Leadership insights from three women C-suite leaders at USA for UNHCR

At USA for UNHCR, three of the four members of our C-suite are women: Me; our Chief Human Resources Officer Apryl Evans; and our Chief Development Officer Lacey Stone. Late last year, the three of us sat down with story coach Amanda Hirsch to talk about our shared leadership experience. What follows is an edited transcript of our conversation.

Growing up, did you see leadership as something that was equally available to people of all gender identities? What do you think helped shape your view?

Apryl: I grew up in a church environment largely dominated by men. In my household, my father was the breadwinner and the primary decision-maker; at least, this was my perception as a child. My school leaders were predominantly men as well, making it rare to see women in leadership roles.?

While I don’t recall many examples of women in traditional professional leadership positions, I learned important lessons about serving others that continue to resonate with me today. The strength and resilience of the women in my family and community profoundly influenced me and shaped my understanding of servant leadership.

Lacey: My father was in the military; his father was in the military. I have two brothers. I was the only girl. A lot of what I saw in my household was what I thought was unfair treatment based on gender. I remember when I was a teenager, and my younger brother had a later curfew than I did. In my teenage brain, I was like, “This is a social justice issue,” and made the case as to why this was inherently unfair, and my curfew needed to be later. I was rewarded growing up in times when I demonstrated leadership and when I stood up for what I saw was some sort of injustice, even if it was as simple and inconsequential as my curfew time.?

But it really was because I had to, because the system, even my familial system, was set up to put the one daughter at a disadvantage, as compared to my brothers. My mom was my biggest advocate. She’d say, “Stand up for yourself. If you don't like it, if you want to change it, then you should do something about it.” That really gave me the permission to become who I became, which is someone who stands up for what I believe in.

Suzanne: I think I understood from a young age — growing up in South Texas in a fairly traditional white, middle class, Catholic family — that women were exerting leadership from non-traditional leadership spaces. I got it, but it didn't seem fair to me that we couldn't have both — that, for example, at church, we couldn't be on the pulpit in charge and, you know, also plotting in the kitchen.?

When I was working at a landscaping company one summer, I was the best forklift driver. We had to lift those really big pallets of grass. So many men would come to us —?our prices were the best in town — but they wouldn't buy grass from us, because they didn't want me to load it onto the back of their pickup truck... which, by the way, was already banged up. This shaped my view that many men would rather take an economic hit than trust a woman’s capabilities and competence. Their loss.??

When did you first identify as a leader?

Lacey: I was fairly junior in my career. And it wasn't somebody saying, “Okay, Lacey, you're now in a leadership position,” or, “Now you have direct reports, so you're a leader.” Rather, I learned that whether you manage other people does not determine whether you are a leader. Leadership isn’t determined by your position in the organization or your title. You can lead from every seat, so think about what you can influence from the seat that you're in. Having influence is what makes you a leader.

Apryl: From a very young age, I have been called a “natural born” leader. Like Lacey, I am the youngest and only girl in my family, however I still proudly served as the leader among my siblings. Throughout middle and high school, I consistently led my peers in student government, often finding myself in the principal’s office negotiating for better student benefits — it felt completely natural to me.

In 10th or 11th grade, when a new student expressed interest in running for president, I decided to support her instead of competing against her. I offered to run for vice president to mentor her, which turned out to be a rewarding experience — my first opportunity to serve as a peer mentor.?

Reflecting on my journey, I realize that one of my strengths — and perhaps my calling — is to create opportunities for others, recognizing their potential and helping cultivate their talent.

Suzanne: The story that keeps coming to mind is one of my first jobs in Washington. The CEO at the time was out with a medical issue, and she had left other people in charge in interim leadership roles. The board had us on a call when it became clear that this medical issue was going to become something more significant. I remember the glass conference room we were sitting in — we called it the fishbowl — and the star-shaped phone we used for conference calls. To this day, I remember, I snapped into something, and was like, “I need to drive this conversation. I have to keep the board confident in what we can manage.” I remember sitting up straight and leaning in and laying out a strategy for how we were going to get through, however long it was that the CEO was going to be out of the office.

After the call ended, I got back to my office, and my phone rang, and the board chair at the time was on the phone. And she said, “Will you serve as interim president?” I had just found out I was pregnant with daughter Dahlia. And I said, “Yes.”

You three represent three of the four members of the organization’s C-Suite, along with Brian Davis, USA for UNHCR’s CFO. It’s unusual to have such a female-heavy C-suite, even in the nonprofit sector, which employs more women than business or government. I’d love to hear your reflections on this experience.

Lacey: I have never in my life experienced a group of leaders, of people, who I have so much trust and so much confidence in. And, you know, I don't always agree with Apryl. I don't always agree with Suzanne or with Brian, but the level of mutual respect that exists, the level of camaraderie, the feeling that we're all in this together —?I've never experienced this anywhere else.?

Apryl: I completely agree. We’re on this journey together. And there’s still work to be done —?in any relationship, active engagement is crucial; otherwise, we risk taking things for granted and letting communication break down. It’s essential for our leadership team to continuously build trust in order to achieve our goals and make the impact we desire. I would also highlight the importance of having a leadership team that aligns with our company values while intentionally leading with transparency and respect.

Suzanne: I agree, trust is so important —?building trust, maintaining trust, continuing to invest in trust, and remaining vigilant about trust, if you will. I would put that first and foremost. I also feel like our entire executive leadership team are people who think institutionally first. There's a collaborative spirit; we’re trying to lift all boats and take the organization forward. And we all know that you can't take the organization forward just based on good fundraising results, or just based on a solid audit or even just based on a great HR benefits package. There's a really seasoned and shared understanding that it takes all of us.?

And we all care about the culture here. At lunch today, I was saying to our new VP of Strategy and Impact, Jonathan Apikian, that when you open up the possibility for transparency and collaboration, when you make the environment one where people feel supported and like they're allowed to fail, and they can be candid —?people lean in, and they make it a more vibrant and dynamic workplace. And I think we all share responsibility for having created those conditions.

How do you complement each other as leaders?

Suzanne: Well, one thing we have in common is that we all address issues pretty directly —?none of us relishes conflict or confrontation, but there's been a shared willingness to be candid and open with each other. As far as ways that we’re different, Lacey is the most driven to create systems, in a way that I admire; I use some of her systems and appreciate how they help to clarify responsibility. She’s helped me to bring more order and clarity around expectations and accountability. Apryl brings such incredible fluidity and flexibility. She recognizes that our people are our biggest asset and they are also the most unpredictable thing that you work with in any workplace. I've never been able to rely on an HR team as much as I rely on Apryl's team.?

Lacey: I leverage Apryl as a thought partner a lot. She has challenged me in ways that have been healthy and good for my professional growth, helping me think about things from a different perspective. And Apryl and I know we're both D style on the DISC spectrum, and for me, that makes the communication all the easier —?because we can have a very direct back and forth.

And then with Suzanne, I think of the comfort that I have in knowing that I can go to her with any kind of challenge, any kind of problem, and I don't have to feel as though I'm going to be blamed or like somebody's in trouble. While I very much strive to come to my CEO with a solution, I also know that with Suzanne, I have the ability to say, “I don't have a solution. I really just need help.” And she has this ability to create a comfortable container where you know she's got your back —?no matter what, she's here with you.?

Apryl: It says so much about Suzanne as a CEO that we’re even having this type of conversation. With her, I can always have open conversations, which is crucial (for CEOs and CHROs) to lead a growing organization. She models transparency, collaboration and has a genuine desire to create opportunities for others. Lacey joined the organization in 2021 in a different role. After Suzanne joined in 2023, we worked together to identify the organization's next CDO. Long story short, Lacey applied and was selected. At USA for UNHCR, we don’t just talk about cultivating talent, we practice it. Lacy is a brilliant colleague, and while I feel like she was “hiding in plain sight”, I am thrilled to partner with her on this leadership journey. We are thriving as a leadership team because we're intentionally building an environment of trust, transparency and communication, while holding each other accountable. While we have unique backgrounds, experiences, and perspectives we work to find the best solution in every scenario.?

What advice or guidance might you offer to someone reading this, who doesn’t have these kinds of relationships at work, or work in a workplace like yours?

Suzanne: Roxanne Gay recently concluded that New York Times column that she started during the pandemic about workplace etiquette and advice. And she was on a podcast with Kara Swisher, saying she felt tension at times because people would write her these crazy things and she'd be like, “Just quit! Leave that job!” But she knew she couldn’t just say that, because she didn’t know everything about their circumstances or who they were supporting financially. I say that as a preamble because I know people can’t always afford to leave a job that isn’t working for them. But I do tell people: you’ve got to keep looking for what you deserve. Some of these qualities we've talked about, they're not easy to achieve, and they're not foolproof, but they are at some profound level non-negotiable. I want everyone to be able to go into a workplace and feel a basic sense of trust and safety. I want every organization to try to be more feedback-driven. So if you're looking around you and thinking, “Hey, my current workplace isn't up to snuff, it's not meeting my ideals” — you're probably right. And you should probably look for something else. Because at a place where you spend at least 40, if not more, hours of your week, a match between your values and those expressed by your leadership has a disproportionate impact on how happy and satisfied you are in your life.?

Apryl: Yes, to all of that. And, I’d add: Know when it's time to go. Loyalty is one of my strengths, but it's also my Achilles heel, because in the past I have remained in places and spaces that were no longer suited for me. So, my advice would be, know when it's time for a change. And don't exit when, one day, you experience a frustrating moment. Create a plan for your career and execute against that plan. Trust your gut and when you feel like, “this no longer serves me,” start to put your plan in motion. Over the years, I have learned the importance of ensuring that my career choices align with my personal values.

Lacey: Finding an organization that is reflective of the values that you hold dear is so important. And as folks have mentioned, it's not always as simple as, “I'm just gonna quit and find something different.” But even if you are in a place where it is evident that it's not the right place for you, and it's not going to be the place where you work forever, there are still things within your control that you can shift and change to make it a more positive environment while you're still there.

There's a quote that I really gravitate towards, which is, “We are what we practice, and we're always practicing something.” And so whether that thing that we're practicing is creating a culture or contributing to the culture that we want to exist within our organization, that's something that I think everybody can do.?

And everybody also has control over their perspective. This is something that I talk with my team quite a bit about. Our perspectives are actually our choices; it might feel like they’re the truth, but my perception is not the truth, it’s a truth. So if I'm in a negative space, can I pause, reflect, and then refocus on gratitude? Rather than feeling like, “Someone took this piece of my work away from me, and now I have less responsibility,” maybe you could think, “Now I have more time to focus on X, Y, and Z.” It's the same experience, but the way that you perceive it and the way that you choose to perceive it makes all the difference in the world.