SALES ENGINEERING AND THE FOUR LEVELS OF DIALOGUE

Sales Engineers act as vital bridges, connecting customers to their companies, business needs to products, and problems to solutions. They have unique abilities to combine the technical with the human. To simplify, organize and present what is complex in a simple way.

These bridges are built with every customer interaction, grounded in deep product knowledge and the tools used for demonstrations. However, the true foundation lies in conversations where genuine connections are formed. SEs have various tools to facilitate these conversations, with the most powerful being their market experience and knowledge of other customers’ cases, which makes them great storytellers. Unfortunately, many companies still focus excessively on demonstrations, investing heavily in tools and training, and often perpetuating the notion that the primary role of an SE is to present demos.

A demonstration is just one of many tools at an experienced SE’s disposal. Its true effectiveness comes when used to invite the customer into a dialogue, narrating how a product can solve their problems, and co-creating something new together. A demo will only be successful if preceded by a thorough Discovery phase, where the initial contact shapes everything that follows. A common mistake is treating Discovery as a one-sided process, sticking to a scripted list of questions to fill out a form. This approach fails to invite a true conversation or connection. A genuine conversation involves both parties being open, revealing, and learning from each other, forming a foundation for a true connection.

To explore how SEs can deepen and enhance these conversations, I will reference the four levels of conversation from Theory U, developed by Otto Scharmer at MIT.

?Level 1: Downloading

At this level, no real connection exists between the people involved. In an online presentation, for example, participants might be multitasking rather than engaging with the content. Here, people simply repeat familiar phrases, with no openness or real exchange. Such meetings do not influence the sales process; both parties are just fulfilling an obligation, following a script, and leaving the meeting unchanged, with nothing new to consider. I’ve been in many meetings like this—lifeless encounters where participants state the obvious, and the interaction could easily be replicated with any other customer or supplier. Conversations at this level serve only to confirm what people already know. To move beyond this superficial connection, an Open Mind is required, breaking out of automatic patterns and being open to truly observing and listening to the other person.

Level 2: Factual Dialogue

At this level, some connection is established, but the conversation often resembles a debate, focusing on differences—roles and associated scripts. The seller adheres to pre-defined scripts and sales tactics to persuade the customer, while the buyer follows their own playbook to maintain their position, withholding information to gain an advantage. It’s a game. Unlike the first level, there is some exchange and interaction here, but it’s driven by the roles each person plays and the scripts they follow, leaving little room for a genuinely human connection. Strictly following a demo script can serve as a form of protection, avoiding vulnerability and preventing the other party from taking advantage. Sellers who listen in this state do so not to understand but to respond with the right answer to overcome objections or push the sale. While these meetings can yield results, they often leave a lingering sense of manipulation or unease. When a sale is lost, the opposite feelings of guilt and failure may arise.

Sales methodologies are not inherently bad; they’re often the product of extensive research and learning. The problem lies in being confined to the role of a rational player who views others merely as means to achieve results—a mindset that is unsustainable in the long run. The way out is to embrace what makes us human, moving beyond rigid scripts with an Open Heart, allowing us to connect with others on a deeper level.

Level 3: Empathic Dialogue

At this stage, an emotional connection forms between the participants, transcending roles and company affiliations. Both parties are genuinely open to seeing, hearing, and understanding the other’s perspective on problems, needs, and solutions. With no barriers, defenses, or games, new perspectives emerge that integrate different viewpoints. In this stage, both sides feel heard and their needs considered in the proposed solutions. The focus shifts from the tools and scripts to listening and connecting, using these resources as instruments to make the presentation clear, organized, and impactful, always aiming to expand the connection and generate meaningful dialogue.

At this stage, a failed demonstration or technical glitch doesn’t pose much of a problem. The connection and listening are what truly matter. I’ve been in meetings where nothing worked properly, yet the customer expressed that it didn’t matter much because they felt understood, and from our conversation, they already saw the product’s potential and trusted the outcome. This emotional connection also activates our intuition. I’ve had customers tell me, “It feels like you anticipated my questions and answered them before I even asked.”

If we spent more time operating at this level, with open minds and hearts, the solutions we find would benefit not just the involved parties but the entire ecosystem. Sharing stories, showing our humanity, and having the humility to acknowledge that we may not always have the best solutions leads directly to this stage.

After establishing this empathic connection—already a significant achievement in the corporate world—it is possible to go even further. To do so, we need an Open Will, intentionally letting go of roles, expectations, and outcomes, and merging into a space where something truly new can emerge.

Level 4: Generative Dialogue

This state is rare, but I have experienced it in business meetings on a few occasions. Here, people shed their roles as sellers and buyers or representatives of their companies. When trust, safety, and connection are established, something new can emerge. In this state, participants can access inspiring insights and out-of-the-box solutions that had never been considered before. I’ve been in meetings where the customer said, “I came into this meeting intending to buy a product for one purpose, but what you’ve shown me is making me rethink my entire business. I’m seeing new possibilities in areas I hadn’t considered before.” Similarly, I’ve seen customers suggest new ways of using a solution that I hadn’t imagined, and when I shared these insights internally, even the product development team had not considered them.

Neither the customer nor I had planned to discuss these innovations or new approaches, but they were born from the connection—a fertile ground where new ideas can emerge.

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Of course, we won’t operate at the generative or even empathic level in every meeting. It’s impossible to sustain this space with so many meetings and presentations every day. But we can be more aware of these levels. We can observe which level we are operating at and better understand why, despite following the Discovery and demonstration scripts, nothing sometimes happens, and other times, as if by magic, everything falls into place.

A common exercise for those studying these levels of dialogue is to observe and note at the end of the day what percentage of your meetings were at each level. Observe if you noticed a shift to a deeper level in any meeting. If so, what changed? Was it something you said? Was it your posture? From this, you will consciously learn to guide conversations to deeper, more empathic, and generative levels.

It’s an invitation to dance. When both parties accept, something new will emerge—a connection that may not result in an immediate sale but builds a bridge that can be accessed for future opportunities that benefit both sides.

Fábio Cunha