Rob Moore's Q&A at Canary Wharf PPN

Thanks very much Ozan and Oktay Redjip for an entertaining, inspiring and educational Q&A with the inimitable Rob Moore at this month’s Canary Wharf PPN!

This was a brilliant evening and I enjoyed having many conversations with lots of great and inspiring people!

Rob has a great sense of humour, which I fear I haven’t captured here - the idea of this post is to share the comprehensive and extensive replies Rob gave in answer to random questions for all of you who missed it - However, for his entertainment value and contagious enthusiasm, well, you just had to be there!! 

The awesome venue, Floor 39, One Canada Square was buzzing with anticipation as Steve Day started the evening presenting an overview of the benefits of outsourcing & systemising your business and how the Wealth Dynamics tools enabled him to see clearly what he is good at (and to outsource the rest!) 

Steve quit everything and said no to everything, then went to live in Stockholm with his wife and family.

He spent 6 months working out how to run his business & property portfolio effectively. As a result he came up with his Systems and Outsourcing 6 Step process, which has helped many people already and means that he can live in Stockholm and run his property portfolio and business in the UK completely remotely. 

This is brilliant and something we all will benefit from doing so that we work on our business, not in it! Thank you for that Steve!! 

And the moment we were all waiting for…

Rob Moore’s Q&A:

Rob began by describing how he got into property and st first felt out of his depth, before he met Mark Homer at the bar when he attended his first property event.

Once they started out together he learned so much and overall things went well, with all the usual setbacks: they bought properties, turned them into HMOs near the hospital, then the hospital was knocked down, so they got new HMOs near the new hospital, and so it went on. They acquired more property up to the present day with their current development on the M&S site in Peterborough. Property is life changing, Rob is grateful to property for all that it’s given him. 

Question 1: What does Rob think of the Governor of BoE saying that with no Brexit deal, property prices could drop by 35%? 

Rob replied asking what does the Governor of BoE know about property? Focus on your yields in your particular area. London has been softening and prices falling for the last two years.

In last recession prices went from ￡120k to ￡75k in Peterborough and so it was a great time to buy. For every negative, there is a positive - usually when prices go down, rents go up. People wait instead of buying, and as rents go up so the yields go up.

Mark is the one in their partnership who is into reading the FT and loves keeping up to date with all the economic news, and he is Rob’s source of this type of information.  

Rob wondered if there was an ulterior motive in the statement.

Rob also commented that he likes to buy cars, art, and watches, but prices are strong on these, so a correction hasn't started on these types of investments yet.

If a crash is coming, lending isn't at 100% like it was at the last recession. 

He is more interested in whether he knows good planning consultants, and all the key people to run his property business, including noise consultants (with regard to the noise objection from the night club saying there could be sound leakage from their M&S site apartment sash windows – irony of a night club owner complaining about possible noise!!) 

He's focusing on what he can control in his business, as opposed to worrying about external factors that he cannot control.

He said it’s more beneficial to prepare for the next recession/crash, e.g. have 2-3 yrs of your current operating expenses available.

Have funds in place to make the most of the opportunities in the next crash, plan and create assets for your legacy, your family.

Rob asked, “Are we in or out? Still in. And what's happened with Brexit – sweet FA!

He says, “If prices drop, thanks Brexit, I can buy properties, if prices rise, thanks Brexit my property values have gone up!”

 Liquidity will be key if/when there is a crash, so with the buying opportunities is not just what you've got saved up, it's what you have access to. Think about who you can JV with too. Question 2. John asked: What are Rob’s sources of information? 

Rob gets his economic information from Mark, as mentioned. Rob listens to podcasts and audio books a lot. He’s interested in being a better entrepreneur and tends to think about where is he having problems in his life and finds sources to help him solve these, suggesting Jordan Peterson’s “12 Rules for Life“ for a start: https://jordanbpeterson.com/12-rules-for-life/

Rob is keen to learn more about quantum theory, as he thinks the next big thing is the quantum movement. Dr. John Demartini is at the forefront of this. 

Rob’s current Audible list:

The subtle art of not giving a f*k, by Mark Manson

Love Yourself Like Your Life Depends On It by Kamal Ravikant

Worthy - Boost Your Self-Worth to Grow Your Net Worth by Nancy Levin

The Art of Happiness - A Handbook for Living, by The Dalai Lama

Bigger Leaner Stronger by Michael Matthews

How the Mind Works by Steven Pinker

How Not to F*ck Up Your Kids Too Bad by Stephen Marche

Everybody Lies by Seth Stephens-Davidowitz

Reflections on the Artist's Way by Julia Cameron

The Ten Types of Human - by Dexter Dias

The 15 Invaluable Laws of Growth -Live Them and Reach Your Potential by John C. Maxwell 

Rob says that podcasts are huge and Patreon can be used to help people get started with podcasts. Patreon is a membership platform that provides business tools for creators to run a subscription content service so it’s becoming a way for artists to earn as they develop their work. Rob has set up his own Patreon account. 

Rob tests himself to learn from everyone especially people he doesn't necessarily agree with or really like what they are saying. He didn’t used to like the way Grant Cardone was all about ‘hustle, grind’, he thought it was excessive at first but got to know more about Grant when he met and interviewed him. 

Also, Rob thinks these are good sources:

London Real

Finding mastery

Trailblazers

 Question 3. Diksesh – Who will win the Premier league?

He is a Liverpool fan…and the real question was: 

What are you currently investing in and why?

Rob replied: commercial conversions that need planning in Peterborough.

The current project with the M&S building, and a site where Poundland previously operated.

Rob and Mark are also developing clusters of 8 flats, for example.

They don't want to go too big, M&S caused sleepless nights, but it’s working out well and they’ve decided to hold the property, which will work really well in the current climate. 

Rob loves to buy appreciating watches e.g. Patek Philippe, and he invests approx ￡100k in the stock market. Rob has a Ferrari Testa Rosa - a boyhood dream car, but it is an investment too.

Likes his hi-fi - buys second-hand equipment and sells on for a profit after he’s enjoyed using it for a while, so this works out at no cost e.g. speakers bought for ￡8k and sold later for the same price.

Rob buys assets at the bottom of depreciation curve. 

Property - if you don't really love it then it will be hard. He loves the things he invests in, which means it’s not like work.

To relax he will learn about these things, spending time researching them. 

He has taught himself to keep the addiction of buying things restricted to those that either go up in value or retain their value - Hermes handbags go up in value (but don’t tell his wife!!) 

You can find all sorts of things that command high prices, e.g. on eBay you can buy Nike trainers for ￡9k - these are collector’s items!! 

Question 4. Antonio asked:

What is the best thing to do if just starting out in property? 

Rob replied (commenting that we all know that he runs many property courses!!)

-Deal packaging

-Rent to rent

-Some kind of e—commerce business:

Kajabi web page - selling info online, selling products online Shopify

Patreon - donations for your creations.

Rob created the 70-20-10 model to make sure the main strategy you’re working on has enough focus till it’s up and working (70%), but 20% of your time is also spent on the next strategy that you’ll focus on once the first is successful. The beginnings of a third strategy can be explored 10% of the time. 

This means that it’s possible to really get going with one strategy, without the shiny penny distraction of trying to do too many things all at once, which is not likely to work as there will be a lack of focus.

Rob suggested: 

70 - rent to rent, lower entry cost than purchase, leverage properties you don’t own for cash flow. The deals you can't do yourself, you can sell as deals

20 - deal packaging

10 - e-commerce

Rob wants to bring virtual reality into training - e.g. viewings can be done in VR.

If you're a deal packager you can then view remotely he said, instead of visiting people in their homes. 

Rob said you can do Fb lives and podcasts about what you’re doing, being visible and giving value back. 

Talking about VR & technology, Rob thinks that Tony Robbins and Gary V have been hologrammed in at an event, continuing: 

“Entrepreneurs that create meaningful products to solve problems will always do well. 

Information is so valuable these days. We either deliver info or consume it.

Kylie Jenner made ￡900 million on her Instagram account, and whatever your view if her that’s a lot of money!”

Rob has built his followers by constantly putting out content. He also commented that our problems are first world problems - if you catch yourself complaining that things are hard, they can be but we can all afford to eat, and we have internet. Overwhelm is an issue for lots of people, but it’s a first world problem! 

Question 5. Brand development - what are you thoughts on developing a personal brand or business brand? (sorry not sure who asked this, please tag yourself in!) 

Rob said: “There are 3 types of brand - personal, business, product. 

In the newer age of social media people relate to you rather than corporates. 

John Caldwell is a billionaire, but he has a third of the following that Rob has. 

Joe Rogan possibly makes $20 million per year with his podcast. 

Rob now gets paid for ranting!! (On his podcast!)

Personal brands, being more personal, create more loyalty to them.

Apple has done all three successfully - Steve Jobs was a personal brand, but Rob thinks Tim Cook has done a good job.

Who has heard of ‘Intuitive Standard?’ No one Rob imagines, but this is his own holding company in the context of property!

Decide whether to go personal first or company first. 

If you're selling e.g. selling deals as a packager then you need a brand, but a property business doesn't need to sell except to get JVs on board. 

If Progressive Property goes west all the members of Progressive will go with it, he says, whereas personal brands are separate.

 Question 6.

Looking at uber and similar disruptive companies, people want different services right now. What do you think is next? VR/AI? (sorry not sure who asked this, please tag yourself in!)

 Rob replied: “Things that make people's lives easier faster, that's the way things are going.

Voice e.g. Alexa works really well, Siri has been slow and clunky.

Home automation systems are useful.” 

Rob is waiting for voice control.

Barclays tech on their app for example, is amazing he says.

What needs disrupting in property is how long everything takes. 

Block chain might help with this. 

In the next 2 or 3 years probably nothing much will change.

Podcasts have boomed but people were doing these 15 years ago. VR for property viewings will most likely be the first.” 

Question 7. Andrew asked: 

What is the right way forward to raise finance?

Rob: “There's horses for courses.

Angels are good if this is suitable for the project and for the experience they could bring to the party.” 

Bridging is expensive he says, Rob won't pay more than 12% per year. Mid-term is expensive too. 

With Mark, when they started off Marks mum lent them money and they paid her interest - this was the simplest option. 

Rob advises building relationships with people. He doesn't pitch to people anymore.

And he doesn't JV with his mentees. 

Justin Rose has put a 7-figure sum into their M&S deal. This was after Justin’s sister read Life Leverage, told Justin about it and got in touch with Rob. 

Rob suggests that it’s a bad idea to borrow ￡10k from lots of people - too complicated as it’s really hard to manage so many people’s needs. 

If he was struggling, he knows people he could borrow money from because he’s made the contacts.

All money comes from people.

Even if it's a bank.

Mark’s worst nightmare is if someone in a bank retires or leaves, because he has relationships with all these people, which makes everything work so well. 

Used to go to Angel’s Den and property Angel’s Den and chatted to loads of people. And got to know them. Liquidity is all about people. 

Specific suggestions from Rob:

• For short term e.g. 6* months bridging is fine
• For buying properties under ￡500k family friends
• Over ￡500k and ￡1-2million - go to other people.

Question 8. Gaurav asked:

How do I get my wife/partner involved in what I’m doing in property?  

Rob answered, “Why?” Learning ‘how to pitch without pitching’ would be the thing to do if you really want to do this.

Rob suggested a plan of action:

1. Go to your employer and tell them what you’re doing so that they don’t find out from anyone else.
2. The best way to motivate any partner – you have to find out what is more important to them in their life and ‘sell’ what you’re doing to them based on those needs.
3. Rob says his wife’s two highest values are security and sacrifice – so if Rob takes a day off work of gives up something that’s really important to him, then she knows he really loves her. Security is very important to her, so Rob reckons a life insurance policy for her Birthday would be great present!

Have a conversation with your wife/partner/significant other and ask, “What is most important to you in your life?” 

Write it down!

Say: “I’m doing this for our {the important thing} whether it’s financial freedom or whatever the most important thing is. 

This also works for any kind of influence scenario, e.g. JV finance, usually weaving in the CREST model this be used really well.

Ask, “What’s most important to you in lending your money?” For Mark, Rob says, its the first charge!!  

For Rob, it’s people, and recently they’ve been working with Justin Rose the No. 1 GB golfer and Rob gets on really well with him, which is great with Bobby playing golf. 

Rob says, “Never lose the desire to listen to people, to understand them.” 

Mark and Rob are different. Rob will say in 5 year’s time, he’ll get this or do that, whereas Mark will do things silently, without anyone knowing, then announce what he’s done afterwards.

 Question 9. Steven asked:  

When Rob started, how did he manage all these conversations? What CRM did he use?

Rob says that now he has 2 PAs as he couldn’t manage everything himself.

Rob harked back to the early days when they had Goldmine, an early CRM, this is old now. Now they use Infusionsoft, but he doesn’t even know the log in!!

Rob feels that often a business card can be like saying, “I don’t want to talk to you again.” For him at least. He likes to get people’s phone numbers or WhatsApp and speak to them directly.

 Usually it takes seven hours of conversation to gain a good sense of trust with someone, as a rule of thumb.

When Rob was younger, he felt like he had to ‘do everything yesterday’, he was ‘on it’ the whole time. He was like a terrier constantly humping a lamppost!!!)

He now has a lot of faith that if he does good, it will come back to him. 

Rob speaks for ￡10k + VAT normally, but he’s speaking at the PPN free of charge. He knows some good will come of this. 

Rob pushes himself to be more connected with people. He does four calls per day to help people, as he knows things can be difficult for people. His Dad was bipolar and that was tough, so hard for his Mum. He appreciates that people have similar difficult situations.

(And he’s now not always just humping the lamppost like a terrier!!!) 

With regard to tech he uses, Rob uses Evernote to capture notes and thoughts, he has only just got over paper!! 

Question 10. Eve asked:

Eve’s question was about Rob’s daughter – what advice will he be giving her about life, money, entrepreneurship?

Rob said that before he read Malcolm Gladwell’s books (where the author expands on the theory that 10,000 hours of deep practice means you can be accomplished at anything) he used to think that we are good at is pre-ordained. All genetic. In the book ‘Bounce’ author Matthew Syed explores how skills and talent aren’t born, they are made.  

Rob realised that nothing is genetic, everything is learned.

Having said that, the personalities of Rob’s kids are very different – Bobby is shy, his daughter Ariana, is the opposite. Rob said she will probably have 15 men tied on a rope!! She will probably be a queen or an actress, as she’s very gregarious.

To balance their personalities, Rob and his wife will need to hold her back in some ways, whereas with Bobby it will be bringing him forwards.

Bobby saves all his money, Ariana will probably take risks and spend money.

He will have to teach them what the world is like, to understand that it isn’t the same everywhere.

As a parent it’s about giving support when they’re challenged and challenge when they are supported.

We tend to protect our kids from the things that hurt us, which may be beneficial, it may sometimes not.

He’s teaching his kids about money. When reading stories, he reads the lessons he wants them to learn into these. Rob references Zig Ziglar in the stories we tell (ourselves) who wrote a book, ‘Raising Positive Kids in a Negative World,’: your kids are more receptive in the morning and late at night, so bedtime stories are great partly for this reason.

Rob talked about Bobby’s golf, he’s the youngest person to get a hole in one. Money was an incentive and Rob offered Bobby ￡100 for a hole in one.

Now he’s done it four times, Bobby’s doing really well out of this!! Then Rob offered him Kruggerands if he won, so he’s the youngest kid to be talking about Kruggerands too!

If you link what they love the most, e.g. playing with dinosaurs on the golf course, practising dressed as batman then your kids will enjoy what they’re doing. Rob links Bobby’s golf with whatever he is interested in at the moment, so it’s more fun and who cares if other people (on the golf course etc) thinks it’s crazy!! 

Question 11. Daniel asked:

He has experience delivering construction projects, residential refurbs, but is new to property. What advice can Rob give to find development opportunities? 

Rob says start with smaller projects and start with smaller conversions – do new builds after doing a couple of conversions, not first. And not all over the country. Rob and Mark have one company that does all of their refurbs. You can only do that when you’re in one area. The best deal is always the deal closest to you. You could buy in e.g. Newcastle because of the yield. A ticket to Newcastle must be ￡100, Rob said. If your yield is ￡100 pcm then you’ve blown it straight away just by travelling to see the property once!

Knowing an area better than anywhere else makes it your goldmine area. Mark knows all of the commercial agents, and has a great relationship with all the agents and auction houses.  

When Mark was bidding on their latest project, his contacts at the auction house said, “If you bid ￡x amount, you’ll win this.” 

And Mark took his advice, and sure enough he did win it. It’s who you know that makes that difference, and listening to their advice.

You can only get that level of depth when you build relationships and people get to know you.

Mark does clever, but simple things - he goes down streets that he wouldn’t normally go down on his route, and discovers properties that are opportunities. Rob himself did that recently when he walked home with his kids a different way and saw a house that he’d never seen before, even though he’s lived in the same place for a number of years. That could be an opportunity.

You can go to agents, sourcers etc, but if you get known in an area, that’s when the best opportunities come. 

Question 12. Tara asked:

You have built such an amazing culture in your company, how do you create such a team?

Having built the company, Rob wanted to enjoy life, and wanted his staff to enjoy working for him and enjoy life too!

Now he doesn’t know absolutely everyone there, which he finds a bit strange, but it’s all good. Rob reminds us that no one works for you (as a boss) they all work for themselves. If it serves them to work for you then they will.

Don’t ever say, “You work for me!”, that will be the worst thing you could ever do and would build resentment.

Rob is clear on the fact that he works for his staff, and not the other way around.

 This concluded Rob’s Q&A evening, massive thanks to him for taking the time to come and educate & entertain us all!!

This was a brilliant event with an energised atmosphere, loads of fascinating people really stretching themselves to achieve so much!! I’m very grateful to have been there, and look forward to seeing everyone next month!!

Thanks, Sally :)