No Limits with Rebecca Jarvis: Linsey Davis Full Transcript

Listen to the full episode here: https://abcn.ws/nolimits

On today’s episode, my friend and colleague: Linsey Davis. She is a two time Emmy-award winning journalist who reports as a correspondent for all of our ABC News platforms: World News Tonight with David Muir, Good Morning America, Nightline and 20/20. And now she’s adding author to her list of accomplishments with her first children’s book, The World Is Awake.

R: Linsey Davis, welcome to No Limits.

L: Thank you so much for having me Rebecca.

R: I'm really excited about this conversation because we've known each other now... I've been at ABC five years you’ve been at ABC now…

L: 11, almost 11.

R: Almost 11 years.

L: And I'm only 12.

R: You look you look great. Linsey always looking great. And now your book... No not at all. And now your brand new book is coming out.

L: Yes, February 6.

R: The World Is Awake is the name of the book. I'm looking at it right now. What made you write a children's book?

L: So, my son. So my son is now almost four, and when I was reading books to him early on it kind of reminded me of my own childhood. I was a big fan of Shel Silverstein Where the Sidewalk Ends, and Dr. Seuss, and then really when I was going to books going to bookstores to look for books for him, I started seeing or not seeing that there were there were just weren't enough books that reflected kids that look like him. And I just feel that that's still very problematic for you know to be in 2018 and to not have that. There's this professor at Ohio State University, Professor Bishop and she wrote this essay about Windows, Mirrors, and Sliding Glass Doors. And she talks about how essential it is that every children's book has a window and a mirror. A mirror to reflect the child and a window to look out into the world to see the things that they wouldn't see in an everyday situation. And how effective a window can be in becoming a sliding glass door, basically transporting a child into this world of where kids are different, and don't necessarily look like them. And how in that difference they're able to see their sameness at the same time. And so as I was looking at that and reading into that I felt like, let me be the one then to to make this this book for my son and for other children. I mean that's really the important thing for everybody. You know for the kids in my class who you know my son is often like the only black child and I don't want for the white children and the Asian children. I don't want them to just look at this one child as Aidan as the different one. Right. I mean I wanted to become part of their normal and everyday life. You know when you see the book and you don't notice that the child is black you just notice kids. It's a book.

R: How, how tough was it to write. To me and I'm looking at one of the lines here you have a lot of good rhymes. Did they just come to you quickly?

L: I played around with them, I knew kind of the arc of the day what I wanted to do and lots of animals plants of animals.

R: You're a great writer by the way, people...

L: Oh thank you.

R: Just just I want to say this because I look at your scripts and you know you can hear your scripts every night on World News and every morning on Good Morning America. You have to be a good writer, but you are a great writer. So I would imagine that coming into this you. You thought about that skill set that you already possess and applying it in a new place.

L: Well I love writing. My mom is an English teacher was an English teacher. She's retired but was an English teacher who from early on would you know I'd say she'd use a word like ominous when I was a child and I'd say well you know what does ominous mean. And she'd follow up with another word that I didn't understand my dad would like you know why don't you just tell her what it means you know. And she was like well I want to build her language and so I think I appreciated, or had a relationship with words at an early age. And then you know while you're still able to use it a bit in this craft I think when you're talking often about murdered or missing or whatever it is the depressing story is du jour.

R: And you have done it just you know to cut in a little bit. You've you've done your share of those stories in just the last six months being in Las Vegas. You were at the site of the Boston Marathon, bombing in Nairobi at the mall bombing. You have covered. I mean and that's just a tiny slice.

L: Right.

R: And obviously covering all of the Nassar trial with U.S. gymnastics a lot of the work that you do is very very heavy.

L Exactly. And that is what made me decide that this would be kind of fun and fresh and invigorating in a way you know to not talk about. And of course, I mean those things have to be covered the death and destruction and the depressing kinds of stories you know that's unfortunately often what's going on in the world. And so those have to be reported. But I felt like this was like a new way to get my creative juices flowing you know because you don't always have those fun and uplifting stories every once in a while on Good Morning America we get to do that and kind of be playful with words. And I wanted it to be you know, sometimes I voice you know, I do my stories in front of my son and I'm not thinking so much about especially like lately what I've been doing and I'm thinking he's too young to get it. But he'll ask me about it after like what happened to that little boy what you know and so I've I'm kind of scared him. So I wanted to just be able to do something that I would be proud to talk about in front of my son. And so it's been really marvelous to actually like you know put my son on my lap and read the book. And he he'll say it's his favorite book. But you know it's not his favorite. It's like he's cut at almost almost four. Kind of like patting my back like mom…

R: No that is truly the sweetest thing. That's so cute. And that has to just fill you with so much pride and joy too.

L: It's I can't my my favorite part of the day is and often it's too quick and it's rushed because as you know the schedule is crazy and getting home just to make it before he goes to bed. But my favorite part of the day every day is story time. And just getting that moment to snuggle and like you know sit in the rocking chair and I I you know people often say that you have to savor each day because you never know when the child is going to stop wanting to get in your lap.

R: When they grow up.

L: But. So it's certainly fun. And he seems to enjoy the book so we'll see. We'll see other kids reactions soon.

R: I want to talk to you in a minute about I mean just the idea of you have a 4 year old son. He is adorable and very sweet. But you also have this crazy job that I mean I see you here at ABC all the time I know that you're traveling all the time I know how hard you have to work. So I want to talk about that in a minute. But coming back to the idea of the book, I think there are a lot of people who are listeners who they might have that mission statement like you had initially you felt that there was this need and you had a desire to fill it but there's a big gap between that feeling that having that mission and actually doing it. What was the thing that really pushed you over the edge and how were you able to then really execute when you have such a demanding job and life.

L: Family. I think the main thing is surrounding yourself with people who are one, really good coaches. So someone, I had a friend who at dinner and I can remember the moment that this book was truly born. I'd been kind of like just rattling around in my head for a while you know like oh it would be really good to do this and this is why it would be needed and you know beneficial and then I had a dinner with a very good friend of mine was like. So let's start your book. And you know this is…

R: And what did you think when they said that, was it nerve racking?

L: No I believed, I believed him because he's one who's followed his own dreams. And so when he said it, it was kind of gave myself permission to say…

R: Why not?

L: Speak it.

R: Let's do this!

L: That's right. You're right. What is keeping me from writing a book? Alright so what do I need to do. And it was.

R: How did you figure out what you needed. I'm sure you asked people but how did you find the right people like for example somebody who's coming out this as a total novice, who may not have any kind of contacts or connections. What are the steps that it takes to get there to have your book ultimately published and out for the world to consume?

L: I think there are a few different avenues a few different paths that you can take to get the final, the final finished product of a published book. For me, it was asking. So fortunately I mean you know here at ABC alone there are a lot of people who've written books. So it was kind of like well how did you do it? How do you do it, and so.

R: Were people forthcoming with information?

L: I thought people were very helpful. I thought people were extremely helpful. I think people were very pessimistic in a way like oh, it's so difficult to get a book agent. And once you get a book agent you know the children's book is such a fat section and you know everybody thinks they can write a children's book.

R: I know a number of people who have children's books in their head I'm not one of them but. I have a lot of friends who are like why not. I can write a children's book.

L: I think that that is first of all something that once you have kids and you start reading them you're like oh my gosh this is it. There’s nothing to it!

R: Some animals, some rhymes.

L: So it's got to be like the basement level of like everybody can do this right. But so I, so I did think that there was a little bit of that like where I was thinking oh well maybe they're right maybe everybody thinks they can write a children's book. And a friend of mine was kind of like oh yeah all my friends that have kids that was like the first thing they decided was to write a children’s book. So there’s that. But I wasn't going to be deterred from you know from that. And so…

R: You’ve faced down much much harder obstacles.

L: Oh I 100% have. And so I just went right into. OK. So, I need to get a book agent that was kind of a number one. And at that point in my free time.

R: Your “free time” quotation marks.

L: But once my son goes to bed and everything, I would start kind of jotting down some ideas and jotting down what I thought was like my book. And you know a children's book, while there are certain number of pages. In some cases only a few words on each page. So it's not like it's really this exhaustive long thing. And so it wasn't really that difficult. And once I started focusing on it, it was kind of like a task that like I want to finish this and so I had something in mind. And I had a friend who knew an illustrator and so we did something that looked not quite like this. And my husband saw the first, was the first one and my husband is a, is a harsh critic. So he was like well it looks like a greeting card. You know I don't really think the illustrations are that good but I wanted to like it and I was like really you're just being too difficult.

R: Too constructive.

L: And then I I ran into some other people who felt the same way like, oh the illustration seems a little elementary. And so at least I had what it did was it gave me a starting point to present to said book agent once I would find my book agent. And so happened to be at lunch one day shared the idea with another friend of mine, and he said well if you want to get into it, this is the book agent that you need to get. So she's going to be really difficult. I don't even know if you can get to her but say that I give her my name as a as a referral. And so I did. And truth be told like I never even talked to another agent. I talked to her over the phone - really liked her really like what she had to say.

R: Did you prepare heavily for the conversation?

L: No, I think I was like on deadline for World News that night and probably had like…

R: I know those calls, where you're like I don't even know if I can do this call right now. I'm kind of taking e-mails from people internally because they're saying like we need this. Yeah. Awesome.

L: And so I listened to her, I said you know I was going to get back to her and and you know throw the idea by a few other agents but I didn't because I know I didn't. Well I didn't have the time but I but I really liked her. I would have made the time.

R: It was meant to be.

L: There was something about her and her voice that I, that I trusted and liked and felt like we would be good partners together. And so from that point she agreed. She said you know I think that you know she suggested that I partner with Joseph Bottum and who's the poet. And so we kind of refined the words a little bit, we changed the title kind of freshened it up and then she said she would market it around and Zondervan was our first choice, and Zondervan it was like sold right away.

R: What does Zondervan do in the whole process?

L: OK so it's a division of Harper Collins So they’re the publishers, and so Zonderkidz really was actually specifically the publisher for the children like religious children's books and so they then gave me the options of illustrators and then presented Lucy Fleming as an option. Loved her work, and then they kind of decide with the illustrator. What book layout and structure all of that was out of my hands which could not have been more fabulous because I didn't have the time to do all of that. And so I appreciate then you automatically have this team, and everybody who's they’re running ideas by you, which is I'm great at that. Like I don't want to necessarily have to brainstorm from the beginning to end. But if you give me an idea as I can tell you what I like and what I don’t like.

R: This sounds great. Sign me up.

L: Everybody can write a children’s book right yes that’s the whole point.

R: So you find your amazing agent, you find your publisher, you work with the publisher’s team.

L: Right.

R: And how much time goes by between that dinner that you had with your friend where you were sold on the idea versus we've got the book out.

L: Right. So probably a year and a half.

R: How did you come up with the storyline in the first place?

L: So the foundation of the book is Psalm 1 18:24. This is the day the Lord has made let us rejoice and be glad in it. And so the first line in the book is This is the day the Lord has made. But instead, it goes like, a butterfly flows through the sun in the shade. So it's just really and you can see underneath the titles as a celebration of everyday blessings and so that's really where we decided to go it’s just kind of like a typical walk through the day from the sunrise to sunset. All of God's handiwork and the blessings that abound and that are out there that often as adults we take for granted. I think that for me until I had a son I really stopped looking at bunny rabbits or sun or snowflakes.

R: It wakes you up right.

L: Right. But they are not things that you really are you know like for today. It's snowing outside right. And so you might think oh gosh, what a headache it's going to be a longer commute in. But my son is out there with his mitt and like look at the snowflake you know, and really when you take time to look at snowflakes it's like wow yeah that is pretty miraculous. Look at that and you can marvel at it. And so I think that they can help us see with better eyes when you look at a child's excitement at the world and how alive the world is. And the illustration probably took the longest time. There is a lot of space, a lot of you know between the beginning and the end where you're not really actively doing much of anything at least from my perspective. Now it becomes like a big you know the surrounding the promotion and release date then it becomes like a really busy busy time.

R: Yeah. Now you're basically on the road talking to people promoting the book.

L: Right, soon to be but then that's where you know I still have my day job. You know I mean last week I was in Lansing, Michigan all week with the Larry Nassar sentencing hearing. So it's…

R: How are you going to do this Linsey?

L: You know, it's there in lunch breaks and you know and cell phones and Ipads and all that.

R: Will your son Aidan be traveling with you?

L: No no no.

R: Do you ever take him with you when you're traveling for a story or something like that?

L: Well when there is a local story that breaks on Fridays, he is with me. And it's really crazy the things that I've taken him. I actually have a picture with the truck up and a photographer and sound man when we were at. It's a really sad. It was. It was a fatality. It was a really sad story. I won't even share because people are going to be like you took your son? But he didn't, he was maybe like eight or seven months old. But on Fridays I always try and have it be a day that I work from home when I can. And we give like the woman who normally watches him off on Friday. So when I get that call, I do have a plan B if I if I it was like I needed to get on a plane or something then obviously I would I would have a plan in action. But I like to keep him with me. And so he's been to some really crazy things that he you know for him. And I have some really great pictures that we've captured. You know the producers have been on live on the scene with me where he's like sitting in the case in Times Square as we're talking about some terror plot or something and he's just like there like tututu or like you know watch on a cell, on a cell phone playing a game. It's just like part for him, of of what I have.

R: It’s take your child to work day.

L: Right. And and it was funny because just maybe two weeks ago I had rushed back from Mexico City and I had to be back and actually had to kind of cut the story short and people at that moment the shoot had kind of run a little bit long. And so they were like well can't you just fly back tomorrow. And I was like no, I can't and I didn't really think that anybody would understand but I promised my son that I was going to be back to talk to his class of 3 year olds the junior pre-K about the book and what I do for a living. And so all the different parents were coming in to talk about what they do. And so I just didn't want to disappoint my son. And so I made it back and talked to him about it, and and so it was cute. We had the kids come up and they pretended to hold microphones and my son got up and talked about Spiderman. And they did live reports as what they were doing into their microphones. And so he talked to them about what I do. As far as he knows, he said I work at ABC and I'm on TV and he knew the title of the book. And then that was… We were good. So. So it's it's as any as any working mom knows I mean it's a big juggling. You learn how to multitask better than you ever have before.

R: You seem, just from hearing you talk about it you just seem to have such a good attitude about it. I don’t know I mean. Is that just who you are, or has that evolved over time?

L: I think a lot of moms you do you just, it's something that you just just like anything else it's not even being a mom it's just like whatever the task is at hand right. You just, I don't think that it pays to have that pessimistic outlook on whatever it is if it's something that you have to do, better to do it with a smile. Better to do it with a positive outlook because it still is going to have to happen. And so you still are going to have to go through it. And so rather than be like, oh I can't believe this isn't going to be able to happen or how am I going to make this work. I always kind of take the aspect, the attitude of like OK so what what needs to happen for this to happen you know. And somehow it always happens. And I think that’s partially due to what we do for a living where every day there's a deadline. I mean there are few maybe surgeons maybe there are a few. I think occupations out there that have just every day maybe those three deadlines like we have where a minute too late is too late.

R: Yeah.

L: And so I think that you become very good at managing your time just based on the profession that we're in.

R: So you grew up, you got your start…As a little kid you were…

L: So I grew up in New Jersey with mom dad and older sister. I went to the University of Virginia.

R: So you you went to UVA just like our producer Taylor Dunn which we point out any time anyone comes here that went to UVA she's cheering in the other room. So you studied there. You studied psychology.

L: Yes.

R: And then did you practice anything post-graduation or did you go straight to NYU?

L: So I was one of those people who didn't decide what I wanted to do until it was too late. And so I think I was my third year maybe second semester first or second semester when I decided I wanted to go into journalism. But UVA at the time did not have a mass communications program. However, I didn't want to have to transfer schools, or graduate later and I hadn't done the necessary. I hadn't done any internships and so that was really problematic. And so I then essentially you know my parents paid I guess like a $50,000 dollar internship opportunity right. I mean I went to NYU strictly so I can get an internship because I don't know if it's still structured the same way. But at that time you had you could only get an internship for college credit. You couldn’t just say, I'll work for free.

R: Things are changing now. There are some laws that have changed around that since then. But I understand what you're saying most most places in journalism at that time would not pay you for the internship.

L: And you couldn't even do it for free.

R: Right. Because of the legalities around like you have to get credit, college credit for it. And that still comes up I think in some cases. But there's there's been laws that have been passed since then that people have to be compensated for their time.

L: Got it. I mean it makes sense, but I think it's better now that you may not have to and that you can get paid. Most internships I think now in this business are paid.

R: What was the first internship you did?

L: So WNBC I interned in their digital, which at the time was like next to nothing. I mean digital really we’ve seen like how that has just taken off now. But this is going back to maybe 2000. So like 18 years ago. So it was very it was very archaic like you know just like typing the very basic news story that happened. Certainly this wasn't like something that was going to pop up on your cell phone or anything like that.

R: But you didn't really have one for it to pop up on.

L: Right. There was no. There was no screen. You would know all about that when that happened. So so I went right to NYU and then fortunately then got my first job in Syracuse, New York and I kind of did a lot of hopping hopscotching around. I worked at CBS in Syracuse then let's see ABC in Flint, Michigan and then NBC in Indianapolis and then came here.

R: And how were you handling that in early stage? Did you have an agent in the very beginning?

L: No. So I didn't get an agent until I was trying to come here, until I was trying to come to the network and I had this goal in mind that by the time for whatever reason I had set these just like benchmarks for myself by the time I was 25 I, wanted to be in a top 25 market. So I got into the 25th market.

R: What is the 25th market?

L: So at the time it was Indianapolis. I don't know what it is now but at the time it was Indianapolis.

R: And when did you set the goal that at 25. You wanted to be in a top 25?

L: So I guess it must have been. I was probably like 23.

R: Got it.

L: And so yes by the time I was, I don’t know where I got that from I was like that I just like nailed it right on 25 then I wanted to be at the network by 30 and so right... Right before I did, I was like 29 and a half. When I when I got here but I got an agent like right before that to make sure that I was going to deliver on that.

R: And how did you make that transition to the network. How did how did the whole thing come to be?

L: Well I were you know as far as how did I get the job?

R: Yeah. How did you get on their radar in the beginning or or were you reaching out, was your agent reaching out?

L: So back then I'm now going to really date myself with VHS cassette tapes right. And so you would make those of your reel and your best best work. And so I would kind of send those out but NABJ which is the National Association of Black Journalists has a convention and happened to have one in Indianapolis. And there was a woman unbeknownst to me who worked here at the network who lived or visited part time I guess visited her brother who lived in Indianapolis so she would see me. I anchored at the time the weekend news and would see me and apparently had mentioned something to one of the women who was in the hiring and recruiting here. And so I met up with them when I was in Indianapolis at the convention. And then they said hey you know why don't we have you come to New York at some point. And I was still under contract in Indianapolis and they made it very casual and they didn't even say they had a job opening. So I just kind of came and met with a bunch of people, and really was thinking that this was just to keep me in mind for down the road when they had an opening. And when it would work out perfectly in line with my contract being open and then that night they called my agent and said we want to offer Linsey a job. And I I was at my parents house and I jumped up like in a cartoon and kicked my heels and then got very down because I was still in the midst of a contract. So I had a great offer, but then had a lot of work to do in order to try and figure out because the boss that I had at that time was not willing to just let me go.

R: Oh my gosh. So yes so for people who aren't familiar with this in our business, we have these contracts and oftentimes the contracts are very ironclad they’re for a certain amount of time and they have things called non-compete agreements, a lot of the time so that if you even get offered a job outside of the company where you currently work, you can't go take that job. In many cases for another six months if you decide to go take another job. So how did it work itself out?

L: So it’s very complicated and hairy and required a lawyer and it was a very it was a really tough period.

R: That is tough because you've worked so hard at this point to not burn bridges, to develop relationships. You want to be true to your word but you also don't want to pass up the greatest opportunity of your life.

L: Exactly. And you know it's very rare when everything aligns just right where there's that job opening of the place that you want to go, and you're released from your contract to the place that you're leaving or are currently in. And so. So then I just have to say it was a matter of God intervening and really worked it out.

R: You have now covered so many major events something that we didn't even touch on - the Lil Wayne interview.

L: Lil Wayne.

R: How did that, so just tell the audience a little bit about what happened there and what you were thinking. Seeing all of it take place.

L: So Lil Wayne and I'm actually a bit you know I did a radio interview shortly after I interviewed Lil Wayne and they said oh so I guess you're never going to listen to his music it's been... You know I have to say I still listen to a Lil Wayne every once in a while. He's very talented lyricist and so I don't have anything bad to say about him in that way. So we did an interview with Lil Wayne and we covered a number of topics. I thought it was actually a pretty fascinating interview just his thoughts on. At the time it was the run up to the election. So his thoughts on at the time the Access Hollywood tape had just been leaked or put out there. And so his thoughts on Trump I mean he had really interesting commentary in his views on life really kind of fascinating. And everything was going swimmingly Rebecca until the last question which was about Black Lives Matter and his thoughts on Black Lives Matter because he kind of he had run into a little bit of gotten a little backlash when he had been on a sports radio show or TV show talking about Black Lives Matter prior and so it's just kind of asking you know follow up. And he became really upset about it and but still answered the question and basically was saying he didn't understand. First he said he didn't know what it was.

R: He didn't know what Black Lives Matter was.

L: He said that he didn't know what Black Lives Matter was, which then when we later went back he had said it even on stage at a concert. And so you know it was he did really know but then he proceeded he proceeded to say that you know his life matters and that's what's important. And you know the fact that he has so much money and so his life matters, which may be true that when you accrue a certain amount of wealth that your life becomes in some people's minds more valuable than others. But there was a disconnect. There was an inability for him to especially growing up where he grew up in Holly Grove. And not being able to be sensitive to the plight of black people who at the time. I mean this was again like during this time of the interview there had been several months of black people who were shot and killed by police when there was a question about why they were shot. And so there was an indifference that he had with regard to the whole matter. And so it ended up not going. So all of a sudden it would just turn left and he had some very not so nice things to say about me and…

R: What were you thinking during all of this?

L: Well I just thought you know I didn't take it personally. I wasn't even like mad or offended. I think it's just like you just. There are certain people that you kind of feel like they have their own thoughts and way of expressing themselves and it's not necessarily how you would express yourself but I just felt kind of bad for him that he he felt he needed to you know become derogatory or about me or say you know negative things about me. But I just listened, I listened and you know at times even nodded like I mean that was his perspective and where where he was coming from at that time. I just you know I think that when you do this for as long as we have you just you take the good with the bad and at a certain point I mean certainly there are things that still get to you. But for the most part I think that there is something you know it's not true about yourself and someone is saying this thing you can kind of have a tough skin and just say OK you know that's your opinion.

R: What for you has been the toughest lesson along the way?

L: I think especially in this environment every day you just have to triple check your facts. You just have to be so sure that what you're reporting is accurate.

R: There is almost a skepticism that you need to employ consistently.

L: Yes. And you know Taylor and I were just talking about going to UVA together and the Rolling Stone whole controversy with the rape was the girl raped or was she not by the guys in the fraternity. And since we both went to UVA I mean and it was a very personal story and we were just talking about how the journalist there maybe hadn't done her due diligence and when the subject said oh well my friends would be able to say it but they don't want to talk about it. And so she didn't even call the friends and maybe as a journalist sometimes maybe you would say Oh well I have to trust the subject and they don't want to talk. But but then you have to think again and say well let me just make sure I've dotted the I and and just call them anyway. And I'll leave a voicemail and they'll never call me back. But at least I've done that. And I think that now it's more important than ever that you just have to make sure that you're not thrown into that fake news category. I mean because there are so many people looking to put you into that. And and so I think it's just a matter now of just being so sure in a way that I think that before there was a little bit of leeway I don't think that that leeway is really there anymore.

R: And the question that I ask everyone. The worst advice that you've received along the way.

L: Whoa man. The worst advice. Well you know what I think that I don't know if someone actually ever told me this but it was a mindset that I had, which was just to kind of well well you know it's like the Hamilton play. What was it like smile more was one of the lines and I think that sometimes people don't value how important it is to be nice to people. And I think that that can really go far in your career. I think that there are a lot of people who are at the top here who are not very nice people. But I think for me what has helped me in a number of situations is just you know saying thank you. Or you know just having a certain amount of respect for people who are working around you and with you in any capacity. And I think that there was an idea around a lot of people initially when I when I first kind of especially got to the network. There were people who you know talked about like the brown nosers and the people who are just like it are all about like the relationships and everything. And that's something I've talked to you about that before that I'm just not good at. I mean I need to be better. Something I'm still trying to stretch myself. But I think the same the same vein, while I'm not necessarily that good at that I think that I do value people. And I think that that can you know I don't know how far it takes you but I think that in the end there's something to be said for it. And so.

R: You value people in a genuine way.

L: And I… I really do.

R: I know. I see it. I know it.

L: I'm glad to know that it's that it's recognized, but I don’t know in the end at the end of the day I feel better about where I am and maybe I haven't climbed the highest in the career that I would have maybe if I had had you know developed more the relationships. But yeah again I'm still working on that. But I see a lot of people who only value the relationships and they don't value the people and I think that it could be flipped around. To work a little bit differently.

R: I completely agree with that. And I also think to that point those the people who are focused solely on the politics of the moment in my experience feel the emptiness and that to me is not success. Like that's not the success that I personally want. You talking about the genuine relationships that you've developed. Those are part of what fulfills. Like having the title and the things and the great great things that you've experienced, your incredible achievements. That's great but if all the other things don't exist I don't think you would feel fulfilled by it.

L: Exactly. And that's what's so important is is feeling fulfilled. You know I mean and just like back to the book just for one nano second, I am already satisfied with the book I would of course I'd like for it to sell and become you know something that people desire to have for their children. But I'm already satisfied with it, just because it exists. And just if my son enjoys it and the two of us can then have that just b. You know reading my book to him, I'm already my cup is already filled you know. And so I don't want to you know, of course I'd like to sell books but I really already feel like happy and fulfilled and satisfied.

R: That is awesome. Well the book is called The World Is Awake and I definitely think that people should be buying this book because it is a beautiful book and there's a beautiful person behind it Linsey Davis inside and out. Thank you so much for joining us on No Limits.

L: Thank you for having me. Rebecca I just want to as a side note to say thank you for whether on air or off air behind the scenes always just being like such a friend and good listener and support. I so appreciate you.

R: Likewise. Genuinely, thanks.