Intentional Hiring to Drive Revenue Growth
Tim Fitzpatrick
MSP & B2B Professional Service Firm Marketing Consultant/Advisor | Fractional CMO | Build and manage your marketing engine to get where you want to go faster. | Remove Your Revenue Roadblocks
Welcome to the Rialto Marketing podcast. Today's episode is a revenue acceleration series interview where we talk to seven figure B2B professional service firm owners that are actively trying to grow their business and get to the next level. We talk about the good, the bad and the ugly so that you can learn from their experience.
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Intentional Hiring to Drive Revenue Growth
Tim Fitzpatrick
Welcome to the Rialto Marketing podcast. Today's episode is a revenue acceleration series interview where we talk to seven-figure B2B service from owners who are actively trying to grow their business and get to the next level. We talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly so that you can learn from their experience. Thank you so much for taking the time to tune in. I am Tim Fitzpatrick with Rialto Marketing, where we believe you must remove your revenue roadblocks if you want to accelerate growth, and marketing shouldn't be difficult. I am super excited to have Jessica Harris from Harris Energy Solutions with me today. Jessica, welcome, and thanks for being here.
Jessica Harris
Thanks for having me, Tim.
Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, absolutely. I'm excited to dig into this with you today. Before we do that, I want to ask you just a few rapid fire questions to get things started. You ready to jump in with both feet?
Jessica Harris
Let's do it.
Tim Fitzpatrick
Okay. So very quickly, what do you do and how long have you been doing it?
Jessica Harris
So my degree is a mechanical engineer, but since then and since starting and graduating, I guess, it was almost 18 years ago, I have been doing energy engineering, and more specifically, energy consulting. So the company which I own is called Harris Energy Solutions, incorporated in 2016. And yeah, we basically work for any commercial or industrial client. We find ways that they can save energy, whether it's installing renewable opportunities or documenting what their heating, ventilation, air conditioning is and coming up with paths of either fine-tuning it or replacing it with more energy-efficient alternatives. A long road, but that mechanical engineering background really feeds well into that. Into that work.
Tim Fitzpatrick
What's the most important lesson you've learned so far in running your business?
Jessica Harris
I guess... I mean, there's so many. It's hard to pick.
Tim Fitzpatrick
I get it. It's a hard question because any of us that have run a business for any period of time know that we've learned so many different things. But I'm always curious just to see what comes top of mind for people.
Jessica Harris
Yeah. I want to say, if I have to pick, I'm going to pick two. Cool. But one of them is accountability. I know in a couple of the questions, you're going to hear me repeat that a lot. People have to rely on you. They have to trust you. You have to build a relationship. And relationship and accountability go together. Say what you mean and then deliver on it. That's a huge lesson. I found that when I don't do that, or things happen, it's not always my fault. That's when things really fall apart. And then the other one is you have to make sure you bill for your work and you make money. And you have to, I hate to say that you have to honestly always keep that in mind. You have to keep having revenue. You have to be able to support all the things that you do and all the things you want to do. I feel like in the beginning, I was just like, oh, my gosh, I have a business. What am I doing? But now I'm very, very keen to, Well, are we going to make a profit? It's more of a focus. Those two, I would say.
Tim Fitzpatrick
Do you have any kind of mantra or motivational saying that you say to yourself to push through those tough times or share with your team?
Jessica Harris
Motivational. That's a good one. I like a lot is, I can conquer anything and everything that comes my way. I know that sounds a little cheesy, but I feel like also too, a lot of times we get into really interesting scenarios of even it's like an application or a very complex engineering calculation. We're like, what do we do? It's like, we're going to... Or actually I want to go back. Everything is figure outable. I actually got that as a sign in one of the offices I sent that to my director, because it really is. You have to have an open mind. But it goes along with the other thing where you conquer anything. That tone.
Tim Fitzpatrick
One of mine that actually is very appropriate to what you just shared is that flexibility is the key to stability. And that was a quote, I believe, from John Wooden. But gosh, it's just so appropriate in business and in life where it's like, we just have to be flexible, right? We can't possibly see all the things that are going to be coming at us in the future. And man, we just have to have the ability to to adapt.
Jessica Harris
Adapt and change, absolutely.
Building a Company That Isn't Planned
Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, I love it. So you started your business in 2016. You never planned to start a company, but you did. Tell us more about that journey.
Jessica Harris
Yeah. I was very happily a senior energy engineer for a very large firm. I worked with a great group of people. My salary was great. I had a great balance of being on site and then also at home, where I felt like always engaged. And then, I was getting that point in my life where I wanted to have a family and settle down. It all merged together. And so I ended up moving here for my then husband, and we did just that. And in the move, I thought, Texas, wow, maybe a lot of their energy comes from oil or natural gas, and different things, but I just really feel like they're on the forefront of energy and that I would have no problem finding a similar job with exact pay. A little naive, but it was okay. I immediately started going to all these meetings and meet people and understand the landscape of Texas. What I found is energy managers, they got paid, honestly, about half of what I was making, and that was pretty rough. You're talking about a 45-minute commute there and back. I was like, Oh, man, the cost of living here is, well, I don't know about anymore, but when I moved down here, it was. It was just an alarming thing. So I talked to my mentors and I was like, What do I do? I was able to work part-time for a while, so that was really nice with the company I was with. They were very kind to do that. But I knew that that did have an end date, so I had to come up with a plan. And a lot of them were just like, Jess, a lot of people in our industry, we need to fulfill a diversity requirement. That can be anything from minority woman business ownes I can go on for hours for that. But they're like, why don't you just start your own firm? I could hire you this month. I was like, Well, I still do have this part-time gig, so I could see how it goes, what start a business, really, honestly, if you don't have a brick and mortar and stuff, it's about a thousand dollars. I'm like, Why don't I get to try? That's the cost of a phone, really, if you think about it. I was like, I just think of... I actually did work for a a small businesswoman, and I was like, She could do it. I could do it. Why not? I just never really thought about it. I know actually a couple of my people that I worked with, they actually went off and they have one or two person firms, and they live a very comfortable life. I was like, That's all I thought about. I was like, That'll be good. It'll be a little bit more stress because I have to bring in my own jobs. It's probably every business owner's worry, especially in the service industry. But other than that, I know I'm capable. I know I can do it. So, yeah, I just slowly dabbled into it and started off slow. In the beginning, it was 20 hours a month, maybe. And then after a while, you get one client, then you get another client. And then pretty soon, about almost two years in, I did have my children at the same time. It was a very busy time. I literally had both of them back to back, and it it, yeah, it really took off, and it's just continuing. And I just can't believe how much, how far I've come of just an idea. I think it's important to know that my main thought when I started, I was like, you know what? I just want the flexibility to be with my kids whenever I want to. It's pretty funny. I gave up 40 hours a week to I work every spare minute of every minute of every day. But it's fine because I want to meet my daughter for lunch, I do. And if I want to go on a field trip with my son, I do. And you know what I mean? Nobody questions it. And I just I balance everything around these these focal beliefs. So, yeah, that's just how it happened, and it's just becoming such a beautiful, wonderful thing.
Intentional Hiring to Drive Revenue Growth
Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. What's been the biggest driver of your growth so far?
Jessica Harris
Well, I think there's a lot of ways to grow.
Tim Fitzpatrick
There are.
Jessica Harris
I think we have grown very naturally. I think that's something that a lot of people don't do. And I do have to say it probably stresses the people that work for me because you really have to wait till you have the work to hire, right? Which and then when you go, when you're like, I'm going to hire somebody that takes the process too, right? So I've always done that. And then, like I said, when I started, I thought this was going to be me, maybe an intern. But it's really become my driver is my people. I feel definitely a responsibility for them, for their family. And, I I really do. I take that very personally, and it motivates me, though. Whenever sometimes I'm tired, I'm like, oh, maybe I'll just leave early today. It's like, well, no, there's a lot of mouth to feed here, and I have to make sure everything's taken care of. It definitely drives me. And I I have an amazing executive team, Robin and Doug, and they feel the same burden. And it's nice that I'm able to share that, but still that is probably the main thing and then I think another driver is the relationships you build over time. We have trust, our clients trust us. Actually, one of our clients just told us a month ago, we are the HES failout plan. When your project is going into heck, give us a call and we'll straighten it out. We'll get it done. We'll bring the hammer down and get you back on path because all these stuff can get very overwhelming. And we're always being consider that sub. That really is great. They help you. You're not just hiring them because you have this diversity requirement. You're hiring them because you want to. And it's like we use that opportunity and we have just gone, leaned in completely for it.
Tim Fitzpatrick
It sounds like early on, you had connections already in the space that you were able to get your initial jobs going, right? And it seems like you were able to really leverage that into more work and then more work and more work. And it just continued to build. Do you find with industrial and commercial clients, are a number of your clients repeat because they're continuing to expand? And are there really good referral type partnerships with construction management companies or things like that that are bringing you into projects as well? What does that look like?
Jessica Harris
Yeah, we don't really have a referral program yet. I do think that would be a great way to... A lot of people, I honestly do it because I think they just truly like us and they want us to see there is actually people out there that do that. So as far as the referral one, I think people refer us because they had a great experience and they want to share that. As far as... I like what you said about growing with these primes, we'll call them, even though we're becoming a prime ourselves. But we do grow with them for sure. But it's, again, it's showing up. It's getting things. I was talking out accountability. If you are constantly like that, and everyone on your team is like that, and we treat all projects the same, large or small. We have these little farm audits. They're everybody's favorite. And so I don't think I've made money on a single one of them. But it's like, cool, They're like, call cow farms. You know what I mean? But the thing is, even something as little as that, we're still like, we're going to... I remember the first time we submitted it, they actually wrote to us. They're like, wow, this is one of the best audits we've ever seen. I Actually, I save these things. I save, scratch them. I have a happy folder. But it's like this stuff matters, and people talk, and it's like, after a while, you build this momentum from trust and accountability and just doing the right thing, too. I'm sure you know, there are so many opportunities in a day you could go astray and, Oh, hey, if you get us this job, you cannot mess with that, especially we are supposed to be an independent person to a project. Do you know what I mean? It's literally the core of what we're saying. We're giving this advice because it's the best thing to do. So always be on the straight narrow. Again, that goes with that trust. With these, and these clients just bring us back over and over. It's wonderful. And even today, there's one company I've been with them almost seven years now. And I still, when they send me a job, I go, thank you, really, from the... And I mean it. It's like, you can't take this stuff for granted either. I really went on a tangent there, but I don't know if I answered your question.
Tim Fitzpatrick
No, it's totally okay. Because it's just... You know, some people... It seems like you guys obviously do great work. You continue to get referrals, but it's not... Some people really struggle to grow, right? Even with referrals because they're not getting enough referrals or there's not enough work. So you certainly have been in a really strong position to be able to continue to grow like you have with referrals. And like I said, it speaks volumes to the type of work that you guys do and the quality of work you do.
The Biggest Challenges in Managing Sales and Projects
Tim Fitzpatrick
One of the things that we talked about in the pre-interview was that you and your director are are responsible for sales and your managing projects. What have been the biggest challenges you faced in managing both roles? And how have you worked to overcome those?
Jessica Harris
I would first like to start that there's not enough time in a day. Yeah, and it's interesting. I actually did a 10,000 Small Businesses Goldman Sachs program. I don't know if you heard of it, but it was interesting. That is one great thing I got from talking to all these other business owners. You know what? There's no one who sells your... No one is going to sell your business better than you, right? So unfortunately, until we get so big where I can hire a business development person, then it has to be me. Then the next best in line is the second in command, really. It is a lot of hat shifting. You have to change day to I think that's always been one of my strengths, to be honest. My whole life, I have always been able to adapt, and I have this resiliency about me where you just can't get too tied up into anything because you got to just move forward and you got to just shift to one year in a not. Sometimes it's very hard. I'll have a conversation with my lawyer about a contract, what we're trying to push back on. Then I'm jumping into a PVSys calculation. Well, why did we put this this way? Then the next second, we're interviewing for a project, and it's wow, you really feel like you're just flying all over the place. And I do really have a goal that I will not be doing that forever, where I eventually do want to bring in really great talent to almost do that better than me. I love hiring people smarter than me, better than me. I want to bring in the best people to serve my clients. So I guess that's what you're overcoming. You're overcoming having to switch back and forth. And then another thing we're doing is I really want to hire internally. That's something that's very important to me. We have a lot of young staff, too. On the younger end, if you compare us to some of the others. And we have created this hierarchy from our internal staff. We call them our mid-level managers. I just think it's just an invaluable experience. Even that hasn't worked out for me. Some have left. I invest so much time and energy in teaching them, and they leave, and it's painful, really. And you think you have this relationship, and they just go. But I think it's so important that these younger people get this leadership experience. And it's like, but man, if they can stick it out, and it's like, man, they're going to be great. And it's like, I feel like they'll feel more worth. And that's one of the things we've done to compad it, is try to create this hierarchy, and eventually, and then also give people a path. I think that's a lot of people's hesitancy of going to a small business. They're like, Well, am I ever going to move up? Am I going to get promoted, or am I just going to be stuck in the same? It's like, Yeah, that's it. I'm creating it. I'm creating this ladder for you. I think it's been working, but it also has not worked, too.
Tim Fitzpatrick
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Well, it's not going to work every time, but I was going to say before you brought it up, when you hire internally, it does show people that, Gosh, there is a path as we continue to grow, which I think is a great thing. I guess there are a lot of business owners that are wearing multiple hats like you are, and it's definitely not a good thing. I think It can be challenging at times. Do you think you will hire sales or project management first?
Jessica Harris
Project management.
Tim Fitzpatrick
Okay. Yeah.
Jessica Harris
Yeah.
Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. I agree with that. I think it's much... It's not easy to find good people, period. But I think when you're promoting from within, I think you have a really strong candidate pool to have them start managing more projects so that you can focus on the sales side of it, which I think makes a ton of sense.
Balancing Growth and Maintaining the Company Culture
Tim Fitzpatrick
How do you balance the need for growing while maintaining your company culture? I know you've worked hard to build that. How do you do that? Or how do you think about it?
Jessica Harris
Balancing growth and maintaining the company culture is a key to ensuring long term success for sure. I think we prioritize both being intentional about our hiring practice and focusing on values alignment from the start. We have a very specific way we hire. Some people might say it's a bit ridiculous. We actually have three rounds of interviews. But to me, I want the interviewer to also see what we're like, Are we a good fit for you? Interviews are both ways. That's another thing. Sometimes I get grumbling. It's just I'm like, This is how it is. We've actually had a couple of bad hires, and it's when we didn't follow this process. Let's see, we also use value-based interview processes where we ask questions that reveal how can us approach collaboration, problem solving, ethical decision making, that's sometimes hard to bring up, but we want to emphasize continuous communication, training. That's another thing I'm really big on training. We have our yearly reviews, and that's one of my first questions after we're through everything. Well, what start you're going to get this year? How are we improving you? Even if it's just something, too, maybe even just a speech, you want to work on speaking, public speaking, anything. What are you lacking? And how can we address that head on? I think, additionally, too, we encourage open dialog across teams and ensure leadership exemplifies the culture on how to sustain that. I know just recently, I feel like we actually had a period of time where we moved away from that, and it wasn't intentional. It was just we were just rolling on just project and project and project. And even my director, he goes to the offices now and literally sits down and checks in with the mid-level managers and like, how is things going? Like be in the same room. And I think that's really good. I'm really sad that for a while we lost that just in the hustle and bustle. But it isn't easy to your point, the question, we do have our core values. We actually have to remake our video. We had a video. We have some people leave, so we have to swap them out. But one thing I actually, you reminded me of this question, I actually have the core values in this really pretty sign. I have to get them printed out, and I want to put them in the offices.
Jessica Harris
Just have it in front of people. This is what makes us us, and it makes us different.
Tim Fitzpatrick
How many people do you have on your team?
Jessica Harris
Oh, gosh. People ask me all the time. I never know, and I feel bad. Somewhere between 20 and 24 now.
Tim Fitzpatrick
Okay. Are they all in-house? Do any of them work remote? What does that look like?
Jessica Harris
Oh, yeah. You know what? That's another thing that I think makes us different is we are definitely very hybrid. We have many offices. There are a couple of staff that are outside of that, and they only go occasionally. But, yeah, we have a hybrid and remote. A lot of times there is a lot of field work. I want to say you get a pretty large project, 25% of you are going to be in the field collecting all this information, the other 75, you're going to be here and be a way of calcs. You're going to be here, you're going to be crying away at calcs, you're going to be writing reports. You're going to be making sure everything's calibrated, everything's correct. It's a nice blend, which I said that's what I had originally. It's good. I think it's a good mix.
Tim Fitzpatrick
How did you... It sounds like you have a pretty detailed hiring process. How did you formulate that? Did you guys hire a consultant to help you with that?
Jessica Harris
Learning from mistakes. It's literally that. Every day, that's one of the things I tell my dad all the time. I'm like, I fail sometimes 30 times before lunch. But you learn so much from failing. But it's like, how do you react to that? One of the instances I remember we were bringing on a pretty high profile person, and it ended up at the end, we were at the end of it, and we thought she wanted a certain salary, and then we go to make the offer. We got that far, and she was like, Oh, I want way more than that. But if we had known that from the beginning, you're talking two months of effort here, right? And I'm like, Oh, how did we mess that up? That was one of our questions in the first interview, and I was like, Nope, no more. There's a form. You're filling out a form, and the form, you're going to write it down yourself. So We are clear of what you want. And that's just a good example. So I'm like, okay. Also the intake forms, too. It's pretty interesting. Sometimes it does tell you how long it takes the person to fill out. Sometimes it's like an hour. You're like, this probably should have taken you five minutes. All right, you're really stressing about this. But it's just different things like that. And some people, they just leave some... There's only five blanks. They leave blank. They leave them and I'm like, you're probably not too serious about this. And that's why we do the three-tier thing. It used to be like me and Dang just did all the interviews. And let me say we made some mistakes. I have people chipping at me like, well, if I interviewed them, I was like, you know what? You're probably right. If you had interviewed them, this would never have happened. So let's do that. It's like you're saying, being adaptable, changing. And it's like all these things that have went wrong, like hiring these people that were just dreadful. It's be coming up with the process. No, I did not talk to any agency. That would sound really nice if that was a solution.
Tim Fitzpatrick
So you really, every time you made a mistake in the hiring process, you took the time to figure out, where did we go wrong? And you filled that gap moving forward.
Jessica Harris
Yes. And we actually just made one of those changes today, too. Like, with references, people get references. We need to screen them ourselves. Like, do we want to reach out to these people? Sometimes you don't. Yeah, literally, you learn every day. It's absolutely...
Tim Fitzpatrick
I love that because a lot of businesses struggle with hiring, right?
Jessica Harris
It's really hard.
Tim Fitzpatrick
It's not an easy thing. Frankly, I don't think it's an easy thing on both sides of the fence. I haven't looked for a job in a long, long time. But from what I hear, gosh, it's like sometimes you're just putting stuff out there and you feel like it's going into the ether, right? As a job candidate, on the flip side, as an employer, it's like, my gosh, we're getting people, but gosh, nobody is the right fit. So I think finding that balance is important. But on the employer side, having that process that really is defined, that you follow and you don't skip steps, helps ensure that you get a consistent output.
Jessica Harris
It's also fair, too. No candidate should have more advantage over another. It should be an evil, even plan. And even I have, I don't want to say friends. That sounds weird, but I've had friends like, oh, I should join. And I'm like, okay, you're going to go through the same hiring process that everyone else does. It doesn't matter that I know you and that I've worked with you in the past. You're going to get the intake form. But yeah, I I think it's good. And you just keep learning. It's good. Try not to get too frustrated when it does blow up.
Conclusion
Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah. So what's next? I mean, your business is growing well. You guys are doing great work. You keep getting more jobs. Where's your vision taking you?
Jessica Harris
I don't know. We've talked about maybe adding some subsidiaries, maybe, like spinoffs of certain tasks we think we could do, but we haven't really done that yet. We have a couple of ideas, but nothing is really formalized. I have a silly goal of being the best engineering consulting firm in the world. It's just keep dreaming. I think another part is to set goals. Kind of crazy, but realistic, right? I think it keeps you young. It also keeps focused. If you have something to shoot for, each day you get up and you make a bunch of decisions that match up to that. That's the core values, I think. But yeah, I guess I want to keep growing. But the one part that I'm super concerned about is I don't want to lose our quality of work. And that's very hard because of the management piece, which we talked about. So that's what we keep saying to yourself every day. And we want to, I think, just keep that mentality and keep ensuring that our quality of work is good, and keep making all of our clients happy, and then make decisions too. I haven't quite really said no to a project. I don't think I'm there, but I know that the larger firms that I talk with, they turn down stuff all the time or like, there's an opportunity. I'm like, oh, we should partner on this. We're not going to go after it. I'm like, what? But when I get to that point where I feel like we can do that, I think that will be very... You have to be strategic with a lot of things and what your goals are and what's next. But yeah, I want to keep growing, but I want to keep growing where we keep that culture. Maybe ruffle the feathers a little bit, but also keep that quality. I want to be a brand name. I want to keep being everyone's bailout plan, and also their answer to, I mean, we've saved people millions of dollars. That's the cool part about it. I feel like you get that, too. I'm preaching to the choir here, but we really offer a lot of value to our clients. And I think that's why repeat work isn't really hard.
Tim Fitzpatrick
Do you think that you can continue to hit your growth goals with the way that you have grown up to this point?
Jessica Harris
I think so. I think so. Yeah, but like I said, you have to keep adjusting your sales. And the more and more we're finding the more and more people you bring on, that's what led to the mid-level management decision. The more and more people you have, it's impossible to spread yourself across all areas you need to. It's learning to delegate, letting things go and letting things crash and burn. I hate to say, I know it sounds awful, but you do. And it's okay, because you've already learned it, but you're your analyst needs to, your engineer. They need to see why, but be there to help them. And of course, minimize the damage. Don't just go send it out. You know what I'm saying? We'll try it first, see if you can get it to work. Okay, where did it fail? I do the same thing with my daughter. Just like, sometimes you have to let them fail. And it's just like, you know all the answers, but it's important that they grow, too. And it's in a controlled scenario.
Tim Fitzpatrick
In a controlled environment.
Jessica Harris
I'm not going to go flying down a hill and roller skates or something. But you know what I mean? Maybe skate around the rink, though.
Tim Fitzpatrick
I get it. So knowing what you know now, is there anything you would do differently?
Jessica Harris
One thing I did want to talk about is, you don't... Because we're a service industry, right? Yeah. And it's one of... Engineering is one of the oldest professions in the world. You can't go from zero to 100, right? You have to understand that there's building blocks, and they must be established to demonstrate that you have the capacity and the capability to do the work, right? It's almost like school, right? You go to college. Did you really learn anything? No, you just learn how to learn, right? And it's the same thing. I think when I started or when I was hiring people, I'm like, we must It's like, you have to allow these blocks to develop, and they have to happen so that you can keep going. We're looking at jobs now. When it was five of us, I'm like, I can't even imagine. It's... But because we allowed it, we went through and we gritted out of it. Some of these, we would take jobs, and they were just, I knew I wasn't going to make any money off of them. But you know what? It kept the lights on. It paid everybody. And yeah, I would have loved to make more profit, but...
Tim Fitzpatrick
It gave you additional experience.
Jessica Harris
It allows you to get larger projects, advertise for them, and keep existing clients. But yeah, I think our unique thing, if you look at other consultants, we're very technical. I think we're almost more like engineers rather than consultants. But if you look at what we do and the projects we do, we really are consultants. Does that make sense? I feel like other people don't have all that background where they can literally talk about everything we've put in a report we can talk about and tell you why.
Tim Fitzpatrick
I love it. Well, Jessica, thank you so much for taking the time and sharing your experience. Where can people learn more about you if they want to connect?
Jessica Harris
Yeah, I know you have my LinkedIn. We're pretty active on, I don't know if anyone uses Facebook anymore, but my mom does, so I will stay on there. Facebook, Instagram, and then LinkedIn, of course. We've done that. We've posted all our new hires. Www.Hesconnect.com is our website. All of that is fed through there. But yeah, it's definitely there's even a contact button. We have... You may laugh, but getting a phone number was a really big deal and a fax number. I think I went five years without having it. And one of the responses was like, what's your fax number? I'm like, crap, we better get that real quick. But we have a main line. We have several admin. Happy to talk to you. Obviously, we get a lot of cold calls, but sometimes we get really exciting stuff to work on. But definitely reach out. And thank you so much for your time, Tim.
Tim Fitzpatrick
Yeah, absolutely. I I appreciate yours. So go connect with Jessica over at hesconnect.com . Her LinkedIn profile we will put in the show notes. Unfortunately, there's multiple Jessica Harris's on LinkedIn, so you may have a hard time finding her right away. So we'll make sure that link gets directly in there. And thank you so much for sharing your journey, and certainly wish you the best as you continue to go down this path. Those of you that are watching and listening I appreciate you. And if you want to connect with us, you can do that at rialtomarketing.com , rialtomarketing.com . The other resource we've got for you is over at revenueroadblockscorecard.com . When we work with clients, we help them remove the nine revenue roadblocks within marketing. If you want to know which ones are slowing down your growth, that's where you can find out in less than five minutes. Thank you again. Until next time. Take care.
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