Q&A with Mia Chowdry - on the place of D&I in professional training

Mia, how do you define yourself today and how did you come to integrate D&I into your work?

Interesting question because it is constantly changing! At the moment, I would say I’m more ambitious and passion-driven, both professionally and on a personal level.  But this continuously changes each year or even day. 

Integrating D&I was a  gradual evolution; there wasn't any a-ha moment. My life experiences drew me towards it. My background in Psychology and Sociology encouraged me to dig deeper into how people work, how they operate in collectives and how these interactions can have an impact on a societal level. Why did that person react a certain way? Why this approach and not another one?  When you understand more about human behavior, you can be more empathetic towards people's actions, whether you agree with them or not. 

In the last couple of years, along with what’s unfolding within society, D&I work seems to have picked up more traction and I gained so much more understanding of what that complex work entails. I thought it would be more fulfilling to integrate this into my work, given that what I do is closely related to D&I at times. 

So what is it that you do on a day-to-day basis and how does that relate to D&I? 

The Learning and Development department I work for at BCG is in charge of designing e-learning experiences, setting up training and running workshops for all employees to continue growing.  This depends on what colleagues need and their tasks but these workshops can be directly linked to diversity and inclusion, like unconscious bias or empathy training. It could also be workshops geared towards improving technical skills like designing and holding presentations, for example.

D&I has been the core topic of some training sessions,  but it is also a thread throughout all the training sessions as we want everyone to feel that the chosen training is catered for them. 

Interesting, let's unpack that a little bit. How do you encourage D&I to be a paradigm throughout the Learning and Development experience? 

We design training but often need to find external facilitators for them. It is crucial that we brief those facilitators in understanding they'll be in a room filled with people from different backgrounds. This awareness applies no matter the type or what is the content of the training. It is a way to ensure that the training you take as an employee does make sense for you. 

We want to avoid colleagues feeling out of their depth because they feel that the facilitator wants them to change who they are or their approach. It is about enhancing individual strengths and working with what they’ve got. 

What is the role of L&D within a business?

L&D should be sparring partners. When someone joins a company, they're already a great talent. But they want to continue to learn and feel like they're gaining something. One of the things I remember when I joined BCGDV is the almost overwhelming amount of available resources. I think it’s vital that businesses offer the resources for self-directed and facilitated learning, such as workshops on design or e-learnings on resilience, for a more blended learning experience. 

How does this experience shape your understanding of D&I? What's your definition today?

My definition of D&I has changed a lot over the years. In my university years, the definition was quite narrow. My experience moving to Germany was a significant factor; I was not German or fluent in the language and found myself entering a predominantly White German and male company at that time, although it is putting more effort into diverse hiring.

I had a simplistic vision of diversity. I went from an image of many different people feeling welcomed in a frictionless melting pot towards a more realistic one. Yes, there are many different people and each person is unique. It is not about having a monolithic culture; it's more about each person contributing to the culture with what they have in them and where they come from. I will continuously add to this vision for sure, along with my experiences and reflections. 

I guess your own story, settling in Germany, adds another layer to your understanding and perhaps helps you empathize with recruits or people moving to Germany (visa processes, for example)...

Yes definitely. When you have a similar experience, it helps to connect. However, I have realized there are many things I can't relate to, which is great because it challenges me! I can tell you about a friend who came from Japan to Texas to Berlin. He told me about the bureaucratic complexities he had to deal with. Because I come from the UK (while it was still in the EU), my arrival was easy compared to his. He also told me many positive elements about his journey, and he is now much more equipped to deal with bureaucratic situations than I probably am. 

How do you think that people outside the L&D department are integrating D&I in their work?

That is probably one of the hardest things. This point relates to essential questions: How do we engage people on this matter without triggering them? How do we expose the disconnect without making them defensive?

You often have two groups of people: the ones who are aware, very keen, and who are typically first in line to sign up for your workshop on D&I, empathy or unconscious bias. On the other hand, you have people who are not keen but think they know the ins and out of the issue. It is that second group that we're trying to ‘crack into.’ There is a sort of resistance mindset: Well, I'm already a good person. I do not need that training.  That is not really the point. It's about actively participating and reviewing everyday small actions. Discrimination and biases don't have to be obvious, with rude behaviors or racist remarks. 

It is easy, especially in a fast-paced environment, to get caught up in the thrill of everyday events, like deals and launches. There is a lot of adrenaline and everyone is working towards a common business goal. Along the way, many people are left unheard, feeling disrespected on venture teams or not been listened to. Unconscious bias workshops should be a reminder to check ourselves, take a moment, and then reflect more broadly and be more critical of things even if it feels uncomfortable. 

To support that, one way in which an effective unconscious could be designed is to have scenarios where attendees are engaged in a way that could influence bias from their side, biases that would go unnoticed. Attendees could then spot the bias and finally unpack this together. It can be in emails or in-person interactions. We hope to show that it is not aimed at extreme non-inclusive or disrespectful people with these real-life examples. It is actually for everyone. Besides, it is nothing to feel ashamed about, as long as we acknowledge it. We can then set up our own alarm system and accept that we’re not perfect at it. 

Do you have a real-life example of accepting our own imperfections? Any typical example you like to showcase?

I do have an anecdote with one colleague based in New York. I think it is a representative example because the Americans are more ahead on this matter than those of us in Berlin, in my opinion. They have people who will call it out and know the country’s history up to the present and the current challenges when it comes to D&I. 

This colleague, who is very clued in this matter, wrote an email addressing the assistant team and addressed them all as women or in a way that didn’t leave rooms for other genders. One of the managing directors replied in a gentle way to tell there are also males on the assistant team. We tend to think that assistants are all female; that is bias in itself and a mistake that anyone can make at any level. 

Talking about Berlin compared to the US, where do you think the scene sits at the moment, and where do you think it is heading? 

The Berlin D&I space is growing because of cultural and societal reasons, which are different from the US. The DV offices in America have many support groups: Black networking support groups and an Asian one with different subgroups within those two. Taking the American methodology or framework and clunking it onto Berlin would not work.  

Berlin is a toddler compared to Silicon Valley, New York or London. We're still in the phase of defining what we want to do and how we can best support our people. This early stage feels very stimulating and so much more accessible! It is potentially easier to inject ideas and set a trajectory right from the beginning. It is an exciting time.

What do you wish for this space to be, where do you do things in the coming years?

I would love it to be more diverse. I assume that more and more people will come into Germany and want to get into the tech space in Berlin. I hope that it doesn't become a carbon copy of other places. Berlin is unique as a city; it has its own laid-back vibe.  I wouldn't want it to lose that trait because this is why people feel like they have freedom and room to grow here.

I also hope more people come into the D&I topic so that we can all uplift the scene in different ways. I wish future startups and future businesses will invest in D&I the same way one would invest in climate change or sustainability projects. It is just as essential. 

I have the feeling there is a tension here, especially for startups, which need to target and focus on profitability. How could early-stage businesses solve that tension? 

I would say invest in the people. They are the ones who will hire other people. Suppose you don't have the time or the money to invest in the existing resources or materials. In that case, your people are your biggest asset and you need to make that a priority within your organization.

It is often overlooked initially, which makes it difficult for interesting talents to join at later stages. It needs to be something foundational. It is a lot easier said than done because, once again, the first step is the willingness to act on it.

What do you think this past year has changed for D&I and how you're approaching work these days? 

2020 was a challenging year for many of us, not only because of the pandemic but also because of the protests, the political demonstrations, and different social events. Working from home and not having our usual interactions anymore... All of these things combined can lead to a sense of alienation or loneliness. For me, D&I is one of the ways to bridge that gap for people.

How do you preserve yourself from burning out?

I really do log off. I have realized that you can't provide your best work or your best self if you are burned out or if your thoughts are scattered everywhere. I know it is difficult, especially with the amount of information and social media we all consume. But good technology hygiene, more meditation, and talking to friends and family is what I found the most restorative. 

Who are your go-to people and your go-to resources?

My mom and my friends because they are also very passionate about this topic, in their own unique way. My friend Charmilla Kasper is also one of my go-to people. She was my manager in the past and has provided a lot of guidance and new angles to consider when it comes to D&I.  We've had some great conversations. One thing I appreciate in discussions is to be challenged. 

In terms of resources, I would recommend From Intent To Impact by Monica Diaz. She analyzed the five dualities of D&I (for example, risk vs. investment) in such an articulate and crisp way! An excellent read for anyone interested in an overview and potential pitfalls of D&I in business.  

Beyond reads, the most crucial and enriching way to learn is by just engaging with others. Connecting with others whenever I can is what inspires me and my work.