The Speed of light and Time as explained in the Quran Part 1
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Now that we have looked Quran and hadieth and look at the Days of or the length of the day or days of Qiyamah and a day in this world as well as the days of creation in the proper perspectives
Re previous articles and posted below. Let us look further into this matter as well as the science.
The Speed of light and Time as explained in the Quran Part 1
Speed of Light = 12000 Lunar Orbits/Earth Day
1400 years ago it was stated in the Quran (Koran, the book of Islam) that angels travel in one day the same distance that the moon travels in 1000 lunar years, that is, 12000 Lunar Orbits / Earth Day. When the geocentric frame is inertial 12000 Lunar Orbits / Earth Day turned out to be the known speed of light!
You cannot talk about the speed of light without defining your frame of reference. The measured speed of light in local inertial frames is 299792.458 km/sec. So if you want to make a comparison with "299792.458 km/sec" then you have to make it in a "local inertial frame".
Special Relativity requires the frame of reference to be inertial (travel in a straight line). Since Earth (our local frame of reference) is orbiting the sun then it is not traveling in a straight line, hence it is non-inertial. So when we compare the nominal speed of light with 12000 Lunar Orbits / Earth Day inside the gravitational field of the sun (non-inertial frame) we get 11% difference; however when the geocentric frame is inertial we get zero% difference:
As long as Earth is not traveling in a straight line then any geocentric frame is not inertial, hence NASA's measurement of the lunar orbit is made in a non-inertial frame. So we have to calculate the lunar orbit in an inertial frame starting from the measured one in this non-inertial frame. We need to calculate 12000 Lunar Orbits / Earth Day when the geocentric frame travels in a straight line, on the other hand we already know that outside sun's gravity it would travel in a straight line. But from the equivalence principle we know that these two experiments are equivalent, that is, whenever Earth is inertial you will get the same results as if Earth is outside sun's gravity. We chose to calculate the lunar orbit outside sun's gravity because it is easier to calculate however these two experiments are absolutely identical:
In a local frame non-rotating with respect to sun the moon speeds up when it heads towards the sun and then slows down by the same amount when it heads away from the sun. However in a local frame non-rotating with respect to stars the sectors where the moon speeds up and slows down are actually moving forward inside the orbit by the same angle Earth orbits the sun. In this frame there is a rotational force around Earth. This means that the lunar orbit is influenced by a torque-like force around Earth (twist, assist). As the distance to the sun increases to infinity the lunar orbit loses this twist. When we remove the energy gained from this twist we can calculate the total energy and hence the length of the lunar orbit outside gravitational fields. When the Earth-moon system exits the solar system the geocentric frame travels in a straight line (becomes inertial) and 12000 Lunar Orbits / Earth Day becomes equivalent to the speed of light. The difference in this local inertial frame is 0.01%
Angels are low density creatures, and that God created them originally from light. They move at any speed from zero up to the speed of light. It is the angels who carry out God's orders. Those angels take their orders from a Preserved Tablet somewhere in outer space, and not from God's Throne. They commute to and from this Preserved Tablet to get their orders from God. In the following verse, then Quran describes how angels travel when they commute to and from this Tablet. And the speed at which they commute to and from this Tablet turned out to be the known speed of light:
Surah As Sajda 32:5
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(Allah) Rules the cosmic affair from the heavens to the Earth. Then this affair travels to Him a distance in one day, at a measure of one thousand years of what you count.
It is the angels who carry out these orders. Those people back then measured the distances neither in kilometers nor in miles but rather by how much time they needed to walk. For example, a village two days away meant a distance equivalent to walking for two days; ten days away meant a distance equivalent to walking for ten days... However in this verse the Quran specifies 1000 years of what they counted (not what they walked). Those people back then followed the lunar calendar and counted 12 lunar months each year. These months are related to the moon and not related to the sun. Hence in 1 day the angels will travel a distance of 1000 years of what they counted (the moon). Since this verse is referring to distance, then God is saying that angels travel in one day the same distance that the moon travels in 12000 lunar orbits. 12000 Lunar Orbits/Earth Day = distance/time = rate of motion (speed). However this speed depends on the frame of reference, that is, you could define million different frames and get million different results. But if you want to compare it with the speed of light in local inertial frames then you need to make then comparison in a local inertial frame.
The month for the Arabs was 29.5 Earth days, but Earth (the reference frame) was and still is non-inertial. 299792.458 km/sec is the measured speed of light in local inertial frames. These are different frames. To overcome this discrepancy in frames we are calculating 12000 Lunar Orbits/Earth Day when the geocentric frame is inertial and then comparing it with 299792.458 km/sec.
Have you noticed that when you spin on your toes your clothes fling outwards? And that when your spin slows down your clothes settle back inwards? This is what also happens when the Earth-moon system gains or loses rotational kinetic energy, the distance to the moon changes (hence the length of the lunar orbit changes).
Do you know why the same half of the moon always faces Earth? The moon has been facing Earth like this for more than 4 billion years. Just like Earth rotates on its axis once every day with respect to stars, the moon also rotates on its axis with respect to stars. Since the moon keeps facing Earth this means that the moon needs to travel 360 degrees around Earth with respect to stars in order to rotate 360 degrees on its axis with respect to stars. When the moon first formed it was very close to Earth and it orbited Earth once every few hours, today this period is 27 days, and as the moon continues to recede this period will continue to increase; the greater the distance from Earth the greater this period becomes. When this period becomes 50 days, for example, this also means that it will take the moon 50 days to rotate 360 degrees on its axis with respect to stars. So as the moon recedes from Earth its spin with respect to stars slows down, that is, it loses rotational kinetic energy (this is different from moon's kinetic energy due to moon's motion around Earth).
If the distance to Earth increases to infinity, the moon would stop spinning with respect to stars and hence its rotational kinetic energy decreases to zero. This proves that the moon's rotational kinetic energy is a function of the distance from Earth. Similarly the total energy of the Earth-moon system is a function of the distance from the sun, that is, as the distance to the sun changes the total energy of the Earth-moon system changes, hence the length of the lunar orbit changes. Since the distance to the sun is not a constant then a definition using Lunar Orbits/Earth Day inside the gravitational field of the sun is impossible. However when the Earth-moon system exits the solar system (becomes isolated) 12000 Lunar Orbits/Earth Day becomes equivalent to the speed of light.
In a heliocentric frame non-rotating with respect to stars light travels in a straight line, hence this is a perfectly inertial frame. However in this frame Earth DOES NOT travel in a straight line, hence the geocentric frame is non-inertial:
In a geocentric frame non-rotating with respect to sun the moon speeds up when it heads towards the sun and then slows down by the same amount when it heads away from the sun. However in a geocentric frame non-rotating with respect to stars the sectors where the moon speeds up and slows down are actually moving forward inside the orbit by the same angle Earth orbits the sun. In this frame there is a rotational force around Earth. This means that the lunar orbit is influenced by a torque-like force around Earth (twist, assist). As the distance to the sun increases to infinity ? decreases to zero and lunar orbit loses this twist. When we remove the energy gained from this twist we can calculate the total energy and hence the length of the lunar orbit outside gravitational fields.
Equation:
Distance traveled by angels in one day = 12000 x Length of lunar orbit.
?C t' = 12000 L'
Where:
Time / Frame of Reference:
This table below shows the lunar month and Earth day in both sidereal system (with respect to stars) and synodic (with respect to sun):
Every new moon (29.5 days) the moon will not return to the same point in the orbit (it will be at a different point). The moon returns to the same point in the orbit after only 27.3 days. When the moon returns to the same point with respect to stars the Earthmoon system would have moved 26.9 degrees around the sun (not 29.1 degrees):
Any astronomical measurement depends on the frame of reference. Your frame of reference is your clock and coordinate system (your ruler/axis and its orientation/rotation). When measuring 12000 Lunar Orbits/Earth Day in km/sec you could define million different frames and get million different results. However historically two geocentric frames were popular: the synodic and the sidereal systems. Both qualify as local frames however they differ by their rotation. The sidereal system is a local frame non-rotating with respect to stars, while the synodic system is a local frame non-rotating with respect to sun. The month for the Arabs was 29.5 Earth days which means they used the synodic system. The synodic system is a local frame non-rotating with respect to sun; however this frame is rotating with respect to stars. In the animation below the left side has two superimposed frames, one non-rotating with respect to sun (x,y) plus another one non-rotating with respect to stars (X',Y'). The right side has just one frame non-rotating with respect to sun (x,y):
Frame non-rotating with respect to sun is actually rotating with respect to stars. From Special Relativity we know that in inertial frames light should travel in a straight line, consequently an inertial frame cannot rotate with respect to stars. Why? Because in rotating frames with respect to stars light DOES NOT travel in a straight line, and the measured speed of light in these frames is undefined (the distance traveled in one hour gives a different speed than distance traveled in two hours...). Rotating frames with respect to stars by definition are non-inertial. In General Relativity the local inertial frames where the measured speed of light is 299792.458 km/sec are actually frames non-rotating with respect to stars (not non-rotating with respect to sun). So the Arabs used the synodic system which is a rotating frame with respect to stars, and the speed of light in their non-inertial frame is undefined.
From Special Relativity we know that in inertial frames light should travel in a straight line, consequently an inertial frame cannot rotate with respect to stars. Even if a frame does not rotate with respect to stars it should not change direction (frame should travel in a straight line). However gravity's obvious effect on frames is to change their direction of travel (makes frames travel in a curve): Consider a heliocentric frame non-rotating with respect to stars; in this frame light travels in a straight line, hence this is a perfectly inertial frame. But as Earth circles the sun then in a geocentric frame light will make a long sine wave (not a straight line). This is proof enough that the geocentric frame is non-inertial.
Gravity's obvious effect on frames is to change their direction of travel however it is General Relativity that accurately describes the effects of gravity on frames of reference: Gravity causes perfectly inertial frames to rotate.
Gravity Probe B experiment confirmed that inside gravitational fields it is impossible to define a non-rotating frame with respect to stars unless this frame exits the gravitational field or it enters a gravitational freefall towards the gravitational source straight in from afar (frame-dragging + geodetic precession). This means that for any geocentric frame to be non-rotating with respect to stars Earth has either to exit the solar system or to enter a gravitational freefall towards the sun (straight in from afar).
Hence it becomes important to distinguish non-inertial motion:
1. If you are in a spaceship and fire your rockets then you are not inertial.
2. If you are orbiting the sun then a gravitational force is accelerating you towards the sun; hence you are not inertial either (even if your tangential speed around the sun remains constant).
You can find the answer in:
General Relativity', Lewis Ryder, Cambridge University Press (2009).Page 7: "There are, however, two different types of such [non-inertial] motion; it may for instance be acceleration in a straight line, or circular motion with constant speed. In the first case the magnitude of the velocity vector changes but its direction remains constant, while in the second case the magnitude is constant but the direction changes. In each of these cases the motion is non-inertial, but there is a conceptual distinction to be made."
So inside the gravitational field of the sun 12000 Lunar Orbits/Earth Day make 11% difference with 299792.458 km/sec when compared in a local frame non-rotating with respect to stars (sidereal system); however this frame is non-inertial. When we calculate 12000 Lunar Obits/Earth Day outside the gravitational field of the sun then this frame would travel in a straight line + would not rotate with respect to stars (becomes inertial). The difference in this local inertial frame is 0.01%. Finally from the equivalence principle we know that there is no difference between an experiment in a local inertial frame outside sun's gravity and an experiment in a local inertial frame inside sun's gravity, that is, whenever Earth is inertial you will get the same results as if Earth is outside sun's gravity. We chose to calculate the lunar orbit outside sun's gravity because it is easier to calculate however these two experiments are absolutely identical.
You can find the equivalence principle in:
'Einstein's General Theory of Relativity, With Modern Applications in Cosmology', ?yvind Gr?n & Sigbjorn Hervik, Springer (2007).
Page 15: This means that an observer in such a freely falling reference frame will say that the particles around him are not acted upon by any forces. They move with constant velocities along straight paths. In the general theory of relativity such a reference frame is said to be inertial.
Einstein’s heuristic reasoning also suggested full equivalence between Galilean frames in regions far from mass distributions, where there are no gravitational fields, and inertial frames falling freely in a gravitational field. Due to this equivalence, the Galilean frames of the special theory of relativity, which presupposes a spacetime free of gravitational fields, shall hereafter be called inertial reference frames. In the relativistic literature the implied strong principle of equivalence has often been interpreted to mean the physical equivalence between freely falling frames and unaccelerated frames in regions free of gravitational fields. This equivalence has a local validity; it is concerned with measurements in the freely falling frames, restricted in duration and spatial extension so that tidal effects cannot be measured.
When the Earth-moon system is still inside the solar system the synodic frame rotates with respect to stars however when the Earth-moon system exits the solar system the synodic frame stops rotating with respect to stars. Since both the synodic and sidereal frames become non-rotating with respect to stars then the synodic periods become equal to the sidereal periods. This means that the lunar month with respect to the sun becomes equal to lunar month with respect to stars and Earth day with respect to the sun becomes equal to Earth day with respect to stars. So the 1000 lunar years with respect to sun become equal to 12000 lunar months with respect to stars.
For any valid comparison all measurements should be taken in the same frame. However most skeptics refuse to define their frame of reference, instead they use measurements taken in multiple frames. They insist on the synodic system which is a geocentric frame non-rotating with respect to sun (first frame). They use the velocity of the moon as published by NASA; however NASA uses the sidereal system which is a geocentric frame non-rotating with respect to stars (second frame). They falsely assume that the velocity of the moon in a non-rotating frame is equal to the velocity of the moon in a rotating frame. And finally they compare it to the speed of light in a local inertial frame; this is a non-rotating frame traveling in a straight line (third frame). So in the same equation they use measurements taken in THREE different frames!!! Physics wise this is garbage, all measurements should be taken in the same frame.
Length of Lunar Orbit
Length of lunar orbit = Velocity x Time (L = V T)
In a local frame non-rotating with respect to stars the velocity of the moon is not a constant. NASA measured the instantaneous velocity of the moon at various points throughout its orbit. These measurements show that the velocity of the moon varies considerably (from 3470 km/hr up to 3873 km/hr); which means that the moon accelerates and decelerates continuously. The average lunar velocity is Vavg = 3682.8 km/hr (1.023 km/sec).
The lunar orbit relative to Earth is a low eccentricity ellipse, however we cannot use the equation for the perimeter of an ellipse. Why? Because Earth lies on the major axis of this ellipse; but since the direction of the axes change with respect to stars then when the moon returns to the same position with respect to stars this does not mean that it made an exact ellipse (a local frame non-rotating with respect to the ellipse is actually rotating with respect to stars). So most astronomers calculate the length of the lunar orbit in a local frame non-rotating with respect to stars by the following equivalent circle method.
L = V T = 2πR
? V = 2πR / T
However this velocity is under the influence of the gravitational pull of the sun. We can vectorially calculate the velocity of the moon relative to Earth without the gravitational assistance of the sun and hence the isolated length of the lunar orbit: Displacement is a vector (has magnitude and direction) and from this displacement vector we get the velocity vector (magnitude and direction); and from this velocity vector we get the kinetic energy. If external work is done we end up with a resultant displacement vector, resultant velocity vector and resultant kinetic energy. In our case we have to backtrack.
The work done by the gravitational field of the sun by creating a net rotational force on the lunar orbit (twist) is:
In a local frame non-rotating with respect to sun the moon speeds up when it heads towards the sun and then slows down by the same amount when it heads away from the sun. However in a local frame non-rotating with respect to stars the sectors where the moon speeds up and slows down are actually moving forward inside the orbit by the same angle Earth orbits the sun. In this frame there is a rotational force around Earth. This means that the moon's orbital energy is the sum of the energy acquired from this twist plus the intrinsic energy of Earth-moon system (kinetic energy of Earth's spin transferred to the lunar orbit by ocean friction).
Please see and/or go to The Speed of light and Time as explained in the Quran Part 2
The time has come to choose will you not fear Allah and obey Him? Insha Allah you will pick the correct side.
I have thus discharged again my duty of conveying His message and advice.
If you like what you hear may you accept it and if not you can disregard it.
Allah Knows Best
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May He, for whom you have loved me, love you.
Barakal-lahu feekum
Unto Allah I commend thy faith, Thy trust and the consequence of thy work,
JZK
Allah Hafiz
Allah’s Property Mujaddid
Mahmoud Muhammad Ibrihim
(Of Sinai Peninsula )
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Aspiring Full Stack Developer | Proficient in HTML, CSS, JavaScript | Experienced in SQL and Data Analysis | Experienced in LIMS platforms
4 个月He keeps referring to thr inertial frames of reference but where is the distance covered by the moon in 12000 orbits/day, so we can work out the speed of light? I'm getting 335,416,666 m/s using 2,415,000km distance travelled in a lunar month, but obviously taking a circular orbits and not the elliptical orbits. Speed of light being 299,792,458 m/s so still a way out but its in the ballpark. Once I get these figures I'll get back to this thread. Whats worrying is that the lunar month is getting longer as the moon is moving away at 3 cm a year! But then found out it will take 70 mill years for it to increase by 8 hours https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/questions/49039/earth-s-rotation-speed-vs-rate-of-lunar-cycle, but then why does Islam use the measure of lunar month? As its not constant and is changing per sun orbit of the earth. Actually this guy has calculated with more accurate figures,https://kaheel7.com/eng/index.php/astronomu-a-space/249-speed-of-light-in-holy-quran, but that verse in the quran could also mean A day of Allah is like thousand years of man” rather than “Light moves in a day what the moon moves in a thousand years? No?
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1 年oooooh boy
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1 年So after all any results are provided in the second part ? ? seem lazy to carry on ?? ????? ???? ? ??? ?? ???? ????
Engineering Manager at BOXT
7 年Jubair Khan we were just talking about Muslim scientist :)
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