Podcast interview with Jiggy Rawal, CEO of The Curatist

David: Good morning and welcome to the sixth podcast we're recording for PCD members. This morning we're speaking with Jiggy Rawal, who is the founder and CEO of The Curatist. Jiggy's expertise is in the luxury collectible market and how high net worth clients can invest in collectible or alternative assets more effectively. So, good morning, Jiggy.

Jiggy Rawal: Morning, David. How are you?

David: I'm well, thank you. So, Jiggy, what is it that you see then for this client base? Have the motivations of wealthy investors changed over time?

Jiggy Rawal: I think for me I've seen several changes in the marketplace. I guess two big ones, which probably feed into a third one.

Firstly is the creation of new money through the development in the tech market. We've seen a massive rise in technology, be it block chain, Bitcoin, all these other fintechs coming through. That's created a whole new tier of wealth category that didn't previously exist in our traditional world. Before, it was a lot around traditional businesses. It was around retail, product development and innovation. This is all the same, but it's in the fintech space, and that space is growing rapidly at the moment.

The second is the movement in generations, and we often forget that totally. It's the kids of the 80s and 90s that are more coming into the market space now. They've just hit their mid-30s, coming into their 40s. They're now more established, whilst the the families who have left the legacy, you know, the great grandfather or the grandfather at the age of 80, the father. It's now their turn, and they're the ones making changes. 

So, if you take all of that and the generation movement there, what you see is people change the way they invest. They are more about the experience market. It's no longer just about the ROI return. It is about the overall package. It's the overall experience the client sees. It's not about traditional instruments anymore.

If we were to look at it in the simplest form, when we first started getting mobile phones, when we could text that was a movement. Text is now the most basic function of the phone. We now have a smart phone that can pretty much do most of our life things. And, that's the same with financial instruments and stuff. People now want to actually have the joy of owning the assets. They don't just want to have a piece of paper or certificate to say, "Yes, I hold a bond," or, "Yes, I hold an ISA. Okay, that's fine, but I want to have joy out of it." They want to invest in things they're more passionate about. 

So, what do they actually have an interest in? A lot of these investors, be it charitable things, that we're seeing a growth in. The idea that some of these guys love technology, the investment in the technology space. These guys are loving cars, and the investment in car production and stuff like that. I'm seeing more of that in the passion market. Combining that alongside their financials.

It's been quite interesting, because there's a lot of research that's been done recently into the passion asset market, and actually it's shown that people first of all, it is about the joy of ownership. Then comes the appreciation and value of the asset itself. And, then, basically people see it as a safe way to store their wealth.

It is interesting that the new generation is looking to now create their own legacies, and that's about being disruptive and changing the way we do things.

David: So, in terms of what they're spending their money on then, it's less about the traditional pieces that a collector might have acquired over time from the traditional sources like the auction houses. Is that right? Are they looking for more, whether it's modern art or cars or wine? And, how do they go about accessing markets that they may be limited knowledge on themselves or limited access to professional advice in that area?

Jiggy Rawal: Spending has been different in different areas. There's been a big rise in wealth regions, but it's shifted. So, we know that Europe is no longer the stronghold it once was in terms of wealth growth. North America and Asia have seen a massive growth in this. Asia continues to grow in the number of ultra-wealthy people. If we look at the rise in the number of ultra-wealthy individuals are those with net assets of over 59 million or more, that rose by like 10%, 2017. And, things like corporation tax, CGTN, all that sort of stuff has played a big part.

People therefore are looking to invest their monies into areas such as art. Art for large growth last year of roughly about 20% and overtook wine. For the third time in a very long time, wine only had a growth of roughly about 11% over 12 months last year. And, classic cars fell quite far behind. So, that kind of show you how people are beginning to spend their money, slowly and slowly. The clients are very particular and very sane at the same times. Some of my clients and some of the clients at here are very passionate, and it's just about their passions. So, the ROI is almost irrelevant. And, some focus heavily on the investment proposition.

I guess The Curatist is really about combining both. I've done 16 years in financial services myself, which entailed 11 years in wealth management. So, I'm fully aware of that. And, for five years I was a CFO. So, I know it's important to combine the passion side of something with the financials. And, wanting to make sure that the client preserves that. Some clients have been collecting for many years, and some have been fairly novice, and they're now looking to start building collections. 

Those that have been collecting for many years, which tend to be a much older generation, have been going through the classic forms of auction houses. And, that's great, but if you think about the economics of the auction house, in that buy the time you've paid the buyer's premium at an auction house, you've pretty much given away the best part of 2 years worth of returns on that item. Because, the buyer's premium ranges anywhere between 15 to 30% at an auction house, which is quite significant. 

So, what The Curator seems to do, we work outside that market space. It's not just the auction houses that are used as resources. We have an international access to direct to the market space. It's not about being tied to suppliers and stuff. It's completely independent, as the focus is based on the clients itself. That means that we go out, and we source what the client is after, and that gives the best possible ROI return for clients. Clients are also looking at doing a little bit more, and what we're seeing is it's not just the ROI.

We've got one client, for example, that's building a hotel over in the Indian Ocean, loves artwork. We're working to build an art collection for them, but the key thing is ethics. This collector, investor, wants to ensure that the artist that they buy from isn't investing back into the community that they are doing the art form, which is incredibly important to this particular investor. So, it is completely different from the approach an auction house would use.

David: Does your business come through ... I imagine a lot comes through client referrals but also do you create partnerships with other professionals who are seeking to offer their clients something different and more interesting in this luxury collectible market?

Jiggy Rawal: Yeah. The Curatist is kind of identified a bit of a niche in the market space in that respect. So, auction houses traditionally will focus on what they have access to. They are limited in what they can provide. Galleries will sell the artist that they are representing. Givers will give you what they have available to you in their stock. And, the other thing is most wealth managers make the mistake is when a client comes to them for a referral, they often go to the friend who is a dealer in something. But, again, you're just giving the client the option of stock. 

So, The Curatist has created partnerships with wealth managers, luxury brands across the board. This includes luxury boutique hotels globally, where we provide a service to their clients. The Curatist will understand what the client's looking for within their collection or new collection. They will understand what there is to understand, what budgets and financials are available. They will source the item, produce recommendations based on both financials and the passion the client has for the item. And, they will work alongside the wealth manager to help the client ensure that that goes into their portfolio. It is the most tax efficient way ... the item is dealt in the most tax efficient way possible. 

The beauty of this is where The Curatist has got involved with wealth managers, the wealth manager who's had more reason now to touch point with their client. Wealth managers traditionally contact their clients just before the tax year ends to say, "Mr. Client you haven't utilized every tax vehicle possible. Let's get going." And, that leaves the client with one or two months. However, if wealth manager's more ingrained now because they're providing this additional service around the passions and the actual lifestyle of the client, they have more reason to touch point with them on a more regular basis. 

If your client is buying artwork, for example, earlier in the year, the moment that piece of artwork is bought, The Curatist works with the wealth manager to say, "Your client's bought a piece of artwork. This needs to go into a portfolio." The wealth manager contacts the client. "Okay, we need to do this. Here is the tax implication potential for this. We're going to mitigate this. Here is the product that we need to do this right now." 

And, that collaborative work between The Curatist, wealth managers, law firms, and kind of the clients itself, I've seen have a real positive impact. Clients aren't feeling like they're being bombarded just for financials by their wealth manager once a year or twice a year. But, they're now being more inclusive, seen as much more positive influences.

David: Thanks very much, Jiggy. Very interesting conversation about changes in the market. Anyone who's interested in helping their clients get some advice on luxury collectibles please do reach out to Jiggy. But, thanks very much for your time this morning.