An Interview with Dad for Daughters Author Michelle Travis

In her latest book, Dad for Daughters, author and University of San Francisco law professor Michelle Travis lays out an extensive and comprehensive action plan for all dads on how they can transform their world, their daughters’ world, and the world at large by starting to stand up for and by their daughters. My recent conversation with Michelle about the book and its important and essential message is below.

 JMA: What would you say was your inspiration for writing Dads for Daughters?

MT: After researching gender equality as a law professor for many years, I had two rather unsurprising revelations. The first is that legal tools are necessary but not sufficient for achieving women’s equality. The second is that we need more men involved if we’re going to accelerate progress. In thinking about how to engage men in gender equality efforts, I watched the effect that my two daughters had on my husband, by fueling a far greater sense of urgency to level the playing field for girls and women. I quickly discovered that this was not a unique phenomenon.

When men have a daughter—particularly a firstborn daughter—they tend to become more supportive of anti-discrimination laws, equal pay policies, and sexual harassment enforcement. Even more exciting, I learned that these tendencies are having meaningful effects.

Researchers have found, for example, that companies run by CEOs who are dads of daughters tend to have smaller gender pay gaps than companies run by other men. Venture capital firms with senior partners who are dads of daughters are more likely to hire women partners than other VC firms. Legislators who are dads of daughters are more supportive of laws protecting reproductive rights than other male lawmakers. And judges who are dads of daughters vote more favorably for women than other male judges in sex discrimination cases.

These studies got me imagining the progress we could make if women invited all dads of daughters to actively participate in creating a better world for our next generation of girls. That’s what lead to my book, Dads For Daughters, which is both a celebration of male allyship and a resource for men and women to partner together to accomplish even more. 

JMA: The prevailing premise of your book is that dads with daughters are “well-positioned” to take on gender bias and inequality wherever they encounter it in the world. Can you briefly explain why you believe this?

MT: Of course, having a daughter is neither necessary nor sufficient for becoming an effective male ally. All men have a stake in gender equality, and many men are powerful advocates without having daughters. But being the dad of a daughter can increase a man’s capacity to become a highly effective leader in advancing women’s rights.

This is because being the dad of a daughter can give men what social scientists call “standing to speak.” Men sometimes hesitate to become vocal supporters of gender equality because they don’t feel that it’s their place to speak up or they’re concerned about negative reactions. Unfortunately, these concerns can be well-founded. Researchers have discovered that when people advocate for a position that appears to be at odds with their own self-interest, others often react with surprise, anger, and resentment. These reactions are reduced, however, if the speaker identifies a vested interest in the outcome.

For men, this means that explicitly invoking your status as the father of a daughter can validate your participation in women’s advancement. It offers an understandable basis for a man’s support of women’s equality. This enables dads of daughters to be influential advocates by allowing others to move beyond their skepticism and listen with an open mind.

Of course, this only works when men are genuinely interested in doing the work that’s required to advance women’s equality—by learning, engaging, and taking action. But when a man’s relationship with his daughter provides an authentic motivation for supporting gender equality, that can empower him to be an effective catalyst for change.

JMA: You state in one of the early chapters of the book that the biggest barrier to male allyship on gender equality is fear. What do you mean by that?

MT: When the non-profit Catalyst organization surveyed men about their biggest barriers to actively supporting gender equality in their workplaces, seventy-four percent responded: “fear.” Men’s fear of getting involved came from several different sources.

Many men were concerned about making mistakes, inadvertently offending someone, or having their relationship with women colleagues’ misperceived—concerns that unfortunately have increased in the wake of #MeToo. Other men were worried about disapproval from their male colleagues, who might view them as less masculine for advocating on women’s behalf. Some men also feared that advancing women’s leadership might reduce their own opportunities.

Given these barriers to men’s involvement in gender equality initiatives, dads of daughters have a great opportunity to have an impact. Because of their unique position to speak credibly in support of women’s advancement, fathers of daughters can validate men’s participation in gender equality work. Men tend to listen to other men, which makes dads of daughters particularly effective at recruiting other male allies into action. They can also be influential voices about the business case for gender balance, which can reduce the zero-sum perception of women’s advancement. The fears that are creating barriers to male allyship should also provide insight for women about the importance of inviting men into our conversations.

 JMA: One of the central points of your book is that gender equality isn’t just good for women but for men as well. Can you give one or two examples that illustrate this point?

MT: Because having diverse leadership teams in organizations is good for business, everyone gains by advancing gender equality. Gender-balanced companies are more innovative, more responsive to a diverse customer base, more attractive to investors, and more financially successful.

More specifically, when men commit to mentoring, sponsoring, and advocating for women, men learn and grow as a result. Men expand their own perspectives, diversify their networks, and become better colleagues and more informed leaders. Of course, dads of daughters will additionally benefit by making the world a little bit better for their daughters to thrive.

 Advancing gender equality also frees up men from limiting gender stereotypes, just as it liberates women. When men and women are viewed as equal parents, for example, men can more easily be engaged fathers and feel less pressure to play solely a breadwinner role. Breaking down gender stereotypes and rigid role expectations can also permit men to more freely express emotions without getting harshly policed, including compassion, caring, and vulnerability—feelings that many dads report when sharing their relationships with their daughters. 

JMA: When talking about the overwhelming need for new family leave policies, you specifically point out that expanding paternity leave is vital for advancing women’s equality. Can you explain why you think this is true?

MT: When women become moms, their bosses tend to view them as less competent and less committed to their jobs, which results in fewer promotions and less pay. In contrast, when men become dads, they actually tend to get more raises and promotions. That’s unless men take significant paternity leave—in which case they can face even greater career stigma than women. These gender stereotypes can become self-perpetuating. Higher-earning men understandably prioritize work over childcare because the stakes are too high to do otherwise.

Expanding support for paternity leave is a critical step in breaking this cycle. Until employers view both men and women as involved parents, employers won’t offer equal advancement opportunities to women nor prioritize the workplace flexibility that all working parents need and deserve. So equalizing women’s opportunities at work depends upon equalizing men’s caregiving responsibilities at home. Dads of daughters are well-situated to be leaders in supporting paternity leave, in part because having a daughter tends to decrease men’s support for traditional gender roles.  

JMA: As a father of a daughter myself, one of the most moving parts of the book for me is how you stress that we as dads have to put ourselves in our daughter’s shoes and view the world as she sees it. Why do you think this is so important?

MT: Being the dad of a daughter is one proven way to build men’s empathy for other girls and women. Empathy, in turn, is an essential leadership skill. Men especially gain insights when they learn from their older daughters’ experiences of gender bias and work/family conflict. In one study of male CEOs, researchers found that the most vocal women’s advocates were more likely to have a daughter who had faced sex discrimination herself.

The empathy-building that can come from being an engaged father of a daughter is important because it’s human nature to assume that everyone’s experiences in the workplace are the same as our own. That makes it understandably difficult for men to recognize the subtle causes of gender inequality. When men hear the challenges that their daughters are facing, it enables them to look more critically at the external barriers to women’s success, rather than assuming that a shortage of women leaders is due to women’s lack of interest or commitment.

One of the dads whom I interviewed for the book shared a wonderful story of his own empathy growth. He explained that as a long-time manager, he had always viewed employees’ childcare arrangements as both a personal issue and a fairly straightforward task. After he felt his daughter’s extreme stress trying to secure reliable childcare to support her career, however, he started viewing workplace flexibility as a leadership imperative.

JMA: In one chapter of the book, you encourage men to be more than just sports fans when it comes to their daughters and sports. What do you mean by that?

MT: Sixty-six percent of American men describe themselves as sports fans (seventy-six percent of upper-income men). At the same time, glaring gender inequalities exist in sports at every level. Twenty-eight percent of public high schools are failing to comply with Title IX’s demand for equal athletic opportunities for girls. There are 63,000 fewer college team slots for women than men. Even the wildly successful U.S. Women’s Soccer Team faces a massive gender pay gap.

This gives dads a fantastic opportunity to combine their devotion for their daughters and their passion for sports to help advance gender equality in athletics. An easy first step is simply to watch more women’s sporting events. This will not only inspire your daughters, but can also help increase the dismal level of media coverage for women’s teams. Dads of daughters can also report inequalities in their daughters’ school athletic programs to Title IX officials, coach their daughters’ sports teams, or nominate female athletes for a Women’s Sports Foundation award. By taking these steps to become more than just a sports fan—but also a women’s sports ally—dads of daughters can expand the lifelong benefits of health, self-esteem, confidence, and perseverance for our next generation of girls.

JMA: What are some of the ways that dads of daughters can leverage their political power as referenced in the book?

MT: If more men connected their father-daughter relationship with their ability to select, support, and lobby government leaders who can advance women’s equality, we could amplify our voices. Dads can start by thoughtfully exercising their right to vote by supporting candidates who will fight for policies that economically empower women, such as paid family leave, paid sick days, equal pay enforcement, and access to healthcare.

Dads of daughters can also encourage more women to run for office. When women run for office, they’re elected at the same rate as men. But far fewer women throw their hat into the ring, largely because they aren’t actively recruited as often as men. Dads of daughters can correct this imbalance by nominating women friends and colleagues as potential political candidates through the She Should Run organization, which helps launch women candidates’ campaigns. 

Dads can also begin building political power closer to home by inspiring their daughters to become politically active. The IGNITE organization’s “Empower Your Daughter” initiative offers free toolkits and teen discussion guides for dads to engage their daughters in public service and build their political ambitions. 

JMA: Looking back on all of your extensive research for the book, what are some of the things that give you hope for the future when it comes to dads and daughters and the battle against gender inequality?

MT: Knowing that there are so many dads of daughters who are stepping up as ready, willing, and able male allies have filled me with hope for our ability to accelerate progress towards gender equality. It was deeply inspiring to hear so many men share their heartfelt stories of how their father-daughter relationship allowed them to see the world through a more empathetic lens. I’ve also been inspired by women’s capacity to invite men into conversations about gender equality and to see the powerful impact that these partnerships can have. We have much to learn and gain from each other. So, let’s join forces and get to work!

Dads for Daughters by Michelle Travis is available at Amazon.com.