The Power of Public-Private Partnerships

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Welcome to the Sustainability Business Podcast, a show featuring conversations shaping the future of energy and sustainability.

Amy Haddon: Solving climate change is a bipartisan issue.

John Powers: How can we work better between private world and public policy?

Haddon: Up until since a few years ago, COP was really seen solely as a policy event

Powers: Industry and corporations are realizing, 'Hey, we're a big part of this problem, but we also want to be part of the solution.'

The Sustainability Business Podcast is produced by Schneider Electric Sustainability Business team.

Emily Austin: Hello. Thank you again for joining me another episode of our podcast series covering the evolving world of ESG reporting and Corporate Climate Action.

We're taking a slightly different approach to the podcast this week and have an exciting lineup of guests joining us to discuss an important topic for many in the climate action and ESG space. We're diving into an aspect of ESG concerning the impact of partnership between public and private entities. Yes, I'm talking about the United Nations Conference of Parties or COP for short, which was celebrated in Egypt in 2022 and has been taking place for 28 years. I was inspired by this event and decided to take a deep dive into the world of COP. I've been learning about its past, what has been achieved so far, what has not been achieved, and also how it might look in the future. Just before we welcome our guests, both of whom have attended COP events in person, let me just run you through a short history of the event. So the very first COP took place in Berlin in 1995, but the global efforts towards sustainability began even earlier at the Rio Earth Summit in 1992, and then later in the creation of the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change in 1994. A year later, the first COP gathered the political leaders, academia and industries to convene on climate change targets.

Some major achievements of these forums so far have been the recognition of the IPCC findings towards climate change in 1996, and that hasn't really stopped, the establishment of the Kyoto Protocol in 1997, the Paris Agreement signed in 2015 and the creation of various different funds such as the Adaptation Fund coined in 2001 and the still-debated Loss and Damage Fund ideated in 2015 and established at the latest COP in 2022. I will jump into these achievements a little bit more further in the discussion. Indeed, these 27 events, the COP gathering has forced countries and industries to face the severe reality of climate change and has created a space for academia, governments, and society to suggest solutions and come to agreements that might slow global warming. Nevertheless, after every event, there remains topics that have been forever discussed or that have been agreed on, but not achieved. My colleagues joining me today who have both seen firsthand the power of public-private collaboration at COP will share with you some insights and recommendations that you as business leaders can take to leverage these significant moments in history to help us all move towards a low carbon future.

Firstly, let's meet our guests. Amy, please can you start by introducing yourself?

Haddon: Thanks, Emily. My name is Amy Haddon. I lead global marketing and communications for the Sustainability Business at Schneider Electric. I've been with Schneider for almost 16 years and covered a wide array of responsibilities in that time, including sustainability consulting, liaising with government relations teams, developing thought leadership in the marketplace, and then my current role, which is responsible for ensuring that we deliver on the objectives of our business and that we communicate clearly with our clients around the world.

Austin: Amazing. Thank you, Amy. John, please can you say hello to guests?

Powers: Yeah, thanks for having me. John Powers, I'm our Vice President of Global Renewable Energy and Carbon Advisory within the Sustainability Business at Schneider Electric. So I am coming up on my 20th anniversary at Schneider, and the group that I lead helps advise corporate clients primarily on corporate, industrial, institutional, on how they can achieve, how they can set and achieve renewable energy and carbon reduction targets.

Austin: So, nice to and everything. It's lovely to have you, and congratulations on your 20th anniversary upcoming.

Powers: <laugh>. Thanks.

Austin: So, as I mentioned earlier, both John and Amy have represented Schneider Electric at recent COP gatherings. I was wondering if you both could give me a quick summary of your experiences at the COP events that you've been to. Um, so let's start with Amy. Which COP did you attend, and what was your mission in attending that COP?

Haddon: Thanks, Emily. I was able to go to COP 26, which was held in Glasgow, Scotland at the end of 2021. Um, it was a really once in a lifetime experience, I think, and I say that in full knowledge that we have many colleagues that attend COP year after year. I was able to attend for the full two plus weeks of the event, which was quite an experience for my first COP. I was there in part because it was the fifth year anniversary of the Paris Agreement. If you're doing the math, we had to skip a year because of the pandemic, so it was six chronological years, but five years in total for the Conference of Parties. I was also there to represent Schneider Electric's government relations team and our Sustainability Business, and I had the opportunity to participate in many events inside of the Blue Zone, which is where a lot of the actual negotiation of the COP takes place, and also had the opportunity to participate in activities outside of the Blue Zone in what's called the Green Zone, where many organizations, especially private organizations, are able to use the event as an opportunity to convene their own guests, their own content, et cetera. It was a really powerful, extensive, tiring, extraordinary experience that I had being in Glasgow. There was a lot of political action taking place at that time. And there were some really powerful outputs of that COP. Probably a high point for me as part of the US delegation there was being able to participate in several events with Secretary John Kerry as well as to meet several of the governors from the US as well as Congress people from the US Congress delegation that were at the event.

Austin: It sounds like you really had an amazing time there, especially being able to go and meet with the government officials and kind of listening to the decisions that they were they were making.

Haddon: That was a highlight for me for sure, of the event. There was representation also from more conservative political parties, really reaching across the aisle to understand that solving climate change is a bipartisan issue, and I was able to meet many of those attendees and, have some really, I think, healthy conversations about the role of government and the fact that we share values when it comes to climate change, regardless of your political affiliation. We all want to live in a world with clean air, protected natural resources, and strong economy.

...we share values when it comes to climate change, regardless of your political affiliation. We all want to live in a world with clean air, protected natural resources, and strong economy.

Austin: Absolutely, completely vital. Amazing to see as well people coming together from no matter what political beliefs to join in on this collective global struggle. John if I could pass it over to you. Which COP did you attend and what was your mission in attending?

Powers: Yeah, so I was at this past COP 27 in Sharm El Sheikh Egypt, and it was my first COP attending. I didn't quite have the full two week experience that Amy had. It was pretty full on in the five days I was there, but was really focused around some of the climate change and action and, really, in support of some of our clients as well, and some of the programs that we're helping clients run globally. I was representing the Sustainability Business and some of the partnerships we have, one of which is the Energize program with many of the world's largest pharmaceutical companies. We are working with them to engage their collective supply chain on climate action, starting with renewable energy solutions, but really with an ambition to expand beyond that and really figure out how does the pharmaceutical industry collectively look at their supply chain to reduce carbon.

So this is a program that we announced at COP 26, that Amy was in attendance with, and then we were announcing progress at COP 27. That was one of the primary reasons, and then had a chance to meet with a number of executives and leaders at other clients and companies. So what was really my focus was on the private sector partnerships that we have to reduce climate change. But what was really interesting and what struck me about being at the event, I also had access in the Blue Zone where all of the delegates and representatives from different governments around the world were in attendance. I attended many of the different events and it got me thinking, how can we work better between the private world and public policy as well as the NGO community?

I attended many of the different events and it got me thinking, how can we work better between the private world and public policy as well as the NGO community?

So we joined a number of talks and panels, et cetera, with organized by some of the NGO community, and it, it got me thinking, can we be doing more to insert the role of the private world into the policymaking landscape to ensure that, you know, because many of our private companies are really striving to make an impact on climate change in many cases faster than the governments are moving. And so how can we carve out a role for that sort of, push and that sort of action within the policies that are being created? And then what is the role for some of the NGOs to aggregate some industries aggregate demand from within the private sector, and also help influence that policy discussion and drive action by, by aggregating different different actors. So yeah, it, it was very interesting as someone who's more focused day-to-day on private sector action to reduce impacts of climate change, to think more broadly about how that could connect with public policy as well as the NGO community.

Haddon: You know, something I think is really interesting about what you just said, John, is that up until just a few years ago, COP was really seen solely as a policy event, right? I would say the Paris meeting was perhaps the first time where the corporate sector was really represented in force, and it's very interesting to see how it is evolving to become much more a joint affair of policymakers, NGOs, and the private sector. It's, it's a very different event now, I think, than it was just a few years ago.

It's been interesting. In the past several years, we've seen really widespread adoption of measures of goals, stringent goals in the private sector and, and measures to implement climate change solutions where industry and corporations are realizing, hey, we're a big part of this problem, but we also want to be part of the solution and are, are stepping more, stepping up more than they ever have before and starting to think how can we make a difference? And the intersection with policy is certainly one of those places.

Austin: Incredible. You mentioned a lot about the public-private collaboration and being involved more in policy within the private sector. Can you give us some examples of where the private sector can step in and help collaborate with the public sector to initiate this policy?

Powers: Sure. Maybe I can take a first pass and then pass it to you, Amy, if that works. I think, you know, where our part of the Sustainability Business is focused in the renewables and carbon advisory obviously is, is pretty zeroed in on renewable energy policy. And so within that realm, we see quite a few government incentives and policies rolling out across the world to try to drive the faster adoption of renewable energy. And we've seen examples of those that bring along the private sector and private actors and examples that really don't as much. And so, there's an interesting dynamic where many of the forward-thinking corporations in the world are looking to go 100% renewable energy or net-zero far faster on a far faster timeline, including Schneider Electric ourselves on a far faster timeline than the many or any of the world governments are, are willing to commit to and go.

...many of the forward-thinking corporations in the world are looking to go 100% renewable energy or net-zero far faster on a far faster timeline, including Schneider Electric ourselves on a far faster timeline than the many or any of the world governments are, are willing to commit to and go.

And so I think in the renewable energy policy, I'll give you an example: The feed and tariff system historically in Germany has, if a, if a renewable energy developer wanted to participate in the feed and tariff, they could not also get a power purchase agreement with a corporation where that corporation could claim the carbon reductions. And so what that has effectively done is had renewable energy projects choose one or the other — the government incentive or the corporate demand. I think we can do a better job of effectively designing systems where the government pushes and drives forward renewable energy as fast as politically possible, while also leaving the door open for actors who want to move faster.

I think we can do a better job of effectively designing systems where the government pushes and drives forward renewable energy as fast as politically possible, while also leaving the door open for actors who want to move faster.

Haddon: I think that's really well said, John. And it, it's interesting to take a look at the legislative landscape globally over the last few years. You know, corporations have really worked at a voluntary level when it comes to sustainability and renewables for a long, long time. And they still are doing that. It's very unusual to see legislation in place that mandates a move towards decarbonization, for instance. But that has really changed in the last few years. Interestingly, I do think part of that was born off the back of the pandemic, as a lot of the global recovery efforts from the pandemic were tied to sustainability. We see that in the EU green taxonomy. We see that in some of the recovery efforts here in the US. So it's, it's quite interesting. I think that that was a moment where we realized how disruptive the pandemic was and that there was an opportunity to build back better.

I think that that was a moment where we realized how disruptive the pandemic was and that there was an opportunity to build back better.

That was a slogan that was used here in the US by the Biden administration. What is also interesting to me has been to see the rise of corporate players becoming more engaged in the political landscape than I think we've seen historically. Certainly, of course, organizations have long had government affairs teams working collectively with government to try to create circumstances favorable for their business. But I would say until the last few years, sustainability was not one of those things that organizations were really pushing for. In fact, I would say it was just the opposite that it was really the folks out at the bleeding edge, so to speak, of sustainability that were active politically because it's a sensitive subject in some parts of the world, including here in the United States. However, what was really telling is that what we've seen in the last few years is an increase in political action on the part of businesses when it comes to climate change, ESG, and sustainability.

Some of that is still resistant. You know, for example, the Securities and Exchange Commission here in the United States is pushing forward a mandate for climate and emissions disclosures. And things have slowed down greatly because they've gotten a lot of pushback from the corporate sector around specific parts of that proposed rule. Much of it relating to Scope 3 emissions disclosures. However, there have been other instances where the support of the corporate and business environment and actors in that environment have been really critical. There was a lot of momentum for the US to rejoin the Paris Agreement, which we did under President Biden. A lot of that was driven predominantly by the corporate sector saying we're still in on this. We've seen other places where corporate action has really helped to drive changes to frameworks, like the Hong Kong stock exchange, for instance, which now complies with a greater emphasis on climate change mitigation.

So all over the world, there's still tension I think, between how corporate actors are taking a stand on sustainability, but it's overall starting to snowball in many ways in part because corporations see the value in sustainability, see the value in how it brings greater cost savings to their businesses creates higher resiliency, energy security, et cetera. And so I think we're going to see more engagement from the private sector in the political landscape on these topics and coming years, and that they have a huge voice and a huge opportunity to get involved at the legislative level.

Corporations see the value in sustainability, see the value in how it brings greater cost savings to their businesses creates higher resiliency, energy security, et cetera.

Powers: Yeah, that's a great point, Amy. Corporations have always been involved politically on environmental topics, but it's always been on the wrong side of the equation, right? It's always been less regulation, less care for the environment. Let me just run my business regardless of the impact. There's still plenty of that going on, don't get me wrong, but there's a whole contingent now and a growing contingent that's singing the opposite tune; seeing that sustainability for the planet means sustainability for their business interest as well. And those things go hand in hand. It's a really interesting point.

Sustainability for the planet means sustainability for... business interest as well

Austin: Thank you for the discussion around public-private collaboration. It's been really interesting to hear from you how the corporate sector has been much more involved in policy, in legislation and kind of pushing governments to, in more instances, do the right thing. And there have been various successes,?through the years of COP through the various different meetings. But actually at the moment, one of the controversial opinions that was felt by the general public is that they're getting almost fed up with COP because it isn't moving forward with the urgency it needs. So one of the themes that I wanted to look at was previous agreements that have been made within COP and not achieved, even with the topics of targets that haven't been met and the general feeling in the public that there's not enough urgency around COP. Do you still think we're making headway in the climate solution? Is there still value in running the COP events, even it's, if it's not being as urgent as people are believing it needs to be?

Haddon: You know, the honest answer is that I have really mixed feelings. If I take a step back and I really look at COP and specifically the Paris Agreement, what happens at COP is pretty extraordinary. The idea that we could get 195 at the time it was signed, it's now 196 countries to participate in a legally binding agreement, is extraordinary. And so from that level, if we look at COP as a place where countries have come together to take action in a concerted way, COP has been very successful, right? That was a historic event, to bring all countries together like that. It had never been done before. I think that there are so many nuances to what's actually happening in the Blue Zone, that it's easy for those of us who are outside of the negotiation rooms to be critical.

Great case in point from when I was in Glasgow, that was challenging event because at the 11th hour, some language around limiting fossil fuel development was eliminated from the agreement. And I even remember, um, that when it was broadcast there was such a, I think a sense of defeat from the COP president that it was, you could feel it even just in his tone of voice, his physical appearance. That was a, that was a concession that I think no one really wanted to make. However, earlier in that event, I had a very illuminating conversation with a colleague who lived extensively in Asia and really helped to illuminate for me as a westerner, just how complicated the relationship is with coal in other parts of the world. And that the transition away from fossil fuels is in many cases tied to the economy in, in very challenging ways that cannot be readily untangled.

And that, particularly in developing countries, that presents a huge challenge that we all have to grapple with. So when we see cases where countries maybe are not moving fast enough, they're setting targets that feel so far out that they're not even meaningful to some degree. That's what underlies some of those decisions is the complexities of human development, economic development, fossil fuels, the energy transition, et cetera. And so I think it's, it's difficult to come down to such a minutia in terms of how we might complain about COP, when you consider the magnitude of what the conference of parties is working to address. And frankly, the success of the IPCC in general in raising awareness of climate change, including in the private sector, has been huge. Now, that being said, we're coming up on the 30 year anniversary of COP and emissions are still rising every year.

The transition away from fossil fuels is in many cases tied to the economy in, in very challenging ways that cannot be readily untangled. And that, particularly in developing countries, that presents a huge challenge that we all have to grapple with.

If you take a step back and use that as your metric COP has failed. I think that, and I'll go back to something John said earlier, I think that a key moving forward and potentially a miss by the Conference of Parties was the engagement of the private sector. I think that should have happened earlier, frankly. And that the only way forward is the kind of partnership that we've been discussing because so much of global emissions comes from industrial processes. If we're trying to make those changes in isolation between policy and practice, we're not going to be successful. And so, yes, I can get kind of cynical about COP, but I also remain hopeful and optimistic because I think we've seen more change in the last few years than we saw in the several decades prior. Is COP driving that? Maybe. Maybe it's part of the solution, but I think more than anything is what we've already discussed, which is the private sector really waking up to the fact that to sustain their business, they have to sustain the planet.

Powers: Yeah. I think, Amy, I echo a lot of what you're saying in terms of, and Emily, a lot of what you've framed up in terms of, is it frustrating to see targets set and missed? Yes, definitely. Should our global human race be doing more faster from a government standpoint, from a private standpoint every, from all standpoints, yes, for sure. No question, but that really wasn't my overall takeaway from, from my attendance this past year. It wasn't the failings, it was the fact, like Amy alluded to, that we can actually get that many countries together and, and all of these people are working on the same problem. As somebody who's been personally working on this problem for a couple of decades of my professional career, to see people from 200 nations all gathered in one place, I think it was over 35,000 people in Sharm El Sheikh this year.

And from just every different culture and nation and and background, you can imagine all working the same problem and actually coming to some agreement it is, is kind of amazing. I was more, encouraged than discouraged just from the fact of that many dedicated smart people working on this problem at the same time. And it's a really hard problem. I mean, you're basically trying to convince human beings all over the world with wildly different situations in their country and, and politically and personally and everything else to make sacrifices today for outcomes many years in the future. And that's just not how human beings, brains are wired. I mean, it's hard enough to plan for next winter might, you know, in the fall and not just eat through all of your crops much less planned many years in the future.

And so it's, there's a, a fundamental sort of imagination issue with, with human beings where it's, it's hard to really put a lot of focus on something way in the future. To see that many countries coming together and making agreements is really heartening. To answer your question, I don't think it's a waste of time. I think that it continues to move the conversation forward. The conversation is in a place today that's vastly ahead of where it was five years, 10 years, 15 years, 20 years ago. I think COP is a contributing factor to that. And so there's certainly value in continuing to set those targets and, and set more ambitious targets, even if they're not always achieved, you know, having that conversation is valuable.

The conversation is in a place today that's vastly ahead of where it was five years, 10 years, 15 years, 20 years ago. I think COP is a contributing factor to that.

Haddon: I would add too, John, that the, the landscape and the target keeps changing, right? As we, as we have a deeper understanding of climate science, we have greater information that tells us how we need to act, but there's also now, not new, but growing complexities around adaptation. We have to ensure that the energy transition leaves no one behind. And that's something that's mission critical to us here at Schneider Electric, because we know that everyone deserves to have access to energy, digital resources, and be a fully global citizen. And those are extremely challenging issues to get one's arms around. So we're not just talking about climate change mitigation, we're talking about this cascade of impacts from climate change that also now have to be addressed at a global level. And if I have one really big criticism of COP, it's that I think many actors get very caught up in the moment and make commitments to things that then they don't fulfill.

We have to ensure that the energy transition leaves no one behind. And that's something that's mission critical to us here at Schneider Electric, because we know that everyone deserves to have access to energy, digital resources, and be a fully global citizen. And those are extremely challenging issues to get one's arms around.

And that COP itself, although legally binding, really doesn't have any teeth to go after bad actors. And, you know, we see that in a variety of ways, both formal proposals that are part of the agreement, but then also some of the commitments that are taken during the COP event around finance and other kinds of solutions, methane reduction, et cetera, out of Glasgow. That then it's like as soon as the halo of COP wears off, people start to walk back from. And what we really need to do is, is to actually fulfill the commitments that are being made and to have an enforcement mechanism that really requires the actors that commit to those changes to be held accountable for them.

Austin: You are absolutely right, despite people's feeling that the urgency of COP is not at the same level that it should be. When you look at it over the past 30 years, we have had some, some real acceleration in how governments globally and also individually are taking action. I wanted to hone in on one of the points you made at the end there, which is that potentially at these global events, promises are made that cannot be kept, commitments have been made that people are not necessarily on track to achieve, that the consequences are not being enacted in the countries that are not meeting the targets. John, do you think there should be consequences for not meeting emissions targets that have been promised by countries? Or is this gap, this emission gap, an area that private companies can step in to address these emission targets aren't being met?

Powers: I think it would be great if they were enforceable consequences, but fundamentally, international law is only what do different countries have the political will to do to enforce against other countries that are sovereign nations? So it's always gonna be limited. What are you gonna do, go to war every time somebody doesn't meet? Something like that's not, it's not a solution. So I think international law is always gonna have limited teeth, and it's gonna be up to the governments themselves to take the frameworks they've agreed to and then enact the policy within their own countries to achieve that. I think we actually saw a really nice example of that in this last year. One of the best political sustainability outcomes in my lifetime with the Inflation Reduction Act passing in the United States, as one that's, that's close to home as it were for Amy and I based here in the US, where there's real significant policy that will drive forward solutions and investments and unlock a lot of private sector investments.

And so I think, no, it's not a, a perfect law by any means, but there are certainly parts of it that we've already seen significant private sector investments in renewable energy manufacturing in the United States in extending the tax credits, enabling corporate actors to plan for long-term renewable solutions to meet their own goals and, and be able to participate in that. So there's, you know, I think it's, yes, it would be nice if things were more enforceable, but I don't, I don't have rose colored glasses on to think that that's happening anytime soon. So I think in the meantime, it's up to the individual governments to enact policy that does allow some of the private sector to play a role there.

Haddon: And we've been talking about private-public partnerships, but we're missing a really important "P" in that equation, which is the public (citizens). I think there are movements all over the world that are really raising awareness. Sometimes disruptively like extinction rebellion, for example, sometimes, less so, but they, the public has a very important role to play here because in democratic countries, we are influencing those policy makers, right? And so I'll call out some work that is being led by Corporate Knights, which is a great partner for Schneider Electric. They have really done a great analysis to take a look at how countries are or are not on track with some of their nationally defined contribution targets. And they're sharing that out widely to the public. I've sat on a few calls where it's been very interesting to sort of see the reaction.

Corporate Knights is a Canadian-based organization on a call with some Canadian folks who saw from their data that Canada is well off track when it comes to what they need to do from an environmental perspective. And there was a sense of outrage on that call. And that kind of fire in the public can really help to build movements. We can all, as public citizens, contribute to action and to urge and encourage our lawmakers to set the kind of policy that John's describing. And so we all really have to work in concert with each other to make things more transparent, to hold lawmakers accountable, to create more favorable policy for private actors. We all have a role to play in that.

Austin: That's a really good point. I want to kind of wrap up despite how amazing this conversation is. We've kind of talked on what the role has been of the private sector in COP. I just wonder, what do you think should be the role of the private sector in the COP meetings going forward?

Powers: That's a, that's a good question. So as you and Amy were, were laying out, the fundamental principle of the COP meeting is to get governments together to set and make policy. But I think we're seeing, and we've always seen that politics is influenced by the private sector and will continue to be so as the private sector is more focused on sustainability instead of just deregulation, maybe, as, as has been the case in the past, bringing that voice and that collective voice to bear and, and making sure that the government policy makers understand that that is what the business interests within their borders want, and that's what's gonna bring more business to within their borders, right? You've got big multinational corporation to make decisions every day about where am I going to build my next data center? Where am I going to build my next factory?

Where am I going to invest? What countries are more favorable for what I'm trying to accomplish? And in a growing way, what they're trying to accomplish has sustainability at its core. So the more that, you know, we as an advisor with many thousands of clients that we represent, the more that we can connect with NGOs, other conveners of corporate sustainability demands and bring that message to policymakers should just help to accelerate the progress that the lawmakers are trying to make, and hopefully remove some of those barriers or challenges where compromises have to be made, right? Like, hopefully it can be win-win solutions for all nations to focus and, and grow sustainability outcomes from a business, from a people, as well as from a political landscape.

Haddon: Really loved what John said there because I think that is crucially important and that businesses really need to be aware and grow their sophistication on this topic because sustainability is becoming such a core central operating principle for so many organizations. You reach a point where if it's not on your radar, you become a laggard. However, I would add that I actually think the Green Zone has a lot of power. There is a lot of great partnership, learning, networking that is taking place. And some of the most impactful sessions that I attended in Glasgow took place in the Green Zone. I learned a lot and I met many organizations that, like Schneider Electric are at the heart of making change in this sector. And when we can come together from an action basis and start to build those partnerships, that's critical for success. And I think COP has a bit of a different flavor than some of these other global events because it is geared toward education and action. People are there potentially to shake hands and smile at each other, but my experience was people were there to find solutions and to act. And so what a great opportunity for more corporate players to come together to do that kind of matchmaking at a global level.

Austin: Absolutely. I think you've given us a great insight there of what the Green Zone entails of, and the real benefits of the collaboration between the private sector and these partnerships and networking and education, super importantly, that take place there. You mentioned other world gatherings. We are just past another global conference that was in January, the World Economic Forum at Davos. How does this event or events like those compare to COP and do you see them also being effective in driving global collaboration on climate?

Haddon: It's interesting, Emily, because I think Davos, in a similar vein, has successes and probably some criticism as well. I actually see that it's an arc that starts with Climate Week, which kicks off in September, runs through COP and ultimately resolves at Davos over about a six month period. And I think all of those events are critically important because Climate Week has really raised the awareness of what's happening. It's created a stimulated conversation that has really then created momentum leading up to the COP event where policy is being discussed and decided, and then concluding with the meeting of global leaders, many of whom are from maybe even predominantly from the private sector rather than from the public sector, and stimulating conversation about really what, what role those leaders can take through the following year. And so I really think of all three of those events sort of in one framing that they balance and work collectively to help to raise the profile of climate change, the urgency of climate mitigation, and ultimately, set private actors up for taking advantage of the work of the prior year coming out of the Davos event.

John may have other opinions on that though.

Powers: No, that was, that was well said. That was well said. I think it, it takes all of the different events with their, you know, potential shortcomings, but they're really positive intent and focus, and then it takes every day in between for all of the individuals, all of the governments, all of the corporations to really implement some of those ambitions. This is our work every single day for all of us on the planet and certainly for all of us here at Schneider Electric to figure out how do we then take some of these ambitions and agreements, et cetera, and actually make the impact on a day-to-day, week-to-week, month-to-month basis to get to a better long-term outcome.

Austin: I totally agree. I think you wrapped up the entire discussion perfectly. Thank you both for this incredible discussion highlighting the successes and downfalls of the COP meetings, the importance and the evolution of the public sector and private sector collaboration on climate change, and for sharing your thoughts and your opinions and your experiences on this topic and how we in the private sector can move forward and do better and help the public sector move towards our targets. Thank you so much.

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