Joann S. Lublin discusses gender equity in the workplace, Carole Robin and David Bradford explain connection, and it's about to get innovative

"I deeply believe in paying it forward." In this week's You've Got This, journalist and author Joann S. Lublin shares what's driven her multi-decade career, what she hopes readers take away from her new book Power Moms: How Executive Mothers Navigate Work and Life, and her advice for those interested in writing professionally. Don't miss her answers below, along with a special guest interview from Carole Robin, Ph.D. and David Bradford, Ph.D, as well as announcing our next guest, CEO at skincare and wellness company TULA Savannah Sachs.

Victoria: "Can you share with us what's guided your extraordinary professional journey across nearly five decades?"

Joann: "My desire to prove that working women were just as capable as men. I began my journalistic career decades ago amid widespread gender bias – and few female role models. I joined The Wall Street Journal right after college as the first female reporter in its San Francisco bureau. The prestigious business newspaper then had 150 people on its news staff.  But only about a dozen staffers were women. And when I called sources to report Journal stories, I often got mistaken for a secretary or subscription saleswoman.

"This infuriating state of play fueled my fierce drive. So, I tried to over-achieve in everything I did for the Journal. Along the way, however, I came to realize that being a good performer wasn’t good enough. I needed to also figure out the unwritten rules of the workplace and find doors to the “old boys’ club.”

I describe several such insights in a letter to my younger self that the Journal published shortly after my April 2018 retirement. Here’s the link. As I left full-time work that spring, numerous Journal colleagues thanked me for having mentored them over the years. I did so because I deeply believe in paying it forward. My credo greatly propelled my professional progress as well."

Victoria: "For your recently-released book Power Moms: How Executive Mothers Navigate Work and Life you interviewed 86 executives who also happened to be moms to gather and share their insights. This book has become more timely than ever due to the disproportionate impact of the pandemic on mothers in the workforce. What do you hope readers take away from your book?"

Joann: "I want readers to recognize the importance of anticipating career hurdles and life changes. COVID-19 has hurt working mothers so badly that we should call it a momcesssion. Women with children under 12 years old lost nearly 2.2 million jobs due to the pandemic. That was three times the rate of fathers, one study concluded. By last November, other researchers found, women with youngsters under five had regained virtually none of their reduced labor force participation. But fathers of children that age had made up almost all of their lost ground.

As a result, I hope readers of #PowerMoms will take away three key lessons from the two generations of working mothers I interviewed. They are:

• Choose the right life partner. Insist upfront on a commitment to co-parenting, shared domestic duties and dual careers. Revisit these issues regularly.
• Choose the right workplace. Vote with your feet if your employer turns out to be less family friendly than you expected.
• Choose different mentors and sponsors at different points in your career. Most will be men since they still dominate upper management."

Victoria: "What advice would you have for other aspiring authors and journalists?"

Joann: "My best advice for would-be authors and journalists? Write. Write. Write. Write about whatever fires up your imagination and creates memorable tales. In my own case, I began making up stories at age four. I dictated those childish tales to my mother since I didn’t yet know how to write. I have kept a diary off and on since I was ten years old. I mostly write about the huge highs and lows in my life – many of which happened after I became a working mother in 1979.

Some entries proved extremely useful when I commenced writing #PowerMoms. My publisher insisted that I open every chapter with an anecdote about my triumphs and tribulations as a journalist with two kids. 

"If you aim to write books, you’ll also need tremendous passion for your chosen theme – plus long arms to pat yourself on the back during dark days of discouragement."

Because you will spend years devising a book proposal, pitching potential publishers, reporting your book, writing the manuscript, getting repeatedly edited, marketing your finished volume – and waiting for that highly prized, first royalty payment!

You face an equally daunting set of challenges if you pursue a journalism career. Traditional media outlets are headed for extinction. Pay levels remain low for most journalists. Hours are long. Editors have unrealistically high expectations that you’ll be honest, accurate, fair – and able to handle constant critiques of your work. On the other hand, you’ll truly enjoy yourself if you relish learning new ideas, meeting fascinating people and uncovering misdeeds in business or politics. Plus, you can work for the burgeoning array of contemporary media platforms ranging from news websites to blogs, podcasts and investigative nonprofit outfits such as ProPublica. Write on!"

Follow Joann on LinkedIn.

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You may have heard of Stanford’s most popular course, Interpersonal Dynamics (also known as "Touchy Feely"). Taught for a combined seventy-five years by David Bradford Ph.D. and Carole Robin Ph.D., this course inspired them to write their new book Connect: Building Exceptional Relationships with Family, Friends, and Colleagues. I was fortunate enough to join them for a quick Zoom call to learn more.

Victoria: "Dr. Robin and Dr. Bradford, can you share with us a bit more about your careers?" 

David:  "So my professional journey, which is relevant to the book, was I was teaching in Wisconsin and got a call to come teach at Stanford. Another professor had started a course, Interpersonal Dynamics, that the students called 'Touchy Feely.' This is a very unique course that’s the basis for our book. So that was in 1969, which dates me. But for the next 30 years, I developed the course into the structure it now is, and then in 2003, Carol joined the faculty, and became probably the best teacher of the course, after which point both of us taught it together along with other faculty. This course became extremely popular - something like 85% of Stanford students take it, many say it’s life changing, and two-thirds of alumni say they use it on somewhat of a regular basis years afterwards. So we wanted to do a book that essentially added value to it."

Carole: "So I’ve had a much more circuitous journey. I’ve had lots of careers. I started out in sales and marketing, in industrial automation. I was the first woman hired into a non-clerical job at one of the largest automation companies in the world. I spent some time in consulting, executive recruiting, and even had a stint in nonprofits. In 1998, I got a PhD,—I had decided I’d go back and get a masters, and then figured out I wanted a PhD if I was going to really be effective in leadership development. When I was going through that, one of the members of my committee knew David very well and suggested we meet, so I met him in 1998, went through a specialized training program, joined the faculty in 2002. And left Stanford in 2017 to start a nonprofit called Leaders in Tech, headquartered in San Francisco, where I teach everything I once taught at Stanford to CEOs and founders pre-IPO." 

Victoria: "With your new book Connect: Building Exceptional Relationships with Family, Friends, and Colleagues, you share many of the insights that you’ve grown over the years teaching your course, such as taking disclosure risks, honoring emotions and being authentic to yourself. With changes in how we communicate and interact driven by remote work around the pandemic, what lessons do you think are most timely for today?"

Carole: "Well, for starters I think it’s very important to double down on everything we talk about in the book which is a derivative of the course. Part of what’s happened in going online is that tasks have become foregrounded, and relationships have become backgrounded. So we have to be even more deliberate and intentional in practicing the interpersonal skills we teach. We have to actually create more structure to make disclosure when in virtual meetings easier: one of the activities we do in our Leaders in Tech program, for example, is something called 'If you really knew me.' Many CEOs have incorporated this as a practice and start their meetings with each person going around answering this question for 60 seconds each, and sharing something they really want the others to know about them. And they have to use three feeling words - For example, if I was answering the prompt right now I’d say, 'If you really knew me, you’d know I moved to San Francisco today from my house of 35 years in Palo Alto, and I'm terrified I’ll drop a ball along the way amidst all the chaos, and excited about the future at the same time.” And that took me less than 30 seconds. And it was a choice that I made, because I wanted you to know me a little better! A lot of what we talk about in the course and the book is if I take the risk of letting you know me a little better, you might be open to be a little bit better known by me. Because disclosure is reciprocal."

David: "If I can add onto that, which is very true, one of the effects of Zoom - building on tasks being foregrounded - is we’ve become very efficient. I had a colleague who said 'I’ve gotten to cut to the chase.' We’ve become efficient, but not effective. People do business with people. We need relationships with trust, knowing how you want to get work done. The stuff we’ve cut out is exactly what Carole is talking about. So I think what we may have learned is that these personal things gained by being in the office, getting coffee or grabbing lunch, is crucial. Zoom has cut that out, unless we double down." 

Carole: "And there’s something else that’s suffered - people are reticent to be honest as it is, when it comes to feedback or when something’s rubbed them the wrong way, but people do that even less on Zoom. The relationships actually suffer. Relationships become even less functional. So that’s another thing that has happened as a result of working remotely."

Victoria: "What do you hope people most take away from the book?"

David: "I hope they realize that there are a set of competencies that they can use that allow them to reach out to other people, to build stronger relationships. Relationships are on a continuum, only a few will be exceptional, but what’s in the book will help any relationship —casual, friend or colleague. But I also hope they learn they really have choices. I think many people feel helpless. There was a study I read, where the question was 'To what extent in the last year, how easy has it been to build a relationship?' And a third of the respondents said it was hard or very hard, a third said so-so, and only 25% said it was easy. The rest didn’t even try. So I wish people would know that they can be proactive. That they do have choices. And the book will show you how you can do that."

Carole: "I think that it’s important to remember that being interpersonally effective is not only a determinant of professional success but also personal success. If we go back to the beginning of the interview, we hear back from students 10-15 years later, saying this class helped save their marriage or reconcile their relationships with their friends. So building on what David just said, I hope people realize how important this is in the totality of their life. How much the fact that they have so much more agency in building strong, robust, functional relationships impacts their happiness, and potential for leading a more meaningful life in every aspect, not just in being better leaders and being more effective at business."

Follow Carole and David on LinkedIn.

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Next week's guest: Savannah Sachs

As the CEO of TULA Skincare, one of our 2020 LinkedIn Top Startups, Savannah Sachs is passionate about supporting the fast-growing company. Keeping her experience and insight as COO and UK General Manager at Birchbox and previous management consulting at Booz & Company in mind, here's what I'll be asking Savannah:

• What has it been like to see TULA became a part of many people's skincare routines during the pandemic? 
• How have you grown your company and sustained your team culture while working remotely?
• Where do you see the future of skincare and beauty going?

Join in the conversation by asking your own questions for Savannah in the comments—and thank you for being a part of You've Got This.