Interview: Zoe Spawton

This interview was made on 25. July 2014.

Zoe Spawton (b.1983 Melbourne, Australia) is a documentary and food photographer who has been living and working in Berlin since 2012. Not long after arriving in Berlin she discovered an eccentric elderly well dressed Turkish man called Ali, who she has since been sharing with the world on her tumblr blog. In 2013 What Ali Wore caught the attention of the Internet and has since been featured in countless print and online articles through Europe, the USA and across the globe. Zoe was also interviewed by CNN Turkey, RBB Kultur Radio Germany and Sunrise Australia. A selection of these images are presented offline as part of Typologien, which showcases a selection of Berlin based photographers working with typologies.

Michael Dooney: We know some of the back story about how you met Ali, but how difficult was it to start this project?

Zoe Spawton: From what I remember it happened quite organically, it was a case of familiarity between us growing. I'd see him 4 days a week when I was at work. In the morning we'd have this routine when I was setting up the furniture when he walked past. And obviously he is a confident person and likes when people acknowledge him, but it literally started with a smile and a nod, and eventually saying hello. So this process happened over 3-4 months. When it eventually came to the point where it wasn't difficult for me to ask him, I complemented him and explained that I'm a photographer, said how nice he looked with my terrible German and if I could take his photo. At first he was a bit taken aback but then obliged, I showed him the shot on the back of the camera and the next day I pretty much didn't even have to ask.

MD: Had you done something similar before? Taking photos of strangers or someone that you'd noticed or seen around?

ZS: Hmm, No

MD: have you done it since

ZS: no

MD: so Ali is the only subject that you've chosen so far.

ZS: Yes,

MD: Do you think you would, if you found any other interesting characters.

ZS: Yes, actually there are a handful of interesting characters on the street that I've noticed and thought about maybe doing something with them. They're all older people. Probably over 60, and just spend a lot of their lives, walking up and down the street, walking their dogs, going to the sp?ti, riding their bikes. I guess with me the language barrier is still an issue for me. My German is improving, but I'm still not there yet. So definitely there are so many interesting people around that I'd like to take pictures of. The beauty about Ali is that it's regular and the repetition makes it easier.

MD: With Ali you mention that he is a tailor, he has an amazing wardrobe, and already has a certain showmanship about him. So whether consciously or not he does draw attention to himself. The other people that you've noticed around, that you'd like to photograph, what is it about them that has caught your curiosity?

ZS: I suppose its more to do with the fact that I'm gradually learning about them or seeing a bit more of them. Or in one woman's case, that she is very slowly opening up a bit more, and we are just starting the process of nodding and saying hello.

MD: Oh, so you have initiated some kind of contact with the people

ZS: some people we have very basic German conversations. This other woman is like a chain smoker who just shuffles along, walking her dog down the street. She used to just stare straight ahead. But then one day I said hello and now she says hello when she sees me. But like you said these people aren't really standing there, drawing attention to themselves and relishing in that kind of attention. But I'm slowly gaining their trust. It's important to point out that I'm not trying to gain their trust only because I want to take their photo.

MD: rather you have a genuine interest in people.

ZS: Yeah, particularly older people. Especially in this city, which is not something that I realised until I got here. I've always found Berlin fascinating, I studied history in High school then later at University. I've always found it really fascinating and sometimes being here it's difficult to connect the dots. Thinking about what happened in this city. Whether it was 80 years ago, or 50 years ago, or 25 years ago how it compares to now. Sometimes when you do see these people and see their faces and that they're 70 years ago, you wonder what have they lived through what have they seen? What has their mother seen? That's when I find it easier to make those connections.

MD: Did you find that when you lived in Australia as well?

ZS: No not really, well you can see older people and know that they lived a life. Three times as long as you! But I think comparing the history of Berlin to Australia, you can't really compare them.

MD: I guess this makes sense if you describe yourself as a documentary & food photographer, which probably isn't as obvious through the Ali photos, but definitely your interest in people and their lives.

ZS: Well I guess I think of myself as a documentary photographer. If I think about the situations when I'm shooting a wedding or for example shooting the vegetable fight on the Oberbaum Brücke, I'm much more comfortable shooting from an observational point. So with Ali it's really the first time that I've been in a situation when it's so strongly posed, but even then it's me shooting what he does. I'm not directing him.

MD: So with your food photography, as you're helping someone put a book together, did you arrange the food and set it up?

ZS: Well shooting food and people are two different things, but even with the food I wasn't doing the styling. However I think with food you can take your time, and really look at what you're doing, it's a more solitary thing. I like to take my time with it. Where as shooting people or on the street its more seeing something and capturing it as it happens.

MD: It sounds like even with the people photography it is almost a similar approach to the food photography, you're taking your time with the subject until you feel that it's right to take the photo. Not so much the action shots but the people that you've described. You're waiting for the right moment. Building their trust, finding out more about them, until you're ready to take the picture.

Do you think that you'll always keep shooting Ali, as long as he is walking past the cafe?

ZS: I don't know. It's difficult because he has run out of new clothes and he doesn't like having the same shot done twice. Though he always gets excited when he has a new outfit and always tells me about it if he has something new. As a project I feel that it is reaching its conclusion. But I will probably always take my camera with him just in case he surprises me one day. Or if we go out together one day and he has a new outfit of course I want to share it with everyone!

There was this period when I stopped, Ali was away for about 10 weeks. I was getting personal emails, mails through tumbr on the facebook page: Where is Ali, is he ok? Even though I posted that this will be the last one for a while, people really want to see him. And you see that reaction from all around the world. And that is one thing that has been really nice about it. Last year I was getting emails from everywhere. Google analytics, which thankfully I set up 2 months before it all blew up, showed that it's been viewed in every country except North Korea and the Central African Republic. Some countries it only been viewed 15 times, but still, it's amazing! Two of the biggest audiences are the United States and Turkey. In Turkey they really love it. But there was one week where I got emails from Russia, Brazil, Vietnam, Sweden and all these people wrote to say that seeing this work really makes them smile. It's really nice.

MD: You're part of our exhibition at the moment and I know that you've won a couple of awards with the work. Do you think that you'll publish all the photos as a book?

ZS: I'd love to make a book. I'm currently in the process of developing this idea, It would be a nice way to round it off.

MD: It sounds like you've travelled quite a lot then, living previously in San Francisco .

ZS: When I was 19 I lived away for a year. I was based in the UK and I went back packing in Europe. Travelled over to Germany a few times before. I've always worked in hospitality and it's been a really great way of travelling and being able to maintain a balanced lifestyle. It's probably one of the reasons that I've never really been forced to make a living as a photographer. Particularly when I was in Melbourne I was part of a restaurant group which was really nice to work in. Great people, lots of respect, lot of opportunities – which is kind of how I started food photography. I was working for Andrew McConnell . He probably has some of Melbourne's most loved restaurants. He is a bit of a celebrity chef and still really down to earth and really nice guy. He was doing a food festival in Australia and needed a photo of a dish, however no one was available. I was asked if I could take the photos, which were later printed in a small catalogue. Later they needed photos of a dish for an event package information and that was really how it all started. Working in restaurants was a great way of travelling to the States and seeing parts of the world which I might not have otherwise.

MD: What motivated the move to Berlin?

ZS: In a nutshell, just a need for a bit of an adventure. I know we spoke briefly about this before, but when I was 24 I was diagnosed with breast cancer. After living in San Francisco at the time the plan was always to move to Europe afterwards, however once I was diagnosed I went back to Australia for treatment and I was back in for around 4 years. When I reached a point when I was no longer bound to Australia for my treatment I started thinking of travelling again. Which took about a year of evaluating, planning and seeing what is possible. Back when I was 24 I wanted to go to Spain, but the next place I always had on my mind was Germany. I'd been to Germany a couple of times before, really enjoyed it. Entertained a few German friends and friends of friends in Melbourne and always got on really well with them. I almost went on exchange when I was still in High school but it never worked out. But somehow I'd always had this attraction to Germany. Initially I thought of moving to Hamburg, I'd been before and really liked it, but after doing some research eventually decided on Berlin. I moved on my own and I didn't know one single person when I arrived here, but once I made the decision it felt completely perfect. I'm really glad I made the decision. It's been hard obviously moving to another country, but I feel really thankful for all the things that have happened here.

What Ali Wore was exhibited as part of Typologien from 19. July until 30. August 2014 at JARVIS DOONEY Galerie, Linienstr. 116, 10115 Berlin.

More of Zoe's work can be seen on her website: www.zoespawton.com

You can keep up with Ali and his outfits on: https://alioutfit.tumblr.com/