The Most Amazing Safety/Risk/Life Conversation

One Safety slogan is too many - Stop. Think. Don’t.

Carsten Busch

I'm confused by the space between Too and Many. ??

Human error perhaps? LOL Or perhaps ONE space too many? (edited)

Jim Loud CSP MS MPH

Yes, and why is “Too” capitalized and the verb “is” in lower case.

Carsten Busch

One wonders what they were thinking! They could have prevented this so easily if the only had stopped and thought!

Carsten Busch imagine how preventable this was if they would have employed observation experts and feedback cards inflicted without input upon the sign maker!

One what?

Slogan

'break dance' ?

Why not: Think. Prevent. Stop. ?

Willem Muijs

Look, think and then act ?!

David Hickey

Silly humans. Just stop falling over. Simples!

LOL This wins the internet today...and that says a LOT. The world is full of silliness...almost all of it HUMAN error related.

Willem Muijs

Lets kick in the 88% stuff !

Robert Honan

And the one you don't do

https://www.safetydifferently.com/

You guys are brutal.

The space is a function of the font, wiseacres.

As always, nothing is ever as simple as it sounds.

Does stop mean stop doing what you're doing, stop behaving the way you're behaving, stop planning work the way you've always planned it, stop saying yes when the answer is really "we shouldn't"?

Does think mean think about what you're doing, positive and negative, is there a better way, is there a downside to what you're doing, safety, productivity, or quality related? Is it a human issue, an environment issue, a mechanical issue? Don't they all somehow come back to decision making, at some level, perhaps well above the pay grade of the exposed individual?

Does prevent mean don't wait to fix it after it's happened, don't treat the symptoms, go after the cause? Is this a safety message, an addiction message, a health care message, a political message? Is there crossover?

You're being hypocritical if you think asinine and unconstructive comments without thinking through the process, or asking questions, are the right way to resolve a problem.

Don't like it? Fine

Disagree? Equally fine.

Want to stop it? Great. But REASON, don't attack, or be prepared to appear just as myopic as the windmills you tilt against.

Duncan MacKillop

It may be brutal Marko Kaar, but we have been seeing this sort of thing for decades and have got thoroughly bored with it. Educate don't castigate you say, well that's a fine ideal, but we have found that the people least likely to want to do any form of learning are those that operate in the safety sphere. When we have tried to point safety people in the direction of new knowledge and understanding in the past the abuse we usually get in return puts these few comments into the shade. I'm sure that you want to learn so why not take a look at some interesting websites that might help explain things?

https://sidneydekker.com/

https://humanisticsystems.com/

Duncan MacKillop I hear your frustration, and believe me I feel it as well. But one thing I have learned over the years is that frustration motivates negativity, and communication involves listening more than anything else.

There is no excuse for abuse, no reason for verbal diarrhea no matter how many times your feelings have been hurt. It isn't professional, and it isn't kind.

You can quote anyone you like (I personally think Dekker is spot on), buy I doubt very much any of your resources counsel to attack rather than explain.

Educate > castigate. Perhaps that's a different and more meaningful way to put it. It's not AN ideal, but it IS ideal. And NEVER perfect.

So yes, I am a sponge, and I appreciate good guidance, fairly presented.

Oh, by the way, I had to eliminate spaces between paragraphs in this diatribe so I could fit it all in. Educate, don't castigate... There's a good one for you.

I am always fond of what works but safety is not simple.

It is complex because the workplace is complex and so are people. Simple approaches can work but they can also backfire. It depends on the starting assumptions.

People have been walking upright for many years slips still happen and are to be expected.

Saying that thinking is the right intervention suggests people are not thinking or are just plain stupid. After all we do all laugh at people who fall right?

Jim Loud CSP MS MPH

Marlo, Yes, some (me too) were a little hard and wiseass regarding this post. I can’t speak for my fellows but I confess to a knee jerk negative reaction to this kind of messaging.

First of all there is absolutely no evidence that such general safety messages have any impact on the intended audience and may help them tune out more specific and useful safety advice.

Personally, I find such safety platitudes a bit patronizing to those they intend to motivate which ultimately serves to trivialize safety rather than promote it. Sorry I called you Marlo but LinkedIn spell check insisted.

I for one am NOT making pointed comments in the spirit of meanness but in one of desired self reflecting humour. It's time to leave this approach behind.

Damn! All we have to do is think? Why didn't I think of that? If you do have one - and it is too many, what do we do then? Hmmm - and it is not even Friday...

I’d love to know how they get anything done in this workplace?

I hear a whole bunch of bitching but not a lot of ideas.

Pity it's so easy to say "that doesn't work" when you're supposed to be on the other, more successful, effective, and Holy Grail path.

So let's just try this, and I will assume for a moment that, as an enlightened individual, you will at least listen. And, then, perhaps, in the fashion of "persuasive argument", we can have a discussion.

Rule #1 - do your research. Read and understand what the intent and the real meaning is. Anything anywhere can be misconstrued, but if you can support an idea with education, outreach, compassion, etc, it is all greater than the sum of its parts. A takeaway, a talisman, a charm, can hold great effect - for SOME people. I still haven't heard what your entirely effective approach actually is.

2) know the intended audience. I agree 1000% that anything foisted on only line level workers misses the whole point. The whole concept is empowerment. If you see something, say something - but so much better yet, get involved early in the process. Stop doing what you've always done

3) leverage your knowledge, training, and experience. Don't wait for someone to tell you, be engaged, ask questions

4) Prevention is always better than recovery. We have to plan for each, of course, but it's a hell of a lot better to manage risk up front

5) few people are empowered to say no when they need to. It isn't telling a worker it's ok, it's telling everyone. Speak up about (not necessarily against) risk

6) it's not a freaking safety slogan. It's a way of life. Stop being short with people. Think about how your actions or words affect others. Prevent harm to yourself, or others, as best you can

7) I don't really agree with "zero". But at the same time, WHO becomes the one that is acceptable? Who decides? Why? Medical care is a multi-billion dollar business. What is the incentive to find a cure, given the cash we can make over the long term?

You're right. There is no simplification. There is no panacea. But while we argue about the best approach, people die. Addiction. Suicide. Guns. Mental health. Workplaces.

Marko Kaar, CHST if my goal was to hurt 0, 1 or 2 how is my strategy different? So we should tell those with mental health to just stop it and man up? The old toolbox talk (before it became contrived and formalised) was effective. The point is that you can’t replace a conversation with a sticker that may mean a multitude of different things to different people (edited)

Well, I am sure the intent is good but isn't there better places to concentrate on like walking surfaces - texture, coatings and other measures to prevent slipping? Snow and ice control plans spring to mind as well.

Slogans an platitudes are not very effective, especially when used broadly. Assuming people are the issue is not really going to get to a solution that works.

Saying it is a way of life communications passion. What if some see it as extremist? We always value professionals who can avoid emotion and make fact based determinations. Getting emotional erodes effectiveness.

Pursuing zero anything with a slogan and no plan is a form of extremism. People are fallible, zero is simply not sustainable.

My article on hypercompliance spells out exactly why this approach is counterproductive. Just trying to present a viewpoint. I do not claim to be right, just experienced and having done considerable research. Doing something is mostly better than doing nothing - unless what you do pushes you further from a solution.

Dave Rebbitt, MBA, CRSP, CET, CD do you think sometimes it is better to do nothing and let people figure out their own way to adapt and overcome? When we do something we must think critically about byproducts. I make a lot of mistakes when I think too much about what I'm doing (edited)

David Collins et Al

In Safety Differently, Dekker describes the notion, the process, of turning things upside down.

What does Origin do? They admit they have a problem (reference to 12 step programs). They stop doing business the old way. They gather together to discuss everything they do, and need to do. To define the destination, and the journey they need to take to get there. They rethink the process. And I truly love this - they dump the top-down safety personnel.

What is the goal? Prevention. And improvement.

And I burst out laughing... how do they remind themselves? Stickers. And signs! Definable actions too, but always simply a recognizable icon as a reminder.

Professor Dekker writes well, and compellingly.

You yourself have found flaws with Deming, Heinrich. Meaningless statistics. The gods of safety. And I agree with you!

Absolutely right, mental health issues cannot be prevented. But abuse, misunderstanding, discrimination can.

Pick the right targets. Employ every weapon. Never give up, despite failure after failure. Thanks Dave Rebbitt, MBA, CRSP, CET, CD also. I don't know that I would call it extremism. And I believe it's getting us closer. But as you point out, we are fallible. The slogan is not the answer

Indeed! Failure is often the only path to success. Not trying makes failure certain. trying makes failure - and success possible.

Marko Kaar, CHST I hate text limits... The slogan is not the answer, I agree. But if it opens the door to communication, isn't that a step in the right direction? No initiative, no plan, no construct can stand on it's own.

Developing a foundation is key, and then the stairs, access points to different rooms, overlooks, libraries, private places can be built as well.

Let's not presuppose that any initiative has a necessary failure point...it may shift, correct, given the humans we work with... but given proper support, may last that much longer.

It absolutely is about building systems, engaging people, capitalizing on strength. But none of us will ever be successful if we just say “NO, that's not right”. Aren't we supposed to tweak, to recognize productivity, quality, movement, as well as safety? Shouldn't the same attention be paid to communication?

Original Post and following conversation:

(No text, just the picture)

Rory McLaren

Finally a "safety poster" for safety professionals. I encourage safety professionals that are employed by companies that utilize hydraulic power to subscribe to these words of wisdom.

You may classify an incident related to hydraulics as "low frequency," but isn't one incident just one too many? I suggest we make a safety sticker that says: "I will protect workers from ALL hazards even those not recognized by the OSHA." Or perhaps: "I will not look the other way today while workers in my plant risk their lives working on hydraulic systems."

If safety professionals want to earn my respect, protect ALL workers from ALL hazards, not just those you find by accident of reading an OSHA manual.

Marko Kaar, CHST replied to Rory McLaren's comment on this

Allyson Clark ASP

Marko Kaar, CHST When can I order posters?

https://stopthinkprevent.signs.com

Thanks for asking Allyson!

I have a partnership with signs.com to enable purchase of our stopthinkprevent design with your logo on signs, banners, mugs, etc. added. They do all of the work affordably and ship super quickly - and I get nothing but the satisfaction of knowing that someone else is spreading the word!

Or, you can visit stopthinkprevent.com and check the artwork tab for free graphics that your local vendor can prepare items from. Or check out the PowerPoint files to add to any presentation you may have...there are sticker links there as well, or try this...

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F253289850506

You can help choose the delivery methods/items by making your own with whoever you like, wherever you like...I am merely seeking ways to spread the word, to offer ways to help ourselves, and to help others. If you come up with good ideas, please share! The words are free. Stop. Think. Prevent. Because One is Too Many.

1.25" x 2.5" Stop. Think. Prevent. Stickers - 100/pc in a package. Peel off back | eBay

1.25" x 2.5" Stop. Think. Prevent. Stickers - 100/pc in a package. Pee…

rover.ebay.com

Jack Vachon

great slogan

Adam Mroz

There is a lack of evidence based research into the use of slogans in safety/risk management, though I suggest they have a) a short lifespan (like in marketing/advertising slogans) and b) will be interpreted in many ways (including some unintended ways) by the target audience.

A better approach may be to save the printing cost and spend it on letting managers go to the frontline where they can have real conversations, be empathetic and collaborate to understand and reduce risk.

Russel Skilleter

Wow Adam - you are speaking treason!

Russel Skilleter yes I have been blocked from LinkedIn by committing less Safety sacrilege than that - apparently I must have wanted people to get hurt?

Peter Harris

I remember one project that had just hired the same team that had had a fatality or two on each of their previous projects and their panacea for preventing fatalities on this project was to put up bigger signs asking workers not to hurt themselves.

The sign that they don’t know what else to do

Jack Benton, CDS

Love the larger sticker Marko Kaar, CHST!

Thanks Jack!

Adam Mroz

This evidence based research paper gives an insight into the lack of efficacy of signs, posters and stickers. Time to get out of the stoneage and do as the paper recommends ... use more novel and interactive methods. https://www.publish.csiro.au/HE/HE16107?jid=HEv28n3&xhtml=6A90AA27-D935-4C85-B3A4-53435AF432F1

Adam, I read your reply at about 3am our time. And I had to chuckle.

Stop. Think. Prevent. is about many things human, NOT just about safety!

Think for a moment, if you will:

Stop: don't hit the send button, until either you have reread your content, or have sat on the message for some time, reconsidering the information you wish to convey

Think: about the words you use, the references you provide, the impact the information (or the language) will have on the recipient

Prevent: appearing hypocritical, insensitive, or condescending

Certainly, these are shortcomings of "communication" in this "modern age".

I don't know you, and you don't know me. Neither one of us knows more than the other, we just know differently. Sharing information, having dialogue, and recognizing cultural, regional, or industry differences is critical to helping us understand. Assuming that any message or lesson exists in a vacuum, absent any other supporting or complementary activity is unfair, and, I would assume, not true in most cases. I see anywhere from 150-200 people a week in the field, meetings, etc. I make every effort to converse with them. And sometimes, if appropriate, I leave them with a calling card.

Reread. Think. Send.

Interestingly, I saw this yesterday:

Ephesians 4:29 King James Version (KJV) 29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

Awesome advice, and incredibly timely. He is amazing - but not surprising.

Unfortunately it takes more than just a silly sticker or slogan to call ourselves a professional. There is so much more to safety than hazard hunting and saving people . We cannot ever be taken as a serious profession until we move beyond this

David Collins either way it's oversimplified. "Safety" is many different things to many different people. Depending on the audience, your approach has to adjust in order to be heard. We can stand and pontificate ("zero is the only way", "zero is the wrong way" arguments as an example), or we can recognize the truth: we do only what we want to do, when we want to do it. Finding ways to open people's eyes is a step in the right direction. Invite a friend to your home. The only way they will know what a good cook you are is if they accept the invitation.

Marko Kaar, CHST unfortunately these silly aphorisms and platitudes have a very limited effective lifespan and quite frankly make a mockery of “Safety” - nothing can replace a meaningful conversation about risk. If I invite someone to my home then I would ask them directly and they most certainly will not see dumb slogans everywhere - so why do we do it in the workplace? (edited)

Silly worker, that is so dumb to stand on the top rung of that ladder. You are making a mockery of our trade.

I hope your meaningful risk conversation is a little more constructive than that...

WILL the ladder tip over, or COULD it?

My first car was a Rambler Ambassador. Big, ugly. My dad bought it for $100.

Does Rambler exist any more? Nope.

But that's the car I learned to drive in. I still have fond memories - and a skill that will last me a lifetime.

There is no simple solution in "safety" or "risk management". There is no proven "evidence based research" that indicates one message or delivery method is TRULY better than any other, if properly supported, and communicated.

A whole bunch of us have different opinions, doesn't mean any one of us is wrong. Each human being responds differently to stimuli. Are there general observations, common behaviors in a culture, stereotypes? Always will be.

Is this only about safety? Of course not. Think Cancer. Car accidents. Addiction. Suicide. Collateral damage. Is each preventable? For the most part, yes, with visibility, communication, and recognizable, comprehensive messaging.

So we keep trying. Failing. Trying again. One IS Too Many. Make it mean what you think is right. (edited)

We can make any numbers or analysis support our position, it's a matter of perspective and expectation.

One repays a teacher badly if one remains only a pupil. And why, then, should you not pluck at my laurels? You respect me; but how if one day your respect should tumble? Take care that a falling statue does not strike you dead! You had not yet sought yourselves when you found me. Thus do all believers — Now I bid you lose me and find yourselves; and only when you have all denied me will I return to you.

Nietzsche Quoted by Jung to Freud, 1912

Has psychotherapy grown since then? Of course.

Are there still fundamental principals that apply? Hmm. Ask any psychotherapist, and you'll likely get a different answer...

Causal attribution or correspondence inference - aren't we working in those constructs? Is it better to discuss from the outside which of the two is more salient, or work from within to understand and amend our approach given the environment, situation and personalities involved?

Marko Kaar, CHST oh dear - you quote Jung and yet you do not understand the unconscious affects of these slogans???

Marko Kaar, CHST thanks - I'll take it to mean one silly slogan is too many

David Collins actually, if you read it, it was Jung quoting Nietzsche. And the point was different strokes for different folks. And be prepared to change your mind when that time comes.

The Iconography of Safety ? SafetyRisk.net

David Collins I enjoy your website, there are many great resources, philosophies and ideas to be found there. I like your most recent article on the Superstitions of Safety. Many great observations within, most of which I agree with.

Did you read Rob Long's article: https://safetyrisk.net/the-iconography-of-safety/ Icons. Branding. Perfect, no. But one additional approach that has had effectiveness over the centuries.

Sometimes to change the paradigm you have to start by understanding and working within the status quo, especially with people's expectations.

Yes, I would like to change the world. But not by being insensitive, nor by skipping details that may or may not agree with my preconceived notions.

Have a great day! And be safe.

safetyrisk.net