SAKKIES, IKE ISAAC MOTSAPI (MONDLANE) POLITICAL LIFE

SAKKIES ISAAC IKE MOTSAPI (MONDLANE)

 

SOUTH AFRICAN HISTORY ANC POLITICAL SCHOOL ASSIGNMENT MODULE 2

 

INTERVIEW IKE MOTSAPI   

 

BY DAWN O’HARA 2009

 

 

The Changing History in the Life of Comrade Ike Motsapi

 

 

Interview by Dawn O’Hara

 

1. Question: What is your full name?

   Answer: Isaac Motsapi

 

1. Question: Where were you born and where?

   Answer: Paardekraal Hospital – Krugersdorp – 02May1955

 

1. Question: Who are your parents and what Community / Traditional Structures

                     YOU were born into?

   Answer: Mother – Madikarata Elizabeth Motlwatsi – Motswana Tribe

                   Father – Solomon Mondlane – came from Mozambique and settled in SA

                   Mum and Dad were not married – my father died in a car accident when I

                  was just 17 months old, therefore I do not know my father personally at

                   all – the only thing I do know is that he was a Police Sergeant at

                   Randfontein Police Station and that he was the younger brother of the

                   well known Edwardo Mandlane of the Frelimo Party in Mozambique.

                  

1. Question: Where did you grow up as a child? If this is different to where you

                         were born, explain why you moved.        

       Answer: My very early years were in the old Madubula Township in

                     Randfontein. Madubula was a mixed township consisting of Black,

                     Coloured, Chinese and a few Indian people.                                            

                     In the 1960’s under the Group Areas Act, we were moved by force and

                     resettled in Mohlakeng Township.

                     Coloureds were move to Toekomsrust Township and the

                      Indians moved to Azaadville. I can’t remember which areas the

                     Chinese moved to.

                     My mother was working and living in Johannesburg so I stayed with my

                     Grandparents, first in old Madubula Township and then in Mohlakeng

                       Township.

 

1. Question: Tell me about your schooling? Where did you attend?                          

   Answer: My schooling was mainly done in Mohlakeng Township from Grade 1 to

                   Junior Certificate level. I attended Malerato Primary School from Grade 1

                   to Grade 4. I started school at the age of 6 years. I was very close to my

                   sister who was 3 years older than me. We started school together but    

                   then the teachers kept me back a year as they said I had to be behind

                   my sister by a year as I was younger than her even though I was more

                   cleaver than her.

                   For Grade 5 I attended Mohlakeng Higher Primary and Grade 6,

                   Sedimosang Higher Primary.

                   I then went to Phahama Secondary School from Form 1 to JC (Junior

                   Certificate).

                  In those days you did two years Matric which was called 1st year Matric  

                   and 2nd year Matic. For Matric I went to Moroka High School in Thaba

                   Nchu which was in the Free State. This was a boarding school where I

                   was a boarder. At Moroka High many of the lessons were held in

                   Afrikaans. Our Principal was a Mr Oostehuizen, who was a army

                   Commander in the Free State during the time of the Apartheid Regime.

                   It was 1974 when I was in 2nd year Matric. We were being badly treated

                   at Moroka High. I got involved in Student Politics and we started to

                   mobilise other students. I was part of the team that organised a student

                   revolt because of the bad treatment from the Principal.

                   I was expelled during my 2nd year Matric at Moroka High. I went back

                   home to my Grandparents in Mohlakeng. Later in that same year of 1974

                   I registered as a private candidate to write my final exams for 2nd year

                   Matric at the Centre in Randfontein which was actually called Phahama

                   Secondary School.

                      

1. Question: Describe for me the bad treatment?

   Answer: Not allowed to go out from the school over weekends. No recreational

                   facilities. Head Master beat us badly for almost no reason at all. We      

                   were locked up at school like prisioners and Mr Oostehuizen’s general

                   racist attitude. Our Head Master was a real “Boer” to the core. He even

                   called us Kaffirs.

                   He used to threaten to bring in the army and in his words “to swallow us

                   Black students up in one day”, in other words to get rid of us, bump us

                   off. We challenged him to do that and one day he did bring the army in.

                   It was the first time I ever saw anyone in a camouflage uniform.    

                                                                                                                                                     

1. Question: How did you feel when growing up? What were your main problems

                     and what were your joys?

   Answer: There were many restrictions. We were confined to the Township where  

                   we lived. We were very naive, ignorant and shut off from what was

                   happening in other areas. We were not allowed to go to the white town

                   nearby. We were also afraid because if we were caught loitering there,      

                   we would be arrested or badly beaten.

                   My Mother only visited us once a month as she lived in Johannesburg.      

                  During her visits I would ask her may questions like “why are we not      

                   allowed to mix with white people?” She would always hush me up by    

                   saying, “keep quiet or we will be arrested”.

                  There was great inequalities, segregaton, no freedom of speech or

                   movement. No one would talk openly about the suffering, pain,

                   starvation, poverty or human indignity caused to people.

 

1. Question: Who were your favourite musicians? And sports people? And writers?

   Answer: Musicians where Spokes Mashiane. He played the penny whistle and

                   the other was Miriam Makeba. I will never forget the popline trousers

                   which had a belt at the back at that time in the 1960’s.

                   Sports people. Well I grew up with Patric “Ace” Ntsoelengoe. Ace was a

                   good friend of mine. We were in Grade 5 together and also played

                  football together for a club called Mohlakeng Home Stars. He was very

                   good at football and played for the 1st Division, but I only made the 2nd

                   Division. Ace played for Mohlakeng Home Stars before joining Kaizer

                   Chiefs. Football was the greatest and I think the only sport during the

                   1960’s to 1972 in Mohlakeng and then I left for Moroka High in the Free

                   State.

                   Writers were people like CJ Langenhoven ( and Cde Ike went on to

                   recited the whole of the famous Langenhoven poem to me off the top of      

                   his head, called “October Maand”). Langenhoven was one of the

                   reasons why I developed an interest in writing poetry which in turn

                   motivated me to move into Journalism. I actually wanted to be a Doctor .

                   but my Mother couldn’t afford to pay for my studies in medicine.

                  

 

1. Question: Who were the one or two most significant people in bringing you up?

   Answer: Granny – Annah Mokone. She taught me good family values. To respect

                  people and especially the Leaders in the community and people you look

                   up to with honour and integratory. She also taught me the Christian way

                   of life. We attended the African Methodist Episcopal Church and at the

                   age of 8 and 9 used to actually preach in the church. Granny also taught

                   me to respect other people less fortunate than yourself and she was

                   strict with grooming. You had to always be smart and clean.

                   And then there was my Mother’s Cousin – Queen, whom I stayed with

                   when I was a young adult. She had her own children but treated me

                   exactly the same as her own children. She never ever referred to me as

                   another person’s child. This was in 1970 at 259 Tshaka Street, Mohlakeng Randfontein. I stayed at my mom’s hone at 2906B mapetla extension, Soweto from late 1975 This was

                   when I joined the World Newspapers.

                 

1. Question: Tell me about your working life. Was the Newspapers your first job

                       after completing school?

     Answer: No, my first job was with the Institute for Medical Research. The person

                     I replaced was the late Aggrey Claaste. He showed me the ropes while

                     he was working his notice period at IMR. During this time we started

                     talking about writing and poetry. Aggrey told me before leaving that he

                     would call me later after he had begun his new job at World

                   Newspaper. After three months I received a call from Aggrey to say I

                   must come for a interview at World Newspaper with the late Percy

                   Qoboza. Aggrey said that I had all the talents to be a Journalist. Well I

                     was interviewed by Qoboza, accepted and resigned from the Institute                    

                     for Medical Research all in the same day.

                     I wouldn’t have stayed long at the IMR for long anyway. I was involved

                     in a incident with my Immediate Supervisor. He was a young,

                     un-educated, Boertjie who used to provoke me all the time. One day I

                     lost my temper and floored him. The Senior Supervisor, Dr Abramowitz

                   observed the incident and suspended Johan Britz. I was not comfortable

                   after that as the Apartheid Regime was at its peak and I did not know

                   how Dr Abramowitz would react in the future.

                   This was during 1975. I was earning R85.00 per month at the IMR.

                   

                   Joining the World Newspaper I was going to earn R38.00 per week, so  

                     how could I resist the move.

                     I was a Junior Reporter at the World Newspaper before the riots

                     started. During the riots I was often arrested by the Police as they

                     thought I was a student. I looked very young for my age. I covered the

                     riots for the World Newspaper. Tokyo Sexwale was the production

                     inserter then. The inserts were done manually at that time as machinery

                     was not available yet for this job. The Minister of Communications,

                     Siphiwe Nyanda was a journalist then also at the World but soon went

                     underground and then into exile.

                     I studied Journalism on a part time basis and worked to pay for my

                     fees. I attended Journalist School and qualified as well as obtained

                   many other diplomas / degrees as well. Please attach my CV at the

                     end of our interview for the future generation to see and encourage

                     them to study.

                     The World Newspaper was banned in 1977, with other Political

                     Organisations. The Apartheid Regime banned all our literature. This is

                    when Hugh Masekela produced strong political songs and the militancy

                     action began by the people, which in turn fuelled the uprising.

                     The Post Transvaal replaced the World Newspaper in 1977 and I

                     moved over to the newly created newspaper.

                   

                     Most people were being arrested now for political involvement with

                     relevance to the June 16, 1977 uprising. This is when most of the

                     political cases started.

                     My Journalism career blossomed due to my understanding and

                     knowledge of Afrikaans. Even though I was a junior reporter and the

                     only one who could speak Afrikaans at the newspaper, I was called to

                     cover the big political cases involving heavy weights in politics. I had to  

                   do the job of a senior reporter as only Afrikaans was spoken in the

                   courts.

                     For example, one or two of the cases I covered were:

                     The Bethal Case

                     The Carlton Centre Bombing Case            

                     The Delmas Treason Trial

                    We are not even scratching the surface yet.

                    

                   While working for Bona Magazine during 1982 to 1990 as a all round

                     Journalist, part of my brief was to travel to Lesotho, Botswana and

                     Swaziland for articles. At the same time I was doing underground work

                     during my travels. Gabarone is where I met up with people like Hugh

                     Masekela and Joe Phatle who was murdered by the Apartheid army.

                     Back home during the early 1980’s a lady from Dube came and  

                     delivered a message on a tissue to me. It read “come to Gabarone to          

                     share info with exiles”. I became suspicious as I knew that she knew a

                     man in who stayed in Dube who was a police informer. I thought no,

                     this must be plot to eliminate me. I did not go.

                                             

                    In 1990 I joined the Sowetan as a Reporter. William Bokala was  

                     the Assignment Editor at the Sowetan. Ben “T&T” Lekalake as

                     Receptionist. T&T went underground earlier in the 1970’s with the Mac Maharaj set up.

 

                     I also investigated and reported on a Bishop Modise in Meadowlands,

                     who was killing people, cutting their heads off and storing them in his

                     freezer. He was arrested, but when I looked again, the following day

                     he was released. I couldn’t believe it as he was definitely guilty.

                     When I saw him after being released on bail, he did not try

                     and do anything to me directly. He had a very big community attending

                     his church. What he did was to agitate them so much against me that

                     they got hold of me and took me to the church where they held me

                     hostage from 7am and beat the hell out of me non stop. They even took

                     a pipe and beat me across my kidneys. I really thought I was going to  

                     die that day. The police only arrived at 4pm that day to rescue me.  

                                                                

                     I have left so much out as your interview will be too long. We are not                      

                     Even scratching the surface yet. We could talk about so many things

                     my time serving on the Committee of 10, different roles played as a

                     journalist, formation of the student movement which replaced the SRC

                     after June 16 uprising under Colin Kotu who was later arrested and

                     sent to Robin Island.    

                    

1. Question: Who was your big influence at this time in the ANC?

     Answer: William Bokala most definitely, but then there was also Thengiwe

                    Mtintsho who I interviewed many times, but we also used to talk a lot.

                     As a CUP Reporter I was allocated a car with a driver and    

                     photographer to go out and get stories. We would go

                     out under cover using these cars, advising students what was

                     happening and what to do. We would also transport the students

                     around for meetings etc as well as to safe houses. We did this as well

                     before and after the June 16th uprising. I became a member of the ANC

                     at Broadhurst in Gabarone, Botswana. I still remember my membership

                     form had Palo Jordan’s signature of acceptance on it.                                                 

                

1. Question: Have you lived in different places in your lifetime? If yes:

         (a) which places?

         (b) what did your family do there?

         (c) why did you move each time?

         Answer: Paardekraal were I was born. Old Madubulaville during my first few

                         years until we were force removed to Mohlakeng, Randfontein. Later

                         I was at boarding school in the Free State. Mapetla to stay with                            

                         family as I was trying to look for work.

                         My Mother had then married Johannes Motsapi and they were also

                         living in Mapetla, Soweto. Naledi, Ext 2, Soweto which was my own

                         house when I got married. After divorcing my wife in 2002 I moved to

                         Liefde en Vrede where I still live to this day.      

 

1. Question: When you were much younger, what were the two most important            

                       events that happend in your life?

     Answer: I was an Investigative Journalist at the time and my story even made          

                     international news. I exposed a secret police torture camp in

                     Oberholzer near Carltonville, in the early 1990’s. It nearly cost me my

                     life. My car had stalled at work (Sowetan) and a colleague, Sy

                     Makaringe who was the Night Editor at the time offered to take me

                     home. When we arrived at my house there was an unmarked blue golf

                     parked next to my driveway gate. We could see that there were

                     policemen in the blue golf. We became suspicious and wondered what

                     this car was doing parked next to my driveway gate, so we stopped by

                     my pathway gate and decided to get out of Sy’s car together and walk

                   over to the golf to find out what they were doing. As we approached the

                   golf the car sped away. The policemen must have thought we had guns.

                   I knew a Johan Coetzee who was in the Communications Unit at SAP

                   Pretoria. I had met him previously on another case I was on

                   Investigating gun smuggling between Swaziland and Johannesburg and

                   still had his phone number. I called him the next day and asked what

                   were the policemen doing in the blue golf in my area. He said the police

                   were on a mission looking for a suspect and could not give me any more

                   detail. Well all I can think of is that they were after me and if I had come

                   home alone that evening, they would have killed me as I stopped and  

                   got out of my car to open the driveway gates. They did have long rifles

                   with them which I saw through the car window.

                     The gun smuggling case I was telling you about was happening  

                     from Swaziland via Dundee and other places to Johannesburg.

                     The arms were been smuggled in by the police to arm Inkhata and

                     assist them for the violence they were carrying out in the early 1990’s.      

                     violence    

                   

        

                      

 

 

 

 

1. Question: Why were they important for you?

     Answer: Most people who were arrested and sent to Oberholzer never came

                     back alive or even at all. They just went missing.

                     I felt that I needed to investigate and expose whatever was

                     going on there for our people. With the help of a Legal NGO who were

                     giving support to families of the missing victims I did my investigation

                     and was able to expose the Oberholzer torture camp run by the police.

                     I was happy to expose the Apartheid Regime in formatting and

                     destabilising Liberation Organisations in the SA.

 

                     I have so many more stories to tell but unfortunately we don’t have the

                     time. I would keep you here for a few days with my stories.

 

1. Question: Did you have paid work outside the home when you were at school

                       and then when you became a adult?                  

     (a) what work did you do?

     (b) what were your conditions of work like, could you describe them?

     (c) were you involved in any worker organisations? If yes, around which years

           and which organisations?

     (d) what were their major campaigns?

     (e) could you describe an average day from when you woke up to get ready for            

           work to when you came home during those times.

       Answer: a) I sold newspapers at Roodepoort Station after school from Monday

                         to Friday.

                         On Saturday and Sunday I sold ice-creams.

1. b) Well I had to work very hard as I was employed on a commission

                           base only. This meant that I only received a payment for every item

                           that I sold. I needed the money as we were very poor at home and  

                           stuggled to survive.                            

1. c) I was involved in many student organisations. From 1976 I was a

                           member of the Union of Black Journalists until it was banned in

1. In late 1977 WASA (Workers Association of SA) was formed

                           just after Steve Biko died. I was a shop steward in WASA which

                           was formed for professional writers. People complained the this

                           organisation was only for professional writers, so then MWASA was

                           formed (Media Workers Association of SA). I was elected the

                           Chairman of the Chapple in 1994, 1995 and 1996.

1. d) Workers Rights and Political Awareness. Most of the members

                           were from the PAC, but the ANC members always triumphed and

                           took leadership.

1. e) I would get up at 2am and work in the family garden. At 5am leave

                           for school as we had to walk. After school catch the train from

                           Randfontein to Roodepoort Station. Sell newspapers till 7pm. Go

                          back home either by train or sometime was lucky enough to get a

                           lift by car. At home do homework and study. 10pm go to sleep.

                           Selling ice-creams I would go out at 7am. You know the saying “the

                           early bird catches the worm”. I got to know where the crowds would

                           be and at what time of the day. So I targeted my customers as ice-

                           creams were very popular in those days. I rode one of these three

                           wheeler bicycles with the ice-cream box attached. I moved from

                           area to area and tried to sell as quickly as possible so I could race  

                          back and sell another load to earn more commission.

                       As an adult I would wake up at 4am. Exercise and train in the gym

                       and go to work at 6am which I still do to this day. Work would start at

                      7:30am but especially during the riots I would be on call 24 hours, 7

                       days a week to cover the days events.

                                         

 

1. Question: Were you involved in any struggle organisations? If yes, which ones  

                         and what issues were they taking up?

     Answer: Talking about the political struggle will in itself constitute writing a book. I was all along working for the ANC after being introduced by Willie Bokala, initially, then Comrades Vusi “Jobe” Sithole and Steward Ngwenya. The advent of political intolerance reaching a boiling point in Soweto saw the Inkatha Freedom Party, known then as Inkatha, supported by the boers, attacked residents in the township.

 

I was staying at my home in Mapetla facing the notorious Merafe Hostel. We had heavy battles fighting the Inkatha Zulu warrior from the hostel. It was then that Vusi Jobe Sithole and Stewart Ngweyana encouraged some of us to join the self defence unbits (SDU). We were all about to flee the country as we thought that we were going to be arrested or killed. Particularly myself, I was on the hit-list of Inkthatha because of my writings, as a journalist, as I portrayed them in my newspaper articles in Sowetan. I was wanted, dead or alive, but comrades like Councillor Dan Padi, Themba Khumalo and many others, who were involved in the struggle, encouraged us to stay on and fight for the struggle to liberate the country.

We did just that and finally we won including attaining democracy.

 

In 1976 I was working full time with my friend William Bokala. He introduced me to the ANC during the time of the riots. We mobilized

                     people and made them aware of the ANC and what they were doing.

                     We were also recruiting people big time. We were working under bad

                     circumstances but every minute after our daily work we were working

                     for the ANC and attending underground meetings. When the Soweto Students Representative Council (SSRC) was banned, I, while Willie Bokala was in detention, help form the Soweto Students League (SSL) under the leadership of Comrade Collin Kotu. The students struggle continued until the entire SSL office bearers were detained. How I escaped detention was a mystery but I must thank friends and relatives for allowing me to sleep at their various homes every night when I moved from one place to another.

The Political Struggle was also carried out by professional writers through their stories and poems.

But the poverty in which most African families lived had far-reaching implications for

many children. As a result, the boundaries were not always clear between childhood, adolescence and adulthood. The youth of ‘school-going age’ spent their days on the streets doing odd jobs and playing, but mostly taking responsibility for their siblings and homes while their parents were at work from early morning until late at night. Many had to raise cash for their families as hawkers (selling fruit, peanuts and other goods on trains and at various railway stations) and others worked full time as providers. Child labourers included ‘spanner boys’, who helped fix cars and those who sold coal and firewood, as Soweto had no electricity. Some of Soweto’s youth belonged to various sports clubs including youth recreation clubs made up of arts, drama, dance groups and choristers.

 

 

 

1. Question: What were the greatest problems facing girls and women when you

                       were young?

     Answer: Women and girls were treated as sexual tools. They received no

                     support from men. The majority of them were not educated. They were

                     regarded as people who could not do what the men were doing.

                     Steve Biko once said “Black men be on your own – respect your

                     Identity and fellow women comrades”. Cde Biko said this at a time

                     when men were very disrespectful to women and girls.

 

 

        

 

 

                                                                                                                                                          

                                                                                                                                                           

 

Conclusion

 

 

Cde Ike Motsapi has written a poem called “The Hospital” which was used by the Dept of Education for Matrics in the 1980’s. The poem was published by Mothobi Mutloatsi Publishers and also appeared in a magazine called the Staff Rider for Education and Training under Protest Poetry.

 

I interviewed Cde Ike Motsapi because besides being a good friend, I also look to him as a Brother and Family. He is someone I look up to and admire for all the things he has done in his life, his courage, thought and what he stands for. Always fighting for his rights. He is a go getter and achiever, never allowing anything to stand in his way. Cde Ike does not just accept what people tell him, but will check and analyse for himself what the truth is.

He is honest, disciplined and is always wanting to learn more. Most of all he is very humble in spite of all his achievements and respects others.                                                                                    Cde Ike is also someone I go to for advice and direction in my daily life. He teaches me so much about the ANC, past and present including our politics and the understanding of it. I can sit for hours listening to him. He is a very special Comrade and a walking history book.

 

In conclusion, I would like to share a very interesting and amusing story with you, told to me by Cde Ike Motsapi.

 

Khumalo Street in Tokoza was a no go street during this time. A Bishop lived there who was a staunch Inkhata supporter. At the newspaper we were receiving reports that this Bishop was killing non-supporters of Inkhata. None of the Reporters wanted to go and interview this Bishop as they were all too afraid of him. I was then a junior on the job so I was given an instruction that I had to go and interview this Bishop. I was as frightened as I had been writing stories in the newspapers about this Bishop and that he was killing people. On the day I was to go to his home I drank a whole half jack of vodka as I was so scared and couldn’t stop shaking. I was still soba after downing the half jack and still shaking. I also changed my name for the interview to Len Maseko who was actually one of my colleagues. I knocked on the door to only be told that the Bishop was not in and I must come back in an hour. Well in that hour I downed more vodka to calm the nerves, but still remained soba due to being so afraid. I went back to the Bishop’s house after an hour and was granted an interview by him. During the interview he even brought out the big gun he had been using and a whole load of bullets. The Bishop stated sometimes a man of the cloth has to put aside his bible and use a gun. After the interview the Bishop said he was trying to find the reporter call Ike Motsapi who was writing bad stories about him in the newspapers stating that he was killing ANC people. Tell Ike that when I see him I am going to kill him. On the front page of the Sowetan the next day, the header read “Bishop Tells How He Kills” and a big picture of the Bishop with his big gun and ammunition. He didn’t even realise that he was speaking to Ike Motsapi.    

 

(This interview took four hours to complete and nine hours to compile)