Interview w/ Ramin Pejan (Earthjustice)

What's your "dream" job in climate law?

For me, it used to be working at Earthjustice , a non profit law firm that represents the planet.

I have a feeling that many of you may have the same fantasy...

But what would it really be like?

You’ll have to read our interview with Ramin Pejan of Earthjustice to find out.

We cover his day-to-day, tips on getting hired, the difference between working at an NGO and a governmental agency, and . . .

. . . my personal favorite, how to deal with intimidating situations as a young lawyer.

Keep reading!

Hi! I’m?Matthew Karmel, chair of the Environmental and Sustainability Law Group at?Offit Kurman, P.A., a full-service AMLaw 200 law firm, and founder of the planetary lawyer project.

I took my practice from a single pro bono climate client to a thriving book of climate-related clients, and I did it all without going to a T14 law school, working in BigLaw, or running myself into the ground along the way.

I love what I do and my work is meaningful.

I started the planetary lawyer project to help others do the same.

Reach out by?email?or?LinkedIn?if you’re interested in any of the following:

• Sponsoring this newsletter
• Mentoring/coaching
• Referring a legal matter

Any views expressed are my own. Nothing here is legal advice.

Matthew: A lot of our readers know about Earthjustice and would love to work there, but for those who don't, can you tell them what Earthjustice is and what you do there?

Ramin: We are a public interest nonprofit law firm established in 1971, and we represent our more than 1000 clients for free. We focus on protecting the environment and realizing the right to a healthy environment. We have grown a lot over the years, and now have ?over 200 attorneys. Most of our work is focused in the U.S. We have over a dozen regional offices throughout the United States and different thematic practice areas. We focus on oceans, chemicals, pesticides, wildlife protection, fossil fuels, among other things. We also have a community environmental justice group. We've evolved our work to fit the needs that have arisen over time, and we understand our work has a dynamic nature. Our headquarters are based in San Francisco. In addition to our domestic U.S.-based work, we also have an international program, which is smaller in comparison, but it's also has grown quite a bit.

Matthew: And you’re a part of the international team. Can you tell us about what it's like in your day to day as a part of the Earthjustice international program?

Ramin: I'm a senior attorney in the international program. As I mentioned, the program has grown and evolved, even in the 7 years that I have been there. It used to focus more on international environmental law, treaties and processes, like ?climate change negotiations and international trade, and there was some work around the Arctic Council. Now, we work more on supporting lawyers and partners in other countries to bring litigation, typically around climate change issues. We help our partners in their fights to stop fossil fuel projects. We also try help our partners to promote renewable energy projects to be implemented, and we want to be sure that there are no obstructions or attempts to limit the renewable sector's growth. We work in several countries on various continents. I work a lot in Africa, but we work in support partners in Australia, Indonesia, and Latin America.

It's pretty exciting.

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Matthew: How can people who want to work at Earthjustice make it happen? What makes a star candidate?

Ramin: It's hard to answer that question. It differs depending on if you're interested in international work versus U.S.-based work. There are some commonalities, though: it’s necessary to have a passion for protecting the environment and a passion for assisting communities and people most vulnerable to environmental damage. I don't think having a long history of being an environmental activist or even working in environmental law is necessary.

When I first started in this field, I didn't have experience in that. It was a little intimidating because I would work with people who were canvassing in their neighborhoods at the age of 10 to help with some environmental issues.

At Earthjustice, we also focus a lot on diversity, equity, and inclusion. Having an awareness of that and having a track record of considering DEI issues in your life and your work is something we look at very much. And, of course, like every job, you want to be able to get along with your coworkers. We’re open to people from different backgrounds, experiences, and law schools.

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Matthew: Let’s switch focus a little bit.? You’ve worked in the nonprofit space with Earthjustice, as well as in a city law department.? Can you tell us about the differences between those experiences? ’’

Ramin: When I started my career. I worked in the New York City Law Department in their environmental division for about 5 years. It was a great experience for a number of reasons. In government, you get a wide variety of cases. I found myself, at least on the environmental front, working on environmental review challenges. Many people in this field know the easiest way to delay or try to stop a project is to challenge its environmental review or authorization. I also worked on other issues, like zoning, land use, parks, and conservation. Working in a state or city, you can get that vast experience. I also had a lot of opportunities to gain experience even in my first year there; I was already taking depositions. I was arguing cases while many of my colleagues were working in law firms and were still doing document reviews. I was in court already and doing depositions against the partners in their firms. It was a little intimidating, but working for the government was great. You get experience, and you have support. Part of the challenge of working for government is, and this is the same in private practices, you don’t always agree with the positions you’re arguing. My first case was defending the construction of the new Yankee Stadium. I felt terrible that many members of the community would now look at a stadium where they used to look at a park, and I identified with their grievances. But of course, you have a client, and you have an ethical commitment as a lawyer. It can be difficult.

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At the same time, you learn to balance your views and understand the difficulty of government and decision-making. The government has to consider many different perspectives, and inevitably, someone or some community will be upset.

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In contrast, at Earthjustice, our goal, mandate, and objectives are singular to defend the environment and communities dependent on a healthy environment. Everyone here is passionate about the work. Our client base is much more varied. We represent tribes, nonprofits, and individuals. Whereas, in government you’re typically representing agencies. You have a little more control over your work in the nonprofit in terms of directing your career and building your docket. Those are some things that come to mind.

Matthew: Going deeper with something you said, as a young government lawyer your adversaries were often senior partners form larger firms. How did you handle such an intimidating situation, and what advice do you give someone who will face that scenario in the future?

Ramin: It’s hard as a young lawyer. I remember my first oral argument; I probably prepared 10 days for it. By the time I left the Law Department, I would prepare for a day. Everything is harder at first. Everything is new. More senior lawyers will pick up on you being less experienced, and many will try to manipulate or intimidate you. I think it’s just one of those things. Even talking in internal meetings was challenging. In my first year as a lawyer, it was intimidating to share my views with my colleagues during big group meetings. I have over 20 years of experience now. I don’t think twice about any of this stuff anymore, but it’s a process, and like everything else, the more you do it, the more comfortable and confident you get. It’s hard to say my experience will translate to someone else. Others might be confident right at the start. I was quite intimidated, and it took me time to really find my voice as an attorney.

Matthew: You prepare as much as possible, and then you have to trust yourself. ?That’s excellent advice. On that note, whether it’s for new attorneys or experienced attorneys, what’s your best advice for people who want to do more climate work?

Ramin: There is so much climate work that needs to be done, so many different types of cases that need to be brought, and different types of work, period. All of it’s important. Some people are just trying to get renewable projects going. Other people are trying to find technical solutions for removing carbon or new renewable technology. Some people who are trying to stop banks financing fossil fuels. There’s such a wide variety of work, and it's hard because some people want to do it all, and it all has to happen. I think it's important to narrow your focus to a few things. I’ll also say, if you're in this space, it can get emotionally challenging because what needs to be done is so incredible. It will take so much effort and political will. You will continually see corporations and governments refusing to do what's necessary. Often, litigation is the only solution, but there’s no guarantee you’ll win. It can be overwhelming to see the inaction in ?the face of necessity. You have to accept those facts going in and do your best to cope emotionally with this burden we face as humanity.