Lessons Learned: How to Win or Fail in a Job Interview

After being in private practice as a successful public speaking and communication skills coach for 14 years the chance to apply for a seasonal job from my past life appeared. My past life was that of an actress, theatre maker and drama conservatory teacher. This opportunity as a summer conservatory director would be a short-term commitment, part time three months, near full time for two months then done. “I could do this.” I thought. “Not only could I do it, I could do it better than anyone else likely to apply.” And considering I am particularly successful coaching interview skills, I assumed the interview process would be easy.

This is a company I’ve watched for 20+ years. I’ve taught at this conservatory intermittently covering for other teachers. I even took the course in question myself in my mid 20s. It was a “disjointed course” meaning the classes lacked connection. The voice teacher never connected vocal development to character work. The acting teachers did not connect acting to voice or movement. It seemed to be a bunch of classes just thrown together. The common thread in the course was that the teachers were nice. Really nice.

The teachers were primarily tenured style educators or actors who had strong cache. There is something to be said for instructors that are actively in the business, especially teaching audition technique. They have helpful advice, are realists and are generally in the student’s corner rooting for them. Tenured “style” teachers are teachers that have been at an institution for so long that no one questions their pedagogy even if it’s lacking or outdated. A good example of this phenomenon is the voice and speech teacher at this institution who still uses Edith Skinner’s book Speak with Distinction written in 1942 as his textbook. The accent or “good speech” outlined in the book is called the Transatlantic accent. This style of speech was used to train actors in the mid 1900s such as Kathrine Hepburn and Cary Grant among others. It died out by the early 1970s, though you can hear traces of it in interviews with Gore Vidal, Jacklyn Kennedy Onassis and other late high society non actors. Why is it in a conservatory in 2023? Even Jack Lemmon calls it out in 1959s Some Like it Hot yelling at Tony Curtis “what’s with that phoney accent? NO ONE TALKS LIKE THAT!”

So, while I had some pleasant memories from my own time at this conservatory, I thought their curriculum had significant room for improvement.

?I wrote a scathing cover letter not holding back on my critiques of the program and much to my surprise the conservatory director reached out for an interview. The interview was one hour long. He was warm, kind, easy to talk to and overall a very strong interviewer.

?First Interview: Off to a Great Start!

This particular director was good at articulating the goals of the conversation. This gave me a chance to collect my thoughts and lay out the road map of the interview. He also used a very warm tone while speaking and made statements that put me at ease such as “we are here to get to know each other, I have some questions about your cover letter and I’m very interested to hear more about you.” These may seem like obvious statements but tone in an interview is everything if you want to establish rapport and get thoughtful, honest answers out of your interviewee. His was warm and genuinely curious.

I was fast-tracked onto the next two rounds of interviews. The next would be with two other directors. I was told that the focus would be on pedagogy and an opportunity to ask questions about the conservatory as a whole. The third and final interview would be with the support team. The support team handles the admin tasks, scheduling and basic support of the entire conservatory.?

Second Interview: Job Interview or Interrogation?

This next interview did not go as well as the first. I was zooming in from my San Francisco office, having just coached three in-person public speakers back-to-back. I needed a minute to transition my brain to interviewee mode. My ability to switch was not strong. I felt under prepared. I took a breath and led with my usual warm, authentic and approachable style I try to bring to all professional meetings. I was hoping the conversation would be about pedagogy which it was to some degree. “Tell me a story about a teaching experience that went really well and one that went really wrong” was immediately asked by the male 50 something year old director. I answered honestly and descriptively and at the same time couldn’t help but notice how odd the question was. It’s a question you would normally ask a teacher you are thinking of hiring not a director of a program that would be hiring you. Even so, he was sincere, welcoming and very personable. I could tell he cared deeply for his role, the institution and it’s success. I imagine he is quite easy to work with and well-respected. Unfortunately, there was absolutely no warm feelings, rapport or connection made with the other interviewer.

The female interviewer was a combative millennial who fired three-part questions at me in rapid succession almost as if she was using some kind of Socratic method of interviewing. Or perhaps she trained with political strategist Steve Schmidt who takes credit for the “gotcha” method in political debate? Her first question was “what curriculum have you designed for the program?” To be clear, I was not asked to design a curriculum as part of the interview process. So, this question was a surprise. If a team of interviewers want the candidate to design something that should be clear ahead of time. Just like it would be in any other industry. When I answered the question “I have not designed a program yet. I’d like to see the curriculum from the past three years, what worked and didn’t work and go from there….” she replied with an accusatory tone “Fine. Then what would a day look like?” I explained that a day in drama training should start with physical classes; movement, Alexander Technique, voice and speech then move into scene study and Shakespeare in the second half of the day once the actors are warmed up and prepared. Her question was a fair question. However, I did not understand her tone or why she threw her hands in the air then slapped them in her lap as if she was already fed up just seconds into the interview. As mentioned, the following questions were three-parters spoken incredibly fast. I could only assume she was trying to throw me off or testing how I might parry against a volley of complicated questions delivered interrogation-style.

I’ve coached speakers from 37 countries, who come from performing arts, science, AI, medicine, technology and host of other industries. ?So, listening to fast, difficult to decipher information is not a weakness of mine. However, I do have a personal weakness or distaste for this type of personality. My default in this kind of situation is to go quite high status ie; slowing down my speech, using very still body language and a completely neutral tone which makes it almost impossible to read my mood or feelings. Therefore, placing me in a position of power. While she was putting off a constant current of “you need to prove yourself to me” subtext. I was not taking it. One of her three-part questions ended with “what’s an example of good pedagogy?” I asked the other interviewer how he teaches. It’s important to note here: I would be hiring him as a teacher for the summer program should I get the job. After he answered I stated, “that’s good pedagogy.” The power play ended with a silent dirty look from her and my understanding that I would not be getting the position. Even so, I stayed warm and friendly in my delivery and thanked them for taking time from their day to meet with me.

Third and Final Interview: Smooth Sailing

This interview was a breath of fresh air after facing the 30-minute good cop bad cop routine a few days before. The two interviewers were kind, welcoming and very prepared. No hidden agendas, no attempts to rattle me; just relevant questions delivered in a respectful manner.

They were honest, forthright, and caring. It was clear from their questions such as “do you get stressed from having a lot of classes to schedule and how do you communicate when stressed?” that they might not always be treated as well as they should. I’ve seen other admin support at different conservatories be blamed and treated with condescension when things don’t go well. I got the impression that might be happening here. I had a lovely hour-long conversation with these two and their ability to structure the interview, stay on time, stay focused and respectful made this the smoothest and most fruitful interview of the three. It’s interesting what can be accomplished if you are willing to leave your ego at the door and focus solely on the task at hand.?

Silence for Seven Weeks

I was told I would hear from the Director within two weeks. Seven weeks later, I did hear from him an hour and a half after submitting this article to American Theatre Magazine.

No Job Offer: Important Lessons Learned

For the interview that didn’t go well I likely would have not changed much. I could have passive aggressively asked the young woman what was bothering her, but it wouldn’t have changed the outcome. I could have been more prepared to discuss recruitment of students had I assumed this would be a hot topic. Which it was. Instead, I pushed my abilities and track record as a producer. A producer’s job is to fill the seats. If the “seats” are students, then that’s what we do. This may or may not have translated. I also would have or should have checked my own ego. When I was asked in the third interview if I was comfortable speaking in public as part of the recruitment process, I paused and answered, “I have weaknesses, public speaking isn’t one of them.” I wasn’t expecting this question. I am a successful public speaker and speaking coach. My book on the topic “Grace Under Pressure: a Masterclass in Public Speaking” has been internationally successful, translated into three languages and I’ve spoken to large live audiences many times. Asking me if I’m comfortable public speaking is like asking Mike Tyson if he’s comfortable in a boxing ring. Again, my ego got in the way. I could have simply conveyed excitement and enthusiasm for chance to speak on behalf of the school. Which I did to a degree but the Chandler Bing-esque initial response was likely unnecessary.

?

So, in the end what I learned was…even coaches need coaching, run-throughs and advice.

I researched each interviewer, but I could have done more to see the interview process from their point of view. Perhaps they were quite stressed about finding the perfect person and acknowledging that stress and asking about their concerns would have helped to bridge the gap in the second interview. I could have held a run through of an interview with a colleague to work on my weaknesses and perhaps sought advice from an outside perspective. Again, I’m not sure it would have changed the outcome, but I would have felt better about what I brought to the table. Which in the end, is the best anyone can hope for in an interview.