Russia’s eavesdropping on secret Taurus discussion

The Russian wiretapping

Last Friday Margarita Simonyan, editor at the Russian TV-Network RT, revealed the Russian wiretapping of four German Luftwaffe officers during a secret meeting on February 19. At the meeting it was discussed how the German Taurus missile might be used by Ukraine, and how direct assistance by specialists from the Luftwaffe might be concealed.

To understand the importance of the Russian intercept of the discussion that took place on WebEx, it is relevant to know more about the Taurus missile, why Ukraine has been clamouring for Taurus missiles, and reactions to the leak. Before taking a look at excerpts from the wiretapping.

Taurus capabilities

The Taurus KEPD 350 air to ground missile is made by Taurus Systems, a joint venture between Saab and MBDA Deutschland. It is “designed to penetrate thick, hardened air defences via a very low-level terrain following flight. Day or night and in any weather, it neutralises its targets through its highly effective 481 kg dual-stage warhead system, MEPHISTO.

TAURUS KEPD 350 combines outstanding penetration of hard and deeply buried targets, and blast and fragmentation of high-value point and area targets with exceptional bridge-and-runway-target kill capacity.

The system remains the only stand-off missile programmable for effect at a specific pre-selected floor. This extraordinary feature is achieved by applying layer counting and void sensing technology. (Saab. Com Prospect).

MBDA describes the missile as having a range in excess of 500km, unmatched penetration capabilities, precise and jamming resistant navigation, including terrain-following capability below 50 meters, GPS independence, with 4 separate guiding systems, and a layer counting fuse. The last characteristic means that the missile after diving vertical in the last phase, will be able penetrate layers of hardened bunkers, counting the number of layers and voids penetrated. See illustration of the concept at https://taurus-systems.de/#penetration

The missile's physical specs: Length 5m, width about 1m, weight 1400kg, with a warhead weighing 481 kg.

Ukraine’s clamouring for Taurus

Ukraine has long demanded deliveries of long-range air launched precision missiles from the West. Until now they have got Storm Shadow missiles from the UK and SCALP missiles from France, in essence the same missile with a range of around 250 Kms. They have been used for some time to strike high values targets in Crimea, including bridges.

For almost a year Ukraine had also been clamouring for deliveries of the longer ranging and more advanced Taurus missile. Presumably with the intention to use such missiles in their attempt to destroy the Kerch Bridge connecting the Taman Peninsula of Krasnodar Krai in Russia and the Crimean Kerch Peninsula.

Germany’s rejection of Taurus deliveries

Until now the German government under Chancellor Scholz has declined to send Taurus missiles to Ukraine. On February 22, the opposition consisting of the Christian Democratic Union/Christian Social Union (CDU/CSU) bloc brought forward a motion in the Bundestag calling on the Bundesregierung to provide Ukraine with Taurus missiles. “Die Ukraine durch unverzügliche Lieferung von erbetenen und in Deutschland verfügbaren Waffensystemen (u.a. TAURUS) sowie Munitionssorten im Kampf gegen Russland zu unterstützen und dabei europ?ische Führung und Koordinierung zu übernehmen” (Bundestag). The motion was defeated in the German Bundestag with 182 voting in favour, 480 against and 5 abstaining.

Instead, the Bundesregierung brought a motion calling for providing Ukraine with additional, necessary long-range weapons systems and ammunition. In German: " erforderliche weitreichende Waffensysteme." What long-range weapon systems were not specified, but Taurus missiles were certainly not meant, instead it might mean further deliveries of the MARS II systems. 382 voted in favour of the government motion, 284 against and 2 abstained.

Reactions to the wiretapping revelations

German Defence minister Pistorius: “"The incident is much more than just the interception and publication of a conversation ... It is part of an information war that Putin is waging," (DW). ?During visit to the Vatican Scholz told reporters the security breach would be “investigated very meticulously, very intensively and very quickly” Others are demanding a thorough investigation and possible consequences. There is fear that Russia might have much more wiretapping material, to be released when it might have a negative effect on the West’s unity in their support for Ukraine.

At a recent visit to Prague President Macron indirectly chastised the Germans, saying "Europe clearly faces a moment when it will be necessary not to be cowards." He later added that it was necessary to shake up France’s allies. Sometimes Macron is taking very loud but providing Ukraine a very small stick. Germany is in fact the second largest contributor to Ukraine after the US. While France apparently contributes less than Finland, according the support tracker at Kiel Institute for World Economy.

It is also speculated why the Russia has revealed the wiretapping now, as it will presumably result in Germany taken more stringent measures to guard against wiretapping. Perhaps the Russian rationale is somewhat like this. If we release the conversation of this meeting it might have these important consequences.

First it might convince Bundeskanzler Scholz that he must to stick to his “njet” to Taurus deliveries, as it seems to be difficult to avoid direct German or perhaps British participation in Taurus mission planning, if one? wants to make sure of hits on the Kerch Bridge. It must be remembered that Scholz is afraid that Ukraine could attack goals inside Russia, which might be a red line for Russia, with the risk of war with Germany and NATO. ?Perhaps to reinforce this impression Russian officials attacked Germany for discussing detailed attacks on Russian targets and threatened with retaliation should Germany become part of the war effort” (WSJ March 4. 2024).

Secondly, the revelation that British and U.S. specialists are directly involved in helping Ukraine to use the sophisticated western weapons is sure to annoy German allies.

About the wiretapped meeting

?A transcript of the conversation between high-ranking Bundeswehr officers dated 02/19/2024 was published by Margarita Simonyan, editor at The Russian TV-Network RT, on vk.com.(https://vk-com.translate.goog/@m_s_simonyan-rasshifrovka-razgovora-vysokopostavlennyh-oficerov-bundesver?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp).

The transcript used here is from a Substack article at https://karlof1.substack.com/p/german-military-going-against-its

The date

The meeting of the German Luftwaffe officers is said to have taken place on February 19, which means that practicalities in relation to a possible delivery of Taurus Missiles to Ukraine toke place a few days before the discussion and the votes in the Bundestag.

The use of Webex

Normally one would not expect Russia to be able eavesdrop on a meeting of high-ranking German officers. Perhaps the wiretapping was made possible because they were using Webex “a multi-functional desktop Video/Audio Conference call application,” with one of the participants staying at the Marina Bay Sands in Singapore. With one of the others impressed and asking “the one with three towers and swimming pool at the top.” The officer might have been in Singapore for the Airshow.

The participants

Generalleutnant Ingo Gerhartz - Inspekteur der Luftwaffe

General Frank Gr?fe - Brigadegeneral der Luftwaffe der Bundeswehr, Abteilungsleiter für Eins?tze und übungen im Kommando Luftwaffe in Berlin. (General Gr?fe apparently participating from Singapore).

Oberstleutnant Florstedt

Oberstleutnant Udo Fenske

Excerpts from the wiretapped meeting

Purpose of the meeting

Listening to General Gerhartz is becomes clear that the officers are meeting to prepare a presentation for defence minister Pistorius, looking at problems and possibilities in relation to a possible delivery of Taurus missiles to Ukraine.

Gerhartz: “Okay. We need to verify the information. As you have already heard, Defense Minister Pistorius intends to carefully consider the issue of supplying Taurus missiles to Ukraine. We have a meeting planned with him. Everything needs to be discussed so that we can start working on this issue. So far I do not see that the start date of these deliveries has been indicated. It was not like the chancellor told him: “I want to get information now, and tomorrow morning we will make a decision.” I haven't heard anything like this. On the contrary, Pistorius evaluates this entire ongoing discussion. Nobody knows why the Chancellor is blocking these supplies.”…

”It is necessary to show what the missile can do, how it can be used. It is necessary to take into account, if we make a political decision on the transfer of missiles as assistance to Ukraine, what consequences this may lead to. I would be grateful if you could tell me not only what problems we have, but how we can solve them. For example, when it comes to delivery methods.”

Revealing that allied partners have people on the ground in Ukraine

?Gerhartz: “I know what the English do, they make in reach-back. They have a few people on the ground. The French don't do that. He later also mentioned that “it is known that there are many people in civilian clothes who speak with an American accent. ”Thus, he confirmed what many had already expected, that Ukrainian forces get assistance on the ground in order to use the sophisticated weapons they have got from the West.

Delivery times and delivery systems to be used

Gr?fe: “If the Chancellor now decides that we should supply missiles, they will be transferred from the Bundeswehr. Good, but they won't be ready for use until eight months later. Secondly, we cannot shorten the time. Because if we do that, there could be a misuse, a missile could fall on a kindergarten, there would be civilian casualties again. These aspects must be taken into account. It should be noted during the negotiations that we will not be able to do anything without the manufacturer. They can equip, re-equip and deliver the first missiles. We can catch up a little bit, but we shouldn't wait until we have 20 pieces, we can transfer five at a time”

Gr?fe then touched upon the question delivery system: “What weapons systems will these missiles be attached to?”

Gerhartz thought this was a problem that could be solved by the Taurus manufacturer: “TSG [Taurus Systems Gmbh] has said that they can solve this problem within six months, it doesn't matter if it's a Sukhoi or an F-16.”

Questions related to training

With the British already in Ukraine they might also be able to help Ukraine to use Taurus missiles. Thus, avoiding having their own German specialists on the ground in Ukraine.

Gr?fe: “I have already said that we are cooperating with a missile manufacturer. They teach the maintenance of these systems, and we teach the tactical application. It takes three to four months. This part of the training can take place in Germany. When the first missiles arrive, we need to make a quick decision on mounts and training. Perhaps we will have to turn to the British on these issues and take advantage of their know-how. We can provide them with databases, satellite images, and planning stations.” (Emphasis added).

?Gerhartz: “We need to imagine that they can use aircraft with mounts for Taurus missiles and for Storm Shadow. The British were there and equipped the planes. The systems are not so different, they can be used for the Taurus as well.”

How to conceal technical and mission planning support?

Fenske: “If we are talking about combat use, then in this case, de facto, we will be advised to support at least the first group. It's difficult to plan, it took about a year to train our staff and we are now trying to reduce that time to ten weeks and hope that they will be able to race off-road in a car designed for Formula 1. A possible option is to provide scheduled technical support, theoretically this can be done from Büchel [German airbase in Rheinland-Pfalz, where the US has placed nuclear weapons], provided that a secure connection with Ukraine is created.”

Gerhartz interrupted: “Wait a minute. I know what you're saying. Politicians may be concerned about the direct closed connection between Büchel and Ukraine, which could become a direct involvement in the Ukrainian conflict.”

This led to a discussion of how assistance for mission planning might be concealed.

Fenske: “The question will arise as to where the information is coming from. If we are talking about information about targets, which ideally includes satellite images that provide a maximum accuracy of three meters, then we must first process them in Büchel. I think that, regardless of this, it is possible to somehow organize the exchange of information between Büchel and Schrobenhausen [Where TSG is located], or it is possible to work out the possibility of transferring information to Poland, to do it where it is possible to reach by car.”?

How many Taurus could be delivered?

?Fenske: “If you give 50 pieces, they will be used up very quickly”

?Gerhartz: “Exactly, it won't change the course of the war. So we don't want to hand them all over. And not all at the same time. Maybe 50 in the first tranche, then maybe there will be another tranche of 50 missiles. This is perfectly understandable, but all this is big politics. I guess what's really behind it.” (Emphasis added).

What goals to hit with Taurus?

Frostedte: “I came to the conclusion that there are two interesting targets - the bridge to the east [The Kerch Bridge] and the ammunition depots, which are located above. The bridge in the east is hard to reach, it's a fairly small target, but the Taurus can do it, ammunition depots can also hit. If you take all of this into account and compare it to how many Storm Shadows and HIMARS were used, then I had a question: "Is our goal a bridge or military depots?"

Fenske: “I would like to say one more thing about the destruction of the bridge. We have been working intensively on this issue and, unfortunately, have come to the conclusion that the bridge is similar to a runway due to its size. Therefore, it may not require 10 or even 20 missiles.” … “All they can do is make a hole and damage the bridge.”

?Gerhartz: “We all know that they want to destroy the bridge, that it ultimately means how it is guarded, not only because it has an important military-strategic significance, but also because it has a political significance. Although they now have a land corridor as well. There are certain concerns if we have a direct connection with the Ukrainian armed forces. Therefore, the question will arise - is it possible to use such a trick and send our people to the MBDA? Thus, there will be a direct connection with Ukraine only through the MBDA, which is much better than if such a connection exists with our Air Force.”

Gr?fe: “Gerhartz, it doesn't matter. We need to make sure that there are no formulations from the very beginning that make us a party to the conflict.” …” At the very beginning, we identified this as the main element of the "red line", so we will participate in the training. Let's say that we will prepare a "road map". It is necessary to divide the learning process into parts. The long track will be designed for four months, we will train them thoroughly, including working out the option with a bridge. The short one will be designed for two weeks so that they can use the missiles as soon as possible. If they are already trained, we will ask if the British are ready to take them up at this stage. I believe that such an action would be correct.”… “And if, at the first stage, the task is to hit ammunition depots, and not such complex objects as bridges, then in this case you can proceed to an abbreviated program and get a quick result.”

?Waiting for a decision (quoted from the VK transcript)

Gr?fe: “I want to say, the longer they take to make a decision, the longer it will take us to implement all this. We need to divide everything into stages. First, start with the simple ones, and then move on to the complex ones. Or can we turn to the British, can they provide us with support at the initial stage and take on planning issues? We can force what lies within our area of responsibility. The development of mounts for missiles is not one of our tasks; Ukraine must resolve this issue independently with manufacturers.”

Gerhartz: “We wouldn't want to get into trouble right now because of the budget commission. This may make it impossible to start construction work at the Büchel airbase in 2024. Every day now counts in the program.”

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