Lattes and Leadership

In my recent conversation with Karen Bhatt, we explored what it really means to lead with authenticity, compassion, and follow-through—qualities that elevate teams beyond mere job performance. Karen shared insights from her leadership journey, including her time at Disney, where understanding each employee’s unique motivations created a culture of trust and respect.

Here’s what I learned from Karen on fostering genuine connections:

1. Get to Know Your Team’s “Why”: Not everyone is motivated by the same things. Some thrive on public recognition, others on small perks. Taking time to understand individual motivations cultivates a deeper sense of buy-in.
2. Celebrate the Specifics: Saying “Thank you” means so much more when it’s intentional. Karen taught me the importance of acknowledging specific actions—like “Thanks for organizing the display so well today”—which makes recognition truly meaningful.
3. Lead with Vulnerability: Acknowledging when you’re not at your best lets your team know it’s okay to be human. When leaders are transparent, it builds a bridge of mutual understanding and relieves employees of unnecessary worry or self-doubt.
4. Show Up Consistently: Leadership isn’t just about giving directives; it’s about standing alongside your team. As Karen said, managers can talk the talk, but leaders walk it too. The power of simple follow-through creates trust and loyalty.
5. Infuse Joy into the Everyday: From small jokes to fun surprises, adding a sense of humour or play can make even the toughest workdays enjoyable and memorable.

In a world that can feel increasingly “shiny” and manufactured, Karen reminds us of the value of leading in a way that is real and meaningful. It’s these small, human moments that turn a job into a community.

Click here to watch the full conversation:

Here is the complete transcript of our discussion:

Matthew

Good afternoon, my name is Matthew Devine, and this is Leadership Impact.?

I have been working in leadership roles for years and years and years, not only for my own career, but also a student of leadership roles. And I have the absolute privilege of being connected with one of my very first managers, but most certainly one of the managers who had a huge impact on how I consider leadership and what is possible in leadership roles. And I'd like to introduce you to her.?

This is Karen Bhatt, who I've known for years, and we're gonna explain the story in a second. But Karen, hello. Can you introduce yourself?

Karen

Certainly, Matthew, and hi everyone who's watching. So just to kind of give you a click, as you said, a high level overview as to who I am and what I do. The first time I was ever given a leadership role, I was 19 years old, and from there, I just kind of kept in management and leadership. I have worked for huge companies like Starbucks, where I was one of their lead facilitators managers, also the Walt Disney Company. I don't speak for the company or the brand, but I certainly was there for quite a few years.?

Currently, right now, I work for a division of medical software, where I go in to offices, hospitals, pharmacies, and I teach medical records software to the those who take care of us. So that's been an interesting change of pace for myself. But that is me in a nutshell.?

Matthew

Awesome. Now you and I met about 20 years ago, when before I even got into corporate at all, before I started my very first corporate job, I was hired at your store, working as a barista at Starbucks.?

Karen

That is correct. That is correct. It's actually more than 20 years my darling, because my child is 22 years old, turning almost 23 and you were definitely around for the birth of that one.?

Matthew

No, not true. Not true. I was hired and my very first day was your first day back from maternity leave. So your daughter was not quite a year old, but certainly close to it.?

Karen

So yeah, and Aiden's about to turn 23, so it's been a while.

Matthew

Now, one of the things I loved working at Starbucks, and I'll tell anyone who asks me about this time, was that Starbucks, for me, my experience was that I could go into work at whatever mood I was in, whatever, you know, like however I was feeling that day, and always leave in a better mood, in a better state of mind, despite having worked possibly a full shift, you know, slugging coffee and carrying out boxes and doing all the things that we do in a retail location.?

But a lot of that, in fact, I would say most of that comes down to what you were to create as the store manager at that time.

Can you tell us just a bit about what it means to be a manager at a retail location, and what did you do to create this amazing experience? Because we're still in touch two decades later, but it's because of that such an awesome experience.?

Karen

Thanks, babes. Well, you know what I mean, I have been a huge proponent of the fact that you should always enjoy the environment you step into. And I don't care if it's where you work, or if it's a social gathering, or perhaps it is, you know, a public event, you should be enjoying your time in there.?

And I find even when it comes down to the job, the the dreaded J, O, B, if you enjoy the people you're with, and you have an atmosphere of fun, you know, almost like a Mary Poppins thing, if it's an atmosphere of fun, it basically makes the time move faster and retail work, let's be honest, is is not a great job. Sometimes it's a very thankless job, and sometimes you're dealing with a lot of angry personalities coming in that tend to take out their emotions on the employees.?

And Starbucks is no different than that. We saw our fair share of some interesting people, but as long as I could keep everybody laughing and smiling and enjoying and feeling like they're part of the atmosphere, right? They're not, you know, they're not observers, they're participants in it. It makes all the difference.?

And that's where you kind of, I mean, we can get into it in a molecular level, but that's where you keep employee retention, right? If people enjoy where they are, they're not going to look for somewhere else, where they're not going to want to be, right? They're going to want to stay you, with you, and that's where loyalty comes into play, right? Where? And loyalty is key for a lot of operations, not just, you know, personally, but also fiscally. It makes more sense for companies to have loyalty, to have less turnaround, because they're losing less money out the door. If that's the case, right??

So my intent was always like, first of all, I need to make it fun for everyone who's there and make it enjoyable even through the hard times. But also, I needed to make it fun for me, because it would kind of help if I'm in a good mood, that's going to make you guys feel pretty good if I'm if I go storming through the door and I'm all, you know, angry and bringing maybe outside things into workplace that's going to make everyone on edge. Nobody's going to want to do their best right or bring their best selves.?

So it was imperative for me that everybody felt good, regardless of of what that looked like.

Matthew

And you did that in space, like, I can't, like my memories are all of the the ridiculous jokes and experiences that we have, and commiserating over the challenging customers, but also celebrating the, you know, some of the most amazing, you know, funny things that take place.?

But there's also a distinction, though, right? You know, you can come in with this fun energy, but you're still a boss, and I don't think any of us working in the store ever lost sight of the fact that you were the boss. How do you create that separation? How do you make that distinction between being chummy with your employees, and yet, at the same time managing the store and having that, you know, concrete leadership presence?

Karen

Well, you know, it's, it's, you know, one before, prior to, obviously, I was talking, I was kind of having a think about that, as to what I could possibly talk about. And the reality is that there is a vast difference between being a manager and being a leader.?

And I always tried to strive on the leader side, because it did allow me that ability, you know, the separation of church and state, so to speak, we could have fun, but we knew that we had to get certain jobs done. So when you're a manager, I feel that managerially, you're task focused, you must do this, to do this, to do this, to do this, your team needs to get these things done, these goals attained. Whereas a leader is like, Hey, I'm going to take you on a trip with me. Here are all the goals in front of us. How do we hit all of these??

Because what happens is, is that, especially in weird hierarchies, if you perceive somebody to be, you know, holier than thou, high on their high horse, you're not going to respect them very much. And it's every time they ask you to do something, you'll do it, but it's very begrudgingly, right? Because you have one coming up with it.?

What I liked to do in Starbucks and even, you know, when I worked for the Walt Disney Company, I wanted to be part of the team. I want to be that leader who says, Hey guys, you know what I got you, regardless of what's going to go down, good, bad or indifferent, I'm going to stand in front of you and I'm going to back you anytime you need me to. But in order for us to do that, I need your help with things, right??

So what I used to do was I would make sure I did everything that I expected my employees to do. If you needed to clean the bathroom, I would clean the bathroom. If you need to wash the floor, I will clean and wash the floor. I will never put myself in a position where I wasn't willing to get on the ground with my soldiers and work at the same time??

And when you have that, that's where that whole loyalty comes in. So then all of a sudden, you know, yes, we can be chummy, chummy. But if you see me taking the hits, standing in front, backing you up, right? Then you still acknowledge me as the leader. You're like, Yes, this is definitely leader, and I'm going to listen to this person. But you also then realize I'm not a threat, right? I'm not the big bad guy on top of you, who's, you know, micromanaging.?

And that was the thing, is, I found it really comes down to people. Managers, I find, are task focused, like I said. Leaders are people focused. And if I can have a moment with you and you respect me, maybe we do have a discipline conversation, right? Maybe you're coming in late all the time, not you, Matthew, You were always prompt. You know, you come in all the time and you're a little bit late. Well, that's, that's a discipline thing. So I might be able to instead of, you know, tearing you a new one in front of all the other employees, or, like, really giving it to you in the back room. How about me as a leader? I approach you and I say, Hey, I noticed that you're late lately. Are you okay? What's going on.?

So we're having that discipline conversation. This person knows that this behaviour is probably not acceptable, but we're meeting in a middle ground that is people focused, and then maybe through that conversation, I find out what's going on, right? Maybe there is a very good reason why this person is late all the time, and if there isn't, then we've had that conversation, and the person knows, okay, the expectation is, from now on, I need to be on time. We're still good, we're still friends. There isn't that awkwardness, right??

So it's, it's one of those things I pride myself on, is because I find for myself too. I think about my own personal experiences. You know, growing up, I started working. I mean, I think it's a Gen X thing. I started working at the age of 14. First job was Cotton Ginny as a stock person. They couldn't have me on the floor. I was too young, but I had some terrible, terrible managers, and so I've always kept that in the back of my head, like that's the experience.?

Do I want somebody else to look at me the way I look at some of my previous managers? The answer is, No, I don't. I want them to to kind of find something in the way that I am leading that they'll be able to take to their next job or their next journey, you know, because that's the whole point of leadership. It is to? inspire. It is to motivate. It is to, you know, nurture and send forward, right? Move forward, everybody moving forward.?

So that's a long winded answer, and I'm so sorry.?

Matthew

No, this is good. This is like, because it weaves in all like the experience I had, and I found myself trying not to get pulled out, because it kept on sparking memories of different experiences that, you know, we had working together, and that connection with people, like, are you okay? You know, checking the person and making sure the person is okay, because you're seeing past whatever the behaviour is to whatever the real issue might be with the individual and that connection with the human is it makes a difference. ?

Now, your current role, you're focusing a lot more on the training side, but you're so you there's a lot of effort and attention being spent on communication.? What are some of the things that you're learning like in your current role when it comes to communicating that leaders should be paying attention to or trying to develop in themselves??

Karen

Oh, absolutely. And what a great question, especially given my current role is the first time I've stepped away from management since 1989 right? I've been doing a management and leadership role since 89 and this time around, I took a step back and I said, No, I just, I just want to be an employee.

And it's interesting on the the flip side, because you can look at because I work for a rather large corporation, like a national corporation, and I look at certain leaderships, certain management and I think, Oh, you're doing it all wrong. And I can see where they're doing it wrong, and I can see the grumblings that are happening with employees at this full, quiet quitting movement and why it is becoming so prevalent, especially in these large corporations, right? The quiet quitting movement. Now, if I had stayed in leadership, I don't know I would have heard as much about it, but because I'm one of the employees, I hear everything, right??

So it's left me realizing that the way we used to run businesses, the way we used to handle our teams and and our goals have changed drastically, and they have done so in the most rapid fire way, especially since COVID came along, and we're starting to see this younger generation come up that have different values and different, what I call buy ins than we did for, you know, older generations.?

So I'm seeing this shift that is happening. And as far as you know, customer focused, right? You know where? Because I am dealing, obviously, with clients who are spending huge amounts of money for the software systems. The human element really has gone out the door. It really has. It has gone out the door as far as as clients go, the way that they treat people that they've hired.

Matthew

Do you think that's accidental, or do you think that's intentional??

Karen

I think it's intentional. Now I think that people are so stressed out, and like I said, the world has changed, right? Decorum seems to have gone out the doorway when it comes to a lot of things. And so people have become very me centric.

What can you do for me? And if you can't do anything for me, I want to talk to your manager. This is terrible. I hate this, like it's this, whereas before those things were, you know, we kept in our heads. You know, we might have said them to other people, but we certainly didn't say them out loud to the people who were in our office spaces or to clients, etc.?

So I'm finding that that's been an interesting kind of path to navigate because, you know, I always joke with especially some of my colleagues now that I am as about as threatening as a Cabbage Patch Kid. I looked the part. I am that person, right? I am the Cabbage Patch Kid. I am not that one is going to be scary, but I feel like I am this Cabbage Patch Kid in a world full of Chucky dolls, I feel, you know, the clients are Chuckys. Certain employees are Chuckys.?

It's just we have lost focus in amongst all the technology and the social media and the AI, you know, innovations, we've lost the human element, and I'm seeing the effect of it. I'm seeing high turnovers, not just in my company, but in our client spaces. I'm seeing, you know, younger generations not willing to put up with a lot of stuff for less money, right? I'm seeing like people using the fact that, hey, listen, the cost of living is insane right now. So unless you can meet me where I'm at, we have nothing to talk about, and I'm not going to go the extra mile. I'm not going to give you my loyalty.

It's, it's scary. It's very scary. Things are shifting and changing, but I will, this is the hill I will die on that. It's, you know, it comes down to if you've got the human element, if we bring back the human element into our dealings, whether it is with clients, whether it is with our companies that we're working for, I think that we can only go up from there, right??

Matthew

When it comes to bringing that human element back, because I know there are a lot of leaders out there who want to to create a good employee environment who want to develop their teams, but may not necessarily know exactly how to get there. What are the sorts of things can a manager do? Can a leader do to build that human connection back into the workplace??

Karen

Great question. I think to me, everybody has a buy in. Everyone has a buy in. So before managers might be like, well, this is just how things are, right. Do your job. At the end of the day, etcetera. What I would do as a leader is I would be like, okay, humans are not built carbon copies of each other. We all have different motivations. What's this employee's buy in??

So what you could do is like, for instance, when I was working for the Disney company, I knew that in amongst my team there were certain members who were motivated by money. There were certain members who were motivated by extra 15 minute breaks. There were members of my team who liked validation and public form validation.?

And so I would then figure out, okay, if employee A over here, will go the extra mile for a fifth extra 15 minute break, that doesn't cost us anything, but I'm going to make sure that, you know, in tough times or whatever. If this employee steps up, we're going to have that human connection. I'm going to go, good job. Here's an extra 15 minute break.

Now, got their buy in, right? So, and then even down to money, right? Maybe I put up 15 or 20 bucks of my own money. I'm going to buy you lunch today. Whoever does this thing you've got, I'm part of your team. I'm going to give you what you want. And validation.?

Validation is huge, right? We find so often, and especially larger companies, you're a number, you're a cog in the machine, so to speak. Well, it's nice when people or managers or leaders call you out for the good things you do and make sure everyone knows it right. And says, Hey, everyone, Sally, just did the most amazing thing, and I'm so grateful that you're on my team, Sally, amazing. It's a human connection that AI can't generate. It's not something as like just an Instagram post, which is kind of phoney baloney, anyways. It's a human connection you're making, and that's where I really feel like, if we have that, if we figure out the motivation, if we figure out the buy in for people, and we make those human moments happen, right??

Because when I do that with someone, I'm basically saying, I see you. We're in this together. I see you, and I'm going to give you what you need to fulfill you, whether it's in this job or feeling great about leaving that day or whatever, which actually, I mean, I know it seems like sheet lightning. I'm jumping all over the place here, but the one thing that I actually learned taking into when I went into Disney was that at the beginning of the shift, I would make sure I said hello to every single person as they walked in the door, or if I was coming in and they had already been there. Hi, hi, how are you? How's your day been? And at the end of the shift, I always said, Thank you. Thank you for working today. Thank you for that amazing thing you did with that kid. Thank you for the way you folded those T shirts, making sure that we bookend the day with a positive, positive?

Matthew

I'm going to pull out just a detail that you did right there, just because I think it's really important, is being specific when you show recognition that it's more than just simply saying thank you. Like, you are good at saying thank you for folding the T shirts. Like, yeah, thank you for the specific activity, so that the individual then knows that you have seen them, that you are observing their behaviour, and they're recognizing the work that they are doing, that you're it's just not a a cheap like, oh, yeah, good work, you know. Like, I don't know, I have no idea, but I'm just saying like, because I think it's the right thing to say, No, you know, it's the right thing to say. And you were being intentional about that.?

I just want to draw attention because that's a really critical aspect of what you just demonstrated.?

Karen

And it really is. It's that human element again. If I was just a standard manager, maybe I say thank you, thanks guys. See you tomorrow. That means nothing. Alright, that's a blanket statement. You know, AI could write that. Thank you for your job today. Whoop do you do? But if I sit there and I point out, you know, I saw what you did, and that was pretty damn amazing, and I'm so grateful for it. Now, all of a sudden, we both have the same you know, we're on a common ground. We're on a common purpose. We're teammates. We're not just cogs in the machine.?

And that's the whole thing. I learned that very much at Disney, and I think that it made all the difference, you know, and even now in this job, if I am working with other team members doing what I do, I like to thank them. You know, thank you so much. I really appreciated when you, you know, you were my backbone for this. I really appreciated the way you handled XYZ, because I think it means something in a world right now where everything is so disposable, and that's really what it comes down to, our world has become technologically phenomenal and extremely disposable and singular.

And when we have those human connection moments, whether It is giving a 15 minute break extra or acknowledging something as small as folding T shirts, we're making a human connection that cannot be falsely created, right? It's disingenuous if it is, and I really feel that that's where leaders excel. I mean, I've got a great leader now, there are two leaders I've had in my lifetime that I would follow through, you know, the pits of hell, and because I have such loyalty to them, they made my job something more than just a job, and they made me feel like I was part of the team.

And the one I have right now, you know, he's amazing. He is. He's the type of guy, and this is what I've learned from him, is that, let's say, for instance, I'm having a bad day. Things are going wrong, you know, I'm just like, ah, his thing is that, well, go get it done. What is the problem here? Why haven't you done this? He will stop everything. Let me like, he lets me talk. And then he'll say, What can I do to support you?

Oh, what do you support me? Wait, what? Like you're not just going to tell me, get it done. You know, brush it off, like, suck it up buttercup. Get on out there. No, he'll listen to everything I have to say, right or wrong. You know, sometimes I could just rant, and he'll say, What can I do to support you? How can I make this work for you today.

Matthew

Which gets that same thing that you talked about your own leadership style. It's about, he gets himself in the trenches with you, in a sense.? Granted, he's a different level. But he is saying, you know, it's your essentially your work, but I am here to help you do this thing.?

Karen

Yeah, it's like we're working together towards a common goal, right? I'm not just on high living, you know, saying, Well, get things done. And when you have that moment where you have people hear you, even in your desperate hours, in your bad moments, in your terrible, no good, horrible days, and you have someone willing to sit and hear you, they don't have to agree with you, right? And a lot of the times, my manager and I, we do not agree. We will go toe to toe on some things. I will always respect that man, though, and regardless of whether, the fact whether we agree or not. I understand his position. I will always defer to the fact that he is my he is my manager.?

But I love the fact that he says, How can I help you? What can I do to support you? And sometimes it's just the act of being able to speak freely without fear of consequence, right? Without fear of retribution, being able to just go blah, and that's all I need. And I'll tell them that, you know what, I'm good. You listen to me. I just needed to get that off my chest. Or sometimes they'll say, Hey, can you help me by finding me XYZ? Can you link me up with this person?

And there comes in the other aspect of leadership, right? With leadership and management, management likes to talk the talk. They rarely walk the walk. They will, they will tone the company line. They will say all the little sound bites, right? We're going to circle back. We're going to put a pin in it.?

Matthew

Ah, the lovely corporate speak.

Karen

Yeah, I don't have the bandwidth for that right now, but you know, it's, it's on my to do going forward. You know, they have all the buzzwords right leadership will do follow through. So if I come to you and I say I'm having a problem, here's what I need. And they say, I'm going to go find X, Y and Z for you, and then they do. That's the follow through that then shows me, it mentors me, and it says, Hey, your word is your bond.?

If you have if you are always out true to your word, people will respect that. People will move mountains for you if you are true to your word, because they know they can depend on you. If I've got somebody who's just giving me empty platitudes, giving me this corporate speak, I'm never going to come to them. I'm not going to respect them, and I'm certainly not going to do my absolute best for them or the goals of the company, or even for my, my little, you know, singular self.?

So it's the human element. It's the walking the walk, as well as talking the talk, right? Let's just do the follow through and fun, having fun, just making things fun. It's not hard. You don't need money to make things fun. I think some companies, they think, oh, a pizza party solves everything doesn't. Oh, it doesn't.

Matthew

I remembered, you know, to go back to the Starbucks examples to making it fun and it not being expensive. Like, How often were the most hilarious moments communicated by these little notes on the employee board, just between the you and the staff. And, you know, I know that the staff was just dying, dying of laughter. We'd come in the morning and see this ridiculous little note from you,?

Karen

Exactly. And that's the thing, is that in the Disney story, you know, just to kind of show you, kind of what I did with the with them there. So of course, anyone who's ever been into, you know, either the parks or the stores knows that we had a lot of plush characters, and Disney owns the copyrights to the Muppets. So we had, you know, of course, all the plushies, Winnie the Pooh and Tigger. But we also had all the Toy Story movie stuff, right, Woody and Buzz and Bullseye.?

And then we also had Kermit, and we had like all so I got myself a Kermit. And if I was closing the night before, I would pose him in ridiculous situations in the in the store. So whoever was coming in in the morning would find him at the cash register with, you know, like till paper everywhere, like there's been some malfunction happening and it looks like he's typing on the keyboard. Or I had him propped up mopping in the background with like a big mop, you know, doing like a clean up in aisle three. And I had him, you know, photograph or picking faxes of his butt on our, you know, our fax machine and, you know, just little things like that.?

So it got to the point where, like, employees, they would look forward to coming into work for those weird moments that they were seeing, right, like just, and it's something so simple that that didn't cost nothing. Well, I mean, it's it cost me my Kermit. You know, I have Kermit, but it the fact is, is that it cost nothing, but it made people excited to come in to see, where is Kermit today? What is he up to today? Where can I find him in the store? You know, it's, I think that's great like and then Starbucks, we did. We had that employee board down in the basement that we could put things that, you know, obviously our customers didn't see.

But once again, moments of joy, right? Those, those quick little moments that make me not someone to be feared, but someone to laugh with, right? We're all in this together, you know, I'm about to break out into a High School Musical song, but, you know, it's true, it's, it's when we have that, that human connection, right?

I think you and I spoke about this at the beginning of COVID, when everybody was like the world was, like, the world was crazy. And we were trying to figure out, you know, how do we navigate? How do we connect to each other now that we're so isolated? And I remember there was myself and, you know, Peter and Brooke and, and, like, we're all Starbucks people and still. And we were talking about invisible threads. That regardless of where we are in the world, we have these invisible threads that attach to each other and I like the fact that I'm still very friendly very much.?

Some of my dearest friends are my employees that came in from Starbucks, from from the Disney company. I have carried these people through my life with me, because they meant so much to me. And I don't think that we could have done what we did unless we did have a human connection with each other, you know.?

Matthew

And I think you know, like coming from the opposite side of that, you know, that invisible connection exists because we felt that connection. We believed it you showed up in a genuine fashion and built that connection. And so, of course, we're going to be loyal as employees, but we also saw like we were connected to you as people, that human connection, and it lasted beyond, you know, our time working at Starbucks and years later,.It's a thing that's a mutual experience when you show up authentically in a genuine way, and make those real human connections with people.?

Karen

And you know what? You're hitting on, something really interesting there, Matthew, you're saying in a genuine way, showing up in a genuine way. And listen, I am so like, I'm tech savvy, right? Because I have to be in my job. I am very tech savvy. I am extremely social media savvy. I've stayed on top of all of this because, one, I'm fascinated by it.?

And two, I mean, it gave me a way to discuss things with my Gen Z child, you know, we're on the same level. I can talk the language, right? But with all of that, with all of the wonderful things that have happened and have come about, there is this slick, disingenuous look that everything has, whether it's our lifestyle, whether it's our aspirations, our job titles, what we you know, how we project in the world, it's all very slick and very manufactured, right??

And I find that I want a return to genuine, to authentic, to having somebody genuinely show up and give their authentic selves, either to the job or to the manager to the person, whatever, because that's real, right? I'm tired of living in the shiny, shiny land. I want real. I want people to be real. If you're having a bad day, I want to hear about it, because that's real, and we can then have a common ground. But if you're always shiny and slick, and I'm always shiny and slick. There's no honesty in that.?

I don't know how we can get to certain goals, because neither of us is being honest with each other or even with ourselves, you know. And like my sister one year, gave me a magnet that says, I hope that your life is as good as Facebook makes it seem right or look. And it's true. We, we post these things on social media. We do all these things very manufactured.?

And I find the best teams, the best leaders, come from the moments that are not shiny, that are not manufactured, that are very real, and it makes you feel like a human being.?

Matthew

I'm giving that a moment because I because that that hits so many different things, because it gets back to that, you know, being able to connect on a human level, like if you're interacting in a workplace, and you as the boss, are frustrated, you're having an experience being vulnerable to share. Obviously, there's a line as to what you share, but you know, making sure that our employees see you as being not this pinnacle, you know, godly figure, but, but somebody who actually has a few bruises and, you know, can get their hands dirty, metaphorically and literally.?

Karen

It really does make a difference, because let's, let's be hypothetical, right? If I was having something terrible happening in my background, in my real life, right? And I come into work, and you're you're working, and you see that I'm not in a good mood, but I'm not telling you anything about it, but I'm snappy, right? I'm snappy, and I'm grumpy, and I'm acting out of character, and I'm making you feel like crap while you're working.

And you know, if you ask me, Well, what's going on nothing. Why would you say something's going on? Well, now we've got this invisible wall between us, right? There's nothing authentic happening. You and your senses know something's not quite right, but now you're in a position where you're afraid to ask, and I am, like putting up so much barricades that you don't know what's going on.?

Now let's use that same situation. I come into work, you're noticing something's going on, and I say, I finally, like, you know, in a quiet moment, I've got the employees there, and I say, You know what, guys, I know I'm not myself today, and I'm really sorry for that. You know, I'd like to apologize for not being like myself today. There's a couple things going off in the in the background. You guys don't need to know about it, but just know that I'll be back to normal tomorrow. I'm probably just having a rough day.?

Now, if I do it that way, you know something's going on. I've been very vulnerable with you. We've had that human connection, that genuine, authentic moment. I haven't given away too much. You haven't lost respect as me as a leader. But now we all understand, okay, something's going on, and we get it and it's not going to affect me or my work or, you know, it's just something that we have to connect as a human being together, right??

Matthew

And the employees then know that it's not them.? They haven't accidentally done something wrong. That is making you upset, that you're like, you guys are all okay. This is on me. I'm processing it the way I need to, and I want you to know you're doing fine. Keep doing what you're doing.?

Karen

Exactly. I mean, think about it. Even when we were kids, right? If our parents, we heard them fighting in the other room, or, you know, something going on, then they didn't tell us what was going on. Then we all felt very responsible, like, oh, did I do? Am I doing something wrong? Is it me, as you know, like you have that moment. But if the parents were like, look, something you know happened to at work today, I guess I'm just having a bad day. Sorry, kids, mommy will be back together tomorrow. It then it takes that burden off of the person, and they realize it's not so much about them or their job. They're doing okay, right??

And sometimes, I mean, I always found, even if I was having, let's say, a craptacular day, going into work if you have created an environment, right, which comes back to the environment aspect, if you've created an environment of safety, of fun. It doesn't matter what's happened to me and you brought it up yourself. You know you could come in feeling really crappy about something, but you left feeling right. So it has the ability to kind of when you're all in that human journey together, being authentic, bringing your whole selves to work, having those human connections between leaders and between your team, it can turn around things.?

So all of a sudden now it's fine, right? And, and maybe the thing that was so huge in the background is now no longer such a huge issue. There are advantages to having a leader who understands connectivity and communication. You know, right from the get go, that even benefits them. You know, in those darkest moments, in those crappy moments, you find common ground, and you lift each other up, right? You it's not about everyone singularly with blinders on, going towards a goal. We're lifting each other up for a common good.?

Matthew

Now we're going to wrap up in a moment or so, but I just want to ask one last question. So you mentioned your first job 14 years old. You couldn't work out in the front of a store, and when you're thinking about your first leadership role, if you could give advice to your younger self who is stepping into her first leadership role, what would you say to her? And I'm asking this question because there are people who listen to this, who are entering their first leadership role and are trying to kind of get their head around it, yeah, what would you say to your younger self about how to be a leader.?

Karen

That's a really good question. I think, I think that I wish, I wish my manager, when I was 14, understood this as well and and it's certainly something I wish I'd learned faster with my own leadership journey. And that is to remember that every single person who you're wanting to come on this journey with you, right? You're going to be the pied piper. You're going to want them to come with you towards a common goal, right, for your company, or for your business, or whatever.?

You need to be able to understand that to the people who are joining you. One, you've got to know their buy in. But two, they might be scared. They might be nervous. This is brand new for them, right? You gotta remember what it was like to be their age or be in their shoes as a starting point.?

Because, if you can, and I mean, and I used to see this all the time, I don't know if you saw it, you probably did, you know, because you also have had quite the storied career. But those people who it's their first day, you can spot them a mile away. They're nervous, they're scared, they don't know they have no real footing at this point, right? And they're just trying to figure things out. Have that moment with that person and say, Hey, don't be scared. It's going to be okay. I was once with, I was like, you and then tell them a story of how bad your first day was. Right??

I always find that I do that with with new team members, is that I would go listen like, I'd find somebody like, literally just almost in tears in the back, or they're feeling overwhelmed, and I would say, don't, don't even stress it. You know what happened my first day? Let me tell you a little story. And I would sit there and tell them about terrible things that happened to me when I first started, and all of a sudden now it's like, you know, there's that connection you've already without even knowing that person, without them knowing you as a leader, you have created a connection to this person who you can now say, Okay, now follow me. We're about to do great things.

Matthew

Karen, I'm gonna ask you one last little question, and this is away from the leadership, and this is purely for anyone who's a Starbucks person who's listening to this, which is we all had that one customer who asked to have their very specific drink, and it was some crazy drink. Oh yeah, mine was the Ristretto Grande, one Raw Sugar, Latte Macchiato. What was the one drink that you remember some customer asking for?

Karen

Venti, Sugar free Vanilla, 190 degree Breve Latte.

For those who don't know, a breve is made with half and half cream. It's, it's, it's like or whipping cream. It's the most disgusting drink in the history of ever. And this one person would come in every day and drink that. And I remember, like, when I would see them coming, I'd be like, Oh no, no, no. Sugar free vanilla. Here we go. It's right, it's the brevity latte, the venti, venti, right, you know, huge.?

And I would always like, give eyeballs to whoever was either on the till or, you know, on the bar, and like, oh, because there we go. Oh, the smell of it. Come on now, like, yeah, those, those things will they have, like, slammed themselves into my brain. I will never it's tattooed in there absolutely.?

It has been a delight, honestly, to be able to talk to you about this. You know, I respect a lot of what you're doing. I think, I think the world needs more Matthew K Devine, if you ask me, but I might be biased.?

Matthew

Thank you, Karen.

Karen

Hopefully we've given somebody else another perspective on leadership and management today. That's my goal.

Matthew

And I want to thank you for not only being here today, but also just being a good mentor and advisor over the years, even after we stopped being manager employee.? It’s been wonderful to have you as part of in my orbit of people that I I look to.

Karen

The circle of trust. Matthew, I certainly appreciate it.

Matthew

Okay, we're going to end this. So thank you very much, Karen. And how should people, if they want to get in touch with you, should they reach out to you on LinkedIn? Like, what do you recommend??

Karen

Actually, I am on LinkedIn. If anybody does kind of want to know my thoughts on life, the universe and everything, the fact that it equals 42 you are more than welcome to hit me up on LinkedIn. That's fine if you happen to be in amongst the social media sphere and you stumble across me, I am on TikTok and and a couple other places, and usually with my Kermit doll sometimes in the background, and he's, he's come on lots of journeys with me, but yeah, definitely on LinkedIn. It's probably the best way.?

Matthew

Awesome. Alright, Karen, we're going to wrap up so thank you very much.?

Karen

Thank you.?

To carry on the conversation, you can connect with Karen Bhatt here on LinkedIn. You can also find her on TikTok and Instagram.

And if you want to talk to me about leadership or communication, you can send me a direct message and we can set up a call.