#SHRM23 Speaker Spotlight: Mark Fogel

As I am paging through the #SHRM23 sessions and speaker line up, I noticed that Mitch Albom will be speaking at SHRM23 in a General Session on Tuesday - he is the well known author of the best-seller, "Tuesdays with Morrie".?I recall seeing that there is a new companion book recently released: "The Wisdom of Morrie: Living and Aging Creatively and Joyfully." (by?Morrie Schwartz?(Author),?Rob Schwartz?(Editor))?In the book, they address how later life presents challenges, but it can also be one of the most rewarding seasons in a person's?life.

This?made me think about the correlation to Mark Fogel's session on Ageism - since the book examines?living with greater joy in one's later years and the false notion that people are somehow made less by the aging process and Mark's session will address the topic of Ageism in our workplaces.?

It's a timely topic: ?Chip Conley (formerly of AirBnB, founder of Modern Elder Academy) spoke at Transform 2023 in March and discussed age diversity and value of intergenerational collaboration in a company. He shared that a startling 14% of Fortune 500 companies measure age diversity in their HR metrics.

So I reached out to?Mark Fogel to talk about his upcoming session at SHRM23:

Age is Just a Number

In-Person?Wednesday 06/14/2023?10:30 AM - 11:30 AM???

Q1: First of all - what is Ageism? What does it look like in the workplace?

A1: Ageism is discrimination against individuals or groups based on their age. Ageism can manifest in many ways include personal, institutional, intentionally, or unintentionally (implicit). Ageist beliefs can negatively impact an older person's mental health and personal well-being.

Examples of Ageism:

• refusing to hire people over a certain age.
• asking for someone's age at a job interview when it is not relevant to the work.
• enacting policies that unfairly privilege one age group over another.
• viewing older people as out of touch, less productive, or stuck in their ways.

Q2: Considering the entire employee life cycle including the recruitment phase of the hiring process, how can we identify and correct potential ageism in our hiring practices?

A2: It starts with sourcing and marketing. Are we using words that appeal or apply only to younger workers such as “digital native,” high energy, etc. Is the imagery used in advertisements and on career websites only of young good-looking individuals? Where are the ads placed? Are they only being positioned on social media channels that appeal to Gen Y or millennials?

Conducting a quick audit of marketing collateral, verbiage and sourcing placement is a place to start however every point in the employee life cycle has areas to identify and correct through heightened awareness, training and bringing it to the attention of leadership and HR.

A second area of concern is the biases many supervisors have towards older adults, especially in the hiring process. Most, if not all, are unfounded. Fear of individuals being overqualified, more experienced than their peers (or even the supervisor themself) and ready to jump ship at the next opportunity are just not true. In a 2019 AARP research report it was found that baby boomers’ tenure at a company is almost double in length of time to that of Gen – X or Gen – Y. Baby boomers have spent most of their careers in a world where staying and moving up in an organization was the rule. Many hoped to work at one or two companies in their entire lifetime. The mindset of job hopping for the next best thing should be set aside.

Q3: Do these principles apply once employees are hired for making promotion decisions? If so, how?

A3: Organizations are often afraid that older workers are going to age out as if they have an expiration date.

Myths of older workers being analog instead of digital abound.

There are many ways to break down assumptions and biases that are no different than other DEI oriented actions. Mixing teams with members of different age demographics, reverse mentoring, and open discussions about issues that may appear to be age related (but are not) are all important steps to breaking down barriers.

When you hear in the hallway “they are stuck in their old ways” or they are afraid of change, stop and challenge this. Ignoring inappropriate comments can be taken as the comment is ok when it is not.

Q4: Is there a way to calculate data on the value and benefit (ROI) of older workers?

A4: That is a tough one to answer. I would say subjectively that there is always a value to having individuals with years of experience, institutional knowledge, and an understanding of how work practices have evolved over time. If we go back to my earlier comments around the fear of hiring an over or fully qualified individual than the value and benefit question can be answered by saying the older worker may in fact need less training or development time to ramp up in a new role and the costs associated with ramp up time may go down. This may sound counter-intuitive but in many cases an older worker hired with years already in a similar role may cost less than a younger and less experienced individual when you factor in all the non-payroll costs of doing business. The tough part to this is getting it down to a mathematical equation or metric.

Organizations can measure voluntary turnover, promotion and performance ratings stratified by age categories however these may be tainted by biases towards the ratings of older age employees. So it is challenging to produce objective data on this topic.

Q5: Who should attend your session?

A5: This session is broad in appeal to generalists, recruiters, HR Business Partners and employee relations professionals. If you are staying at the conference on Wednesday, I hope you will join me in a conversation on the last taboo in HR – Ageism and how to prevent it!

ABOUT THE SPEAKER: Mark Fogel?is a national practice leader for Clifton Larson Allen’s Talent Solutions -?HR Consulting Practice.?As a former CHRO for Leviton, Marcum, and Success Academy, Mark was the recipient of several national awards including SHRM’s Human Capital Leader of the Year in 2007 and HR Executive Magazine’s Honor Role in 2010. Mark is also an educator. Working as a Senior Adjunct Professor at Adelphi University’s Graduate School of Business. He has presented over two dozen times at SHRM national and regional conferences. Often Quoted in national media, Mark brings a refreshing point of view to every HR discussion.?His SHRM23 session is?Age is Just a Number?which will be on?Wednesday 06/14/2023?at?10:30 AM.?