The impact of work on society

An interview with Sebastian Tietz: CMO Atos Unify

Today, I had the pleasure of talking to Sebastian Tietz, the insightful, charismatic, and future-thinking Chief Marketing Officer and Head of Cloud at Atos Unify.

As an expert in the macro and micro influences that affect businesses, I wanted to ask him four big questions about the future of work.

Companies around the world are struggling with adapting to the constantly changing ways of working. Whilst Hybrid is one solution, we mustn’t forget that the frontline or deskless employee makes up 60-80% of the workforce, according to various estimates.

What do you believe will be the key changes in the structure of the way we work?

ST: The biggest fear, and I do mean fear, is that we are currently creating two kinds of working societies. On one side you have the workers who must physically be there and do things, the people from construction to bus driving, teaching to healthcare.

I know a couple of people from my years as a paramedic and they feel like they are getting a raw deal compared to other jobs. They need to be there every day for up to 50 hours a week, doing very stressful work. There is no alternative for them.

Then we have what I call the luxury problems – how much hybrid work can I do? when do I need to be in the office? do I really want to work five days a week? And I think these two societies will grow apart at an even greater rate.

We will struggle to attract people to professions that offer no flexibility. It’s ok when we're all in it together, we don't mind so much, but when we see our friends taking lunches, spending time with family, doing what they want on a day-to-day basis, then it becomes a lot harder to take and I believe this will cause tension in our society.

As far as the knowledge worker, one thing I can tell you is that nearly all organizations are struggling like hell to find a balance. Google for example, told staff to stay at home as long as they want. Now they are back peddling, and fast, ‘expecting’ people to go in 4 days a week. And this is a company that is pretty advanced in work-from-home capabilities. So, I think this is a way bigger challenge than people acknowledge currently.

Every company, including ourselves are facing challenges around a return to the office policy. Most believe it will help collaboration, culture and creativity but we’re hearing from employees around the world that people are simply unwilling to return to the office.

I read a report recently where 80% of US employees wanted to work from home. It's hard to convince these people differently when companies have had record profits, high productivity, and improved employee satisfaction.

There are many statistics to support remote working and we as a company can provide the tools and solutions for this, but I have not found any evidence that paints a different picture.

Hybrid and remote working have changed the way we work. Tech products and solutions continue to improve and now it is estimated that over 1.2 billion* employees will be affected by automation technologies.

What tech and solutions do you believe will have the greatest impact and how?

The answer is way tougher than you might expect. The short answer would be collaboration and communication tools. They will undoubtedly be improved and we are already in a position to create bespoke solutions for the needs of different sectors. But in my opinion, it’s much bigger than that.

It’s about creating an environment, creating the right energy, where you can inspire people and give them the autonomy to perform.

But you know what the big challenge is? Getting feedback. It’s getting harder and harder to get valuable feedback. And that’s because we’re often not in the room together. When we are in the room together, I can look in your eyes and I know you will have an opinion and I can ask you directly and get it out of you. You know what I mean, that little bit of poking that allows honest discussion. In a digital setting, the ones who have contradictory opinions tend to say nothing.

So, for me, it starts with the culture of open feedback and honest discussion. I believe it is one of the most important elements of teamwork, as it provides insightful information for the decision-maker to assess and ensures the people providing the feedback have been heard and feel valued.

On the solutions side, there’s some fancy AI technology that I believe will have a real-world impact, rather than just in theory. I like the look of Sentiment Analysis. We’re already testing this and it is smart at detecting customer sentiment. It can tell if a customer is getting pissed-off (excuse my German), if they are using trigger words or their tone is higher or different. Then they reroute that customer to somebody who has special education in calming angry customers down.

Now this AI together with some intelligent forwarding will no doubt speed up the time to resolve a situation, but it still requires human empathy to make the customer happy and I don’t think AI will ever be able to replace that.

In fact, I will make a big statement I’m sure others will disagree with, but I don’t think Artificial Intelligence actually exists. What do I mean by that? Well, the industry tries to create a perception, that there is a self-learning bigger thing than us sitting in the cloud. And this is simply a lie. Because AI is machine learning and machine learning is 100% based on feedback and judgment and often that feedback can be flawed.

There are tens of thousands of people doing micro jobs in lower-cost countries. Now these jobs may involve describing 1,000 pictures day and night. The problem is, someone may see a picture and ‘translate’ it differently due to their country and culture. Maybe they see an unshaven man wearing ‘street clothing’ and presume he is homeless. I know I’m exaggerating but these pictures are judged. On a practical level, even the description of ‘tall’ will be very different in different countries.

Now AI can’t correct that. So, there is no real Artificial Intelligence. This is currently human-based machine learning based on feedback. John Searle’s Chinese room theory explores the difference between a computer ‘literally’ understanding the Chinese language and merely simulating the ability to understand Chinese. As the machine is simply following step-by-step procedures, Searle concludes that it does not actually have a mind. I agree with this sentiment.

The real big question is whether AI will replace jobs. I was just talking about this with my team the other day and my answer to them was ‘Relax, it's only uncertainty’.

I studied economics for seven years, so I'm really deep into macroeconomics and I don't think that in the midterm this will kill jobs. Yes, statistics show that we are losing some jobs but we’re talking a mid-single-digit percentage. Now that’s not good for individuals but in the grand scheme, it’s a minor issue compared to the aging workforce in America, Europe, Japan, and even China. We are losing thousands every day and we cannot automate or digitize processes as quickly as we are losing the workforce.

If we are getting a higher level of automated documentation in healthcare, for example, it's great because the fact is we now have less doctors. So, if we can free up 10% of their time with more automatization so that they can take care of more patients, that’s a very good thing.

So, I don’t think we’re all going to lose our jobs. I see it as an evolution of the way we work. It will just be the technology we use to free up time on monotonous and repetitive tasks, allowing us to use our time and knowledge elsewhere.

Think of it this way. Did you know that 55% of all news including social media is bought (or automated creation). Now that would suggest job losses but there is more news and more channels than ever before. Whether it is of a higher or lower standard is for you to judge.

You mentioned earlier that you believe in creating the right environment for people and ideas to thrive. What changes are you seeing as CMO regarding people and their work needs and motivations?

It’s funny you ask as today I’m in the Stuttgart office and I was talking to a great employee who I hired three months ago. Now I took them for lunch as I think it’s important to get to know my team. Just two hours ago, I asked them how they were with the job. What they liked and what matters to them. During our conversation, it was clear that they need purpose and to feel that they are doing tasks that matter, that make a difference.

Now, it’s also important to get paid sufficiently. In fact, I heard a phrase recently where people were encouraged to ‘act your wage’. Meaning they will put in the relevant amount of work that their wage dictates. It may not be everyone’s top priority but it’s in the top three. I think it’s because it gives you freedom and helps you prepare for the next stages of your life, so you don’t feel stuck.

The third point she said and perhaps the most important is that she wanted to work in an environment where she was close to her team. She said she's never worked in a department where people laugh as much as we laugh. Yet, we’re able to switch very quickly to being serious to get things done.

You see, technology is a wonderful thing, but people are also looking for more human connection and that feeling of being part of a close group and truly belonging there.

Now, the other thing people are looking for on a much wider scale is flexibility. I believe in trusting my team to deliver, so I give them the freedom and flexibility to do their best work. If they take advantage of that and don’t deliver, then I come down on them hard, very hard.

I’m even having personal discussions about going into the office as it takes me an hour each way. I don’t have much time in the day as it is and I know I can be more productive than sitting in traffic. With the current housing situation and cost of living crisis, there are many employees who simply can’t afford to live near the office. Is it more likely that they will commute 4hrs a day or find a job that offers remote working? This is big challenge and the key word is balance but currently it is something we are not going to agree about.

As Head of Cloud, you have to be on the pulse of what the market is looking for. What are the main challenges you are seeing from customers and how can we provide solutions to them now and in the future?

Well, the Capex versus Opex discussion is a topic that is always on the agenda. But that really depends on the industry and the individual company’s situation and investment cycle. The industries that are growing simply don’t care and are willing to pay, while others may only have the budgets in the next quarters.

As far as more urgent needs, the biggest threat is security data and sovereignty.

There is simply mistrust in all data. Nobody trusts Facebook, nobody trusts Amazon and everybody is dealing data.

We have come to the point where data is floating around the entire Internet and we just have to accept that. There won't be a day in two or three years when somebody finds the silver bullet and makes your transactions, your data, your stuff secure. So, the biggest challenge is to see how we can use and leverage data and the Cloud in the most secure way possible.

Google recently got hit with a €1.2 billion fine for data breaches and I think companies will realize they can’t stop it or it’s not financially viable to stop it and will actually bake these fines into their business cases.

I thought the move to the Cloud may slow down following Covid but it is still accelerating. There was a perception that people care more about data sovereignty and that we can't use Teams in Schools, for example. schools. But it seems people kind of gave up, even those in highly regulated industries such as finance. The technology is simply moving too fast and everything is so interconnected.

With remote and Hybrid working, many companies feel they need more control. They want to see what their employees are doing and therefore monitoring tools are in demand. Through AI and the latest tools, the technology is able to report back on employee activities in a much more comprehensive way than it ever has before. But I go back to the issue of trust and understanding human behaviour, that no AI could ever appreciate.

I encourage my team to take breaks, to go walking out into the woods. I do it regularly and I can assure you I come back with more energy and better solutions than I would have achieved typing into a screen. A lot of what I do involves creativity and the ability to be creative, truly creative with an idea or solution that hasn’t been done before is not an on-demand function, and certainly not something AI is able to do at the moment.

?*World Economic Forum