Recapping 20 Episodes of RTL The Podcast (Part 1)

Hello, hello, hello!?

Think of this article as the Executive Summary for RTL The Podcast and this episode (live now on Spotify and Apple Podcasts) as Cliff Notes. I share 10/20 career lessons learned in the past 20 episodes (stay tuned for part 2!).

I hope you enjoy, and it helps open your eyes to the limitless possibilities as to where your legal career may take you.?

Your host,?

Rose Inglis xxx

1. Even the tallest poppies in our legal profession experience imposter syndrome.?

These "syndromes" are SO pervasive in the Australian legal ecosystem. From the outset, I wanted to explore these topics in more detail. So, I invited a selection of the tallest of the tall poppies from our profession - leaders in their organizations, thought leaders with strong influence in their respective parts of the legal ecosystem, award winners - to talk about how they dealt with it behind the scenes.?

So grateful to Theo Kapodistrias , Mel Scott , Mollie Tregillis , James d'Apice , Sarah OUIS and Erika Pagano for sharing so candidly.

2. An excellent legal career does not necessarily start with law firm experience.?

Eeek! The gatekeepers are going to hate this piece of advice. But trust me, it is true. In many cases a successful legal career will commence in a law firm, but in many cases it will not. And that is so fine.

This is particularly true for those who follow an alternative path, for example, in human rights ( Robyn Barnard ), starting and then leading a legal tech startup ( Noel Lim ) or in an aligned role in legal communications ( Kim Koelmeyer ) or love the in-house legal life! ( Theo Kapodistrias ).

In fact, pursuing roles in diverse areas of the legal ecosystem is actually preferable for many people, as such roles are more aligned with their unique goals and interests.?

3. Sometimes things do not go according to your plan… sometimes they turn out even better than you imagined!?

As you now know, I am passionate about exploring the pivot points in career development as this is where the biggest challenges and capacity for growth lies. In fact, if you told year 12 Robyn + Rose that our careers and lives would have turned out the way they had, we probably would not have believed you - living and working overseas, marrying awesome partners, pursuing our passions, doing it all on our own terms and in our own time.??

I loved the conversation I had with Perpetua Kish in Episode 15 where she shared that her main passion in life was actually acting, that she had tried and failed to become a professional actor, so her whole legal career was her plan B. But she was now nonetheless at peace with this and enjoying a fulfilling career and life.?

4. Your dream job may not live up to your expectations.?

This is such a tough lesson to learn. If you do ever find yourself in this situation, please know that you are not alone.?

In episode 2 I had a very honest conversation with the gorgeous Rachel Waters, whose career journey is nothing short of fascinating. In fact, her experience really fueled my fire to get RTL going.?

Long story short, Rachel in Episode 2 achieved her dream of becoming a criminal law barrister by her late twenties, however she quickly realised that the working style and lifestyle was not aligned with what she actually wanted. And how she negotiated the next stages of her career was nothing short of inspiring and brave.?This is a must listen.

5. The early stages of your career are an excellent time to experiment with different areas of law, roles, jurisdictions and workplaces, and challenge yourself outside of your comfort zone.?

The conventional legal career wisdom is that early on you should find an area of law that you enjoy and are good at, then specialise. And this was the case for many guests. For example, Rachel with Criminal Law; Jacqueline Butler (episode 3) and Maddison Harrington (episode 9) both with employment law; Caralee Fontenele (episode 6) with family law; James d'Apice (episode 14) with corporate law and Robyn Barnard (episode 1) with human rights law.

However ... for Cristabel Gekas (episode 5), Mollie Tregillis (episode 8), Anne Wong (episode 4), Erika Pagano (episode 12), and myself (episodes 7 and 11), it all took us much longer to carve out our unique place in our profession. Both paths work well.

6. There are much better questions to ask yourself other than “Is this my dream job?”?

IMHO “is this my dream job?” is as terrible a question to ask yourself as is “am I passionate about my job?” The answer, especially in the early stages of your legal career, will probably be no. You must be extremely fortunate to land on your feet in your first role in your ideal area of law straight up, and it will likely take you some time to work it out.?

Better questions to ask yourself include: Am I learning and growing? Am I in a supportive team? Am I paid fairly? Am I safe and respected? Do I enjoy the work? Am I proud of my work? Do I have career progression? Am I excited by that career progression? Am I developing a useful, diverse skill set??

7. Change is hard. And worth it.???

What do Jacqueline Butler , Mollie Tregillis and my career journeys all have in common? We all took “stepping stone” roles to get to where we were meant to be. Some roles will not be our end games, or dream jobs, or light us up with passion and inspiration, but they will help lead us to where we are meant to be.?

8. Seasonal clerkships are not the only way to kickstart a successful legal career.?

The penultimate and final years of your law degree can become such an echo chamber where clerkships and graduate pathways dominate the career discussions, it was really important to me to provide a complementary perspective via this podcast.?

Cristabel Gekas Kim Koelmeyer and Mel Scott all missed out on legal clerkships and graduate roles. And look at where they are now!?

Setbacks form part of your unique career trajectory, and where one door closes another one opens. I promise.?

9. You create your own luck. ?

Episode 4 with Anne Wong is one of my most popular for good reason.What Anne has managed to achieve within her first 5 years of practice is incredible.

After she qualified to practice, she quickly realised she was more interested in the “how” we practice law, and thus made the swift mode into legal operations - a rapidly evolving area of legal practice. In our episode she talks about becoming a first generation lawyer, her struggle with relinquishing her “lawyer” title, and how she has traversed from strength to strength. (Currently to NRF as Innovation Lead in London, UK!)

10. Investment in yourself brings the best returns.?

This message was particularly relevant for the legal entrepreneurs I interviewed. Indeed it was the title for my honest conversation with Sarah OUIS (episode 17) on how and why she started her legal design and personal branding studio, Law But How? ?

This was also a key takeaway from episode 6 with Caralee Fontenele , whose career trajectory is nothing short of bloody incredible and inspiring. She studied law later in life, after receiving the raw end of a divorce settlement. She then went straight from working in the law firm, to owning the law firm, and her first hire was a principal solicitor to supervise her. Such an incredible boss move.?

How did these two amazing women step up to lead, learn how to run a profitable and sustainable businesses, nail business development and everything else? They both invested heavily in upskilling, coaching and networking so that they could grow into the leaders they want to be.

Episode 20 recapping 20 lessons from 20 episodes is live now. I would be SO grateful if you would please:

1. Follow and rate me 5 stars on Spotify, and/or
2. Subscribe, then provide 5 stars and a short review on Apple Podcasts.

1 year into this project, just last night, I discovered how the charts work. I realised that my niche podcast with a gorgeous "small but engaged" (and growing!) audience once charted #7 in the Career charts in Australia! WTAF?! I think it is these small things that help.

Rose Tinted Law is now more than my passion project, it is my bread and butter. And I so appreciate any and all support xxxx