Spotify’s Gustav S?derstr?m on building truly personalized experiences

“Some people say ‘my Spotify’ sort of as a friend, but it was always an analogy. I think it's entirely possible that some of these products actually become your friend.”?

In this week’s Building One, I talk to Gustav S?derstr?m , CPO, CTO and co-president of Spotify .?

There are just a handful of apps I use frequently throughout the day: LinkedIn (obviously!) and also Spotify. Whether it’s fueling my morning workout, tuning into podcasts during my commute, or playing my favorite playlists as I do the dishes, Spotify is always in the background. As a music lover, I appreciate the joy and convenience of a top-notch auditory experience wherever I am.

That’s why I’m thrilled to be talking to Gustav, who is a remarkable builder with an entrepreneurial background and a history of innovating across disciplines and domains. He landed at Spotify in 2009, heading up their successful transition to mobile, and has continued to innovate since towards a truly personalized experience in one of the most challenging and competitive industries.?

There are many incredible lessons to learn from Gustav. Here are a few of the top ones:?

The strength of combining nurtured skills with natural instincts

“I've been both founder and CEO of different companies, And I guess having that role, even for a few years, this forces you to learn everything, have that sort of helicopter perspective and the ultimate responsibility for everything.”

Gustav shared that his natural inclination is to go deep, but the realities of the tough job market he faced starting out necessitated that he become more entrepreneurial and learn a broader range of skills. The combination of those skills with his innate aptitude to go deep have made him a very unique builder who is able to build differentiated products. On a related note, his range of experiences have made him resistant to fitting into labels, which can really limit your thinking and prevent you from growing. For example, just because you are an engineer, it doesn’t mean you can’t extend yourself and innovate with business models, licensing deals or go-to-market efforts.?

A beginner mindset can be a disruptor mindset in complex ecosystem

Gustav freely admits that if he truly understood the complexities of the music industry, he probably would not have joined Spotify. The chances of success with music apps are crushing – but since Gustav came in with a beginner mindset, he was not weighed down with any foregone conclusions about what was possible. Sometimes, in order to disrupt an industry, it’s best if you don’t come from it. You’re unshackled from limiting beliefs…and while the journey and learnings are painful along the way, you are more likely to innovate vs. an incumbent builder.?

The advantage of having long-tenured employees

“Many of the people who work in my team, they worked for me for 12 years or 10 years, we have very long tenure, that was a clear advantage versus being in Silicon Valley.”

Spotify has benefited from having employees stick around a long time — which is unusual these days, especially in tech —?allowing them to see their bets through with patience and stability. As Gustav said, sometimes a three-year bet might actually take five years to realize. It’s hard to play the long game without depth and expertise.?

Have conviction on the problem to solve with flexibility on the solution

It’s important to have conviction on where the market is heading, but it is equally important to stay flexible with what the offering might be. Despite starting off as a desktop experience, even in its early days Spotify knew listening was going to be primarily a mobile experience. They knew that people loved listening on the go, whether in the car or on an iPod. But they weren’t entirely sure how it would manifest, so they experimented, keeping themselves flexible for what could come along. When smartphones came along, the experience they envisioned finally came to life.??

When it’s better not to “move fast and break things”

“I tried to develop counter phrases that would annoy people like, you know, talk is cheap so we should do more of it because it's much cheaper than writing code and certainly much more cheap than shipping the wrong thing, and rolling it back for six months.”

The oft-cited old Facebook motto “move fast and break things,” meant to encourage experimentation and speed, doesn’t make sense for the world Spotify operates in. Because of the contractual and licensing obligations they are locked into, breaking things could mean breaking the company. Seeing talk being cheap as a good thing, Gustav fosters a culture of debate and deliberation to game out major decisions — a process which may seem slower at first, but it delivers better, and maybe even faster outcomes when done well.

The value of explanations

“An instinct or great pattern recognition is very valuable. I want that in my senior leaders. It's kind of second prize. It's like silver. But first prize is if you can explain why you have that intuition, because then people can take it, they can run with it.”

Somewhat related to the previous takeaway is the importance of taking the time to explain your decisions as a leader. It’s not enough to base your thinking on principles, you need to share those principles with your team. Laying your rationale out not only helps in creating deliberate discussions but also helpful in creating a broader understanding across the company.??

Consider distribution advantage over design advantage

“Apple… pre-install themselves on all the iPhones in the world. We don't have that kind of distribution. So, if we managed to get ourselves installed on your phone, it is very valuable for us to be able to double down on”

When Spotify added podcasts and audiobooks to their offerings, there was a strong argument to be made for making separate apps optimized for these different experiences. Ultimately, they realized they would be at a huge disadvantage distribution-wise. Apple’s podcast player, after all, comes pre-installed on billions of devices. Spotify made the strategic decision to double down on their existing distribution as opposed to creating a new podcast-optimized app that would have to be adopted all over again by new users.?

What advantages play into your product? What trade-offs would you make in order to strengthen them?

Check out the full episode for many more great insights. Listen, follow and rate the show on Spotify , Apple or wherever you listen to podcasts.