Interviewing for an IC Role at a Startup? Please Be Careful When Inquiring Into Leadership Roles - Real Story Within

To be clear, the Tech labor markets have experienced a nice uptick in hiring recently but we are not out of the woods yet. This story talks about a software engineer with just three years industry experience who was declined by my client because, in the introductory interview with the company's VP of Engineering, he steered the conversation towards the topic of "when" he would be able to return to an engineering leadership position. In other words, his focus shifted towards the future rather than the present. Especially when it's the first interview with a company, it's critical to keep the conversation strictly in the present and discuss how strong of a match you are for the role you're interviewing for. Let's call this engineer Thomas.?

Brilliant engineer and yes, he's currently out of work and his job search is active. What's interesting is that even though he's just 25 years old, at his most recent employer, he was a technical lead over a team of four software engineers. I was happy that Thomas got to the leadership level so quickly in his career but his employer was a modestly funded Seed stage startup so at the same time, I was also hoping he would realize that this didn't necessarily mean he would land a technical leadership role at more established companies.?

My client is a nicely funded startup with close to 30 million in the bank and they have a position open for a Senior Software Engineer. Ideally, they wanted someone with a minimum of seven years industry experience but I liked Thomas' experience so much that I politely pounded the table on my client speaking with him. So they trusted my words and we scheduled an introductory virtual meeting with the VP of Engineering. I followed up after the interview and while the conversation went well, my client chose to immediately decline. And here are the exact words from the VP of Engineering,?

Nice young guy, really smart, worth the chat.? There were two things that cause me to pass:

First, almost immediately he talked about when he could begin moving towards technical leadership.? That isn't a red flag itself, but if I combine that with his relative lack of experience, then I wonder if he isn't leveling himself above where he's really at.? A little more concerning is that this is an IC role yet he was trying his very best to steer the conversation towards "when" he would move into a leadership role rather than how good of a fit he was for our current opening.?

Secondly, after giving an introduction to the company and the product, he started asking questions like "so, does ***** have a product or are you still figuring?it out?".? It was weird, like he didn't even hear my words or pay attention to what I was saying. Again, super talented young software engineer but we just didn't connect very well so we are going to pass.?

While Thomas is a gifted, young software engineer, as far as his interviewing approach was concerned, he slipped up pretty badly. His primary focus for this meeting should have been the job opening that he was interviewing for at my client. However, in turning his focus towards a future point in time when he would be considered for a leadership position, it was clear that his mindset was in a completely different space? compared to the VP of Engineering. And yes, in my opinion, this is a pretty significant misalignment and was the primary factor for the decline.?

It's not spoken about enough but when we are having conversations with another party, whether it be a professional or personal setting, both people need to be in the same timeline. My client's VP of Engineering was focused on having an introductory conversation about a hands on, software engineering position that was currently open. Yet Thomas was primarily consumed with his future and when he would be working in a leadership capacity again. We had one party discussing the present while the other party was discussing the future. And when something like that happens, the disconnect can really pour water on the flame. While this story is personal in nature, can I share an experience I had in my mid 20's that fell apart due to a timeline disconnect, not to mention how immature I was at the time this happened??

I was fortunate to have found the IT recruiting profession in my mid 20's, just as the technology boom was taking off in this city. I'm talking about the late 1990's before the dot.com bust and I cannot begin to describe how much Austin's IT market was booming. Make no mistake, it was really hard work and once the weekend arrived, my coworkers and I were exhausted from all of the stress and went downtown to a nightclub called The Coppertank. The place was packed every weekend and upon entering the nightclub, your primary focus was to begin consuming alcohol in volume and looking to meet someone who would be interested in an immediate romantic engagement. In my case, I was heavily on the search for young women looking to have a good time.?

For whatever reason, this moment is still so very clear in my mind. I began having a conversation at the bar with a woman and everything was going really nicely. And yes, the drinks were flowing too. However, I began steering the conversation towards her plans later that evening and if she would possibly be interested in going somewhere more private. And if not that evening, perhaps sometime in the near future, could a date be on the table? And yes, I was immediately consumed with hopefully securing an immediate moment of romance with her.? As we all very well know, women possess significantly more emotional maturity than men and I have to think that my advances at the time were the motivation for the words that came out of her mouth. Here is what she said to me,?

So I just want to let you know what I'm looking for in a relationship. I want to get married, have children and raise them in a traditional manner of mostly being a stay at home Mom. Eventually, I'll return to work but building a family is everything to me. I think it's important that I let you know that that is what I'm looking for. What about you? Are you looking for that as well??

You can make a strong argument that in order to legitimize another party in a conversation, you talk about the future and where your present engagement would take them. At the time, I was still paying off my student loan debt, living in an apartment and from a financial stability standpoint, nowhere near being able to provide the kind of lifestyle she presented to me. But also, upon hearing these words, this very impressive young woman was talking about the future and I was consumed with the present and hopefully securing some romance. Due to our different timelines and expectations, I had something put on my plate that I was not prepared to answer to her satisfaction.?

I don't exactly remember what happened next but within 10-15 minutes, she and I parted ways and while I did see her at the Coppertank a few weeks later, we never spoke to each other again. To be clear, when this woman realized what I was immediately looking for, she put her desired future on the table with the intention of either validating or exposing me. And upon being unable to verbally confirm I could provide this kind of life for her, she kicked me to the curb. Again, this story is not very closely aligned to the point of this blog post but it is an example of one person consumed with the present while the other was thinking about the future.?

Getting back to Thomas, you can also defend his approach because he was fortunate enough to achieve a leadership position very early in his career and you can't blame him for wanting to hold on to that status. There very well could have been a great amount of innocence and na?veté in his tone when he asked my client's VP about his future at the company.? But given the continued fragility of the Tech labor markets, Thomas' best move would have been to swallow his pride and put all of his attention towards the current job opening and how strong of a match he felt he was for the role. After all, he's now three months into unemployment and with the holiday season upon us, I'm 99% certain that he's going into 2025 without a job.?

If you have been a Technical Lead or an Engineering Manager previously in your career but you're interviewing for a senior IC role, save the "leadership conversations" for much further down the line. In fact, I would wait until you got to the offer stage with the company before discussing when you can possibly return to leadership. For that introductory interview with a company, focus on the present and answer every single question asked of you to your absolute best. This dynamic is not spoken about very much but when interviewing with a company, if you make the focus of the conversation on "where you want to be in 2-3 years" rather than the immediate requirements of the job opening, just like I experienced back at the Coppertank, there is a good chance that such a timeline disconnect will result in you getting kicked to the curb.?

In closing, I was disappointed with myself that I did not have a prep call with Thomas about this first round. I could have very politely let him know that being a Technical Lead at a Seed stage startup early in his career in no way guarantees leadership positions in the immediate future. He is a very talented developer but given he is not even four years out of college, even if it's another 3-4 years before he returns to a leadership role, he really isn't taking too much of a step back in his career. Rather than focusing on the future, he should have kept everything in the "here and now" and if he had done so, we would be moving forward to Round 2 with my client.?

As always, this is nothing more than a story to keep in your back pocket should you find yourself in any such situation where there could be a timeline disconnect.?

Thanks,?

Mark Cunningham

Technical Recruiter

512-699-5719

[email protected]

https://thebiddingnetwork.com

https://markcunningham91.blogspot.com

https://www.dhirubhai.net/in/markhc