The lie that split Directors & exposed Ben Ward for putting the construction industry in the U-bend of a blocked toilet.

What would you pay for a freelance setting out engineer with two years experience and no kit in London??

?My opinion ￡200-￡220 per day. ?

?Someone has just demanded ￡275 per day. ?

?What would you pay??

The common perception is that we enter LinkedIn with a 'Professional Mindset' but it is also commonly accepted that it can be challenging to separate our professionalism from our power & authority, so it can quickly feel like the right place to vilify & scoff at anything challenging our own thought-processes... or in some cases, the same thought-processes presented in different ways.

Now viewed by over 50,000 Construction professionals, one of my recent posts was constructed very simply in three parts:

1. A very straight-forward question: "What would you pay for a freelance setting out engineer with two years' experience and no kit in London?"
2. An opinion: "My opinion is ￡200-￡220 per day"
3. A lie: "Someone has just demanded ￡275 per day"

The closing statement (aka my lie) should not really change the scope of the conversation but as it personifies the job title and gives the audience someone to root for, it does appear to evoke emotion.

I have a very accomplished and active network to rely on for any holes in my knowledge and anyone can go to my feed and scroll through the posts to see senior business members contributing invaluably to questions asked, even introducing other contributors who will give and get value from the conversations - it is something that I am very grateful to be a part of and I was undoubtedly reminded why by this particular thread.

The comments are quite indicative of which words certain LinkedIn users had consumed from the original post and amongst the laughing-crying emojis & point-missing comments, there was a section of comments dominated by Directors, Hiring Managers and experienced Surveyors & Engineers who were also struggling to agree on a fair rate, and even on the expected capabilities. Some of the viewpoints still perplex me, like the Engineers with 18 years' experience on ￡300 per day who still believe that their 2-year-experienced hypothetical counterpart is worth the same rate, or the seasoned Project Manager who suggested that a junior engineer should be paid more than an experienced floor tiler on the basis that the floor tiler couldn't work without setting out being done... (Someone call Korec and increase their rates).

Over the last two years, I have been well-involved in the engineering & surveying sub-sectors via market-leaders and industry-innovators that have given me an excellent insight into the geospatial world and the skill sets behind it. I sit between different companies with different uses for the Engineering & Surveying skill sets and I have noticed ambiguity and disparity behind the job titles, necessary capabilities/credentials and associated costs, so it made sense to me to start a conversation between the professionals who are paying and being paid these rates.

Senior Managers & Directors conversed about whether or not an Engineer needs to be qualified and whether or not the experience spoke for more or less than academia. Subsequent to claims that Midlands & Manchester-based Engineers are earning in excess of ￡350-day without kit, another Managing Director shared contradictory advice to "get an engineer from up north" because he "heard they work for peanuts", whilst Canadian contributors told us that it "gets difficult to even think about getting out of bed for less than ￡500 a day. And that is an 8 hour day including travel", whilst other conflicting claims included rates from ￡180-day up to ￡700+ per day and a plethora of different benefits, terms and expectations in between.

Interesting comments, the sad fact is the whole industry does not recognise what work, investment (financial & time) & experience the job requires. Agencies need to understand the work and push back on clients that are looking for someone for for ￡350-day (including agency fees etc) Rates have not increased since 2007 yet expenses have exponentially increased.

Brett Horlock - Scan Tech Surveys

Other comments revealed Senior Engineers working on freelance contracts with some of the UK's most prestigious main contractors were once working with the same companies on the premise of long hours, weekend work and site management duties for ￡30,000 annual remuneration on permanent contracts. Some Engineers suggested that any main contractor with self respect should have kit on site and only use experienced people (completely ruling out the hypothetical character and his two-years' experience), whilst others swooped in to claim that some engineers prefer their own kit for their own peace of mind and productivity.

Some LinkedIn users predictably see public opinion posts as opportunities to validate themselves by way of vilification so I knew I would get a "Lol good luck finding an engineer for 220 per day in London" (even if I was surprised to get it from a Director), and I predicted that I would be called a "Tight F*cker" but I honestly did not foresee it being followed by "you [sic] are the reason why this industry is in the U-bend of a blocked toilet!!!"... And fittingly on the subject of blocked, a respectable BIM Manager and a long-term connection literally blocked my LinkedIn profile for having the audacity to reach out to my network on the basis that I should have gone to real professionals (sorry, not my words).

"If a professional networking platform such as LinkedIn isn't the correct place for someone to ask for informed opinions on something like market rates I don't know where is"

Rob Latimer, Meridian Business Support

The overall course of the conversation was productive and respectful but instead of answering the initial question, it seems to have instigated a hundred more. Of course, everyone has strong opinions when it comes to money but the cold reality seems to be that we are worth what we can get. Variations are seen under every job title but what some people viewed as an audacious question has evidently highlighted a real area for discussion.

For anyone who is vaguely interested in the expectations surrounding Engineers or how companies along the supply chain view each other, themselves and their counter parts, then this thread offers a unique insight straight from the industry's fingertips: https://bit.ly/WhatWouldYouPayEngineers

"I think most people that have commented haven't read your post fully and are too eager to shoot you down without reading the facts" - Nick McHugh