. It's cute but it is a waste of a question, as I know the answer before asking.

So think about the role you are hiring for and prepare a short list of questions tailored to the role. Behavioral and situational questions help you judge a candidate’s soft skills (like problem-solving and critical thinking.) Aim to ask the same questions to all candidates whom you interview for that role so you can judge accordingly and not with your boas view.

Practice note-taking. Use effective note-taking techniques, like the Cornell Method . Try to not just copy every_single_word_the_candidate_says. Doing this means you are not present for the interview and you might not be engaged to be able to ask a good follow-up question. I agonisingly taught myself to touch-type so I would be looking at candidates and engaging with them while taking notes.

Rate candidates’ answers with a consistent scale. I personally like the 1 to 5 rule here. I literally just mark 1 to 5 at the end of each answer. 1 being very poor and 5 being very good. This helps me to look back and calculate who performed well without my bias and if it is really close between a couple of candidates I can review my scores.?

Actually give a shit

It does not go unknown when you actually give a shit about people. Caring about candidates makes for good candidate experience and boosts your employer brand. Even if a candidate doesn’t get a job offer, they may still feel good about a company that treated them well. Thank them for coming in and giving up some of their day. They might be working back to make up the time they are missing at work, they might have taken a day of leave to interview and they probably gave up hours of personal time preparing for the interview.?

When interviewing candidates:

• Start with a warm welcome. Greet interviewees on time and make them feel welcome: smile, offer them something to drink and maintain eye contact as much as possible.
• Ease them into the process. Ask an icebreaker question or something they do not need to think about to answer you and to shake off the nerves.?
• Introduce yourself and your fellow interviewers, and briefly describe your role and why you’re hiring. This helps humanize your hiring process for candidates. Then, ask candidates to introduce themselves or walk you through their portfolio or work samples, if applicable.
• Focus on the conversation. Being distracted by calls or thoughts about future meetings can damage your rapport with interviewees. Instead, focus on what the candidate says. Put your damn phone and macbook on mute.?
• Allow them time to ask questions, and then answer their questions. Candidates want to learn about your company and open role. Answering questions will also give you the chance to pitch your company to candidates you think are doing well.?
• Take their fucking water or coffee back for them. They are your guest and don’t use stupid tricks to test a candidate. Tricks are stupid.
• Take your time. If possible, don’t schedule anything directly after an interview. Some candidates may have more questions than others and will appreciate more time with you. Rushing candidates out isn’t a pleasant way to close an interview.
• Write down your thoughts straight after on your Cornell Note summary section.?

Don’t be a biased asshole

Unconscious biases can cloud our judgment and lead us to wrong decisions. Combating those biases is key for good interviewers.?

Here are some ideas to achieve this:

• If you have worked with me, you have probably been sent an IAT like me pushing some sort of drug onto you. For me, it is the ultimate gateway drug to being a good human and hiring manager. Being aware of our biases. ?
• So, take an Implicit Association Test (IAT.) The first step in fighting biases is becoming aware of them. Harvard’s IAT can help you become more aware of your biases.
• Learn how cognitive biases work. Understanding different kinds of bias can help you recognize them when they’re at work.
• Use cool recruitment tech to help you, like Weirdly . With Weirdly, Bunnings achieved a?0% gender bias in their frontline recruitment. #NotAnAd but a cool thing I read and so wanted to share.
• Think about your unique prejudices. Personal concerns, preferences, and experiences may interfere with our judgement. For example, if an interviewer believes that overqualified employees will eventually get bored with their job, they may refuse to hire them. That way, they may miss out on talented people who might still have been valuable team members. Don't be scared to hire people smarter than you. You probably throw out that quote all the time but then reject based on someone being too smart.
• Don’t just hire your bloody mates. You moved to this company to grow, learn and increase your comfort zone. There's no point only hiring your previous team or mates. Reflect on what is next.?
• Slow down. Resist the urge to made a decision about a candidate before their interview ends. It’s best to make your decisions after you’ve met all candidates and have consulted your notes. Go into every interview with a positive mindset as an interviewer can really ruin an interview for someone if they are not centered.
• Distrust body language cues. Body language isn’t an exact science; some non-verbal cues may indicate many different things and vary across cultures.
• I'd like to phone a friend Eddie. If possible, ask one of your team members to join you when interviewing candidates. Your team member’s unique perspective paired with your own can help you make more informed and objective hiring decisions.

Learn from your mistakes

A good interviewer views mistakes and failures as opportunities to improve. As I mentioned a lifetime ago when I first started writing this blog, I suffer deeply from anxiety and panic attacks and so I have to center myself before an interview. It is ok to be nervous as an interviewer too.?

Here are a few things you can do to learn from your interviewing experience more deliberately:

• Put your notes in the Database, CRM, ATS, or even a bloody Trello board. Recording and filing your notes helps you as an interviewer since you can refer back to them at any time.
• Monitor results. Ask your teammates who are responsible for tracking recruiting metrics for information about candidate experience and quality of hire metrics. It’s also a good idea to keep track of your company’s online reviews on Glassdoor. Take constructive feedback to heart and work to improve on feedback you receive.
• Seek advice. Look for resources online (e.g. videos and tutorials) and, if possible, ask more experienced recruiters or interviewers in your company for advice. If you plan to interview often, you could also make a case for attending interview training or workshops.
• Read my free e-book ‘The A to Z book of interviewing ’ as it took me a long time and you will get some value. ?

If you have got to this point of the blog, you have read my free I am not a shitty stupid influencer e-book and you are still concerned. Give Talent Army a call as I have hired people WAY smarter than me.