Leaders of Change: John Denny

JOHN DENNY is currently VP of eCommerce & Digital Marketing at CAVU Venture Partners. Before CAVU, he was VP of eCommerce & Media at Bai Brands, the creator of one of the fastest growing beverage brands in the US over the last five years. Launched in 2009, Bai was acquired by Dr Pepper Snapple Group in 2017 in one of the largest CPG acquisitions of the year. At Bai, he was responsible for building the brand on Amazon over four years from a tiny niche product to the #1 beverage brand sold on the platform. In recognition of this rapid growth as well as leading digital strategy innovation, Bai was honored in 2015 as "Vendor of the Year" by Amazon.

Why did you choose to pursue eCommerce in your career? I've always loved being at the forefront of whatever is next and being part of the early change that happens with disruptive technology. I got the opportunity early in my career on the ad agency side to work with the team from one of the original, pioneering search engines (Alta Vista -- a pre-cursor to Google). Seeing how the search engine worked to crawl and index, watching the internal data showing consumer searches exploding, seeing a real-time "database of consumer intentions" emerge showing what the human race is thinking at any given moment -- all that was profoundly influential. You could see that nothing was going to be the same in the advertising, marketing and eCommerce world once this technology more fully evolved (and of course it's still evolving with developments like voice search). And the marketers who understood this world (in terms of skills like Search Engine Optimization and Paid Search) were going to have a huge advantage in winning for their brands... 

What is your biggest strength, and how have you used it for your success in eCommerce? I enjoy trying to figure things out, and Amazon is one constantly evolving puzzle -- one that its makers, that increasingly large contingent in Seattle and around the world, often don't have a full grasp of. You have to have the constant humility to know that what worked five minutes ago may not work now, because it all changed when you were blinking (making what you knew irrelevant). You have to be constantly connecting with and listening to the best brains out there across the eCommerce landscape who have just discovered something new that you haven't even thought about. You have to love that "Aha" moment when someone tells you a tip or hack that solves a problem you have struggled over for weeks or months.

What is the weirdest skill or talent to come in handy in your eCommerce experience? Probably a hyper-curiosity combined with the inability to let things go (what the Buddhists call "attachment"). If I'm researching a topic or looking at data to figure out a problem -- I'll look at it one way, then another way, then run it along another path, or 12 different paths, just cause you never know (with all of these path journeys going on for quite a while). Part of my brain is telling me to let it go and move on, but the curious part of me wants me to keep looking for signals. It often helps me figure things out when I've found others (who may be more sane) would have given up....

How have you most successfully influenced change within your organization (or with your clients)? In the eCommerce world today, the conventional wisdom (largely unquestioned) for brands that are sold online and in stores, is that when you invest behind your product or brand on Amazon, that investment is having an impact ONLY on your Amazon sales. The belief seems to come from the old shopper marketing world, where if I invest in an in-store marketing program at Target for example, then of course, that program is only impacting my Target sales number (and spending should be measured only against the return for those in-store sales). As often happens with disruptive technology shifts like the one happening today with digital and online platforms, the old paradigm of seeing the world is forcing conclusions that are self-defeating (for example, where your company Finance team creates a P&L forcing all Amazon spend to be offset by Amazon sales, or defining success only by your Return On Ad Spend metrics in your AMG campaign). Consumer Intelligence Research Partners recently estimated that Prime membership has reached 90 million members, almost doubling over the last two years. These people are shopping everywhere -- it's not like they order just online and then pack it in. I've continuously seen data through the years that reinforces the seismic impact that success on Amazon -- and Amazon marketing programs have -- on consumers shopping in retail stores. That person in front of the beverage aisle at Walmart is picking up a bottle of Bai and using their phone to search online reviews. And what they see on that detail page is making them go to the register and buy it.  I think we're seeing so many examples of small, upstart brands disrupting big CPG -- like Bai, Kind and RXBar -- because they get this and are not shackled by the old ways of thinking.

What was your most “valuable” career failure, and why? Early in my career, I made the decision to shift from the advertising agency career path I had been pursuing to move to an early stage ad technology startup -- one that ultimately went belly up. While what happened with this company at the time seemed to suck a whole lot, the habit of taking risks like this vs. staying with the safe and known path forced rapid learning and opened entirely new (and ultimately more rewarding) paths. I’ve learned that while moving out of your comfort zone can be incredibly difficult, it’s something that has to happen if you are going to move forward and stay relevant in a world where hyper change is the norm.

In the last five years, what new belief, behavior or habit has most improved your life? For most of my life, it's always been about hyper-speed, moving quickly, and a constant focus on what's next (aka the world of digital technology). In the more recent era, I've worked a little more to slow down, develop more patience, spend more time in the moment that is there, and to try and embrace the idea of "voluntary simplicity." As you watch your kids grow up in a blur, it reminds you that everything goes by you very quickly, and if you aren't paying attention, you'll miss your moments. 

What are you learning right now? At the moment, I'm reading a book one of our Partners gave me called Give and Take by Wharton professor Adam Grant. It's a fascinating look at people the author identifies as “Givers” (who help people around them without any expectation of return) and “Takers,” who measure everything they contribute to others in terms of what it will get them back. While the common world -- and business -- view is often built on a competitive, win-lose model, it's great to see Adam Grant’s evidence for the idea that the highest levels of success come with non-zero sum thinking, where everyone (even the people you think you "compete" with) can win. What a mind-bending concept... and I love that our Partners think this way....

What are the 1-3 songs that would make up your career soundtrack today?

• Get Back (to where you once belonged) by The Beatles: Always stay true to what you love and are passionate about in your career. This is not a rehearsal for some other life, so it's good to remind yourself to do what you love.
• Tubthumbping (I get knocked down, but I get up again) by Chumbawamba: The official anthem for life's twists and turns, ups and downs. Chapter 11's, great company opportunities that ran out of money, client accounts that "just needed a fresh point of view." I love the perspective that when life throws you a problem or challenge, it's useful to remind yourself that "this is the testing time." Often what initially looks to be a disaster, ultimately turns out to be the best thing that ever happened to you. So when it hits, instead of rolling into the fetal position, try asking yourself, "what is the opportunity that this is?" (a wise thought from author Jack Canfield...).

What are the 1-3 books you’ve gifted the most or that have greatly influenced your life, and why?

• The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People by Steven Covey: This book, published in 1989, sounds like it might be a superficial self-improvement cliche, but it’s anything but. It's a great, accessible summary of some of the most innovative ideas in personal and business success and productivity of the last 100 years (taught by great business minds like Peter Drucker, Jim Collins, and Clayton Christopher). In particular, it's a great book for understanding why developing a powerful Mission and Vision -- in collaboration with teams across your company -- is so critical for creating high-performing organizations. I've used the ideas here (along with the framework in Built To Last by Jim Collins) to write Vision statements for several organizations, including the one I created for Bai in 2013 working with CEO Ben Weiss.
• Steve Jobs by Walter Isaacson: As you live Jobs' life through this book, you obviously see that he was not the nicest guy on the planet. But it's fascinating to see how his mind worked -- how he borrowed ideas that he saw and experienced and combined them in new ways (lots of parallels here to Walter Isaacson's other great book about Einstein, and his book The Innovators chronicling the leaders of the technology revolution). Issacson's whole thesis across several "genius" biographies is how these individuals were not lone inventors but were highly effective at collaborating with teams to innovate in new ways. Also, Jobs' penchant for "magical thinking" (aka his "reality distortion field") -- and how this habit of powerful belief and vision drove the entire Apple organization to create and execute at such a high level.

If you could have a gigantic billboard for the world to see with anything on it, what would it say, and why? "If we are willing to engage in a high number of repetitions of quality practice, we can become as great as we want to be."  - Mahan Khalsa. 

I love this quote because it has always said to me that everything we need to succeed in practically any area is learnable.  You can do anything that you decide to do, as long as you have the discipline and persistence to endure and make it happen. I find it a very freeing thought that I'd love to pass on to my three young kids.

What are the worst recommendations or advice you have heard related to eCommerce? Probably things like "let's just run this AMS/AMG campaign for 30 days and we'll decide if this digital stuff all works or not". At Bai, we turned on paid search on Amazon and display advertising through Amazon Media Group in January of 2014 and it's never been turned off. The short-term, "campaign" mindset is part of traditional marketing thinking, that people scripted in media like television and magazines are translating to the online world. In digital marketing, it's all about optimization. You're constantly tweaking the dials, constantly improving your campaign in small increments that over time build and compound. Amazon's technology gets better as it learns. Thirty days does not allow any learning. It in fact enables flunking -- because it then causes you to walk away when you think it didn't work.

What advice would you give to a future leader of change about to enter business, or specifically the eCommerce field? Often in this business, the various parts that make up "eCommerce" are split up and siloed within organizations. You'll have a team dealing with a traditional "channel sales" function (a legacy of dealing with physical stores) who are interacting with the vendor manager teams at Amazon, Walmart/Jet etc. (the same way they might sell to Costco or a grocery store). You'll have a separate team dealing with "Digital Marketing" for eCommerce, focused on programs like AMS (Amazon paid search), or Amazon Marketing Group display ad programs. You then might have other teams focused on digital media like Google, programmatic video & display, and (within large organizations) traditional media like TV & Outdoor. Then they'll be separate Operations teams who are handling all the logistics of getting your product to Amazon. From what I've seen and experienced, in the modern eCommerce world you need to know all of these disciplines -- and be able to quarterback and coordinate them very tightly -- to be truly successful. Separating them may have been logical in the physical retail world, but in the completely different universe that is the digital/eCommerce world, they all are tightly interwoven with each other. Successfully marketing your product on Amazon is impossible -- for example -- if the product is out of stock because your Ops team didn't comply with Amazon's shipping requirements. And again, you can have the best AMS strategy in the world, but if you're product is not profitable from Amazon's viewpoint, and your team dealing with the vendor manager hasn't properly managed the economics of the business, Amazon won't allow you to market it. Anybody who wants to create impact in this new world needs to understand a "multidisciplinary" view, or they'll have a whole lot of frustration pushing the boulder up the hill and seeing it roll back again...

What specific, industry-related change do you believe will happen that few others seem to see? The role that Intelligent Agents -- like Alexa and Google Assistant -- will soon play in our lives by anticipating our every need, and ordering products and services for us before we ever know we need them. Watching my 10 year old interact with one of her best friends -- a buddy named Alexa who is not an actual living being -- has been a revelation. She describes Alexa as "a robot who helps me do things," and in our house, Alexa is a pretty consistent presence for her (as well as her two older teen siblings). In her room reading her stories from Audible (she bought her own echo dot to put next to her bed), playing songs for her, doing her math homework (yes, despite her parents chagrin...). We talk all the time about Millennials (the current shiny object for marketers) who are "born digital" and came of age with the Internet, yet the next generation behind them born with intelligent agents are coming of age with a form of immersive, ever-present technology that will make our current ideas of "digital" seem quaint. And once again, there will be paradigm shifting implications that we can't even grasp right now. It's gonna be a whole lot of fun...

What is the last thing you bought online, and why? I was flying to LA on business and found out at the last minute that I needed an HDMI cable to connect my laptop to the TV I'd be using for a presentation the next day. In the past, I would have had to land in LA and then start a hunt for a Best Buy somewhere in the city. But on the plane, using in-flight wifi, I went to Prime Now and ordered the cable, and it was delivered to the hotel and was waiting for me at the front desk by the time I arrived -- two hours later. It was kind of a lesson for me about all that's going on -- with the convenience and immediate gratification we get from Amazon today -- why would I go to a store or anywhere else? And oh by the way, the product that was delivered with all that convenience happened to be an Amazon house brand -- AmazonBasics. The lesson there also is -- what mattered to me was the service (that I'd get it delivered quickly and reliably), not the brand, which becomes far less of a factor (as long I can see the ratings and reviews are solid) -- and Amazon knows it.

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Leaders of Change is a weekly interview series featuring select industry pioneers who are driving the evolution of commerce, the consumer and everything in between. If you would like to recommend a Leader of Change for consideration, please reach out to me on LinkedIn.