Nordstrom In A Sea Of Walmarts

Welcome to the Rialto Marketing podcast. Today's episode is a revenue acceleration series interview where we talk to seven figure B2B professional service firms that are actively trying to grow their business and get to the next level. We talk about the good, bad, and the ugly so you can learn from their experience.

Join?Tim Fitzpatrick?and?Craig Pollack?for this week’s episode of The Rialto Marketing Podcast!

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Nordstrom In A Sea Of Walmarts

Tim Fitzpatrick: Welcome to the Rialto Marketing podcast. Today's episode is a revenue acceleration series interview where we talk to seven figure B2B professional service firms that are actively trying to grow their business and get to the next level. We talk about the good, bad, and the ugly so you can learn from their experience. Hi, I am Tim Fitzpatrick with Rialto Marketing, where we believe you've got to remove your revenue roadblocks if you want to accelerate growth. I want to thank you so much for taking the time to tune in. I am super excited to have with me today, Craig Pollack from FPA Technology Services. Craig, welcome and thanks for being here.

Craig Pollack: Yeah, thanks for having me, Tim. I'm looking forward to this.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Yes, me too. I always learn things through these interviews, so I know people that are watching and listening will as well. You got a ton of experience to share. Before we jump into that, I want to ask you a few rapid fire questions. Are you good to go, Craig?

Craig Pollack: Hit me, I'm ready. Let's do it.

Tim Fitzpatrick

Very quickly, what do you do? How long have you been doing it?

Craig Pollack: Okay. Well, I am the founder and CEO of FPA Technology Services. Basically, we act as an outsourced IT department for small to midsize businesses. The unique thing about us is we're very boutique, very hands on, very client relationship driven professional services. What we like to say is we're a Nordstrom in a sea of Walmarts.

Tim Fitzpatrick: I love it. What's the most important lesson you've learned in running your business?

Craig Pollack: Wow. Probably the most important lesson is really getting along with people. Initially, and I've been doing this for a while, I started this, the firm in '91, so we're going on 32 years now. I like to say I started it when I was nine, but I'd be lying. But a lot of things have changed since then. I mean, at that point in time, there was no email, there was no Internet. You could have more monitor, any color you wanted, as long as it was orange or green. Getting back to your question, long winded answer. The thing that I've learned is really getting along with people, communicating, figuring out how to interact with people. Initially, it was really all about the technical and delivering solutions and whatnot. But the more you grow and bring people onto your team and your team grows, it's all about the people.

Tim Fitzpatrick: In 30 plus years, you had to run into roadblocks hurdles. We know growing a business is not always easy. When you hit those roadblocks, do you have any mantra or saying or anything that you tell yourself, share with your team to help push through those times?

Craig Pollack: Yeah. It's probably two things. Individually, I actually have a little stone. I don't see it here, but I have this little stone that has the Chinese character for patience etched in it, and I carry that around to remind me. I think a lot of entrepreneurs have that. It's like you want to get everything done all at the same time. You just want to get it done. I've had to learn patience. I think that's one of the most important things. I mean, for our specific industry, what I do communicate with the team is IT is not easy. It's not an easy career. Someone will call you up and say, Hey, everything's working. Just wanted to let you know. They only call when they're upset and things aren't working. It's not for the faint of heart. That's more. we run into more issues around the technical than the people, the relationships.

Tim Fitzpatrick: I think patience is such a... I really like that because I think as humans, we're so wired to want short term gratification immediately. But man, business is a marathon, not a sprint. We really need to keep in mind that making long term decisions is really important because very rarely do I ever see short term decisions. Very rarely are they good things for a business long term. I love the fact that you focus on patience. That's something I need to work on myself.

Craig Pollack: It's a lifelong pursuit. Let me tell you.

Tim Fitzpatrick: You're never done.?

The Pros and Cons of In-house vs. Outsourced Marketing

Tim Fitzpatrick: One of the things we talked about in the pre interview before today was that you've had inhouse marketing people, you've outsourced marketing. Tell me a little bit about what your team looks like today. And what have you found have been the pluses and minuses to both sides of that?

Craig Pollack: Well, I think we've gone through a lot of different iterations in terms of marketing and sales. And certainly, the industry has morphed over the years. A lot of different changes. Again, 30 plus years, a lot of things have changed. A lot of things have come and gone. And so we've insourced, if that's a word, the hired people, we've outsourced. I think at this point, one of the things that I've learned is you can't say yes to everything. And especially you can't say yes to every prospect, every opportunity that you get, because oftentimes they're not, at least for what we do, we're so driven by our client relationships that it's really about finding the right partners to work with, the right clients. And so from a marketing perspective, I think one of the big takeaways is not going after everything. Every marketer will tell you, find your niche, find your unique selling proposition, find your unique client profile and target. I think when you're younger and when you're just trying to get revenue, you don't look at the quality of those dollars. You just look at, hey, a dollar here is great. Until you realize it costs you a dollar 25 to service it. I think that what I've tried to do over the years is pick up bits and pieces and learn from every, I don't want to say every failure, but every endeavor in terms of marketing that didn't quite work out, what can I learn from that? Fortunately or unfortunately, and we can go really deep on this, but I'm a fairly technical person. My background, I have a degree in computer science. I started as an application developer. So tools come fairly easy to me. Software comes easy to me. And knowing the industry, obviously, comes easy to me. So when I'm dealing with outsourced or various people, I come to find that the amount of time that it takes for me to manage whoever that is or whatever that entity is, it's almost the same for me to just do it because once I have the tools down and once I've implemented whatever automation I can do, the reality is for me to proof somebody else writing a blog is about the same amount of time as it takes me to write a blog. Crazy, but I can write about a blog in a half an hour. And the end result is I get it done quicker, faster, and out in front of the public faster. The downside is that's still time I'm spending doing something else rather than what we like to say, HABA, highest and best use. What should I be doing? Probably not marketing, but I'm at this crossroad of how do I let go of something that I'm fairly efficient at?

Tim Fitzpatrick: That changes as the business grows, right? Sometimes...

Craig Pollack: 100 %.

Tim Fitzpatrick: It's interesting you touched on this because it's very common for people to feel like, God, I'm spending more time managing these people than I would if I just did it myself. Right? Is that one of the main drivers that's like, Hey, I'm going to outsource this. And then you outsource it and you just realize, Man, this isn't working.

Craig Pollack: Yeah. Ultimately, what I've come to realize, at least, again, in our world, again, Nordstrom versus Walmart, is being so super targeted that I think a lot of the standard methodologies of, well, let's just get you in front of as many people as possible, ends up not being as successful as, Let's be super targeted and get you in front of five people and then you close two. As opposed to, Okay, let's wait through 20 and maybe I'll close one. I think that, especially in our market, and everybody in the world always says it doesn't matter what your market is, but if you're doing what we do in a smaller market, you have different amount and levels of competition. In Los Angeles, I probably have 3, 4, 5 hundred competitors here. At the same time, LA County is 11 million people. It's a big barrel of fish. So it's trying to figure out that balance, the balance between going specific versus... I tend to think about marketing, a difference to me, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but at least mentally in the way I look at it is marketing is like fishing with a net and sales is like fishing with a fishing pole. You want to get all of these fish with your net, but you still have to weight out which are the right ones as opposed to, Hey, I caught fish. Great.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Yeah, you do. But like you touched on, the narrower and the more defined your ideal clients are, the easier it becomes to rather than casting a super wide net, you're casting a very narrow net. And look, for the fishing analogy, sometimes you cast out a net and you catch different fish, right? But it's more about making sure that you're fishing in the spots where most of your fish hang out.

Craig Pollack: Exactly.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Right. And when it's very clear, it becomes much easier to identify, do I need to fish in this pond or that pond?

Craig Pollack: To that degree, sorry to cut you off, but to that degree...

Tim Fitzpatrick: No, it's good.

Craig Pollack: One of the big takeaways that I've learned throughout this process, and when I'm talking process, I mean just our marketing and figuring that out over the last X number of years is I've really tweaked our marketing to be more about how do I position the company and how do I position myself as a subject matter expert? Because we're so relationship driven. It really is about getting out there and meeting people and learning about people and figuring out how to help people so that you become that go to guy. And then that's probably the biggest tweak I've done over the last, again, X number of years is rather than, hey, we can solve your problem. Look, it's more here's what I do, here's some knowledge, here's some experience, here are some answers, here's information that's going to help your business. When you're ready, call us. And I've gotten those sorts of calls. Whether it's I have been getting your emails for the last two or three years and now we're ready to make a move. Or something like, some of the best calls are, and literally I've gotten these, which are, Hey, I hear I'm supposed to work with you guys. Really? Why is that?

Tim Fitzpatrick: Yeah, great.

Craig Pollack: I called three of my colleagues from other companies and ask them who they're using, and they're using you guys, so I guess I should be working with you guys.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Great. It's funny you talk about people being on your list and two, three years down the road, they're finally ready to go because it's such a... Depending on where you hear the stat, it's somewhere between 5 % to 10 % of your market, your audience is ready to buy at any given point in time. So knowing that that's the case, that such a small percentage is actually ready, one of the huge jobs of marketing is just to stay in front of people so that when they are ready, they think of you because if you're not in front of them consistently enough, they're not going to think of you. And if you're not in the top two, maybe three, you're not getting the business.

Craig Pollack: Well, I think not to gloss over what you said, but I definitely, as you were speaking, the word consistency came to me. I want to make sure that that word pops out because that's really what it's about is consistency. And it's not at least to me and the way that we approach the relationships with our clients, it's not about hitting people over the head. It's more reminding them you're here and this is what you do and you're good and this is why and here you go.

How Inbound Marketing can Improve ROI

Tim Fitzpatrick: What marketing activities, channels, tactics are working well for you guys right now?

Craig Pollack: Yeah. We do a lot of... I'm really a big believer in inbound marketing. We're on the HubSpot platform and works great for us. I'm just a really big believer in having information available for people. If I can help people solve their problems without having to engage us, there's value there. It's something that I think is super valuable. So we've done a really... Again, this comes back to consistency. We've done a lot of hard work and a really good job at creating a lot of evergreen content. And sometimes that's difficult in our industry because oftentimes topics are very timely. But generally speaking, if you can write in such a way that that creates blogs that are evergreen, they're not dated, they're not tied to any time period per se, then you can keep reusing that content. And so the more content you have, the better your SEO results are, the better your social media results are. So a lot of that can then be automated. So I have 100 % of my social media is automated. And every time I create a new blog, I add it to that automation. And when you have 300, 400, 500 blogs of every content, that's a lot of content that you can put in front of people's eyes that is going to solve somebody's problems out there.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Are you able to track how much traffic is being driven to the site from your blog content and whether those are converting?

Craig Pollack: Yeah, 100 %. Again, I'm not here to sell HubSpot.

Tim Fitzpatrick: No, that's okay.

Craig Pollack: As a tool, and I know that there's a couple of other platforms that are very similar. But the fact that it's integrated, 100 % integrated between our emails, our social media, our blogs, our website, so everything is integrated to the extent that our CRM is integrated. So literally, I can go to somebody's contact record and see everything about them from a virtual standing. What have you looked at? What pages? It's incredibly valuable to be able to see as an example, if I send out an email and I know that these hundred people went to these various pages and for instance, if somebody goes to backup or a cloud page or cybersecurity page, what have you, I know immediately what they're interested in and I can talk to them about that. As opposed to being a cold, Hey, we do IT. You guys need IT, hire us. No, it's how can I help you solve this problem? Which, again, as a trusted advisor, just levels us up to a whole another level when I'm talking to them.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Yeah. So many people struggle with tracking the ROI on content. So the fact that you have that ability within HubSpot, which is fantastic, which HubSpot, you're right, HubSpot does a really good job of making it easy for you to track all that. It gives you so much more... Certainly, data can get overwhelming for people at times.

Craig Pollack: No question.

Tim Fitzpatrick: But if you have the right data that can help inform the decisions that you choose to make, you can make better decisions, more effective decisions. And it helps give you a much better picture of what's the journey for this particular prospect or potential client been. But it can also help you determine how do I want to continue to interact with this person, too? You touched on this, like, oh, they've been on these specific blog posts. Well, maybe we should reach out with some additional information about this. Again, just can try and build that relationship and continue the conversation.

Craig Pollack: Right. Yeah, 100 %. The other thing, too, is at a more macro level, when you see the results, you can start getting an idea of what are the topics that people are interested in. So you can see, should I be writing more about X, or should I be writing more about Y? Where am I getting more traction? Where am I getting more interest out there? And by who? So again, one of the nice things about or one of the strengths, I'd say, about HubSpot is being able to create personas. And because we work with fairly specific verticals. As an IT provider, we have probably almost any client, but probably 50 % of our client base are professional service firms. So we do a lot of work with investment advisors, CPAs, attorneys, and insurance companies. Those are probably the top four. But now I can target content specifically to those markets. And again, when you're that targeted in your marketing, it adds to the level, it adds to your credence, it adds to your credibility. In your prospect's eyes, that's the most important thing, right? They see you differently. That's one of the beauties of that.

Tim Fitzpatrick: The other thing, too, Craig, is when you focus, things just get easier. I was talking to somebody a couple of weeks ago, and he said when we chose to focus, life got a whole lot easier. You know, as a marketer, I talk about that all the time. It was so interesting just to hear it from another business owner that's not in marketing. It's just when you focus, you have clarity. When you have clarity, you know what your priorities are. You can eliminate distraction. It just makes things much easier.

Craig Pollack: Yeah, no question. And for your team, too, because they're not juggling all sorts of different inputs.

Tim Fitzpatrick: When it gives you a measuring stick, too. You touched on the personas. When a lead comes in, you guys have this measuring stick so that as you have that conversation, are they checking off the boxes or are they not? If they're not checking off the boxes, that's okay. You can refer them to somebody else that might be a better fit. Long term, you're doing yourself a favor and them a favor by saying, This isn't a good fit.

Craig Pollack: No question. I think that what you're describing right there is a certain level of operational maturity. It just takes a while for that to hit. But it also takes a while financially and organizationally to be in that place. Because when you're just in your early stages of the business, oftentimes it's just any revenue is great. And you're leveraging that. But at some point, you do have to pick a course. You have to pick a road to go down a path.

Unpacking the Key Driver Behind 30+ Years of Growth

Tim Fitzpatrick: What do you think has been the biggest driver of your growth over the past 30 plus years?

Craig Pollack: Again, I think it's our focus on the client relationship. That might be oversimplified, but one of the things that I think that's really unique about us is we really focus on our culture. We really focus on our staff, our people, how we do what we do, hiring and retaining really great people. When you get to a place where you have a really strong team and everybody's focused and everybody's rowing in the same direction. And again, when I talk about culture, a lot of companies talk about culture, but the culture is around, dare I say, being great. Our mantra is IT the way it's supposed to be. So internally, our dialog with each other is we're setting the bar for everybody else. We want to be great. We want to, again, deliver IT the way people should expect IT, not come to expect IT. So it's this moving target that everybody, again, if you build a great team and everybody has the character that they want to do great work. That's what gets delivered, if that's what the culture. Then ultimately, like you said, when you align yourself with the right clients who appreciate that and value that, it's a win win. I think that's the big thing for us is culture and relationships.

Tim Fitzpatrick: There's some really good stuff in there, Craig. I want to pull this out. From a culture standpoint, because you're right, a lot of people talk about culture, where I think they go wrong with culture is in their hiring process. The default for many businesses is to hire based on skill. In your hiring process, do you have something baked in where there is that focus on culture so that you attract people that are going to be the right fit for your culture?

Craig Pollack: Yeah, we do. I'm over simplifying and it seems like, oh, everything's perfect. It's not. It's a constant work and constant work and improvement. And it's taken us a while because it used to be no question, hey, this guy has the chops. We need him, let's hire him. Okay. Then we find out he just does not mesh with the team. And no matter how great people are, they have to work well with each other. That's the bottom line. Again, coming back to the people. So we do a number of different assessments. Certainly, we need to understand their technical expertise and know where their level of capabilities are. We're a technical company, we deliver technical services. They have to be doing certain things. But at the same time, there's no question over the last five years, we've hired people who are less technical than others in that hiring queue because the soft skills were way stronger. The technical you can teach over time, the soft skills are way harder. We use the disk assessment for every new hire that we have. We have multiple people interview. There's a lot of different ways to ensure that, but that's really a big focus for us now. It's as simple as, Can I go have a meal with this person? Can I have a beer? So many times you hire people that are like, Wow, their technical chops are great, but I don't know that I'd necessarily want to hang with them. That ends up, I think, biting us in the butt.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Thank you for sharing that because that's what I wanted to pull out. I can't remember where I heard this, but it always stuck with me was?hire for culture and fit first and skills second?because we can level up people's skills, but you can't change those soft skills. That's in their character and their nature. You're not going to change that. That's just the way people are. Gosh, in my earlier career, I was a partner in a distribution company. I just remember there were times where you said it like, Look, we don't have it all figured out. The minute we think we have it all figured out, crap goes downhill. We're always working. But I just remember some of the most difficult times I ever had were when there was people that were not the right fit. And they were like, honestly, it was like a cancer within the company. And it just makes life miserable. And the minute you get them out, things, literally, honestly, I'm thinking in one case, it was different the following day.

Craig Pollack: I can picture two relatively well, one probably about two or three years ago and one that was probably eight years ago. But exactly those, the clouds parted, the angels were singing. Literally, in one case, somebody was with us for a long time and highly technical, highly highly successful, but you never knew which person was going to show up that day, the successful one or the angry one. And it was just a cancer when that finally... And it's hard. It really is hard to let go of somebody who technically is delivering but is alienating 80 % of your team.

Tim Fitzpatrick: I think most people listening can relate to this. It's just it's a really tough spot to be in.?

Harnessing the Power of Marketing Tools

Tim Fitzpatrick: I want to shift gears a little bit. You touched on this with tools on the marketing side. There are?so many marketing tools?out there. I think we need to be... Automation is great. We certainly need to be careful with automation. I think there are some things that we don't want to scale. Some of the things that we do work really well and they just can't scale. But you touched on tools and how it's helping you be more efficient with some of your marketing. Can you touch on some of the things that you're doing that you found have been really helpful for you?

Craig Pollack: Yeah, a couple of different things. Like I mentioned, HubSpot is big and we didn't even talk about the automation within HubSpot and the workflows. For instance, when a new prospect comes to our site, we have a workflow in terms of emails that go out. So initial intro, and then maybe a couple of weeks later, another one, and then a week later, another one, depending on what their activity is like and their persona. So all of those followups can be fairly automated. So that's a big plus. The second piece, I would tell you, and this is probably my hidden gem, really, is there's a program out there called SmarterQueue. It's all one word, SmarterQueue. And Queue is spelled out Q, U, E, U, E. I think it might be from England or Europe or something like that. But if anybody's familiar with Hootsuite, which is an automation, social media automation platform, I used to use it all the time. The problem with Hootsuite was in terms of automation, you could only technically, you could upload a set of posts and it would run those posts, and then when it runs out, you're done. And then so you got to make more.What SmarterQueue allows you to do is create with different triggers, with different groupings, with different platforms, a way to schedule all of these different posts out. And so it never ends. That's the beauty of the evergreen content. When you don't have a lot of content, it's probably not the best thing because you're just going to be looping through things that people are very familiar with. And after a while, they're going to go, Oh, this is automation because I saw this over the last five days, or whatever. As opposed to if I have 400 blog articles and I can post security ones on Tuesdays and I can post podcasts on every other Thursday. This social media do this over LinkedIn and do this over Twitter and do this on Instagram. When you have that much content, the likelihood that any... I can't tell you how many times people go, Wow, you're really busy on LinkedIn. How do you get it all done? I don't do anything. That would be my nugget is check out SmarterQueue. It took me a while to find something like that, but once I did, it was like, oh, my God.

Tim Fitzpatrick: It helps.

Craig Pollack: It's great. Yeah.

Tim Fitzpatrick: With HubSpot, you're also able to?track how much traffic?is coming from that social activity back to your website. Which is awesome. I mean, it's super important because there's a lot of people that are posting on social, but they're not tracking. Is anything happening from this activity. Whereas because of the tool sets that you're using, you have the ability to track that, which gives you the data, the information that you need to determine like, hey, is this working or is it not? Which I love. The other thing that I would add to this, like I said at the beginning of this question, there's so many tools out there. Whenever people ask, what should I be using? I always default to the tool that you understand. It's easy for you to use is the one that you should use. I don't care if it's the best tool out there or not because if you don't understand the tool, you're not going to use it effectively.

Craig Pollack: You're not going to use it. Right.

Tim Fitzpatrick: ubspotH is fantastic. It's working well for you, I think, because you're pretty technical. There's a lot of moving pieces there.

Craig Pollack: Yeah. It's not an entry level.

Tim Fitzpatrick: No.

Craig Pollack: There are many systems that can do what it does. One, easier and two, cheaper.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Yeah. But hey, if it makes sense to you, cool. Then in your case, you're doing a great job using it. But if it's difficult for you to use, you're just going to give up and move on. And frankly, especially with marketing tools, there are so many features that a lot of these offer. I think about, a while back, I bought this high end washing machine that had all these different settings. And I was like, oh, this is going to be so great. You know how many settings I use? I use right now. Yeah, exactly. What's the easiest way to wash these clothes and not ruin them? That's the one I'm going to choose. So we think all these bells and whistles are great when in reality, a lot of the times we don't use 10 %. So should be easy.?

In Conclusion: Nordstrom In A Sea Of Walmarts

Tim Fitzpatrick: This has been an awesome interview, Craig. I want to ask you just a couple of quick questions. What's next? What are your priorities for 2023?

Craig Pollack: Well, couple. The interesting thing is we just recently, even though it's February, really got dialed in on what our goals and initiatives are. So for us, really, it's about continuing to deliver high quality service to our clients, but really focusing in two areas. One is the cloud and getting a lot of clients move to the cloud where it makes sense. Again, very similar mindset that you mentioned in terms of the tool. It's got to work. It's got to make sense. We're pretty agnostic when it comes to cloud on prem, hybrid, it's got to make sense for the client's business, whatever that is. The second to that is really even more focused on cybersecurity. Those two things are huge, not only for us, but for our clients. And cyber security is just the next level. We have to protect our clients. Again, we do a lot of work with professional service firms. And so a lot of this is about reputation protection.

Tim Fitzpatrick: They have a lot of valuable Data, right?

Craig Pollack: Yeah, no question. So for us, that's the focus. Now, on top of that, obviously is how to grow the business and how to... I like to say our business is like a Ponsy scheme, but it's not a scheme. Just keep hiring, get new clients, hire great people, promote from within and give people opportunities to grow and create a bigger pyramid. But like I said, it's like a Ponsy scheme, but not a scheme.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Knowing what you know now, anything that you do differently?

Craig Pollack: Yeah, no question. I'll frame this with the guise of I don't really like to look back with regrets because however we got to this place, if I changed anything, I might not be in this place. I really don't like to think about it in those terms. But that being said, definitely, the one thing that I would say is I wish I had started personal development sooner. I wish I read more and developed more. I probably started really started working on myself as a leader and as a leader of the business, probably in my mid 40s when God, if I was doing... I have two sons, but one of them just graduated college and he's just a ferocious reader. He probably learns more from reading than from school. I wish I had done that in my early 20s. I think it's just such a great habit. It's that oxygen mask mentality, right? You put it on yourself first and then you can help others.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Yes. That's so funny you say that because I was thinking about that as you were going into that. I think it's so interesting, too, that you bring this up because honestly, not a lot of people talk about that. I'm the exact same way. When I was managing the distribution company I was a partner in, I was in my early, mid, late 20s. Man, personal development was not really on my radar at that point. I think had it been I definitely would have done some things differently, and I think that they would have been more effective. Again, it's not that I look back on that and regret it, but where I am now, I can see much more clearly some of the mistakes that I made that... Had I been where I am now, I would have done it differently. And I think that that's I think it's natural.

Craig Pollack: To me, it's like, if I had started sooner, it just might have shortened the runway to get to wherever I am going. That's the way that I would look at that.

Tim Fitzpatrick: It would have helped you get to where you wanted to be faster.

Craig Pollack: Yeah.

Tim Fitzpatrick: I love it.

Craig Pollack: Less stress along the way.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Right. Yes. Craig, this has been awesome, man. Thank you for taking the time. Where can people learn more about you?

Craig Pollack: Yeah. So our website, www.fpainc.com, LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook. We're literally all over.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Okay.

Craig Pollack: Yeah.

Tim Fitzpatrick: Yeah, FPAinc. We'll make sure that link and your other links are in the show notes. So if people want to connect with you, reach out to Craig. I have enjoyed chatting with you and connecting with you a couple of times now. So thank you again for doing that. For those of you that are watching, listening, we appreciate you doing so. We've been talking about revenue growth, growing your company. If you want to grow, you've got to remove those revenue roadblocks. If you want to know which of the nine revenue roadblocks are slowing down your growth, check out?revenueroadblockscorecard.com. You can always connect with us as well over at rialtomarketing.com too. Thank you so much. Until next time, take care.

Connect With Craig Pollack

• Linkedin

Links From The Episode

• FPA Technology Services

About the author,?Tim Fitzpatrick

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