Reflections on 19 years in Japan

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:00:00):

Outside the box is what we enjoy in the West. We kind of encourage it in a way. That’s why we have innovative thinkers and ... Japan is not completely without these people, but they thrive despite the system, not because of it. They have to be like mavericks, and probably they get in trouble at school and they probably get bullied because they don’t follow the system. That’s why in a cafe, they’re not given milk, because the boss probably said, “We don’t give milk with tea” or “We don’t give butter with bread.”

Lydia Beukelman (Interviewer) (00:00:26):

A quick reminder to please rate and review the podcast if you enjoy it. It goes a long way to helping others find the podcast and learn more and it also helps me to keep going as an independent creator. So, thanks in advance today.

Lydia Beukelman (Interviewer) (00:00:38):

Today, I’m sharing a conversation with Richard Mort, an international communications specialist. who has decades of immersion in Japanese language and culture, cross cultural understanding and fluency in French and German as well. His work includes translation, editing, copywriting, and marketing services. Richard has a long history in Japan, beginning his career there as a young bachelor and he is now in the process of setting up shop in Germany with his family, but before we get into the interview, let’s go over a little bit of Japanese.

Lydia Beukelman (Interviewer) (00:01:07):

In the previous episode, we went over one of my personal favorite words, Bōnenkai (忘年会). Bōnenkai refers to a year end party, usually in the context of a company. However, if you look at the kanji used in this word, they literally translate to a ‘Forget the year meeting.’ If you want to hear more, be sure to check out the previous episode.

Lydia Beukelman (Interviewer) (00:01:36):

This week I want to teach you a phrase that I bring up later in the conversation with Richard. While it may seem like a pretty simple benign phrase, I’ll explain later why it means so much for people living and working in Japan. Nihongo joozu. Nihongo is the Japanese word for the Japanese language. Joozu is the Japanese word for good at or skilled. So this phrase is a casual way of saying, “Good at Japanese.” The more polite way of saying this, that you’re probably more likely to encounter is Nihongo ga o-joozu desu ne! which a Japanese person may say in response to even the most basic of Japanese.

Lydia Beukelman (Interviewer) (00:02:27):

In contrast, the way I use Nihongo joozu in this episode is a tongue in cheek way that foreigners in Japan often referred to how common it is for Japanese people to compliment someone who maybe can’t even say more than a heavily accented Konnichiwa. This isn’t something to take personally or get frustrated about though, as it really is just a way to be polite and make conversation rather than any sort of slight or insult. However, many foreigners in Japan make it a goal to graduate from the Nihongo joozu response from native Japanese speakers to the coveted, “How long have you been living in Japan?” As that usually marks the point at which your Nihongo has truly become joozu.

Lydia Beukelman (Interviewer) (00:03:11):

But without any further delay, let’s get into today’s conversation with Richard Mart.

Lydia Beukelman (Interviewer) (00:03:15):

Well, thank you so much for being on the podcast today. Would you mind introducing yourself to my audience?

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:03:21):

Yeah. Thanks Lydia. It’s a pleasure to be here. It took a while to get the time, but I’m really happy I could be here. My name’s Richard Mort. Rich to my friends. I’m from the UK originally. I lived in Japan since 2002, and in that time, I lived six months in Aichi-ken, and then eight years in Tokyo, and the rest of the time has been in Kobe, where I am now.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:03:40):

As I speak to you, it’s 2021 and we’re in the middle of a crazy pandemic around the world. I think everyone listening is probably in the same boat, so to speak. Personally, it’s been tough. But I have a big move to Germany coming up in April. So it seems like the right time to reflect on Japan and what I’ve done here, and share a few memories of people and experiences, and I’m really happy to have the chance to do so. Thanks very much.

Lydia Beukelman (Interviewer) (00:04:06):

Yeah. I’m glad that we could be a part of your wrapping things up in Japan process. Might be a little cathartic to go over your experiences before you leave. So could you tell us a little bit more about your history with Japan?

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:04:20):

Yeah, it could be a very long conversation, but I’ll try to not make it too long. Going back to my childhood, I grew up in the south west of England. I’m from the UK, which was a happier place at that time I have to say: no COVID and no BREXIT. I grew up in Devon, which is very green and it’s the postcard image of Britain, which American people especially have - this image of green hills and cows grazing and buildings which are very old and scones and jam. Actually, it’s all that. To be honest, it fits the stereotype. And that was a small town of 11,000 people, and that was where I grew up. It’s called Tavistock.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:04:54):

And when I was a child, I was in an idyllic situation by most standards and pretty lucky. But I used to tell my mum, “Mum, I want to go and live in Tokyo,” because it was the polar opposite. It was the big lights, the bright lights, big city on the other side of the world. We have London, but that was my own country so it was less fascinating than Tokyo. So that was one of the recurring themes as a child. And then when I was a teenager, when I was 13, we moved to North England, to Sheffield. And this is 30 years ago, I’m embarrassed to say, but around 30 years ago, I just couldn’t sleep one night. It was before Facebook and the Internet and so on before mobile phones.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:05:31):

So I went downstairs and switched on the TV and BBC was showing this educational program. BBC2, overnight, they showed these programs that people recorded and watched the next day. And it just so happened that the program I watched happened to be called Japanese Language and People. And it was the end of the bubble. So Japan was really coming out of the bubble period. And what I saw was a kind of combination of tradition, like the beautiful shrine in Hiroshima, but also technology, the West Shinjuku skyscrapers. And it kind of grabbed me, and probably I thought back to that time in the little town in Devon, and I thought to myself, “This is where I want to be at some point.” And I said, “I definitely will be there.” I’ve always been very stubborn and followed through. So that those two things together probably explain why I came to Japan.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:06:25):

But having said that, I studied French and German, not Japanese. I studied French and German, and I graduated and went to Singapore first. Which is Asia, but not Japan. It’s almost like a British piece of Asia because it used to be British and they play cricket and they drink tea. So it was like an easy springboard into Asia. They speak English – it’s Singapore English, but it’s still English. So I spent five years there, and that was really a good grounding for me, I would say. But after five years, this voice in my head said, “It’s time for Japan.” So I felt it was time. And I learned just a little bit of language, like numbers and greetings, and flew to Tokyo and started a job in for six months in a conversation school. And it was hard at the start. I had six months in Aichi and it was very hard. But then I went to Tokyo and then things started getting better quite quickly. And so that’s the start. The quick version.

Lydia Beukelman (Interviewer) (00:07:23):

How did you end up finding what you consider to be success, both with the language and with relationships in Japan then?

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:07:29):

Well, after six months in Aichi, I moved to Tokyo. And Aichi was tough for many reasons. I felt that living there would help me learn Japanese because it wasn’t a big city – I wasn’t actually in Nagoya; I was one hour away even from Nagoya. So it was really countryside - Inaka. I wanted to try osmosis and go in at the deep end, but it was too deep. And I would end up eating only at Saizeriya or Mr. Donut because they were the only menus I could read. And I didn’t have a lot of money and no friends in the country. So it was a tough time. And the school took me on, and the boss actually had some respect for me, because she knew I wasn’t enjoying it, but I soldiered on. So after six months, she actually drove me to Tokyo all the way from Aichi, because she felt like I’d done my best for six months.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:08:13):

And how did I start getting success? I’m very intense. So when I set my mind to something, I really go at it 200%, or even more. So I decided that an obvious job for me to do was editing and proofreading, even without Japanese skills, because I’ve always been a voracious reader and I type fast and read fast, so I felt this was me. So I have to thank my late father-in-law, who passed away a few years ago, because at the time he bought me a nice new PC from Akihabara. And that was the kind of push I needed. And I remember registering with every single translation agency in Japan, literally. The town pages, NTT Town Pages. I just had this tunnel vision and I would email every single company email address and even for the companies without email, I would find the fax number and fax them. To that extent, honestly. There are probably some people in different parts of Japan who still have that fax somewhere.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:09:06):

But the thing is, that time was a boom. Artificial translation wasn’t at the same level that it is now – there was still a bigger gap between Google Translate and what people can do. And so the work came like a river. I would open my PC and there’d be jobs waiting for me. And while the rate per word wasn’t that amazing, my capacity to do it fast and well was really high. And honestly, I quickly built up a client base, and I found work which suited me perfectly. And I don’t want to brag or anything, I’m telling the truth here, but they were boom years for me. I didn’t have a kid yet. I have two kids now, but I was still ... I’d met my woman who’s now my wife, but we were not married at that time. But I was living in Tokyo and it was my dream. So I’d made the dream come true and I wanted to enjoy it.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:09:55):

So all the things you can do with money in Tokyo, probably I would do. Lost in Translation, you’ve probably seen the film. I stayed in the hotel there. Two or three years into my time in Japan I became 30, and then I was depressed, “Oh I’m 30,” and then my wife’s friend said, “No ...Men get better after 30!” I had married by then - I’m jumping a bit, sorry - but we married after a year. Anyway, but I was still without a child. So there was a nice shop in Ginza I used to go once a week to have tea and cake. And I used to hang out in Ginza and Aoyama a bit. And I asked the shop, “Can I have my party here?” And normally they wouldn’t do it, but they did it for me because I was a good customer.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:10:33):

So middle of Ginza, the basement is reserved for me. We have a chef from Paris who made a special menu for me. 24 friends came. I remember it very well, actually. And the shop, it was more like a wedding than a birthday party. They did roast beef and Yorkshire pudding, and lemon meringue pie, my favorite foods, and a special cocktail and I even hired a projector and showed some of my favorite movies to my friends. So that was a kind of ... I would call it my bubble period in a way.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:11:03):

I was doing work which was lucrative and which suited me. I was working too hard and I didn’t have the big network I have now, but I would go through cycles of very hard work and really splurgy holidays, because it’s like recovery. You put your foot down to the floor, but then you want to enjoy all the things you can do in a big city. Or I’d fly to Thailand and stay in a nice hotel in Bangkok or Chiang Mai. I could give you many anecdotes, but here is one for example, that time, during those years in Tokyo. The G8 summit happened in Japan, the G8, as it was then, not the G20 now, but the G8. At the time, the UK Prime Minister was Gordon Brown. I think Clinton was the US president. Anyway, they all went to Hokkaido to Toyako, and there’s a famous hotel called Windsor Hotel there. And Hokkaido’s very beautiful. There’s a lake, and I saw it on TV - a super luxury hotel, like seven-star level. And obviously locals didn’t stay there. It was all people from Tokyo. They hired a Russian harpist in the lobby. I remember one anecdote - the panes of glass in the lobby were so big they couldn’t take them by truck. They had to get a helicopter to carry them because they were so big. And I stayed there a week.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:12:13):

I had a very, very hard two months up to Christmas, and I remember taking the train from Ueno station on Christmas day, a sleeper train, Cassiopeia. And obviously it’s not the fastest or the cheapest way to go there, but it’s very exciting to take a sleeper train. You have French food on the train, and those memories for me at priceless. It’s still fresh in my head, and I really enjoyed it.

Lydia Beukelman (Interviewer) (00:12:37):

Something I feel like maybe has fallen a little bit to the wayside recently, because a lot of books and seminars focus on what types of qualities you need to develop in order to be successful, but in reality, what your story shows is that if you have a strong enough why, you can really just, no matter what, make it happen.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:12:59):

I think in terms of the work, I found the right fit. A perfect fit, a hand in glove. But in terms of success in Japan, moving on a bit to the medium and longer term, the social success that I feel I did have that in a really high level, but I was never naturally a people person or a magnet for friends or something. I had a lot of times in my life when I couldn’t make friends with anyone, even the same gender, or let alone the opposite sex. And it was full circle in Japan.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:13:27):

But turning to Japanese. So doing these years in Tokyo, eight years in Tokyo, where I really enjoyed my life, I did feel the need to learn Japanese. And it wasn’t so much to make a living, because I was making good living anyway, but it was more like there must be more doors that can open here. Because my friends at the time were only people who spoke English in Japan, so up until that point it had been quite limited. I used to go to a dentist in Ginza that spoke English. I used to go to the hairdresser in Aoyama for English-speaking hairdressing. So my circle was all about the English-speaking service providers.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:13:59):

And this intensity I mentioned to you, I’d also apply it to when I was finding a teacher. So I looked at all the options, all the media where I could find a teacher from. For example, online agencies, or even offline. I would email the school and say, “Can you send a teacher to my home?” So working from home, and my schedule was hectic with all the work coming in, so I didn’t really want to commit to going to a central school. The ideal for me was having a teacher would come to see me. And I had some trial lessons, and I was living in Kichijoji at the time, which is 20 minutes from Shinjuku in West Tokyo. Very nice area. I was lucky. It was really nice area. Very desirable. That was home in Tokyo. And a teacher came from Asakusa, the other side of Tokyo. So about one hour, door to door.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:14:44):

And I’m still in touch with her. Not so much, but I have to say a huge thank you to her, because as anyone who learns Japanese knows, you have to do the hard work in the end. In the end, we haven’t reached a stage where a teacher can put it into your head. They can encourage you and motivate you, it can help you structure stuff, but in the end, you have to do the hard work. I’m sure you know. And I did, but she was a great motivator. She was, again, the right fit for me. She was like a Japanese mum in a way. She always used to bring a cream bun, the Japanese way, when she came to my house. And I actually don’t like this Japanese habit of eating stuff full of cream, the mammoth cream. And I always used to say something like, “Oh, thanks. I’ve just had lunch, so I’ll put in the fridge.” I never used to eat it.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:15:25):

But that aside, she was a great teacher. And she lived near Sumida river. So when they had the fireworks, not now because of COVID, but before when they had the Sumida river fireworks, fireworks, she used to invite us to her house on the roof to see the fireworks. It was great. And some of her friends became my friends. So she wasn’t just a teacher. She was more like a solid mother figure.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:15:47):

And as I learned Japanese, doors definitely opened. And I saw them opening, and I think that motivated me to go to events, meet people, speak to people. It never came naturally, but when I saw the effect it had, because I’d never had it before, it was like a kind of drug. It’s hard to describe, but a thrill I get, in a way, or I used to get. The social success seemed bigger because I didn’t have any benchmarks to measure it against before. It was like treading new ground, and it meant more for me for that reason.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:16:19):

So yeah, I’ve always been a full power person, full of energy. So I applied the same energy to socializing, especially before I had a kid. And if it were an event or party, I would go. International parties. That’s another topic we could cover later. But when you’re relatively new in Japan, you go to these parties, everyone’s nice to you, and everyone smiles, and you get a lot of contact requests, you get a lot of business cards. And you come back from the party thinking, “God, this is easy. This socializing thing. I’ve made 10 new friends today.” And the reality is different, as we know, but at the time you have a buzz.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:16:57):

Another anecdote I remember from the early years is with Asahi TV and the program they used to do called SMAP Station with the now disbanded group SMAP. And somewhere I’d read there was a job there, like you could be part of the audience and having that kind of opportunity is really exciting when you’re new in Tokyo.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:17:18):

So I remember, it only paid 5,000 yen and they paid the taxi home, and you just had to stand there and clap. It was nothing work, it was grunt work, but it was still exciting because it was the middle of Tokyo, and you were on TV. So, they were good times. They were exciting times. I was living the dream, you could say. I guess it was like living the dream because I’d always imagined doing the stuff you could do in Tokyo and I was doing it, so it was a great feeling. Yeah.

Lydia Beukelman (Interviewer) (00:17:44):

Yeah. It’s easy to underestimate the importance of getting that sort of positive feedback, like you mentioned, with learning Japanese and then socializing too. Those seem like what really kept you going, because getting that positive feedback helped you renew your energy to keep going and keep fighting for these things.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:18:04):

I always describe myself as someone full of fire. And I still use that term because, I don’t know what it is, but it was driving me to work. And I very rarely said no to a job for example. And that’s not normal because as a freelancer you multitask, but there’s a limit. Of course I had a limit too, but my limit was very high and I rarely said no. I prided myself, and it wasn’t really just the money, I mean, the money was good, but it was more like, I don’t know, I felt this dynamic urge to work.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:18:33):

And when mum came to Japan - my mum came to Japan three times in total - unfortunately, she was due to come last March, and obviously it couldn’t happen, but she came to see me three times in Japan from the UK. And of course, when I was at this peak of work in Tokyo, I wanted to show her the best of Japan and treat her to the best stuff. And she never would have expected it, mum has a quiet, simple life, and I took her on a total of 52 trains over two and a half weeks in Japan, I remember I counted them. And I put her in the green car every time because I wanted her to relax totally. And I put her in nice hotels. We flew to Kyoto on New Year’s Day from Hokkaido and we went to Kinkakuji Temple.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:19:13):

And the last time she came to Japan, I guess, I’m jumping again here, but the principle’s the same. We stayed in a nice auberge, not a ryokan, but like a Western-style ryokan you could say. And they had an onsen outside, a personal hot spring. She wasn’t that keen on a shared onsen bath, because as you know, British people are shy.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:19:33):

But I said, “Mum, this is your special chance because we have a super-luxury room and you don’t usually get your own onsen.” But we had our own onsen on the balcony. So I said, “I’m going to have a nap now, so this is your chance to go in the onsen, no-one else is around, you should enjoy.” And she did. And I was very pleased that literally my hard work made that kind of thing possible. And she was quite emotional when I talked about it with her. Because you want her to be proud in a way. But she was more concerned that I was working too hard, which was probably true. But I was happy that I could show her some things special in Japan. Yeah.

Lydia Beukelman (Interviewer) (00:20:05):

Yeah. I’m glad that you could have all of those special experiences and share them with your family. That’s really important. Before you mentioned to me that you’ve had some run-ins in your career when it comes to inflexibility with Japanese companies, would you be willing to share a little bit more about that?

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:20:23):

Yeah. I guess anyone who’s been here a long time like myself would have these stories. The one that sticks in my mind really quite clearly is one from my early years in Tokyo. And I’ve been freelancing almost all the while. But there was a company I worked for back then, they did telephone English. I don’t think they do these kinds of things now because there’s too many ways to do it otherwise. But they literally recorded the English of company workers and it was Nissan. Nissan weren’t employing me directly, but Nissan was using this telephone school to check their employees’ English. This is well before Carlos Ghosn by the way, I don’t think they’d heard of him yet.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:20:57):

Anyway, my job was to get to the office in Shinjuku and call the employees, talk to them for a few minutes and make an assessment. And it was a very Japanese company I remember and I lived in Setagaya Ward at the time in Tokyo, not Kichijoji. But anyway, I had to take the Odakyu train to Shinjuku, which wasn’t a very long way, but it was horribly crowded back then, much more than now. It was a really tough time. Anyway, I’m not a morning person as I told you. And I got up and I was late, so I was rushing. And I had a shirt on, but no tie. And I literally had a choice between getting the train and going and getting there just on time or putting my tie on and probably missing the train. So I chose to not wear a tie and get to the office on time.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:21:42):

And we weren’t in front of the customer even. We weren’t in front of the customer, we were doing telephone English. So in a way, what’s the point, right? But the boss or the president noticed, and he called me into the office and yelled at me for 10 minutes, like “What are you doing not wearing a tie?! It’s disgusting!” And really like ... And I thought, I don’t need this, this is not me, I’m not having this. And I just quit.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:22:05):

That was an extreme example. Day to day inflexibility, I’ll give you an example. I love tea by the way. I mean, I can’t function without tea, maybe very British, but I love my tea. I’m hopeless without it. So I would go to a cafe, and I like tea with milk, Assam tea. And in Japan it could be 500 or 600 yen for a cup. Well, so be it, I like my tea, so if it has to cost that much, it will cost that much, even more sometimes.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:22:34):

But then they bring the tea, and I like it with milk, and they don’t give milk or they give horrible UHT long-life milk. And I say, politely, “Can I have some milk please?” And they say something like, “There’s no milk.” And I stop and pause for a while and I say firmly in Japanese, “If you open that fridge behind you, there’s definitely milk in there, can you give me some milk, please?” And usually you get a result, but it’s the robotic nature which does my head in a bit.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:23:03):

And there’s one memory, okay, in Ueno station, they had a Hard Rock Café and still have one - there’s a Hard Rock Cafe in Ueno station. And I don’t know why I was bothering to have a cup of tea in a Hard Rock Cafe, it’s not going to be nice, but I have tea anywhere.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:23:16):

So I go to the Hard Rock and I just feel like a burger, but then I just felt like washing all the grease down with some tea. So I ordered some tea from the young student who was serving me and he brought me some tea. Then I said, “Sorry, can I have some milk please?” And he didn’t like that. He didn’t like the fact I was asking for milk. So he goes to the kitchen, I don’t know, probably does something to the milk. Brings it back and he slammed the jug down. And I sprang up and walked over to the manager, furious. I said, “I’m not having that.” I said, “This is disgusting.” I know what’s expected, and this kind of thing.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:23:50):

But inflexibility, I’ll give you a more recent example. I’m jumping. I’ve given you one from the past. And very recently, you know the COVID times, COVID is difficult for all of us. I’m moving to Germany in April. And for that purpose, I had to travel to Germany, despite COVID, last December, a really tough time, but I had to take the family. So I have two kids now. We have a baby, a year and a half, and we have a special needs boy, who’s 11 and my wife.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:24:18):

So you can imagine, even just going alone would be hard enough. And having four of us is off the scale. But somehow, I made it happen. And we rely on as much help as possible for my son because it’s hard work with special needs in Japan, I would say especially. And before we went, I knew about the two weeks’ quarantine, but I said to a lawyer friend who’d helped me get permanent residency, I said, “Can you check with the powers that be that my son will be able to go to school or be able to have some help and provision?” Because they do say, when you have these two weeks’ quarantine, you can go shopping, you have to buy food. So avoid people, don’t take public transport, but you can go shopping.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:24:58):

But equally important for us is having help with the kids. Because we’ve got the baby, we’ve got a special needs kid, without help it’s a full-time job keeping them calm and away from each other in a way. And I have to work, who’s the breadwinner, it’s me. And the school, my son’s elementary school, understood that and they were willing to let him come back. We came back on the 19th of December and the school ran till Christmas Eve. And then I find that the headmaster of the school, the principal, calls the education department in Kobe, where I live. And he’s told, no, they can’t because it’s quarantine.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:25:39):

And I was thinking, that’s laughable. For a start, 90% of the kids are not being tested and he’s been tested four times. He was tested four times, separate times, negatively. And also, I’d had it checked. And I got really angry. But I thought to myself, I’ve won these kinds of battles before if I fight hard enough but is it worth it because I’m leaving soon. But I thought the attitude was totally terrible. What made me angry was knowing what kind of person made the decision. Totally robotic, old men in a room. I’m sorry to sound prejudiced, but I’m 99% sure it was that kind of person. They’ve gone through the system, they’re robotic, they’re totally ... I made this point several times to my friend. I said, “It wouldn’t matter if he’d had a negative test every day, day in day out, they wouldn’t budge, stubbornly, obsessively, because they think the rule is the rule and we have to just do it because the rule is there.”

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:26:26):

And that kind of inflexibility, I feel it more now because I’ve been here 18 years and probably before I would let it wash under the table, or I would go with the flow more. But now, because I see Europe coming, my sensitivity and patience for such needless things is really low. I don’t think it’s good for Japan. Not good for me, but it’s just such a, I don’t know, a waste. And needless, I think it’s just totally needless.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:26:54):

But I blame the system. I mean, I don’t want to make this a Japan bashing in a monologue, but honestly, I want to say my opinion, the education system in Japan is designed to feed information in, instructions and orders. I know this because I’ve been a PTA Chairman, I’ve been at the sharp end. I’ve been involved with a school. The teachers in my son’s school are great, but they work within the system. And the system is designed to have the kids come in, be docile, listen to instructions, even orders. And the teacher will always say at the end, do you have any questions?. And no one puts their hand up. No one does. The nail that stands out will be hammered down. And it’s never more evident than in the education system.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:27:32):

And I knew that the guys making decisions on quarantine, they were products of that system. So it was no surprise to me. They don’t even think about it. They wouldn’t listen to anything, they’d say, no, we decided. And that for me is very, at this point of my time in Japan, my tolerance for that is extremely low. Yeah, it’s kind of cathartic share that as well. You get what I mean I think don’t you, yeah?

Lydia Beukelman (Interviewer) (00:27:55):

Right. Because the way bureaucracy is set up in Japan is obviously it’s set up to address the most mainstream situations, the most common situations, but anything that falls outside of those, it just cannot cope with them. There’s no way to do anything outside of this narrow kind of lane that’s been set up. So if you have any needs for exceptions or any special accommodations, it’s very hard to get anything done.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:28:26):

They’re not comfortable with ... outside the box is what we enjoy in the west. We kind of encourage it in a way. That’s why we have innovative thinkers. And Japan does not. It’s not completely without these people, but they thrive despite the system not because of it. They have to be mavericks and probably they get in trouble at school and they probably get bullied because they don’t follow the system. As you said exactly, they don’t feel comfortable outside the box.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:28:49):

That’s why in a cafe, they don’t give me milk because the boss has obviously said, “We don’t give milk with tea. Or we don’t give butter with bread.” Because it probably costs more. And again, I mean, I could have given you an anecdote about butter. I had some bread in a restaurant and I wanted butter with it. And if you push hard enough, they go to the fridge and they give you some cooking butter. But they hate it. They look at you with daggers in their eyes because they don’t like it.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:29:11):

And I sometimes fight my corner. Not because I want to make their life difficult, because I feel it’s justified. But as you said, you have to expend a lot of energy. And I don’t always do that now because it’s the endgame.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:29:25):

But again, the immigration policy for foreigners is also controversial, a lot of Japanese people aren’t aware that until recently, or even now, foreigners coming back into Japan from most countries have to have a COVID test within 72 hours before flying back. But Japanese nationals don’t have to. And that’s in black and white on the Ministry of Foreign Affairs homepage. Japanese nationals don’t have to submit to this extra COVID test. Everyone’s tested on arrival, but foreigners have to have an extra test before that too.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:29:53):

Leaving aside the fact that around us in the plane are loads of Japanese people who haven’t been tested, which is ridiculous. And again, that for me is a clumsy disincentive. It was literally, we don’t want people traveling, so we have to put something in the way. There’s no other reason for it.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:30:07):

And my sensitivity to this is greater now. But I did make the point, I made two points recently when I was airing these criticisms, I said, “I’m not afraid to criticize my own country before someone throws that at me, someone will throw that at me because I’m from the UK.” I said, “I think Brexit is a calamity. I cannot forgive Brexit. I mean, I cannot forgive my freedom of movement being taken away.”

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:30:27):

And that’s a big reason why I’m going to Germany instead of the UK. And the COVID situation in the UK is or was among the worst in the world. The rate of infection and the number of people who’ve passed away per capita in the UK is probably the worst in the world. So I said, “I’m very ready to criticize my own country.” The second point is that no one would live there 18 years if they hated everything about Japan. I don’t hate everything. I had some great times here. But I feel I’ve had enough, seen enough, done enough here to give a valid opinion on the system. Yeah.

Lydia Beukelman (Interviewer) (00:30:55):

Right. As an American looking at the past four years, I always feel weird commenting on those kind of nationalistic policies in Japan. Because obviously our policies in the previous years have been less than idyllic. But yeah, I understand what you’re coming from. You have these criticisms because you love Japan, because you have this deep connection with Japan, and you want it to be, in the same way you want England or whatever country you’re going to be moving to in the future, to be the best it could be. You have those same feelings towards Japan. So I completely understand that.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:31:32):

Yeah. I mean, there’s many points that come into my mind when we’re talking. It’s not a Japan-bashing diatribe, not at all. It’s an inconvenient truth sometimes, some of what I’m saying, are inconvenient truths. And actually when I put points like that, no one really questions them because they are true. You can’t.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:31:47):

But the other thing, I mean, it’s a wide topic, but the refugees thing, Japan donates a lot of money overseas via JICA. I know because I’ve often translated and edited JICA reports. So overseas aid for Japan is a very high priority I would say. They do spend a lot of taxpayers’ money on helping people overseas.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:32:04):

But you look at numbers, how many refugees do they let into Japan? They let in about 30 literally. It’s like that, it’s like 20, 30, 40. And when you think about the other extreme, Germany, a million. I mean, that may be too much the other way. But I think to myself, it’s insulting. It’d be better if you didn’t let anyone in. How do you pick these 30 people? And in a way it’s just a joke, 30 people, in a country of 120 million. 0.000025%. How do you pick those 30 people? Wouldn’t it be better to not do any? Because it’s like leaving a tip of two cents. It’s better not to leave anything. You know what I mean? That kind of feeling.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:32:35):

So I feel like ... I’m never afraid to speak my mind. And one more point is, my wife is Japanese. So the point about the testing for COVID before I go back, my kids have Japanese nationality. So I was the only one that had to do it. And she wasn’t aware until recently, and she was shocked as well. She said, “That’s like prejudice, that’s racist.”

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:32:56):

I said, “Yeah.” I said, “That is purely done on nationality.” As if the virus can distinguish. Yeah. So, these points, I’m not afraid to air them these days. As sometimes I think ...

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:33:08):

There’s one thing as well, which I’ve noticed as well, there’s many forums which we have: online groups about Japan, expats in Tokyo, expats in Japan, foreigners in Japan. And there are some groups, most of which are foreigners living here… there are a few Japanese members, but most of them are people like me who live in Japan.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:33:24):

And you may have noticed this in your own online world. But when you talk about Japan in a critical way, there are many foreigners who will jump on you and they will get hysterical in a way. And they’ll say, “No, Japan is Japan, Japan has the right to do what it wants, if you don’t like it, leave.” And I see it as a kind of, I don’t know what the word is, sycophancy or Stockholm syndrome, it’s like an inconvenient truth. You don’t want to hear this, do you, because your image of Japan is different. But it’s the reality. And by the way, yes, I said this about the UK, so don’t try and tell me that I don’t criticize my own country. Every country has good and bad, but don’t try and sweep it under the carpet. It’s not a land of milk and honey. There is good and bad here and it is healthy to discuss both. So yeah, that’s my perspective.

Lydia Beukelman (Interviewer) (00:34:13):

Right. And you’re free to say your opinion, Japan is free to ignore it. That’s just how it works. Just because you say something doesn’t mean you’re actually physically trying to force Japan to change single-handedly. It’s just something you’ve noticed, so you’re pointing it out, and you have ideas of how it could be better.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:34:34):

Yeah. I don’t think they would necessarily listen, if I went up to Tokyo on the shinkansen and go and try and knock on the door of the immigration department and say, “I want to talk to the boss. This is not fair policy.” I don’t think they’re going to mold policy around what I want. But I think it’s healthy to speak your mind, and I stand by what I say. And usually, I can justify it. But yeah, I think most people don’t want to rock the boat in a way, but I feel like I’ve earned ... I don’t know how you say earned your spurs or something. I’ve been around the block here, I know the country, and I’ve been to almost every prefecture. I think I’ve done Japan quite deeply. I’ve even been to islands like Yakushima, Sado Island, Amami Oshima. I’ve really done a lot here, so yeah.

Lydia Beukelman (Interviewer) (00:35:18):

You talked a bit about how this sort of mindset extends to schooling in Japan, but do you have any insight into medical care in Japan that foreigners should be aware of?

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:35:29):

Yeah. Well overall, Japan’s medical system is good compared to world standards. I’m not going to say where it is in the world standards, but it’s definitely one of the better countries for medical care. I haven’t had any really serious things happen to me, thankfully, but when I’ve needed a doctor, I have no real complaints.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:35:47):

On a personal level though, the patient manner is often different here. I can remember one anecdote in Kobe. I had just been getting thin and I hadn’t been exercising, so you end up panicking and you think, “Oh, I’m dying of cancer - I must be, because I’m getting thinner and I’m not running,” or whatever. So you go to the hospital and I think I probably convinced them to scan me. And so the day came and I wasn’t looking forward to it. And I said to them, “Just put me under. I don’t want to remember any of it. Just put me out.” And that probably wasn’t in their schedule, but they actually bent on that one because, I think, most of the time, they wouldn’t have done that. But the nurse who met me on the day, she just gave me a beaker and said, “Drink that.” And I said, “Hang on.” I said, “What are you asking me to drink? Exactly what is that?” And a Japanese person would have just drunk it.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:36:38):

And what I notice about medical things here is that doctors and teachers are seen ... well, they’re both referred to as senseis. They’re treated reverently. They have this higher status, which is fair enough because they’re doing a vital job. But from a Western perspective, we question, we get second opinions. We ask them why. We might ask a second doctor or a third doctor. And we want to know why and we want to kind of have a bit of to and fro. Again, like the school system, in Japan, when Japanese people typically go to a doctor, they will just listen to what the doctor says and say, “Okay, how long do I take this for? What do I take? Okay, thank you.” And that was a difference I found.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:37:14):

The other thing I mentioned here is a topical point. And I don’t want to be too controversial here. As I made the point just now, I’m not out to bash Japan, but I think it’s a valid point. As we know, American and Europe are having a terrible time with COVID. Japan, relatively speaking, is not in the same boat in terms of numbers. The numbers are not good, but they’re not crazy like Europe or the US. But having said that, the headline in the Japan Times today is like, “Patient dying.” Literally, I’m reading it now: “Virus patients dying, unable to access care.” And “Japan’s hospitals at limit,” all the headlines. And we wonder why? Because Japan has more beds per capita and the numbers are not that bad. Why?

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:37:56):

And I made that point in an online group today and the comments that came were really insightful... some of the people who had relatives work in hospitals. Basically, the system is not set up for it. And there’s all sorts of reasons. The hospital beds are there, but the system is not designed to cope with the pandemic. And the public hospitals are taking COVID patients, but the private hospitals aren’t, which is why there’s so much strain on the system.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:38:21):

And these are kind of systemic problems which require big decisions from the top. And as we all know, that doesn’t happen quickly in Japan at all. To give perspective on that thing, you know that the change from hankos, the kind of kerfuffle over switching from hankos to a digital document approval? To be honest, it was a tiny point in most people’s book. But in Japan, it’s a huge issue. It’s headline, front page news. So the scale is different. Changing the way hospitals are organized ... well, to be honest, there’s no quick fix. But it shows me that ... I was thinking if you had the number of patients that Europe or America had, we’d be in chaos. The whole country would collapse.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:39:03):

So I think I have a wide spectrum now and I read a lot of things. And I do notice ... I made my opinion felt in this area now. So the medical system is good, but it’s not coping with COVID very well at all, I would say.

Lydia Beukelman (Interviewer) (00:39:18):

And another complicating factor of that is it’s hard to get clear information on it, but at least from my friends’ experiences in Japan, it sounds like it’s really hard to get tested. So it’s hard to know for sure if the numbers are accurate if testing isn’t available. So there’s just a lot of complicating factors going on with the bureaucracy in hospitals there.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:39:40):

Actually, it’s very hard to get tested. I had to get a test for my son because he can’t wear a mask for 13 hours on a plane due to special needs. So the airline said, “Okay, he has to have a medical test no later than 72 hours before flying.” So I have to pay literally 30,000 yen, and I have to find a place that would test him. And it wasn’t that straightforward. And I think another friend was worried because he had a temperature, and they had to badger the hospital to give him a test. Obviously, some of the powers that be here say “We don’t want widespread testing.” Why? Well, I don’t know. Maybe they don’t want to ... because I honestly believe, yeah, if you tested across the board like everywhere else, numbers would be much higher. It’d be even more scary. It’s bad enough now.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:40:22):

But people say that Japan has much fewer people infected because of mask compliance and stuff. That is one factor. But I think a bigger factor is probably, as you said, lack of widespread testing, because a lot of people are asymptomatic as you know. So that was the point about my son as well. You say my son can’t go to school. He’s had four tests. And how about all the people around him who haven’t been tested? What do you think of this argument? Yeah, so I felt angry about that one.

Lydia Beukelman (Interviewer) (00:40:50):

So then you were talking about your son and the education system. And do you have any advice for non-Japanese people who are thinking about raising families in Japan?

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:41:00):

Yeah. I would say that it’s a very safe country and it’s a great experience to live there. I don’t want people to listen to my podcast and think, “Oh, it’s not,” because I’ve been here 18 years and I’m an intense person. And if it weren’t my cup of tea, I wouldn’t have been here. I have had great experiences here. And anyone who would like to ask me more about that, I’d be happy to share.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:41:23):

But my situation, I have a special needs kid, and that’s very difficult. Japan is not great at special needs. But if anyone, for example, had a special needs child and was in Japan, which could well happen, I would say that the mainstream, the stuff you get from the government, from the horse’s mouth, is just okay and not great. What I have had to do is look beyond that to things like NPOs and organizations and things online. For example, one approach that I would take would be to describe my situation in detail in Japanese and share it with a group of people who have disabilities or who care for people with disabilities. And then you get the word-of-mouth thing, which is very strong in Japanese society. You get people who recommend people. And when you have an NPO or NGO, a non-governmental organization ... that is more likely to deal with things like autism.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:42:14):

The Government has a certain amount of provision, but these centers are always away from the mainstream and downtown areas. They’re always geographically on the edge. You don’t see people with Down’s syndrome very often in mainstream society here. These people do exist, but they are not kind of included in the mainstream planning. And Japan is lacking quite a lot in that area. The most visible thing it does is put yellow braille tablets on train platforms for blind people. But in terms of dealing with supplemental special needs, autism, Asperger syndrome, very lacking. I know from first-hand experience. And I don’t think Europe is perfect, but at least it is miles ahead of Japan.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:42:52):

And yeah, in my situation, literally, I have to find people and pay them extra to fill the gaps in the service so I get enough help for my son, otherwise I wouldn’t be able to work properly. And it is frustrating. It is what it is, but that is part of the reason why I’m moving. He’s due to finish elementary school. The teachers at his school were great, but the system wasn’t great. So given the effort the teachers made, I felt, “Well, let’s let him finish, and then before he goes to junior high, I think Europe would be best.” But yeah, it’s not easy. And probably online is the best way to try to find contacts and find people in a similar situation.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:43:31):

Another example I had in mind was ... this is a kind of technique I used recently. But when you have a kind of area like special needs or some kind of area you don’t know much about, and you want to find people who are expert, I can imagine doing things like this. So you go on Amazon Japan. We all use Amazon, and Amazon Japan, I use it on an almost daily basis. I even have the president as a Facebook friend. But anyway, so special needs Japan. I might type in like, “Special needs Japan,” in Japanese into Amazon. And you’re going to get some books come up with expert authors who have written in Japanese about it.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:44:07):

Now on a different topic, I did this technique but where I typed in an area I wasn’t really conversant in, but I wanted to research this topic. And I did it on Amazon, and I found some people who were expert in that area. And then I found the same people on LinkedIn. I think you and I got to know each other on LinkedIn. I find Japanese people don’t really use LinkedIn, but I think it’s really powerful. So the ones that do use LinkedIn tend to be the influential ones, the ones who are really kind of international. For example, it could be a popular author or something. They’ll probably have some kind of presence on LinkedIn.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:44:37):

So my way would be, for example, to find some top people who’ve written books in Japan. Find these people on LinkedIn if you’re on it. Try to contact them. They probably would be very happy to hear from you because most people wouldn’t bother. And my approach, in a way, is always trying to go outside the box. And that’s one way. Yeah, there’s lots of anecdotes that I could share there. But I tend to do that. I tend to write to people at the very top because I feel that that’s where you get the main results.

Lydia Beukelman (Interviewer) (00:45:04):

Right. That’s a very interesting point about LinkedIn is I’ve said multiple times that there aren’t very many overall Japanese people on LinkedIn. But the Japanese people who are on LinkedIn are usually, like you said, very influential and very internationally minded and are likely to be more international because it’s not an inherently Japanese thing. So I think that’s a great thing to look out for. It’s a great resource to use if you’re trying to make things happen.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:45:32):

Yeah. I’ve told students before ... even students, and they think “I’m a student. What am I doing here?” But I said, “You don’t have to be a businessman. You have blue ocean here. You’re a Japanese person. You put your stuff out in English which I can help with,” because I like to encourage people. And there was one of my friends who was doing a project on South Sudan for her thesis. And I gave the same idea to her. And I said, “You try that. You type in South Sudan and Amazon, and you find the guy on LinkedIn, and you message him.” And it worked. One of the guys was a 30-year correspondent there. And he actually said he’d be happy to answer questions.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:46:06):

It’s funny. It doesn’t always work, but I think these things ... It’s not a normal approach, but that’s my kind of brain, I think. I’m always a bit like edgy and maverick-like, and that kind of approach serves you well sometimes, I think. Because there’s so many people now that are doing everything that if you try and do what everyone else is doing, you sink without trace. You have to do things differently.

Lydia Beukelman (Interviewer) (00:46:29):

Right. I’m reading a book called Making It Big in Japan right now. And one of the points that was just covered is you obviously should do your best to respect Japanese culture, to abide by rules. But you also can’t play the game. You can’t go in thinking that you’re going to play the game because the game wasn’t set up for you. You have to figure out what works best for you, what’s your competitive advantage in the context, rather than, “ Oh, I’ll just be a Japanese person,” because you’ll never be a Japanese person.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:47:05):

I think exactly – I’ve made that point many times. But recently on YouTube, there’s this kind of boom of people who try to speak perfect Japanese, even accent coaching. And they go to incredible lengths. They probably watch five or six hours of YouTube a day. And they try to hone their Japanese perfectly. And I don’t think this is a great benchmark because, as you said, it ends up being not about language at all. My Japanese could be ten times better than now. It doesn’t matter. The fact that even I have a foreign name is enough for me to get a different reaction. You and I probably know that. So don’t try and be Japanese because it’s about as useful as a chocolate fireguard. It’s not going to work. Your energy and your thoughts would be much better used acknowledging your status, speaking Japanese to a good level. It doesn’t have to be perfect. A good level is enough.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:47:52):

And maybe instead of trying to be Japanese, I would say, show the Japanese you interact with that you understand their culture and respect it. But you don’t necessarily ... for example, tatemae and hon’ne, which is always a bugbear for me. So tatemae, saying things and portraying what you think the listener wants to hear very, very simplistically. And hon’ne is the real ... when you’re having drinks with your friends, the real thing that comes out. The inside and the outside, the public face and the real thoughts. So very simply, you could show Japanese people you know that and they kind of treat you a bit differently, I think. If you have an interaction with Japanese people and you say, “I know you’re being nice to me because it’s kind of expected, but would you like to really stay in touch?” It sounds clumsy, but if you do it in the right way, that kind of thing could work.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:48:40):

I’ve had that situation before because they always try to be nice at first meeting... When you’re new in Japan, you think, “Oh, they all love me. They all want to be my friend and they all want to be my Facebook friend,” and everything. And it’s not that big a deal for them. But for Western people, it’s like we would only make that kind of effort if we really want to be friends with someone in our culture. Otherwise, we’d be polite but not effusive. But in Japan, sometimes they go to that effusive level and you think, “Oh, Japan is the friendliest country in the world.” No it’s not. It has the best service by some criteria. They’re efficient, they smile, because it’s kind of expected and it’s like a DNA thing. But it doesn’t mean they have a heartfelt wish to be your friend. And that’s a very simple difference, but it’s a very difficult one to get. And there are times even now when I feel like, “Oh, my radar wasn’t working. That person went through the radar and I actually thought they were solid and they’re not.”

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:49:38):

But that’s a key point, I think. Succeeding in Japan, learning to read the room, read people, there’s not a quick fix I can say. But that is a really crucial skill to getting ahead in Japan, I think, is the ability to see the situation, to remain on top of the situation, and to remain polite. But also, I don’t know, show them that you know what’s happening. I think it’s important, yeah.

Lydia Beukelman (Interviewer) (00:50:01):

So then we talked a lot about coping on more of an everyday level, everyday life level. But going back to more career-focused issues, in your opinion, what tends to make a company more family or woman-friendly in Japan?

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:50:20):

Well, overall, I can’t say that it’s a country of family- or woman-friendly workplaces in most cases. Some Japanese companies have a lot of overseas interests and branches and the more they have that, the more likely they are to be international in terms of family-friendly policies, because they feel they have to be. They have shareholders overseas. I worked with a company called Recruit. Now Recruit is a big HR company and they’re quite progressive. They started in Tokyo, but they’re in the top 10 HR companies in the world. Another big HR company is Pasona. It just so happens they are recruitment companies. It could be from another industry. But they have things like a creche in the office, or they have schemes to encourage women to go back after having a baby, which seems very normal to us, but in Japan, it’s very rare. And I think that the more international the company gets, the more it has to bend in that way. And in a way, the more Japanese a company, the less likely it is to have that kind of family-friendly policy, because the people making decisions may not have been overseas. Or there isn’t the same pressure. There isn’t the same pressure to bend. I mean if you’re working for IKEA, Japan, for example. IKEA is this huge international company from Sweden. And Sweden is famous for being family friendly. I’m quite sure that they would give generous leave policies and be family friendly. But yeah, I think you’d have to research that. And in a way, I suppose the ideal would be to talk to people who’ve worked there.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:51:51):

I suppose, social media in a way, I don’t know how you’d do it, but the ideal would be to talk to someone who knows that company. I suppose, on LinkedIn. Going back to LinkedIn. You can find people who have worked in a company before. And one way would be - if you’re thinking about a company, you could talk to them about it. I think that might be a way of getting information from the horse’s mouth. I can imagine that would be one way to get some insight into it.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:52:13):

Or if you were in a big group for families in Japan, like a Facebook group or something, you could ask people. Just private message them if necessary. Like - can anyone give me examples of companies they know who are family friendly? And I think, foreigners would be more likely to give honest views on that one. They would be some ideas that just come off to me off the cuff. Yeah.

Lydia Beukelman (Interviewer) (00:52:32):

Yeah. I think that’s great advice to not be afraid to reach out to people to ask them what the situation is. Because my first impulse is usually to try to do research, but you can only find so much information publicly posted online. Probably a lot more effective to speak with actual alumni of the company to figure out what’s going on, for sure.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:52:53):

I think if you find the right person, there’s no reason why they wouldn’t give you an honest answer. Because these things are not confidential in a way. It’s just every company’s different. But it is definitely worthwhile, if you were thinking of moving and you had a family and you were worried about what could happen, that would be my approach.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:53:09):

What I said to you actually, I didn’t have planned in my head. It just came. That’s the kind of thing, I think spontaneously and they were the ideas that just came into my head. But if it’s useful, it’s great. Yeah. Yeah.

Lydia Beukelman (Interviewer) (00:53:19):

For sure.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:53:20):

I mean, one more idea, just, sorry, briefly, would be, I’ve done this sometimes. Literally if you go to Google or something, you type in family association, Japan, even keywords like that, you’ll get some kind of organization. It might not be a huge one, but you’ll get some kind of NGO or some kind of organization set up because they have some for any purpose. They have them for everything you can think of. There’s some kind of organization and you could contact them and you get some feedback. I think that kind of thing as well. That would be one approach I would think of.

Lydia Beukelman (Interviewer) (00:53:51):

I think that’s another great resource. So yeah, don’t be afraid to get creative in trying to scope out the situation. Definitely. So we’ve talked quite a bit about this already, but do any other examples come to mind of communication breakdowns in Japan that are due to culture?

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:54:08):

I think the key thing to realize is that people who, like I said, are really concerned about speaking Japanese better. There comes a point where it doesn’t matter if you speak well or extremely well, you’re not going to get a better response unless you tune into the culture.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:54:23):

So your energies and your time would be better spent learning culture and language. I don’t mean to say that... I think you know the point I’m making. There comes a point where you can make yourself understood in any situation. And if you go from there to obsessing about having an accent. I never think it’s a problem to be honest, to have a little bit of accent. I know I have more than a little bit of accent in Japanese when I speak.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:54:43):

But I never worried about that because more important than that is tuning into the culture, the body language and the unspoken, what the Japanese person is telling you with their gestures and what their actions and the real message they say verbally and even what they don’t say. That is a very crucial difference. And learning to read that will make your life much easier, much more than language alone.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:55:03):

Language is the first big thing. But after language, the cultural thing is even bigger. And it affects everything in society here. Even online chat. You can get a sense of it. The typical example here would be, “Sounds good.” Japanese will often say, “Sounds good.” You suggest a social encounter. They say, “Sounds good.” And if you’re not tuned in, you think, “Oh, I think they’re up for it. They’re up for it.” But actually it’s a no. “Sounds good,” is 99.9% no.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:55:35):

It’s not quite anything other than yes is no, but it’s close to that. It’s close to that. And again, to get a yes - you don’t always get a yes anyway - but I think the way I would do it, if I really wanted a yes in that situation, I’d say like, “I know X and Y and Z. And I know you normally say this and you mean this, but is something possible?” It’s like acknowledging you know the situation; you know why they’re doing that. It’s a bit complex, but you do see what I mean.

Lydia Beukelman (Interviewer) (00:56:07):

Yeah. I definitely do see what you mean. Especially with YouTube polyglot influencers, there is a big focus on perfectionism that I feel like is honestly a waste of time.

Lydia Beukelman (Interviewer) (00:56:22):

There’s so much more you can learn with that time about Japan, about Japanese people. Or even just taking that time you’re spending perfecting your pitch accent and developing a new vocabulary set. Obviously, you should have good pronunciation. But again, taking that to that extra step to try to literally sound like a Japanese person, that energy could be better spent elsewhere.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:56:46):

I couldn’t agree more. I don’t even think the Japanese watching those videos are that impressed. They may think... I’m sorry to say, but it’s almost like a performing seal. It’s like a performing seal who flips a ball on his nose 10 times. They think it’s very entertaining. They don’t have huge respect. They don’t. Those posting may get some comments. But there’s maybe some acknowledgement that it’s almost like a native Japanese. If you don’t look at the screen, you would think it was a native Japanese.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:57:09):

But in terms of the everyday day-to-day interaction, that’s not going to get you much further in Japan. No, it’s not. It may get you some bonus points and you’re going to impress some people. But in the bigger picture, yeah, as you said, there are much better ways to use your time and energy. That’s a really good point, I would say. I’d like to drum that point home.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:57:30):

I remember back to my French class in university. I speak French. Amazingly actually, my French and German have stayed intact after over 20 years, which I was really happy with. They are not perfect, but I would say, they are three-quarters still there. But I was learning French in the UK. And there were people in the French class who, with every sentence they spoke, they would exaggerate with an “Euurrghhh,” hesitation, supposedly like French people do. And the hand movements, and it was totally exaggerated. And it was silly. It was like pantomime.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:57:55):

And there are people in Japan who do that as well. They bow all the time and they say etto… and desu keredomo… all the time. And they hesitate. And it’s like a caricature. Why are you trying so hard? Or what’s this doing? You might get a few more views on YouTube, but you see what I mean? It doesn’t really have an end product.

Lydia Beukelman (Interviewer) (00:58:12):

Which is fine if it’s for you. You can do that because it makes you happy to reach this goal of actually sounding like a Japanese person. But don’t expect that to extend to somehow becoming the ultimate Japanese speaker. You have to manage your expectations of what perfecting your Japanese will actually accomplish.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:58:32):

Yeah. To sum up another brutally inconvenient truth, it’s not going to open a lot of doors for you. I mean, it might get you more views. It’s going to get you more views on YouTube and a few more likes on social media, but don’t think it’s going to open a lot of doors for you. No, it’s not.

Lydia Beukelman (Interviewer) (00:58:45):

Then, besides that, besides the not spending all of your time trying to master Japanese or become Japanese somehow. If you were speaking with somebody who wanted to go to Japan for business, who maybe knew absolutely nothing about Japan or its culture, and you only had time to teach them one thing about it, what would you teach them?

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:59:06):

In a Japanese business context, Japanese like subtlety. They like to be surprised, but not in a shocking way, in a subtle way. So if it weren’t COVID, let’s assume there’s no COVID because it wouldn’t happen if there’s COVID. So no COVID. And I’m in Seattle or something. Okay, for example, I live in Seattle and travelling to Kobe, where I live now. And Seattle happened to be the sister city.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (00:59:28):

So, I would research a lot about Kobe City and its history, but also probably social media. I’d look at the company I was visiting and even funny things about Japan, for example, sports. I mean, Japanese people used to laugh at me when I say Mount Fuji is 3,776 meters high. Stays in my head. They all learn it in high school but many of them forget. Or, I mean, funny questions, like what is the largest prefecture by area, after Hokkaidō? The answer is Iwate. These are trivial things, but they don’t expect foreigners to know, and it makes them laugh.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (01:00:00):

And I think, at the end of the day, we’re all emotionally driven and humor is universal in some way. So, if you can put these little nuggets in. Obviously, you may not be able to speak Japanese, but if you can put these little snippets in, I think it would make a big difference. And because Japan is so homogenous, it’s designed for Japanese people, like a hand in a glove.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (01:00:24):

So yeah, maybe that’s a bit honest but flattery works. I mean, Japanese people like to hear things which are positive about Japan. So not excessively clichéd, like the toilets are amazing here, or the trains are amazing. But in a business context, for example, Japan is promoting hydrogen and that’s a really big policy. And it’s a quite interesting policy. Japan is promoting hydrogen power in cars, for example.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (01:00:52):

I would probably look on Google News and look at the latest things happening in Japan. And if it’s a really big thing, mention it, and they’ll be impressed that you know that. I mean, if it were a normal year, you’d say Olympics, but the Olympics is not really happening.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (01:01:04):

But if it was now and the Olympics were going on as normal, although I don’t think it will happen, to be honest. But anyway, that’s another topic. I would probably research Japanese athletes and say in conversation, “Oh, Japan has the Olympics. And by the way, isn’t this athlete really famous?” And they love that. I think they would lap that up.

Lydia Beukelman (Interviewer) (01:01:21):

Yeah. Maybe right now isn’t the best time to bring up the Olympics in casual conversation. But yeah, I understand what you mean by signaling your respect and appreciation for Japan through your knowledge of Japan. That’s one reason why Japanese people are sometimes very flattered when you can speak any amount of Japanese. Hence the Nihongo joozu, even if you just say konnichiwa but yeah, you can do that with cultural knowledge of Japan as well. I think that’s great.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (01:01:52):

I mean, one example I do, this may not be a business context, but it’s a good ice breaker. When I’m talking to someone new, they always ask, “Why did you come to Japan?” And there’s the YouTube clip of the program I saw. Remember I mentioned to you that Japanese language and people. Now, thanks to YouTube, there are clips of it still online.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (01:02:09):

And there’s one which I really like about a guy called Alan Booth who walked through Japan. He walked literally from Hokkaido to Kagoshima. And there’s 12 minutes of him walking through Aomori prefecture and staying in a ryokan. And his Japanese is obviously perfect. And he talks to the countryside people in perfect Japanese. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUO7EYtmTOw)

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (01:02:25):

He goes to an aka chochin red lantern bar in Shinjuku and it’s fascinating. It’s like, he went out of his way to live in the country and to meet Japanese people. And that would be a fantastic icebreaker. That would be a 10-minute way to show them that you like Japan and you found this video insightful. And they would love that. I think that would be one good idea to use. Take a five or 10-minute clip on YouTube, watch what you like and maybe show them. They’d love that.

Lydia Beukelman (Interviewer) (01:02:54):

Is there anything else you would like to share with the audience today before we wrap things up?

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (01:02:59):

I’m really happy to have this chance. It’s been a really interesting chat and I think we’ve gone a bit more than an hour. So thank you for being so patient. And like I said, these talks just they go on by themselves. I didn’t really have a script in mind, but I knew it would flow and it did flow pretty well.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (01:03:14):

I think I let off some steam, but I’ll finish on a positive note because I have to be fair. I’ve had some great times in Japan. One of the things I tell people is my favorite prefecture. My favorite prefecture is Nagano. I love Nagano prefecture. I never lived there, but I visited many times, especially when I was in Tokyo. It’s one hour away on Nagano Shinkansen. And I think I’ve been to every prefecture except three. No real reason. But most of Japan I’ve covered. Five times each to Hokkaido and Okinawa and so on.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (01:03:43):

Why do I love Nagano? I love the mountains. The Japanese Alps are beautiful. The food is great. Famous for apples, famous for vegetables. It has amazing countryside. John Lennon used to visit in the 70s. John Lennon used to visit Nagano with Yoko Ono and stay there.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (01:03:58):

And I’ve stayed in the same hotel where he used to stay. And I’ve actually talked to the barman who served him. And I love these anecdotes and stuff. He loved Japan. And I can feel a little bit of it when I read about him and his time in Japan. It wasn’t the same as me, of course, but something resonates a bit in there. You get a warm, fuzzy feeling in there.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (01:04:19):

When I sit in the cafe of that hotel and have the same tea that he used to drink, I feel like, oh, it’s a nice feeling. So yeah, Nagano for me is the top, but Kobe’s not bad. And Tokyo was living the dream. So, those few places are definitely special for me.

Lydia Beukelman (Interviewer) (01:04:31):

If you go to Japan, definitely do what you can to get out of whatever prefecture you happen to be in because there’s just so much to see and every place has its own special attributes.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (01:04:41):

The very last point, Kamikochi. I forgot to mention that Kamikochi in Nagano, is K-A-M-I-K-O-C-H-I, Kamikochi, is literally one of those beautiful places in Japan. Cars cannot go into it. It’s like Canada in a way. It’s unspoiled nature. The rivers, you can see the water clear to the bottom. And that really stands out as a place that if you’re visiting Japan and want to see natural beauty, that would be close to the top of the list. So, yeah.

Lydia Beukelman (Interviewer) (01:05:06):

Yeah, I think that’s great advice for people who are maybe planning their future trips to Japan, post-COVID.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (01:05:13):

Yeah. Thank you.

Lydia Beukelman (Interviewer) (01:05:14):

No, thank you so much for your time.

Richard Mort (Interviewee) (01:05:17):

It’s been a pleasure. Thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate it.

Lydia Beukelman (Interviewer) (01:05:20):

I hope that you enjoyed today’s conversation and be sure to check out the links in the description of this episode to learn more about Richard Mort and his activities. And be sure to follow him on LinkedIn as well. If you enjoyed today’s episode, please go ahead and share it with a friend, colleague, or connection on LinkedIn to help spread the message and information shared in this podcast.

Lydia Beukelman (Interviewer) (01:05:38):

And please remember to go ahead and subscribe and leave a rating and review if you enjoyed the podcast. And feel free to email me at [email protected], all one word, all lowercase. If you have any other questions, comments, or suggestions for future episodes or interview topics.

Lydia Beukelman (Interviewer) (01:05:53):

Also, be sure to reach out if you would like to contribute as a guest on the podcast to share your own cultural insights into doing business in Japan. If you’d like to leave a voice message, you can find a link to do so in the description as well. But for now, remember that the more you learn, the more confident you will become as you explore all of the opportunities Japan has to offer you. Until next time.