RUN (or, On Interpreting Cultural Clues in Job Interviews)
RUN
I stared at the Post-It, unfolded in my hand.
RUN
I looked across the conference room table, at the woman gathering her papers and stuffing them into her portfolio - the woman who slid me the note not thirty seconds before.
RUN
I looked back at the note, then back at her.
"Well, Mark, thanks for your time!" she said, cheerfully. Looking at the clock, she added, "Your next interviewer will be in in about five minutes."
I looked at her, bewildered and becoming more than a little panicked. Perhaps I had misread the note, perhaps....
RUN
Nope. It says, "RUN," clear as day. I looked back at her. She smiled again, nodding at the clock.
"As I said, the next interviewer will be here in five minutes," she repeated. Then her smile dropped, fell so fast it was jarring, so fast it was, frankly, scary. Nodding back at the clock she said, her tone now one of somber warning, "You have five minutes."
As the door swung closed behind her, I stared at the note, at the clock, at the door, my mind and heart racing. What do I do here? Do I follow the note's advice? I have two more interviewers coming in to talk to me today. Do I leave right now? Do I...RUN? I looked around. Note. Clock. Door. How many minutes are left? Note. Clock. Door. I'm being ridiculous! But then....the note. Note. Clock. Door. I make a decision. I'm leaving. I stuff my resumes back into my portfolio, grab my jacket from the back of the chair, and make a beeline for the door. I don't know what's going on here, but I'm not waiting around to find out! I reach for the handle.
"Mark! Thanks for coming in!" The door flies open. The CEO, my next interviewer, walks into the room. It's too late.
* * * *
Well....clearly, none of that craziness happened. But something similar, if far less paperback-thrilleresque, did happen to me recently. And while not nearly as terrifying as the above scenario, the end result was pretty much the same - and it taught me a LOT about how to figure-out a company's culture from clues given in a job interview.
Let me tell you a story. And this one - this one is TRUE.
When I was looking to make a change a while back, I found myself interviewing with ACME Coding Corporation. Now, of COURSE that's not their real name (though anyone looking for a company name that's kind of cool and meta - you can have that one for free!) - I will never name an actual company here because first off, it's not the right thing to do, and second off, my experience may have been a one-off, not representative of how things truly are.
Several rounds of phone interviews had landed me at ACME's corporate headquarters, in a large conference room with comfortable chairs on a high floor. I had been scheduled for a full day of interviews, so I had my portfolio stuffed with copies of my resume on nice, thick paper. I was very interested in the company, so I looked forward to learning more about them, their vision, their processes, etc. I was really excited to see where this process took me!
Until about three minutes into the first interview.
I guess at this point I should note that I was interviewing with two different "types" of team members - individual contributors / managers close to the day-to-day, and C-level executives. I say this because my experience was vastly different between these two types. The C-levels were enthusiastic, driven, cheerful, and had nothing but great things to say.
Those closer to the day-to-day....were not and did not.
I won't narrate everything that was said, but I'll give you a quick synopsis:
- My first interviewer came shuffling into the room, looking down at his phone and mumbling about something or another. He sat down, finished what he was doing on his device, ran his hands through his hair, sighed, and said something like, "It's been a rough day." I should note: It was 9am on a Monday.
- All - and I mean every last one - of the "close-to-the-work" interviewers told me they didn't think I'd be happy in the job, and asked - some multiple times - why in the world I even wanted it in the first place.
- One interviewer told me she didn't understand why anyone would want to work in ACME's industry.
- One interviewer regaled me with the story of how he had to spend almost his entire Christmas holiday working, and how he didn't get to spend much time with his family.
- One interviewer said, "ACME....expects a lot from us," practically sighing and shaking her head and she did.
- One interviewer asked if I liked to work remotely. When I told him that I wasn't looking for a full-time remote role, but would like the flexibility to do so from time-to-time if one of my kids was sick or whatever, he replied, "Well, you can't do that here, so just know that."
- One interviewer told me that there was a "bit of toxicity" in some of the relationships in the office, and let me know that I'd have to work around that in my role.
A little bit into this mess I realized this wasn't going to be the opportunity for me. Honestly I felt like following the fictional advice of my fictional character in the fictional scenario at the top of this article - I felt like I should RUN. If not literally, then at least figuratively; that I should get the heck out of there; that I should cut the interview short. I didn't - but the interviews didn't get better as the day wore on.
I remember sitting in my car after the interview, calling my wife, and saying, "I'm so glad I never have to go into that building again!"
I think the takeaways from this interview process are pretty clear, but just in case, here are my conclusions based on what I experienced:
- The C-levels think their organization is terrific!
- The folks a bit closer to the work are overworked, don't like their jobs, and don't particularly like the industry they're in.
Believe it or not, I'm actually grateful for this experience! I'd much prefer to know NOW that things are bad, rather than the day I sit down at my desk.
And yes, I know that sometimes interviewers have bad days - heck, I've been that guy! - but for every single Non-C to repeat some version of the same theme? Well that - that's gotta mean something!
So, to me, there's a larger takeaway for organizations in general here: Treat your people well. Make them love - or heck, at least LIKE - their work. If your people are having to miss Christmas with their family, that's something you need to figure out!
Because if your interviewers act like this, you might as well have them sliding ominous Post-Its across the conference room table.
And if you send your interviewers into an interview looking and acting like they want to cry, pass out, or some weird combination of the two, don't be shocked when you don't land the candidate. When they....
Well, you know!