If only we could get in front of the right decision maker.....

Have you ever said, or heard someone say "if only we could get in front of the right executive we'd sell a lot more"? Or "we just need more meetings" or "we want to get in front of the CXX"?

I've heard dozens or hundreds of sales executives and sales leaders say that kind of thing. And for a long time I believed them. I thought getting meetings was the hard part.

I was wrong. And in most cases so were they.

I've since realised that the majority of salespeople wouldn't know how to conduct an effective sales meeting with a senior executive if they had each step written for them in blazing flames and had a producer giving them instructions.

That's not just my experience - Forrester research found that 85% of sales meetings fail to meet their expectations of buyers while CEB found 86% of salespeople fail to competitively differentiate.

(Thanks to Tony J Hughes for those stats from his book "Combo Prospecting")

Once upon a time I used to help my clients schedule meetings with "C" Level executives in the naive belief they would know how to make those meetings a success. It wasn't until I saw how they were throwing those opportunities away that I realised they needed just as much help preparing for, conducting and following up on those initial meetings - which is why I now cover all of the above.

In my experience - and that of far, far too many prospects - a sales meeting often turns into a "show up and throw up" session.

So recently I asked for volunteers for me to do an online "discovery" meeting with, me in the role of salesperson and them in the unfamiliar role as prospect. (But of course, we're all someone's prospect aren't we?)

Shari Lueck of Flex Technology Group was gracious enough to volunteer and also to allow me to record our session. For good or bad, here's an unedited* example of an initial sales meeting that focuses on learning about the customer while (hopefully) providing value and differentiating myself based on the quality of my questioning rather than just doing a dump of my services.

(*I tidied up a few ums and aahs and fixed some stuff the transcriber couldn't pick up but there's a link to the audio recording in the first comment in the unlikely event you want to listen to me talk for 43 minutes)

This was unplanned & unscripted so I'd be very interested in your feedback and criticism about it.

Whatever I got right and wrong, you'll notice that 95% of the conversation was about Shari & her company and objectives and only 5% about me and what I do.

You'll also see that she talked a lot more than I did - which was one of my objectives.

There's a lot I didn't do - like following a framework, setting up a short term contract, closing, etc. - because my focus was on understanding Sheri's situation and hopefully offering something of value myself. I wonder how I went.

By the way - I'd be grateful if you'd "like" this (assuming you do like it), share it (if you believe it merits sharing) and of course I'll answer all questions, comments and criticism below.

And I have some questions for you.

1. If you were Sheri would you think I provided value during the meeting?
2. Would you think I differentiated myself from my competitors (other executive sales coaches)?
3. Did YOU find it valuable
4. I have a number of standard questions and approaches I use. Can you spot any of them?

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Steve

Okay, Shari. Great to talk to you. Thanks for agreeing to help me do a... I guess, it's the equivalent of a discovery. Well, I'm the sales guy and you're the prospect. It's a bit of reversal of roles in a way. How does that feel, to be on the receiving side for a change?

Shari                       

Oh, well, it's always fun to sold to by a talented salesperson.

Steve

I'll search around and see if I can find you one.

So, Sheri, obviously I've done a bit of research, I think I understand a bit about what you do. From what I can see, your organization is a pretty big national organization in the US. In terms of actual products you sell managed print services, but from the perspective of the value you add, you provide advice and insight into what the benefits are of managing your customers print services well and what the consequences are of not doing that correctly. Is that fair, or did I get that totally wrong?

Shari

I think you're close. So, we do managed print services, and we are nationwide, we're actually the largest, fastest-growing, privately held managed print company in the United States.

Steve                          

That's pretty impressive.

Shari

It's interesting. One of the reasons that we are in that position is through consultative and strategic focus. We meet with C-suite professionals to discuss long term strategy, but we prove Day One ROI and I don't think anybody else out there, that is in our similar business, does that.

Steve

Okay, a couple of questions. First of all, what's your role specifically? And secondly, what you’ve done sound great, how do you do that? What's your approach?

Shari

Sure. So, my role today is as a national enterprise account executive, and our approach is, we work with the largest companies there are, that have... We specialize with multiple locations. Because whenever you have multiple locations, and you have a large business, oftentimes the infrastructure is mismanaged. And not by any fault of the CIOs, or IT, but simply because of the demand and diversity. Especially today with so many acquisitions and mergers taking place, people often have several systems they're running, to coordinate together.

Steve

Absolutely. And human beings have this horrible habit of not being very consistent, don't they?

Shari

I have no idea what you're talking about. (Laugh)

Steve

So, when you say you are a national account manager, does that mean you look after a number of national accounts, or have I got that wrong?

Shari

Yes. Everything that I actually focus on, right now, is net new, which is really interesting. But one of the unique propositions that we do at Flex, is that our focus is not on the sale, okay. So, you were asking earlier, and maybe this will help you. I'm going to say every other managed print company I know, and I know most of them, not all of them because there's a whole lot of them out there, but I know the big ones especially the larger OEM manufacturers that offer that and also the dealers, right. So, those companies are all focused on selling hardware. Their model is you come in, you sell some hardware, you sign a lease and then three or five years they come back to try to do something else.

Well, we are not like that. We don't focus on the hardware. We actually focus on the process. We are not incentivized to sell hardware, we are incentivized to keep the customer as long as we work there, right. And then obviously that's a long time. People have a lot of longevity, because we are truly involved in their processes and we will actually show them every 90 days how to lower their spend, whereas the other people in the space are really not interested in it. They're interested in a quick sale.

Steve

Yeah, absolutely. Well this conversation is in a context of selling at C-level, and it sounds to me your approach is the sort of approach that C-level executives want rather than just this set and forget and sell you and load you up as much as possible and move on to the next one. It sounds to me like your approach is tied to your success.

Shari

We have to, yeah, to get the... I think the biggest challenge in my space, probably any space, is just getting the audience.

Steve

Absolutely. So, what are your targets? You're saying national account but are we talking every organization of a particular size in US, or what are your criteria for an ideal client?

Shari

So, probably ten million dollars or above. And multiple locations. I focus on retail, healthcare and hospitality.

I have a very specialized bit in the healthcare, so I really understand interoperability and compliance issues as well as protecting health information. And, unfortunately, most of the decision makers are spread so thin today in the healthcare space, because of the ever widening spectrum of compliance and issues that they need to work on, that they're missing the most obviously place and that's what I deal with.

Steve

Okay. How many accounts would you have in your patch?

Shari

Well, I probably can't manage more than 200 very effectively.

Steve

That's a really good answer, because there are probably thousands. But what you said is... Most people don't understand is it’s ok to have a market that's thousands or tens of thousands of companies, but there's a limit on how many you can manage at any one time. So, the question then becomes, how do you choose those 200?

Shari

So sometimes they choose me.

Steve

That's always good. Or is it? Are the ones that choose you the ones you the ones you really want to deal with?

Shari

Well, obviously, right, you want to... Business is a partnership and people buy from people and the more you can know about your customer, the better partner you can be. And so, I would much rather focus on a smaller group and be elbows in and knee deep in the water with them so that I can really help affect their business and help them to satisfy their goal. But also so that they know who they can contact and what my goals are. There should be a line.

Steve

Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. So, you said you focus on net new business, does that mean you hand an organization over to someone else when you sign them or do you stay with them?

Shari

No. I'm actually growing a new territory or a new landscape for us here in the nation. So we have a few accounts in my area, but there's not really been somebody local to really be able to take care of them, so I'm trying to do something a little more geographic than we've done before.

Steve

Okay, so you're signing new accounts and then you're maintaining the relationship with them as through the lifetime of your relationship, which hopefully is a long time?

Shari

Yeah. Correct.

Steve

Okay. That's actually a model I used to do and I rather like that model. It removes the temptation for people to over promise, to under deliver and to just sell and move on.

Shari

Yes. That gives sales reps a bad rep.

Steve

Absolutely it does. So other than when they approach you, how do you... If you say, "Okay, I can handle 200 accounts any one time," and putting aside the ones that come to you because of your reputation or because they know someone, how do you choose the ones that you focus on and how do you approach them?

Shari

That's good. Obviously there are different resources to get criteria on companies. I focus on very specific locations for the people that meet my criteria. I focus on 30 or 40 executive level contacts over a period of about eight weeks so that I can truly work the contact. I'm not looking for massive response. I'm not making hundreds of calls a day.

Steve

And who are the people you approach? Is it CIO, is it CEO, or someone else?

Shari 

CIO, CEO or CFO.

Steve

So, you've got a typical account... You say, "okay, this healthcare group is headquartered in the region that I focus on and they're the type of company I'd like to do business with." What's your approach to get to see the appropriate people in that account?

Shari

Obviously you need... I say obviously but maybe it's not so obvious, right? I highly believe in contact marketing. I think I just come up with a creative way to take it to the next level, which I'm not going to share with you.

Steve

Fair enough.

Shari

But we do a combination of things. We do email, phone calls, we use LinkedIn and we use Vidyard, we send video messages as well.

Steve

Okay. So, what's the message that you're sending? Obviously all of those are different ways of communicating a message, what's the typical message you send when you're approaching someone?

Shari

The typical message that we're sharing is that we have ways to free up significant amounts of money and increase cashflow, solve real business problems, improve security, lower risks, and provide transparency and data, that probably are not accessible today, as well as improve interoperability across lines. So, we can really show a way to not only reduce waste, but improve your processes.

Steve

Okay. Great message, a bit broad. I mean, you cover an awful lot of stuff there.

Shari

It is.

Steve

And what's your strike rate. If you want to get into an organization, how successful are you at getting to the people you want to get to?

Shari

Oh, I think, on an average, maybe one out of ten.

Steve

Right. So, what do you think is preventing the other nine speaking to you? I know one would be they're just flat-out busy, but what else you think would be the reason that you're not getting to the ones you'd like to get to?

Shari

I think maybe I could probably simplify it to two things. One, you just can't reach them, for whatever reason, nothing is different enough. My space is highly competitive. I think if you were to look at anything... I think what happens is they think there's a... when people think about the industry, they may think about toner supplies, copiers and printers. And that's not my business. Okay. But oftentimes that's what people think, so that takes a bit of education to show that there are other things involved and we don't focus on that.

So, I think that's one thing. I think one is maybe a misunderstanding of what it is we do and how we provide a solution for the customer. I think the other is just lack of access.

Steve

Okay. And by lack of access you mean you just can't get a message to them?

Shari

Yeah, the message, for whatever reason. They're not interested and they tend to want to push it down to a lower supply level, a procurement level or an IT level. And really, those folks, while they're so great at their jobs, they're not looking for strategy conversations, they're looking at cost.

Steve

Of course. You need to talk strategy with the people that think strategy.

Shari

Yes. And we are strategic in our approach. That's really part of our message is before we can even decide if you'll be... You asked me, "How do I choose a customer?" Our strategy has to align with theirs, because we're strategic. We're not selling a product, we're selling a solution.

Steve

Okay. How closely do you match the message to the prospect?

Shari

Well, we try to cater at each time individually.

Steve

Because the thing... I mean you know what I'm going to tell you, right? So, I'm preaching the obvious. But even though a company may have a hundred or a thousand challenges they're facing, they can only really focus on half a dozen at any one time. So, while you might identify an issue that is important to them, it's not a priority for them.

Shari

Correct.

Steve

And I guess part of the way of getting through is identifying what's in their current mindset and their current priority and getting them to think, "Hey, just maybe these people can help me. I should talk to them."

Shari

That is the biggest challenge I have.

Steve

How do you approach that? I mean, you've got a... Give me an example. Don't name names, but give me an example of a type of organization that you'd like to try to get to, but you haven't been able to for whatever reason.

Shari

Well, I was speaking with a CIO today of a rather large hospital chain and they have multiple clinics and it's just, "Right now," he says, "this isn't a priority to look at." They have so many other things having to do with compliance and onboarding and PHI and ransomware and all these things, and well, yes, what I do absolutely should be integrated into that. Basically you get the brush off. And quite frankly, that's probably my biggest challenge.

Steve

So, is the CIO the right person to speak to about this?

Shari

Yep.

Steve

I mean-

Shari

Or a CEO. Sometimes not, okay, sometimes the CIO is not. But regardless, it's typically the biggest challenge that we have the hardest time overcoming.

Steve

It's simply, "It's not our priority."

Shari

Yep. They just can't see why it should be at their level and not at a procurement standpoint and dealing with it from a cost and numbers standpoint, because that's the way they've always done it. They're not really interested in anything differently. And that the biggest challenge. Smart ones are. I'm not going to sit here and name names-

Steve

Of course not, no.

Shari

But we have some of the most well known, not only national brands, but global brands anybody's ever heard of, in our purview because they do get it.

Steve

Right. I mean you wrote an article on LinkedIn... your recent article LinkedIn about the ability of people to see patient data due to not updating firmware on printers.

Shari

Correct. And that is one of the most challenging things to me and when I find absolutely head scratching... I mean it is just a knocker to me... I don't know the way you take that in Australia, but it's really just shocking that people, especially the people who can make a difference, they just don't care, because they feel like it's worth the chance. Well, they might not care but we sure care.

Steve

Yeah, well, I mean... I guess the question is, is there anyone in the organization that does care? Is the chief risk officer involved in that sort of thing?

Shari

Yeah, so often the compliance officer is who you want to have involved in the conversation. And even they cannot force the issue because there are so many blurry lines around compliance, that they don't want to push the limits either.

Steve

What would be the effect on the organization as a whole if patient records were accessed and if that became known into the press?

Shari

Yeah, well, if that became known into the press... And this is one of the things I ask the prospects that I talk is, "Have you thought about the other side of it?" Because, well, right now it might not be a priority, it ends up... Well, look, just last month, three hospitals in Alabama had to close because of a ransomware attack and they got in through their printer.

Steve

Yes, that to me, would be something that would be a CEO issue.

Shari

Right. It absolutely is. But oftentimes what happens... and this is quite perplexing to me is, you can have that conversation with them and they will actually say, "Well, that's why I have CISO."

Steve

Right.

Shari

Right. But they are not focusing on this and so really we should have a 15 minute conversation to talk about strategy and what we can do and let's see if maybe we can help them with their priorities. Because we can really take this off of somebody's shoulders.

Steve

Well, that's the thing. It seems to me that if they identify it as a problem and say, "Well, look, it's a problem but we have other priorities." You have the ability to say that's no problem. We can do it for you with relative ease and so you can continue focusing on the other areas and leave that to us.

Shari

Right.

Steve

So, is it access to the right people that's preventing you doing that, or is it the people just not being prepared to take it on.

Shari

I think it's a little of both.

Steve

Okay. Going from another perspective... I don't know what you call them now... Is it... A 4041K it's like a pension thing isn't it? What you call the annual report?

Shari

An annual report. (note - this made me laugh)

Steve

Oh don't you... I thought it was something else you had to put into the SCE that...

Shari

No.

Steve

Okay. So, you get an annual report. An annual report obviously identifies the key priorities from a CEO and chairman's perspective every year. I know this is an incredibly broad question, but how easy it is to link what you're doing with what their priorities are?

Shari

So, we often try when it's a public company and we have access to them, right?

The challenge has come where it's not. But it's fairly easy because there's usually growth or risk mitigation or savings. Those three are often in there and we cover all of those.

Steve

Okay. I mean to be honest, without getting involved in the depths of your... I won't say your value proposition, because you've got a variety of value propositions. And from my perspective, the value proposition depends upon the client rather than upon the company. In other words, the value to one company is very different to... From what you do is very different to the value of another company. It's a question of matching what you do to what they want rather than vice versa. It seems like you obviously do a pretty good job of that.

You seem to be doing a lot of the right things. When I talk to someone I normally say to them, "Okay, who do you focus on?" And they say, "Well, anyone." And I explain to them how they can only really handle a certain amount of organizations any one time and you're already doing that. And then we talk about how to get their message to people. I've certainly got ways of helping people get a message to CEOs, so that you've got a much better chance of getting to see them. And I talk about adapting their message to what their priorities are rather than vice versa, rather than saying, "This is what we've got. Here are our benefits." Say, "You care about this. This is how we can help you."

And you seem to be doing all of that, so I guess the question is, if there were one thing that I could wave a magic wand and fix, what would it be?

Shari

Getting the right people's attention more often.

Steve

Okay. And by the right people you mean the CEOs?

Shari

Yes.

Steve

Okay. Let's take a hypothetical example, you said healthcare. Again, you said this is hospitals?

Shari

Sure.

Steve

And they tend to be... I suppose, no, there are hospital groups that span states aren't there. So, you got a hospital group that owns 10 hospitals in... I don't know, a couple of states.

Shari

In the Midwest.

Steve

In the Midwest. Okay. And you want to talk to the CEO. I know from experience that CEOs of major hospitals are quite hard to reach in the States because they've got a lot on their plates, especially with current political trends.

Shari

Yes.

Steve

So, you want to get a message to them and you said you've got ways of getting that message to them. What's the basic content of that message? I know we've sort of asked this, but let's dig into it a bit deeper. You've identified who the top two or three people are in an organization you want to get to, you're sending them a message, you've got your own ways of getting that message to them, what's your objective in that message? What are you trying to achieve first up?

Shari

I think a couple of things. I think one is that we want to talk about how cost reduction comes with long term strategy and... Oh, what's my objective? I'm sorry, let me go back. So, my objective is really to get a 10 or a 15 minute meeting, really to see if our long-term strategy aligns with theirs, where we can promise them Day One ROI that can dramatically affect both their budgets, so they can reinvest into their patients and their providers. But also, we can virtually eliminate risk with PHI exposure.

Steve

And is that what your message says more or less?

Shari

Yes.

Steve

Okay. My suspicion is that you're trying to do too much with that message.

Shari

Okay. So what might you say?

Steve

I would be looking at what their key priorities are. Assuming we can get the information either by looking at their annual report or if you can't have access to that, maybe doing some research with the people further down the organization to understand what their top three priorities are, I would be simply saying, "In your annual report you said your most important priority is X. We can help you do X as we do with these other organizations. Can we talk?"

Simple as that.

Shari

Okay.

Steve

You see, because we know our own area so well, and because we understand the benefits of what we offer, it's very tempting to over explain. But we need to realise that even when you get your message to someone, they're not going to be sitting down, looking at it and thinking, "Okay, let me fully absorb and understand this message." They're more likely to just glance at it. And therefore you have to get your point across really, really concisely.

And because they get these messages from anyone that wants to sell them anything, you're not just competing with other managed print vendors, you're competing with anyone that wants a slice of their time. You've got to give them a reason why they should give you 10 minutes of their time rather than the chairman, or the shareholders or the board or their direct reports or their peers or their customers or existing suppliers or anyone of the thousand other people who wants to sell them stuff. Why should they give you 10 minutes of their time rather than anyone else?

And therefore they're looking, whether consciously or unconsciously, they're looking for reasons to disqualify you. The more you tell, the more you give them reasons to say, "No, we've got one of those." Or "That's not a priority." Or, "Hey, I can't be bothered to read this." Does that make any sense?

Shari

Yes.

Steve

Because if you go to someone and say, "Look, I'd like to talk to you because we can do this and this and this and we want to align our strategy and we want to do this and that and that." It’s a bit overwhelming. It's very easy to just ignore it. If you go to someone and say, "Your top priority is X, and we can help you do X and let's talk." And they don't get back to you, they don't respond, it doesn't resonate, you've also got Y and Z to go back and talk about. So you're not firing all your shots from one barrel. That's a really bad analogy, isn't it?

Shari

No, I understand it.

Steve

The first thing is to get a message to them in such a way that they will pay attention and you know they're going to pay attention. And the second is to make that message short enough to make them think, "Maybe this person can help me. It's worth investing 10 minutes of my time to talk to them, to see if they can help me."

So, you want to make them curious and you want to make them think potentially they're missing out by not talking to you. You don't want to give them too much because the more you give them, the more chances are they'll say, "Oh, no, they're just another managed print vendor."

Shari

Right. I understand that.

Steve

Now, having said that, of course, we have some challenges. Because anytime you contact anyone senior and ask for a meeting, someone is going to check you out on LinkedIn or look at your website or both. So what you tell them has to be consistent with your public persona on social media, for instance.

Shari

Right.

Steve

If your website says, "Hi, we sell printers," and you're calling up and saying, "Oh, hi, we can help you manage your X problem," there's a bit of a mismatch there. You may want to have a place that you send them to, maybe if you send them a message you say, "If you want more information, go here." You want to create a 'here' that backs up that message.

Shari

Right. Okay.

Steve

Does that make sense?

Shari

Yeah, that's really good.

Steve

As I mentioned, on your LinkedIn profile, one of the articles that you wrote was a very good article about the challenges of assessing patient data. I think another one you wrote was the fact that a certain percentage of ransomware attacks coming through printers with firmware that isn't up to date.

Shari

Correct, yeah. I talk a lot about what I know in that space.

Steve

And they are good messages, they're consistent with what you’re saying if you can send them to the right place.

If on the other hand they go to somewhere that says, "We work with Canon." Then it sort of dilutes your message.

Shari

Right.

Steve

They are the areas that I work with people and they are the areas where I help people to increase those odds from getting a meeting with one in ten to hopefully one in three, or one in two.

(Notice this is the first time I actually talk about my services)

Shari

Well, very good.

Steve

What are... I'm just trying to think. So, there's one issue of getting the meeting, the next question, when you're in the meeting, how does that meeting go typically?

Shari

Usually it goes quite well.

Steve

So the challenge isn't so much what happens when you get in front of people, it's what happens when... It's how you get in front of people.

Shari

Correct. I think that's the biggest challenge.

Steve

Yeah. Well, not necessarily. I mean, I did some work back with an organization who should be nameless, that wanted to get into finance companies here, Credit Unions, which are like your savings and loans, and regional banks. I got them a whole heap of meetings with senior executives in these banks, and then they go in and they start talking technology. And I'd say, "No, no, no. We got you in there to talk about helping them sign more home loan customers. You can't go in and start saying, 'We're in the top right hand corner of the Gartner quadrant,' because they wouldn't know what the Gartner quadrant is if it bit them." So, if you actually know what to do when you get in there, you're ahead of a lot of people.

Shari

Because we're trying to tie it to a message, right? So I'm looking right now at... I pulled up while we were talking, to see the annual report and it's really not a... of the person I spoke to today that really just threw me for a loop. Their annual report is not like a typical report, so I don't think it's something I could take. But if I look at their mission, vision and values, that's certainly something that I can speak to as well. And one of the things that's really important to them is to advance their knowledge and improve their practices, and certainly we can help them improve their practices in both clinical and non-clinical settings.

Steve

And that's probably a good message to get a meeting with the right person, but the right person in that particular case probably isn't the CIO.

Shari

No, not in this case.

Steve

Yeah. So, the person... I mean, that's assuming that companies live their values and mission because, sadly, a lot of them just put them up there to look nice and they don't actually follow them.

Shari

Right, I know. I was trying to just tie something together for our conversation.

Steve

But certainly if you go to the people at the top and say, "Look, your mission says you do A, B and C and we can help you do A. Can we talk? And we do that for other people like you. Can we talk?" I think you've got a better chance then.

Shari

I think so too. Well, we've been doing this 30 years and it's amazing how much there is to know.

Steve

Oh, gosh, yes. Let me ask you, do you sail?

Shari

No, but I have been sailing.

Steve

Okay. I don't either, but one thing I do know is that the hawsers, the ropes that they tie boats with, they're really big and thick aren’t they?

Shari

Yes.

Steve

When you're trying to get a line on shore or to another boat, you can't throw one of them because they're big and they're too heavy. So what you do, you tie a smaller rope to it and you tie a bit of string to that and you tie a rock to that and you throw the rock across and you gradually haul it until you get the big, thick hawser. And that's what it's like trying to get to an organization. You need to start with something really simple and then build up the message to bring in the complexity and to talk about strategy and all of those other things. But the initial approach has to be really simple and really focused and really small.

Shari

I see that.

Steve

Let me just think. I'm just thinking of your situation. The other thing here, of course... I mean, we've talked about the message. You've said that you've got ways of getting your message to people. There were many different ways... Well, how are you able to focus on referrals? In other words, do you have opportunities for referrals? And by referrals I don't mean-

Shari

So, personally I get quite a few through LinkedIn, believe it or not.

Steve

No, I believe it. The type of referral I'm talking about is not, "Oh, hello Mr Customer. I've done a great job for you, who else do you know?" It's, "Okay, I want to get to Mary, who's the CEO of this organization. Who do I know or who do other people in my organization know, that knows them, that I can use as a bridge?"

Shari

Yeah. Right now, for me personally, that's a little bit more challenging although I'm trying to do that a little bit more.

Steve

And why is it challenging?

Shari

I don't know very many people who know the people I need to know. I moved to an areas, so the tentacles are not so far reaching. And what's interesting is, through vehicles like LinkedIn, you can see your different level connections and who might know somebody and you're zoned to that.

Steve

That's right.

Shari

I reached out to four different people and you know that they all said, "I don't know them well enough to initiate."

Steve

Yeah, no. That's important. You need a bridge. It's like a ravine with a little island in the middle and you need a solid bridge to the island and another solid bridge to the other side.

Shari

Right now it's just not the best... It hasn't been the best thing for me right now although I won't give up.

Steve

What about other people in your organization?

Shari

Yes. They're part of what I'm talking about. Yeah. That's the first place to go, right?

Steve

Yes.

Shari

Always the first place to go. It's just I'm in a new area for my organization.

Steve

A new area as in new area of business or a new area geographically?

Shari

Geographically, and so there aren't a lot of contacts.

Steve

Okay. So, if you are looking at CEOs of hospitals, for instance, hospital groups, does your company have relationships with other CEOs of hospital groups in other parts of the country?

Shari

Yes. And we are leveraging those. I mean we support the CHIME Foundation which is a very big deal here and I'll be there in November. So, we do things that do give those personal handoffs.

Steve

And that's a great help. One of the best messages is, "Oh, hi, look, Bill Gates asked me to call you." Or someone they know and trust.

Shari

Right. I think I'll try that tomorrow. (laughs)

Steve

It sort of has to be true though.

Shari

I know.

Steve

Yeah. Okay. Well, look Shari, I really appreciate the conversation. You know what I do. I help people get those meetings. We've discussed some of the ways. What are your thoughts in terms of... First of all, how valuable has this conversation been? And secondly, would you see any value in us working together in the future?

Shari

I think it's a very valuable conversation. I think that it's definitely thought provoking and stimulating and I can see that your service is very, very much needed. It's amazing to me how many people really are focusing on this now. It's really become front and centre for progressive organizations and I think that they need a coach to teach their sales teams how to be effective not just spend their time.

Steve

Well, thank you. First of all, I appreciate you agreeing to let me record this, I guess this discovery discussion. One thing I would like to point out, not for you, but for people who read or listen to this, is that we've had a conversation that's lasted... I don't know what, half an hour? Probably a bit longer. 40 minutes? And during that conversation I talked about what I do for about... What? Two minutes? And we've talked about what you do for the vast majority and I suspect-

Shari

I think you've shown... So, we may not have talked about it, but I think you've demonstrated through your questioning skills.

Steve

And I suspect from what we've discussed that you do the same thing when you go and talk to your customers. Because you've hit the nail on the head there, when you ask the sort of questions that I've been asking you in relationship to what I do, and I'm sure when you ask your clients the sort of questions about what you do, you demonstrate expertise by the quality of the questions you ask, rather than by saying I'm great.

Shari

Yeah, I don't go in and give them a data dump. Yeah. No data dump.

Steve

Yeah, no, that's right. You can sort of dump data through asking intelligent questions which show that you've got a vague idea what you're talking about. One of the things I recommend to my clients when they're talking to a potential customer for the first time, is to sit down and put a lot of thought into the types of questions they ask. Not only to get the information they need, but to share their expertise and demonstrate their expertise by the quality of the questions they ask.

Shari

Right.

Steve

Shari, thank you very much. I'm going to stop recording now and then we'll have a quick chat afterwards.

Shari

Okay.

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As I said at the top I'd love your feedback - and I'd like to thank Shari, who was brilliant. I was very impressed by her professionalism and her understanding of her customers' business.

If you're a business in the Midwest of the USA give her a call.

If you want to meet a lot more C level executives and make sure the meetings are a success call me.

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