Overcoming Childhood Fears to Lead Global Change:

: Hello, welcome today, we have Bill Phillips. He is the owner of Phillips partnership limited. He is an NLP coach and trainer. And he has created and discovered this amazing process called future base. Hello, welcome to the show, Bill. How are you doing today?

: Feeling great. Thank you. Thanks for inviting me.

: You're a Baby Boomer and you were born in the mid 1940s. What was London like growing up at that time?

: I remember the old London fog, in particular. That's quite a strong memory for me. I remember one particular day, it must have been around midday, maybe one o'clock in the afternoon...I was trying to find my way home along the street that I lived in. And the only way I couldn't do it was because the fog was so thick. If you extended your arm straight in front of you couldn't see your hand. And so I'm feeling my way along the wall, and the wall is on my right hand side...a brick wall, I gradually become aware that there's a big bright light in front of my face. It turns out to be the headlight of a bus, which was on the pavement creeping along following and using the brick wall to show his path. So I think he suddenly realised at that moment, he was almost about to run, the movie was going very, very slowly. "There was a kid in front of us." So those times and kind of coughing and choking was not an infrequent experience in my young childhood.

And then of course, at that time in the late 1940s, early 50s, we were still rationed in the UK, which meant that staple food was something that we used to call bappy bread, which was a slice of bread, buttered and dropped face down into the sugar bowl. So it's bread, butter, and sugar. And as kids used to jump on that, as we were filling ourselves up and keeping ourselves coming in interesting times. And it's hard to imagine those although the way things are going right at the moment, it's beginning to feel just a little bit like that again.

Aron: And what did your parents do?

: My parents are both dead now. That time my dad was working as an electrician. And that was probably when I was around seven to 12 years old. That kind of time, he worked largely on building exhibition stands and putting the electrics and the lighting in exhibition stands. At the time, our pinkie used to enjoy that. And he used to do that alongside his brother in law, Pat, so the two of them used to get jobs together or lose jobs together. And they were almost like terrible twins. As far as that time, they would have been about 23 or 24 years old.

My mom used to do all kinds of different jobs. So one time she was cleaning hotel rooms, another time she was working in a bakery. And other times she was working in the factory, just around the corner. There was a big cross and black hole canning factory. I think she'd worked there several times on amd off. And then there was another company just around the corner as well, which have been skipped manufacture of the biscuit manufacturer called Peak creams. And so she works for Peak creams as well for a number of years. So just like a typical mom, you know, do lots of different jobs to make ends meet. So that was in those old days anyway. But they both passed on now. Because otherwise then they would be about 90 something years old. That was that was part of my young life. But I remember, my experiences at school were difficult. One big memory I have of young life is the fear of being frightened, and being frightened much of the time. So when I used to go to school that kind of ages four to five. It seems stressful over time, seem to be good things wrong. I remember one of my first school teachers when I went up into the junior school, I think they call it Junior School in primary school. I was five years old and this man who was in his 60s at that time. I remember his name Bill. And apparently he taught my Father in My Father's school when he was young. And the very first thing this man said to me when he set eyes on me and I'm sitting in the classroom, this little five year old boy. And he says "I told your father, and I didn't think much of him. And I don't think much of you." Of course you can imagine poking his finger and looking at me with a really red fear space kind of filled me with terror. And that became and kind of my general sense of what school was like all about in those days, it was pretty unpleasant. So I had a number of episodes where, you know, I'd be terrorised by the head teacher, or by this teacher or by someone else, and end up, you know, escaping from school and running home and locking myself in the toilet for three hours. And my parents used to get quite distressed about that. I remember one particular time I ran home in a panic, I can't remember what had happened, but something terrified me. I locked myself in the toilet, I think I must have been in about three or four hours, I was probably five, barely six years old. At the time, the school became quite concerned that there have been several episodes of me escaping and doing this. They recommended that I should be examined by an educational psychologist, I think it was. And this person did their analysis of me apparently, and told my parents with pleasure that this young man has a very, very high IQ. I can't remember what it wasn't 110 or 120, something like that. And that this may be that he's just super sensitive. And because I think one of the other characteristics when I was a kid was I was at a really brilliant imagination that was very imaginative. The downside of it was that I used my imagination to scare myself to death. So maybe we'd be watching TV on a Saturday night, there'll be some sci fi programme called the troll of terror or a big blob of goo that slid down a Swiss mountain or something, as I'm watching this on this TV, which had a screen about six inches square. And with this blurred black and white image, I will be so scared, I'd be hiding behind the sofa and just poking my head up every now and again looking. And then because with this amazing imagination I had then I would spend the next three weeks scaring myself to death every time I went to bed. So in those days as well go to bed was pretty scary for me. It usually meant scary dreams. And there was a lot in my childhood, which was about fear and worrying concerned that I was going to be destroyed. So very strange kind of childhood. And yet, of course, I suppose it's easy to get lost in memories like that and forget all the brilliant times as well. And there are certainly many, many good times, I suppose one thing that was characteristic of me when I was small was drawing and painting. I used to draw a lot. In fact, after my dad died, my sister sent me some of his belongings little knickknacks that she had in a box. And one of them was a tiny piece of paper about four inches square. My father it had my father's handwriting on it, it said Billy five years old. And because I was called Billy when I was little. And it was a drawing of the crucifixion. So it was a little heel and three crosses. And people are keen on this process. And it actually was a rather skillful drawing. And when I saw this one, I was deeply touched that my sister said my dad had actually carried this folded up in his wallet ever since that day. So it was in his wallet when he died. And I was deeply touched by that. But also shocked that I as a five year old boy might have thought of drawing crucifixion. And that kind of reminds me that when I was small, one big issue in my life was being made to go to Sunday school. And as I've been made to go, because that was kind of the tradition in those days. But I didn't like to go to Sunday school. I didn't want to be in school all the week. And I didn't like that. But in fact, Sunday school was much nicer because it was a nice, friendly, relaxed atmosphere. It was kind of supportive. And I remember I became fascinated by the stories of the Bible and Jesus and the miracles he would work. And it's funny, that idea of working miracles kind of stuck in my mind. Maybe I'll come back to that a little bit later. But I was deeply impressed by the idea that he could do such amazing things and heal people. So round about six years old, I decided or maybe I'd like to become a clergyman.I'd like to be a priest when I grow up. And that idea got a hold of me quite strongly. I won a prize at school, which was a beautiful little illustrated Bible, or a book of Bible stories. And one of the things I used to love was the brilliantly coloured illustrations in there of Jesus and his disciples and all the happenings that key stories that passed by. But then I noticed I began to notice in the Sunday school that although we're being told, be kind to one another, be good to your neighbour and tell the truth and be honest. What I noticed was the people making this do this, when we actually went outside in the street, they were yelling at us telling us off and being really not kind of not supportive at all. So that kind of got me to move and think, yeah, maybe I don't want to be a priest. So I gave up that idea for about six and a half years.

So that was kind of some of my early formation, I guess. I think there was actually there was one experience I had at school. There was this class with this horrible teacher who said he was you didn't think much of me. He said we're going to listen to a radio broadcast, and you're going to take notes And I thought, I don't know what that means. And so he said, open your exercise books. So we all open their books. And they said, "I'm going to start a broadcast and you better make notes because I'm going to ask you questions about it." So of course, you can imagine I absolutely shrunk in terror sitting there just almost wetting myself with fear. I didn't know what taking notes meant I started to write the first sentence. And then realise by the time I'd written three or four words, the man spoke to another 30 and 40. Being afraid and thinking, Well, I have to ask her questions, I better listen. So I listened. And every now and again, I would make a little single word or a note hoping that that would help you remember, at the end of the broadcast probably only lasted 10 minutes, the teacher said, Okay, you stand up, read me your notes, and the child read the first line of the broadcast. And then he made that one sit down and told someone else to do and they did the same. First few words of the broadcast. And then the third one stood up and said, the first three words the forecast. And then he said to me, all right, Phillips, you stand up, I said, I didn't really understand what making notes meant. So I only wrote a little and he said, "Come out here I'm fed up with you." And he leaves me over a desk, he pressed his hand on the back of my neck, beat my backside flip, it seemed inversely and one of the kind of impressions I had when I finally stood up and placed the class. And all I could see was blurred white blobs that were their faces, I think they were all sitting there and terror open that it wouldn't be them as well. And I remember having made made a decision at that moment was everyone else knew what to do except me. And it's really strange to as an adult, quite advanced in years now. That pattern is still witness very curious away certain patterns from early childhood really stick with everyone else knows, except me, one knows what to do except me. What I used to find more or less from then on when certainly my sort of early teens was I would work so hard and do my homework. There was always this feeling that I had to work harder than everyone else, because they know what to do. And I had to do this to keep up so to speak. So my formative years were really, I suppose, in many ways, quite stressful. I'm sure there are many people listening to this, you think, yeah, I've got my own version of that. And I think that's what makes us you know, the adults that we are -- people were uncertain about their own value and their own worth, and so on. And I guess you know, that dealing with that, and handling that challenge is probably largely what makes me who and what I am really, that makes me do this kind of work of helping other people of learning, passing on that learning. It's curious to put it together a kind of a track of events.

: So fast-forward to your teens and towards finishing your education. Do you go and do a degree or university or what happened after this?

: Well, my family was really quite poor in terms of, you know, very low income, we were low income kind of working class. So my parents couldn't afford to send me to university and at that particular time, so we're talking about 1959. That kind of time, there weren't any grants available for university students that came a little later. And so really didn't get the opportunity to go to university at that time. So my early teenager really was was finishing school and then getting a job. And in fact, that was my very first job was working for a milk delivery company. As a as a young boy, for about what 10 years old, I guess. I managed to get a Saturday job helping a milkman. So my mum used to get me up at six o'clock every Saturday morning. I'm not going up his van all day Saturday, finish about four o'clock, I guess. And you know, for a little 10, 11, 12 year old boy, that was fairly strenuous work. But I used to love it. In fact, one of the nicest memories I have of that is going out into the street sort of 6:30 and the hearing of Blackbird on the top of the building, singing its heart out. In the silence of the quietness of that early morning time, the birds call would would echo and it's quiet kind of interesting. I came to a conclusion one day, how is it that black birds when they sing in the morning, they always find a place where their voice will echo because I remember the echo of the bird song bouncing off the buildings, but it used to kind of lift my spirits somehow. That was one of those really powerful and a nicer experience. So I guess through my whole life, I've tended to get up fairly early in the morning for being early riser. Even when I go to bed very late at night. That's something else I got from that. But my first job was with a milk round doing a thing and milk rounds. In fact, I took over the round that this man who I think he'd moved on or you retired, I took on his round. It's quite a big round apparently. But that job didn't last more than a few months. And then I moved on to other things. And I was playing in a band at the time as well. So I've been learning guitar. I learned to play music. So I was the lead guitarist in a small band. And really the music we played, there was a very famous band, which I'm sure many people know called The Shadows. And so I learned to play like Hank Marley by listening to his records and copy. And so we had a band that played cellos, music, and we played it really very well. We had a funny experience with that. I think it was when was it? 1963 We booked an audition with an agent of a theatrical agent of the great organisation, which is still a very famous theatrical agency. This man came we hired the rehearsal rooms at Piccadilly Circus, the windmill rehearsal rooms over called quite famous. We did this audition for this agent, and he said, "you know, you're one of the very, very best semi pro bands I've ever seen. You really are good. You look good. You synchronise beautifully. You've got musicality. You're very good bed. You said the only thing is when I close my eyes, I hear The Shadows, and you really do sound like the shadows. And he said, You can't get away with it. They've already. They're already there. They said, look, there's this new band that's just made this record called The Beatles, right? Obviously, there's close harmonies singing they do. I really don't think it's going to get them anywhere. But if you could come up with something like that, just send me a tape. You don't have to go to all this expense. And and I'll definitely get you. The interesting thing was that was the point of which we as a band decided to disband. I suppose we realised that that idea about the Beatles not getting anywhere probably really have legs. I wonder if he ever remembered saying that afterwards. So that's part of my only kind of teenage focus.

: So where did you go after this, Bill? Because you've got this huge amount of experience and knowledge and everything, but like, is it going to other jobs or other fields? Or do you do eventually go to get some formal education over time?

: Well, I guess the time when my formal education really started was in horticulture, really, really looking forward to about a decade. So I early 20s, I got to a place where I needed a job. I didn't have a job.

I met a girl on a holiday in Spain, with my parents. I was trying out karate at the time. In fact, the idea of getting involved in karate was very much to build my physical strength because I realised I'd spent most of my young life and my teens being uncomfortable, afraid, and nervous. So building my physical strength and becoming strong was an issue. And I became deeply fascinated with karate at the time. But I got a job in the local park, I went over and said, Look, do you have any jobs as a park keeper or something? And somebody said, Well, we don't need park keepers. But we could do some gardeners, would you like to work as a gardener? So I said, Yeah, that'd be great. Thanks. And so I started that and became fascinated, there was a training course available to do basic gardening skills. So I asked the park manager, if I could go on that and he was happy to send me. And then I realised that this could be so interesting, because there was so much to learn about plants. So I became fascinated in knowing plants – being able to recognise them and being able to name them. I made an arrangement with the assistant manager in the park, where, during the day, my lunchtime, I'd go around, and I'd cut little twigs and snippets of plants and bushes and flowers. I'd then take them to him, and I put a label on them. And then he would write the name of the plant on the label. And then I would go home, and I would look them up. And that way, over a couple of years, I really learned a huge amount about the naming of plants and what they were called and where they were from and their histories. And I kind of began to get the idea that it's something I could study for the rest of my life, because I've never had this much to know. And so I became really quite excited by that. So I managed to get some more qualifications became a supervisor in parks, so And eventually I did a City and Guilds series of city guilds exams. And one of my kind of proud moments was when I was awarded a City and Guilds silver medal for being the premier student. And I can't remember which year it was probably 1976 or 77, something like that, for greenhouse work and growing and propagating plants. And so that was that was a nice accolade. Just at that particular time, I'd managed to get a job which took me to southern Spain. Although the job advert, I answered, said, a houseplant specialist required for a nursery in southern Spain. And by this time, I was married to my Spanish girlfriend, and she was from a town called El Maria on the bottom right hand corner of the map. It just so happened we didn't know this because it wasn't said in the book, that this was the place in southern Spain with his job. So I managed to get this job because I spoke pretty Spanish. By that time I went to Southern Spain and the minute I arrived, they said, “How are you? We're growing strawberries in polythene tunnels.” And I said, I'm a tropical plants expert, I don't know about strawberries. And they said, well, we want to do a trial with strawberries. So I never did get to grow tropical plants in southern Spain. In fact, I ended up managing a nursery of 12 hectares of tomato plants. And so I was there for about two years growing tomatoes first as the assistant manager, then the manager should nursery. And that was a very, very interesting time very challenging time for me. But interesting running financial nurture, being the manager of a commercial nursery, 12 hectares, we had 144,000 plants. And each of these 12 Greenhouses was about the size of a professional football pitch, and had 14 local staff who were, you know, helping us grow. Very interesting experience and course, really strong experience as a manager and as a leader. And making things working, for me was a foreign environment. Very interesting, but you know, a great part of my formation as a manager and as a leader, and, and eventually, as a consultant and a coach. It was really interesting times what was challenging about this, it was challenging, because I wasn't an expert in tomatoes. So most of what I did, I worked as the assistant manager for one year, I my boss was an English grower, a very experienced English. And then he went back to England, and the partnership that the Spanish in the the British companies had formed was now disbanded. So I was left there with the Spanish staff and the greenhouses that the owners saying, Well, you just continue growing the crop. But then they decided to rent off for the greenhouse or one block of the greenhouses, to a Dutch company who came over to grow cut flowers. So then they became very interested in the fact that growing cut flowers, they could earn an awful lot more money than by growing tomatoes. So they kind of started to lose the interest in what I was doing and gain interest in maybe making no nursery to cut flowers. So that was a time in which I decided my my role there was coming to an end. And I went back to the UK to arrive and suitable time back to the UK. And my first job was in a local park just as a way. Of course, now I was working with people who really weren't skilled. They were just workers. And they were nice, lads. I was in charge of a team. But the park manager in this particular place really didn't want the having any ambitions. So I thought, no, that's not working for me either. A local friend of mine got me a job in a security company doing that security. So what I ended up doing was was doing a security job seven nights a week. And then I would come home and have an hour of sleep and then go out and do people's gardens. So I became a gardener, the freelance gardener looking after gardens, and then gradually moved into landscaping and designing cars. And that was pretty good for a number of years. But then that started to grow and get a bit big and I would have meant to have investment and buy a truck and have a yard and I didn't really have the resources or the courage to do that at the time. So that was that facilitated another moves. I probably did that for about five or six years. I left that went to do a job as an assistant trainer, and an assistant instructor, you know, to culture training centre. So I was an assistant instructor. I was trained as an instructor, this was 1981. Now we're talking about I was trained as an instructor in horticulture with this other chap in this, the training centre that we were running was really training parks and cemeteries workers for seven local authorities in London. So they joined together in what they called a group training scheme. And we were responsible for organising, designing and doing the training. And there was a kind of a national curriculum of training for parks and cemetery workers in those days that I started writing articles critiquing this system, which was a bit too rigid, because most of my bosses, the managers of these parts department, were part and try there was saying, Look, we don't want you to teach in that stuff. We've got these problems. And so I started to talk to them and say, “What do you want me to teach?” I started writing articles saying, you know, we horticulture trainers really should be paying attention to our customers, talking to them finding out what they need and serving those needs, and not necessarily following a theoretical national curriculum for the parks and cemeteries. And those were the two articles that I released at that time were fairly popular and getting lots of recognition. And so I realised I was beginning to kind of make a name in the training world. And that was something which kind of echoed with things that people used to say to me when I was quite young, which you should be a teacher, you know, you're really good at explaining things. I couldn't bear to be a teacher drive you crazy. But now let's begin to realise Yeah, I was pretty good at explaining things and I could learn things much more deeply and thoroughly than most other people and pass on that information. became very, very interested. So I spent kind of five Five years working as a trainer in horticulture in a deployment and Training, Training Management are already beginning to learn about leadership and management on the fairleads kind of big scale that led on to a job that Manchester Airport. There was interest in my marriage are broken up by this time I was looking around, there was a job advertised at Manchester Airport for a training a senior training officer, I think it was. And a friend of mine sent me that said that because she'd seen you said, Bill, here's your job. And so I applied for it and actually managed to get it which was thrilling and exciting. And it was also interesting that I had met a woman from that part of the world from around Rochdale. And for me love with her. And so having a job which enabled me to go and live in that part of the country was rather exciting. So I moved to Manchester Airport. And indeed, I think, five, six years there. And that was a really very interesting time at Manchester airport because they, they were a local authority and airport on time. So their owners were all the nine local authorities around Manchester including Manchester's but they were becoming they were becoming a PLC, they were making the move from being local authority owned to to being floated on the stock exchange, when I was invited to go and meet both the Executive Board and the to the executive. And they said, Look, we're really pleased to have our own training officer, you're the very first man, we're looking forward to seeing what training courses you're going to be doing for us, especially with our supervisory people. And I said, Well, I'm you know, thank you for inviting me, I'm thrilled. How do you see me being involved in your business planning? Because it seems to me over the next few months with a move to becoming a PLC, there's going to be an awful lot to learn, and how can I help you and the management of the company do that? And they kind of looked slightly stunned and thought, are you joking? Your training? So what would you have to do with business plan? So I said that was just simply the learning itself. I don't know. I'm no expert in business planning. But I am an expert in learning, it seems to me if I can help you learn what you need to learn and identify it that could be really useful. And in fact, someone saw that as quite a sensible and useful idea. And they ended up talking to people at Manchester University in Manchester business school, and getting the top team some help with learning how to do business planning, because the people had never done that before. And it was interesting, you know, four years later, they had a very, very sophisticated way of doing business business planning. And in those days, Manchester Airport was just one company. It's now the Manchester Airport Group. And I like to think that the influence I had on the strategic thinking of the organisation had something to do with that. And in fact, it was while I was at Manchester airport that I had an opportunity to do a master's degree. And that was just about the same time as I became introduced to neuro linguistic programming. And the connection was a very interesting one, because I'd taken some training in 1986, on a new method for helping teams to operate effectively. It was called team management systems, TMS. And I've been trained in how to use this. And basically, it was a questionnaire, which helps people identify what's their tendency, what are their work preferences, and how do they prefer to operate in their job? And how does this affect them when they're a member of the team. As leaders, as managers, as colleagues, inside became very skillful in working with teams, it's time the early 1980s was actually a time when teamwork in was beginning to be studied seriously, before that understanding of how teams worked. And group dynamics was really quite limited in the world. There are many researchers doing this kind of research based on famous people working in the USA, for example, in leadership and organisation, it's hard. And so I didn't realise it at the time. But I was in on the early days of researching to team development and team working. And so much of what I was exploring and reading about was actually adding to that experience of how people in teams work. So one of the fortunate things I was given the opportunity to do was to be trained in group dynamics, I did a training of something called Action Learning. And so I was trained as an action learning set advisor. And Action Learning group is a group of leaders or managers who all have different jobs, and they come together with the idea of discussing their problems. And it's almost really the early days of a kind of team coaching process where the team coached the problem hold on my job as a facilitator was to watch the dynamics and help the team coach their colleagues. And then each time they met, one of the people will be the subject and they will be hearing their issue or their problem. And so I learned in the very early days of the train that I'm talking about 8384 kind of time Yeah, about that kind of time was that I was learning how to study group dynamics how to observe people in motion in doing their work, and that set of skills really has stayed with me and grown and has been a key part my skill set my development ever since some very skilled at working groups, even with very, very big groups, and watching all the little signals and science and managing discussion in a very competent facilitator now becomes a precious experience for me at the time.

: As someone that lived in fear at a young age and then try to lack courage through becoming managing people and leadership, do you get a chance to challenge those things in you?

: Well, yeah, because I mean, one of the things I learned early on in supervisory position, in fact, I can think that I had a manager, one of the park managers that I went to work at, he was a man called Bill grey. And I'll remember him forever. Because my first day in this park, I was kind of be a supervisor in this park, in Northland, he took me around the park and introduced me to every single person that worked there, which was a team of about 15, I think. And to every person or every group of people, he said, this is Bill, he's your new supervisor, I want you to understand that if Bill asked you to do something, he's doing it on my behalf. So I want you to operate with Bill the same as you would operate with an instruction from me. So he was establishing my authority with those people are doing a very friendly, gentle way. The one thing he then said to me afterwards was Bill, there's gonna be times when something will happen. And you need to make a decision. And it might be a difficult decision. And I might not be around for you to refer to, if that happens, when that happens, I want you to take a decision. And if you get it wrong, I will back you 100%. So long as you don't make the same mistake twice. But being a manager, being a leader requires that you make decisions sometimes, and sometimes there happens, you will be on that. So I said absolutely. And I really appreciated that because he was telling me what to do. What was funny was, you know, every now and again, something would happen where Bill taking the decision, and things hadn't worked out quite well. And he said, he looked at me sideways, like, and he'd say, you cut that up? Didn't your bill? Say? Yep, I reckon I did. So if it were to happen, again, what you're gonna do about it. And that way, he would challenge me say, to review what had happened, and think What are you gonna do next, then if it happens, we'll never again. So there was always a plan, if you like, he was making sure that I learned from my mistakes, of course, I would naturally pass that on to the people that reported to me in their groups as well, in my teams. And again, that's, that's something which enabled you to understand the dynamics of working with with people in teams, again, you know, it's served my skill as a as a coach and a trainer. And people help, like, so those are pressures, experiences, of course, I was applying that at Manchester Airport, and in my kind of observations and thinking about how to help other people operate effectively together. So here I was then becoming quite expert at working with groups of people and teams are quite expert at helping them understand themselves as well. And one of the authors of this, this questionnaire, this system called team management systems, a man called Nick McCann did a study and he wrote a book in 1988, he published it called how to influence others at work, really, this was a study of how, when you know what people's preferences are in this team management system, they're going to react in certain ways. And so you can learn how to communicate with them in ways to implement some really powerful, and he came over to England because he was from Australia, came over to England and ran a three day trainers training for his method that he'd done. And I was one of the people in this group of about 30 others in the group after the course I was so fascinated by this, because it explained so much. In fact, I finally metaphor for it. I said, it's, it's almost like over the years, I've been observing people behaving in certain ways. And I'll be puzzled by these strange behaviours, or these strange quirks in people but not really have an idea or a sense of what was going on. All I knew was there was something weird about that. And it was as if each one of these experiences over the years have been a piece of a jigsaw puzzle, but I was dropping into a long syndrome cylindrical bag, about 15 inches deep and about five inches in diameter, I suppose. This is the image I had a month I was like a black velvet drawstring bag. And I was dropping all the bits of jigsaw puzzle in the bag. And then all of a sudden, this course that can lead us through inverted the bag for me, and all the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle fell out with the completed into the completed puzzle, as if they all fell into place. And I thought, yes, that's what's going on. So this my first introduction to Neuro Linguistic Programming NLP, because I immediately looked at Dick's bibliography in his book, I think there was 17 or 18 books listed in this bibliography. I went out and bought all of them and read every single one cover to cover and started applying this new learning in my work at Manchester Airport. And it totally shifted the effects I was getting it totally shifted the way that people agreed For me much more readily and much more easily, it shifted the way I explained my thinking and could communicate with people because it was all about face to face communication, and Coach adding that to my skills, observing group behaviour and unconscious behaviour, it's all fitted perfectly. And so I started to have an influence at Manchester Airport, you know, start to really help them shift into a more strategic way of thinking and business planning. And I like to think that had quite a strong effect on the development of those skills and that tendency at Manchester Airport. So they were really by the time I left in 1991, they were becoming quite skillful and sophisticated at business planning. Their business plan, when I first seen it, when they started this shift to PLC, have been an 81 page document of this is what we did last year. It's hardly a plan, it's a retrospective review. So very interesting development there. And so I became introduced to NLP 1988. And then started to work with it furiously straightaway. And the following year, about Yeah, just over a year later, DECnet came came back to the UK to do a two day certification programme. So really, what he intended was that in that year, we all practice the material we've learned and become really good at it, and use his model. And then he was gonna kind of give us some extra training and get us a certificate saying, Yeah, you're competent to teach this model. And in fact, out of all the 30 people on the course, I was the only single person who'd done what I've done and studied it furiously and worked with enthusiastic children. And so now I was really becoming quite skilled at communicating and connecting with people and being really influential in the way that I've poured ideas, and so on. So it was an exciting time. And from Manchester Airport, I then went to work for a consulting company, and became a consultant. And so I would then be sent out to organisations all over the world, because they wanted when they were recruiting me, they were looking for consultants who could also speak Spanish and or French. And I was already a fluent Spanish speaker by that. So I was hired by them and ended up doing work in South America and several places around the world. But that was where I learned how to be a consultant. And so I spent six years with them, becoming a management consultant, but applying all of the skills and course at the same time, in my own time, I was continuing to develop my NLP skills. So I took an NLP practitioner training in 1991. It was in 91, completed my master's degree just before I left Manchester Airport. So I had the Master of Philosophy degree, through research I did at the airport Company, which was responsible partly for the learning and development of the senior team, and moved out into consulting, doing all kinds of projects involving consulting work involving training, training, design, in wellbeing, coaching, because in those early days, as well, while I was still at Manchester Airport, people coming to me saying, I don't want to be an airport handled my life, is there any way you could help me become a supervisor or a manager. And so I would, I had two or three people that I was giving ideas and advice to about how they might go and study something or how they might talk to somebody and find their way. Because what I didn't think about at the time was what I was doing was coaching. And again, the term coaching in business had not been invented yet. So coaching really started being applied formally to business in the early 90s. So we're talking about the 1980s. And in fact, it was during the coating of one of these individuals, that I stumbled across a way of thinking that I eventually called Future basing. And the way it happened was I had attended a training course with the Dale Carnegie organisation. This was like one evening a week for eight weeks, I think. So it's like eight modules that are module number five, we were required to create for ourselves of the three year personal development plan. So we had a series of forms to fill in which say, where do you want to be in three years time? Where do you want to be in two years time? Where would you have to be one year's time? And what would you have to do for the next three months in order to start that process. And I couldn't do it. I could not do this process at all. I couldn't get my head around it. So we were supposed to prepare this development plan that week, and then stand up for two minutes and present to the room. What we came up with the following week. I just wasn't ready for that. So it seemed quite ironic. But here I am the training manager at Manchester Airport. And yet I've never done a personal development plan before. And when I was faced with doing it found it really hard. So in the end, in fact, after the course, finished, I ended up writing a load of nonsense on this form, just to complete it. And I wrote things like I have a master's degree now. Well, at the time I wrote it that was impossible because you couldn't go on a master's programme without having a first degree, since I didn't have a first degree that wasn't going to happen, Acquainted or friendly with people whose books I read was another thing I remember writing. I was explaining this, this young man who was being coached by me and I said, Look, I think now's a good time for you to think about where do you want to be in a year's time? I said, there's a method that I learned on this training course. So I want to say to you is didn't actually work for me, I said, but I know it will work for you, because you're much more structured than linear in the way that you think. And I think this method lends itself to that. So I'm showing him the documents that I'd filled in. As I'm looking over his shoulder. I'm realising everything I'd written down, there was actually happening. I was on a master's degree course, I was acquainted with people whose books I read, in fact, I was becoming quite good friends with a couple of them, I was becoming very well known in my industry, because of the role I held and so on. And I thought, how can that be, because when I wrote that this couldn't happen, and now it's happening. And so that set a train of thought, which led me to create a replica of this way of thinking if you like, which led to results, which, at the time when I dreamed them up, couldn't happen. One of the interesting characteristics, and I only noticed this about a year later, when I was looking back at these documents, again, I realised in that document, I've written everything that was in the future, in the present tense, as if it were already real. So I do have a master's degree I am friends with and I thought, I didn't notice myself doing that at the time I wrote it. Because the form said, Where do you want to be? Where will you be? It didn't say, where are you? And so I was puzzled as to how I came to do that using my NLP skills. I would say my unconscious directed me to do that. But nevertheless, that was a discovery that I'd written everything in the present tense. So I thought, I wonder if that's something about what made it work. And I started to conjecture about looking back from this idea of outcome, this outcome that I'd originally thought was impossible, noticing what the things I've done, that seemed like a good idea at the time. But I hadn't connected with this vision, so to speak, that had led me here. And in fact, one of the things that have led me to become friends with someone whose books I read was that there was an event published, a one day event said, Come on, meet the experts or something. And one of these experts was a man called Alan Mumford. And Ella Mumford was very well known in those days as a leadership consultant. And a coach of becoming known as a coach from that was a new term. He was also very famous for a learning styles questionnaire, it was called Honey and Mumford learning styles questionnaire. And there are a number of things about this learning styles questionnaire, which I disagreed with. And he was an opportunity to meet Alan Mumford. And to be able to cross examine him and say, Look, I disagree with that. How does that work out? So I met and Mumford whose books I did read in those days, and he published some really important books. So that was an example of how, just by chance, I went on this one day thing. And the other thing was one a month it's colleague was a man called Roger benek. And I was having a chat with him in a coffee break. And I said to him, Roger, I seem to remember in the trade journal, that there's a course offered for a Master of Philosophy degree by research, and I'm sure it was your business school that was offering it, he said, that's why I'm the course director. And I said, Well, you're just the very man I want to speak to because I think I'm qualified to come on this course. And so less than a year later, I was actually on this master's degree programme, being led by Roger Bennett, and being trained partly by Alan Mumford. And using action learning as a basis for this form of study, which, of course, I was already expert in. And so so many things dropped into place somehow. And I thought, This can't be coincidence, there must be something in the way that I've gone about thinking this through. And that's really what led me to create the technique. And I now call future pace, which is a way of looking towards the future that you want to have writing it down as if it's already true, and doing that in a very organised and structured way. And so that was the birth of future baseman back in 1988. And I tested the idea, about a year later, I've been invited by the management team, or local further education college in Manchester, to do some teamwork with them, because there was a new act created by the government called the Education Reform Act. And one of the edicts in his act was that all colleges around the country would produce a three year development plan. And they had to produce this plan that's submitted to the government. And they would all operate from this plan. So this group needed help with doing this, because the vice principal who invited me to talk to him about it said, Look, we have a group of 11, heads of department, all of whom are meant to help us run in this college, but all of whom refused to be in the room together, because professional jealousies and all kinds of stuff. So we need your help in bringing them together and getting them to cooperate. And so my first thought was, well tell you what, let's not suggest we're going to build them as a team then because you know what they're gonna say. And so we offered them this idea where you're being tasked to create a three year development plan for this College, what would it be like if you could come for a day and find a really brilliant way of imagining you've already created this plan, and to build it from the inside out. And there's a very interesting new methods that you could use to do this. And it was amazing. They all turned up what was really extraordinary. And this really what fixed future basing in my mind as something significant was at the end of that day, after pretending to be friends and pretending to have done a really brilliant job over three years, they were actually so fired up, they really were becoming friends. And they were going out like almost like Tweedledum and treated them peers saying, What have you done to us today, Bill, we've just totally changed the way we feel. And we're all going down to the pub where you come with us, we're going to have a drink and celebrate what a nice day. And I thought there's something very, very interesting going on here how computer basing this technique of imagining you're all working in the future be so powerful to shift these people like this polling marker. And that was really the spark that led me to develop it further. So when I went to this, and worked for this consulting company, one of the early things I did was tell my colleagues about this methodology developed and they fell in love with it. And so we started training everyone in all the other consultants in their various offices that we have around the country or in Northern Ireland. So future basically became established. In those days, I started to write articles about it to explain it. That's really the origins of the future.

: Tell us about how you got to apply this methods to the Red Cross.

:? Oh, yes. Well, because I'd been trained by Dec McCann in how to influence others at work, the company that he owned, which had an office in the UK, New York, was running a programme of training people in that to do this Indyk McCann will come over at least once a year to run this programme. And this particular year, he was unable to get across from Australia. So he said to the managing director of the company at the time, Look, why don't you ask Bill Phillips who he'll do it because he's one person I know could do it as well as I could. And I really trusted him to do that. So they invited me to do that. Two of the people that were attending this, this training course, were the senior trainers in the International Red Cross in Geneva. And Dick McCann have become very interested in my future Bayesian method. In fact, he made it possible for me to publish the first article on it in those days, because Dick was interested in it and wanted to encourage me, I'd actually mentioned it in this training course, one of the Red Cross people, she said to me, listen, Bill, we have something happening in the Red Cross in about a month's time, and aren't just wondering, your method could be really, really powerful. And I think it would be ideal for that, would you be prepared to do some pro bono work for us? So I'll say, Yeah, sure. That's, that's not be a privilege. I was invited across to Geneva, I'm met Undersecretary that there were three under secretaries. There was a secretary general and three in the executive team. And then there were several heads of departments. What I did was I spent Friday and Saturday interviewing several of these people saying, what is actually going to be happening on Sunday, and they said, Well, we're all coming together. They're about 50 people from around the world. Many of them presidents of national societies, or chief executives, Secretary General, Secretaries General from their national societies in their countries, and they're coming together to create a vision for the worldwide Red Cross movement is the vision for where we are at the end of 2010. Because we need to develop what we call our 10 year strategic plan. We call it strategy 2010. And this was in 97. So I went across and had these interviews, and the one person I had not met yet was the Secretary General, the boss himself. So I met him late on Sunday night, about seven o'clock we would do to start just after seven. So he met me his big man, you know, shook my hand said, Okay, so tell me the bill. I don't know who you are, don't know where you're from, but what are you going to do for us? So I said, Well, here's the plan. And they said, no, no, no, no, I don't want a bloody training course, I'd want to have a conversation with these people to come to an idea of, I said, I do understand that very well said, and what I would say to you is 50, people can't have a conversation unless it's managed in some way. Or one of the best ways to start a manage conversation is to have a structure. So what I'm proposing to you is a structure, it's a structured way of thinking, and I know it can work with a big group of people. So said, Okay, explain your structure. And he kept interrupting me, and I said, Look, you won't let me finish a sentence. This is your show. You're the boss. I'm here. I'm happy to offer my services. But it's your show. Why don't we because we had five minutes before we do to begin. If you have doubts, I'm sorry about that. I want to allay those fears if I can, but why don't we just get started? And if there's anything I do or say that you're not happy with? You can either say to me, Bill, stop there. I want you to change it. Or you can try now. What do you think he said, Okay, how well, we shook hands on that and started the process. We had 50 people in the room, imagining what the world would be like with the wreck. was doing a fabulous job at the end of the year 2010. And we use future basing to structure and organise that thing. And they worked so very, very well. But at the end of that couple of days, I had to go, they had one more day together, I had to leave to go back to the contract in the UK, somebody said to me, Look, there's been an advisory commission meeting every year for about 15 years, trying to create an agreement and failing every single time just watching you do this with this group of people, I'm absolutely certain that it will work for them, are you free to come over and do that, and he happens to be on my birthday, the second of June in that year. So I went across the mantra or group of 30 people, again, mixture of presidents and chief executives of national societies or other very senior people. And they were two groups in this room, really one group was the International Committee of the Red Cross, the ICRC, which is the original Red Cross organisation, Swiss organisation, the other group of people were from the Federation of all the national societies around the world. And so the International Federation of the Red Cross is a different outfit from the International Committee of the Red Cross the two different organisations, which cooperate together. And they were trying to create an agreement between them about what happens when there's a war going on the International Committee of the Red Cross, or they're monitoring the warring factions of following Geneva Conventions and protecting prisoners of war time. And let's suppose there's a flood or an earthquake or tsunami, who's in charge, because normally in those disastrous situations, it's the Federation of societies that get resources and get money together and rush out the emergency and set up treatment programmes and so on. When there's a war going on. That's not that simple. So who's in charge. And so they were trying to create an agreement about who would lead in those multiple disaster situations with my facilitation of just one night, one day, they managed to create that when in fact, what I was shocked about was everything written as their vision, the agreement itself. So they created the agreement by creating a vision for an agreement, so to speak, and that was ratified in Seville that year. And so the International Red Cross has a document or a protocol, which is called the Seville agreement, which is their system of leadership, organising leadership in those multiparty disaster situations. I'm very proud of that, because that's quite unique, is one of the most important protocols that is continues to be updated and is still followed, operated one of their major operating systems in the International Red Cross. So that's how future boating got involved. What was nice about that course was that created such a big impression that I ended up having about five years worth of follow up projects with working in many, many teams have worked with teams and groups, outfits, some of them in the Red Cross, over a number of years in many different countries, and sometimes in Spanish as well. So again, I was building my expertise with working with teams over almost times, and facilitation of large group discussions. And of course, as the coaching world had developed to become more organised, I also started training coaches, or training managers and team leaders, as coaches in the early 1990s. When I was working at this consulting company, that's really that's where my kit bag started to expand and grow with all these multiple and multinational experiences. So up till now, I've worked in I think, 17 or 18 countries and coached people in most of those many, many cultures, many languages with any challenges, it continues to be that way. And I love it. That's the kind of rambling account of how I scrambled my way to it shows you how powerful this feature basing is the fact that it took a day and a night for this to happen. Is that when quite regularly with when you start introduces to some of the clients you've worked with in the past, and at the moment, well, yeah, because I mean future by saying really, when I look back on most of the work I've done, future basing has filtered into much of that work, because it's such a useful pattern of thinking too. I remember one piece of work I was I was asked to work with a team working for big systems. This team just had, I think their second meeting and I was asked Bill, could you come and help us cohere this team? Because this team needs to gel and come together very quickly, because the project they have is very challenging. And we know that you have the kind of skill that could help us do that. I met this team of people, there are about 17 of them, I think in this team that just finished our second meeting. I knew some of the people because I've worked with them in various training programmes, especially when I was training coaches. Some of them had been on those programmes. So I had a level of familiarity with people and over dinner that night chatting informally. I really got a measure because I was actually working already. I wasn't just chatting as a measure of whether we're up to in terms of the way a group develops. And so I started to plan my strategy for the following day by these kind of informal conversations. I chose to do something which I do when I'm working with Conflict Resolution, that's an area that I have a method for, which is very powerful. And so I've worked with this group of people, I asked them to divide in their various factions, if you like, because many of them were saying, you know, the trouble is Wayne is a great bloke, he really knows his stuff, but he will agree to something in the team. And then he goes off and does his own thing and sound. So she just denies everything and thinks she's in charge. She's the only one we've got ideas. So there were these things going on. And I'm thinking, okay, so I got them to break up into their various groups, then what their job was to say to all the others in the room, this is what we need from you to be able to operate effectively. Here, the listeners were only allowed to listen, they weren't allowed to explain deny, apologise, or excuse themselves, they could just ask questions for clarification. And so in the end, each group had the opportunity to say, here's what I need from all of you. Because the people would repeat back to them, until they got it right about what they'd asked for this a very powerful way of bringing people together and helping them really here. And then straight out of there, I did a future basing process and said, Look, this project finishes in July, we're in April, now, something like that. Let's go just beyond the end of July. And what you're looking at is a project that's really worked, what's the day, you know, what are you been successful at in the creation and the completion of this project. So they fixed on a date, and they started to generate a number of categories in which they've been successful. And now said, Well, all I want you to do now is in each of these categories, I'm going to give you a set of instructions. And I want you to follow those instructions, and populate each of those categories with your specific achievements on this project. And what was nice was, I mean, there were other things that went on. But fundamentally, they met the project requirements before in fact, a few days before, they weren't really do well within their budget. And they were very happy with that. And so as a result, the the Saudi Arabian Air Force bought 40 Euro fighter, and this was the commercial team whose job it was to get that contract signed, it's fairly important project for VA systems and for employment in general. There was another one that's been with the Red Cross, which was a conflict situation, there were two teams in the International Federation. And these two teams were the disaster relief health teams, and their health development capacity building team, which was responsible for the national societies, when there's a disaster like an earthquake or a flood or something like that disaster relief team would rush out and set things up. And they would set up collars stations, and basically deal with the emergency situation until it could be brought to a level of stability, and then the National Society and those around, would then gradually take over responsibility. And the two teams were meant to cooperate for a number of years, they've been at war with one another and not cooperating. And this was not only becoming a problem in real on the ground situations, but it was becoming embarrassing the Secretary General of the Federation, and he wanted this conflict resolved. So someone said, Bill Phillips, he's the man, which I was very flattered by and I went across, and somebody said to me, I heard you're going to be working with health teams, can I give you a word of advice? If you value your reputation, don't do it. Because I'm sorry, they're so entrenched, that's not going to happen. So I said, well, thank you for that. I really appreciate that. Unfortunately, I've already said yes, so I'm gonna do it anyway, I have a method of picking my work, they locked us up in a hotel. In fact, in deep snow, it got buried in deep snow in the mountains, with a fabulous view of of Mont Blanc, the opposite side of the country. And we were there for three days locked in, we couldn't get out, even if we wanted to. And we had to come out with a result. And on the final day, we did a future basically, where I said, Look, I want you all to imagine that it's six months time, and all of what we were here for is behind you now. And things are operating Absolutely, stunningly well. So come on, let's come up with a date, we came up with a date created these categories. And then they weren't clearly in the course all the time. Up until then they they were saying, When are we going to be in the room together and have the argument? I said, yeah, yeah, we'll get to that. But let's do this first. And so we were doing a number of these manoeuvres which are used to gradually get people to really listen to one another and hear what the others are saying. And some of the time we came to doing a future vacation, they were primed and ready. And their future pacing was so powerful, they got so excited, they couldn't wait to get back to the organisation and announce, you know, this is the new face of their health teams. And this is how we work together. So skillfully and cooperatively from now. And so that's very pleasing result, funnily enough, about nine months later, they were disbanded and reformed into a new team, which was one single team and one leader, which is what they've been proposing right at the beginning when they were still at war. Each of them said, we just need one team not to so we don't need the others you need our team and the other sentence. So very interesting development, future based in the help as people get to there and get to that level of excitement about new ways to operate. That's how I know it's such a powerful process.

: Sounds like it is a very powerful process. We have the virus at the moment the Coronavirus, but is there any way that could change your base thinking good decision to do this at the moment?

: Well, it will probably need to be with particular groups who are going to create something. So it might be a particular team that's responsible for something, it might be a particular department or group who, at the moment challenge is that we can't really bring people together safely and future. But it definitely works when people are all together in the room most powerful in that way. Because you have the collective thinking you have the energy and so on. But you know that there's there's a group of people here who are very, very interested in changing the landscape of homelessness, for example, we're proposing doing a future based in process to help us develop a vision for that project that could end homelessness in Iran. And so quite recently, we were having a virtual meeting, mapping out what's the structure of future basing? And how are we going to apply it? So that's one way we will be applied to developing that with it Coronavirus. The interesting thing is, of course, the big thing on everyone's mind is fear. There's fear that I might get infected or that my loved ones might become infected. And then what, that's the very real fear for many people. And of course, all the arrangements that are being made to keep us safe, you know, isolation, staying indoors, keeping a distance from other people, is just feeding that fear and exaggerating it. And so, you know, my heart goes out to people that are struggling with that fear that what if I die? What if something goes wrong? And so on? What I would say is all the time that you're thinking about that you're not dead, you're still here. And so what would it be like if you could imagine, a few months time when this has passed, and you think I've learned a lot from what I've gone through in the last month. What I've learned is precious, and it's going to be with me for the rest of my life. One thing I know is I know how to look after myself, I know how to calm my nerves. I know how to recognise when I'm worrying about something that hasn't even happened yet. So that's one way that people can begin to shift their thinking and other area courses, people who've lost their jobs or people whose businesses can't operate in this environment. And their mind starts going to Well, what if I can't pay my bills? What if my business fails? What if? What if, what if, and, again, the number one thing that we need to do is to protect ourselves and stay well and stay stable for that very destabilising that way of thinking. And so people can recognise, for example, that right now, I don't have full control over everything. I have control over some things, I have choices about something, what can I choose? What can I do? And how can I keep myself thinking positively and thinking? Well, so many people have immediately, for example, started putting their work on social media on platforms like zoom, and Skype, and, and so on, then they're running webinars and doing talks, and so on. And I think all of those things are valuable contributions to society, to help people use future basing, if people imagine a future that they want to have, but think about it as if they already have it. So you think of a specific end date. So you might say it's three months time, it's June, the 14th, or something like that. And then so what am I successful, what am I happy about now, and you come up with a number of categories for that success. So it might be being healthy, it might be having enough money might be keeping my children, so whatever, whatever those headaches are. And then in each of those categories, you describe what specifically in this area of IoT, and you write it as if it's already true. So you write it in present tense language, and as if it's real, so that when you read everything you've written, what you've got is a picture of your ideal outcome, as if it's already really, and this has a very interesting effect on the unconscious, It tunes it to noticing opportunities to get. And so people could do that simply. And that will be a very powerful way, I do have a guide for that on my website. And people could take a look at the website, and they could purchase that guide. In fact, what I think I might do is allow people to get that guide for free for the next three months. So although it says on the on the web page, that it cost 23 euros, if anyone applies for that sends me an email to say I would like a copy, I will send them a copy and I won't charge for the next three months. And that way people could follow that guide and do their own future, future writing for their families as well. Bill

: if someone met you on on the street today, and they said, Bill, if there was one piece of jam or advice that you could give me what would it be?

: Well, it's certainly about protecting yourself. And it's certainly about, you know, the toughest challenge most of us have is to actually we can look at other people and admire them. We could love other people and we could care for them. We can do things to help them. We can do things to please them and get enormous satisfaction out of doing that. If we can learn to do all those things for ourselves as if we are another person to be kind to be thoughtful, to give ourselves presents to really care about our own well being And our own happiness, I would say that 99% of people actually find that almost impossible to do. Much of what I'm doing these days is helping people discover how to do that. So how to take care of yourself how to love yourself. In fact, there's a little book, which I've been telling a number of people about, and I think it's a superb book, for motivating yourself and learning how to love yourself. And it's a book called Heart Talk, Heart Talk, and it's by a young American woman called Cleo Wade, WA D, Heart Talk by Cleo Wade. And this book has on each double page spread a theme or topic, which is about caring for yourself without feeling good. And what I do with this little book is, each morning, I put the bookmark in at a random place. And every morning first thing when I wake up, I open the book at that page or read it and just absorb it. And then I put it in another page. And then when I go to bed at night, I open it and read it just before I go down, like that sleep. And I find that keeps me energised and positive. And even though you know, despite the time has been very, very scary and unpredictable at the moment. I'm still here. I'm still healthy. I'm still well, I'm still eating in this moment. Now. I can get worried about next week and next month, but I choose not to because I think well I'm perhaps not even here yet. So stay in the present. And be kind to yourself. That's that's the advice, I guess.

: I want to say it's been a pleasure chatting with you and hearing your story, your knowledge and experience. And thank you so much.

: I'm delighted, delighted there and thank you for asking those very few questions you did that prompted such an outpouring. It's very nice to be able to speak about those things and I hope it's valuable to people who are listening to this.