"I'm here to build a great brand and I believe in this company” - Erika Nardini

Checkout this week's new episode of #NoLimits Podcast featuring the CEO of Barstool Sports, Erika Nardini:

On today's episode, Erika Nardini beat out more than 70 other candidates -- all of them men -- to land her dream job as the first ever CEO of Barstool Sports. It's a sometimes controversial brand that caters mostly to guys and she's helped lead the company to explosive growth. So how did she find her North Star? And what has she learned about confronting controversy? You're about to find out.

R: Erika Nardini. Welcome to No Limits!

E: Thank you.

R: You are the CEO of Barstool Sports, and one of the reasons I wanted to have you on our show not only because you've been incredibly successful the first CEO of the company you started 2016?

E: Yes.

R: And you've now, since you've been there achieved over 8x revenue growth – 700% growth in brand advertising and 300% growth in commerce. That's what your official bio says so it might even be more than that at this point.

E: Yes sure I’ll take it.

R: It probably is. But one of the reasons I wanted to have you here on No Limits is so often we speak to women who have created or are running companies that are primarily for a female audience.

E: Sure.

R: Sure they encompass other audiences as well but the focus is women. The focus of Barstool Sports - primarily men.

E: Sure our audience is definitely male.

R: So for our audience who might be new to Barstool Sports how would you describe it?

E: I, there’s so many ways to describe Barstool and Barstool’s super layered and I think it's the most interesting and disruptive brand and media company of our time. It started as a blog. Dave Portnoy would describe it as a 15 year reality show and how I think of Barstool is, it's a platform whether it be on social or podcasts or merchandise or live events that basically understands what you know 18 to 34 year old men and really 18 to 34 year old people want to see, think is funny. What engages them, we’re a media company that lives on the same level as our fans, we are 24/7 we talk to our audiences constantly which is how I think most companies should and will look like in the future. But mostly we're a comedy brand that guys in particular relate to because we get them. We we have a lot of guys who are exactly like our fans. And we're building a big business around that.

R: By the way Dave Portnoy He goes by El Pres.

E: El Pres. Creator and Founder of Barstool Sports. Look he created he created a newspaper that turned into a blog which was how he saw the world - which was completely unfiltered, he saw it as a fan. He saw it as a single guy living in Boston and then he found other guys who had unfiltered super authentic takes on anything from sports to sports teams to personalities to the media to dating life to city life whatever. And we on average Barstool creates about 180 pieces of content a day and some of those people don't like they're very controversial, we have a strong opinion. Our guys have a strong opinion about almost anything.

R: It's unfiltered.

E: Very.

R: There are those who love it. Those who hate it.

E: Yep.

R: There are those who call it sexist.

E: Yep.

R: At his point I want to get into all of that with you. But I also think first of all you were a Barstool Sports fan which… They’re called stoolies.

E: Yep.

R: So you were a fan when you came to CEO you had worked for companies like Microsoft, AOL, Fidelity Investments. When you took over as CEO first of all you're the first CEO of the company even though it had been around for a while. Second of all you're the first female period inside of the company.

E: I'm the second female.

R: The second.

E: The first female was Jenna Marbles who went on and still has a fabulous career. I was the first when I joined Barstool there were no other women. I was the first CEO and really their first real business hire. There were a couple hires on the technical side and on the sales side but really their first business hire.

R: What did friends, family, mentors say to you when you were making the call?

E:  I knew the minute that I met the lead guys at Barstool that I I knew before I met them that I would want this job. I have always said that this was a dream job. So really to be honest I didn’t really care what anybody had to say but people did have a lot to say. You know that it was career suicide, that it was a horrible decision, that it was too much of a risk, and that you know that's one one side of feedback and then the other was you know how could you not do it. Can you get me a T-shirt if you work there so the people who were fans. I remember the weekend I was in Massachusetts and the weekend before I took the job, I was talking to a bunch of my friends - my professional friends thought it generally thought it was a bad decision. Some thought it was a good decision. My life friends were saying I remember asking one friend of mine who is a woman you know what do you think of Barstool and she is like I get all my news from Barstool which you know I said to myself like god, that’s really alarming but. So people. No one feels indifferent about Barstool and my decision to join Barstool met the same type of feedback that you hear about Barstool in general which is people love it, they get it they they see how different and how powerful and how unique this is. And then there are people who don't understand it, hate it, loathe it, you know diminish what it is and what it stands for so. I'm just a microcosm I think of how people feel about Barstool in general.

R: For those who thought it was a big risk what was their primary issue. What did they think might happen to you in your career if you took the job?

E: I don't think they saw what I saw in Barstool, and I don't think they believed in it. I don't think they found the humor and I honestly don't, I think I think most people who engage with Barstool actually find the humor in it because I think it's wickedly funny.

R: Is it your sense of humor would you say?

E: I love their sense of humor in general. I love our sense of humor. But I think people felt that it wasn't prescriptive. It wasn't someone like me should go do or what they would go the choices they would make.

R: What did they think you should go do?

E: Probably like a big CMO job or a President job or you know I don't know something. Something more traditional.

R: You had bet Chief Marketing Officer at AOL for many years. You were originally you were on a path thinking you might be a lawyer?

E: Yes. I originally thought I was going to be a lawyer and…

R: Ultimately?

E: It did not work out. No. I didn't want to be a lawyer. I felt bored. I was making a lot of money at the time. It was a very like brown, bland office and it just was not there. There wasn't any heart to it. There wasn't any heat to it. I was not passionate about what I was doing. I love to work. I've always loved to work and I wanted to be in a place where I could be intellectually really challenged. I wanted to have fun and laugh. I remember when I worked at Fidelity I you know, I would go out all the time and you know my girlfriends and I would get into all sorts of trouble. I lived with five women and I would spend I could get my work done in the legal department really fast. I could get my work done in like an hour and a half and then I spent the rest of the day like recapping exactly what happened the night before and who did what and why it was funny. Which in hindsight I think in hindsight it was probably a really horrible decision and a bad use of my time, but I needed a creative outlet. And I and I wanted to do something that made me laugh. And so I just chose to document what we, I mean in my personal life or whatever. But then when I moved into advertising I really loved advertising because it was a really creative medium. Every single day was different, the Internet was just starting and it was like a stepchild. Nobody wanted to work in the internet. Everyone wanted to work in print and I got opportunities to just learn and do. And I took those. And I've always I've just always been really curious.

R: You also seem like someone who's comfortable with risk.

E: Love risk, love risk. I get bored very easily. I like risk.

R: So in that vein with Barstool Sports it's there have been not just under your tenure but prior to you as well. There's plenty of controversy to talk about.

E: Sure.

R: ESPN which, the parent company that owns ABC News, Disney owns ESPN. ESPN last year pulled out of a deal with Barstool Sports after there were sexist comments on a podcast. Podcasting is another big part of the Barstool Sports business. Did it surprise you when ESPN pulled out?

E: As I was saying to your assistant that the last time I was here was when I was meeting with ESPN and I said I hadn't been here quite a while. So…

R: Did you have PTSD?

E: No I was fine. It was fine. ESPN pulled out because I think they they underestimated the perspective of Barstool from their employees so it wasn't. Nothing was said that current that they were reacting to the show we created was excellent. I stand by the talent of that show Dan Katz and PFT Commenter are incredibly talented and I think we made a show that was electric. We are very controversial//// Our guys have a strong opinion about almost anything. And ESPN is a far more controlled traditional environment and media company. But ultimately the internal politics and dynamics were were really strong and they you know they killed a great show in my opinion.

R: How do you think about it? Not just in the context of that one particular issue but in general when you hear women in the media industry, women in the sports industry there have been some recent ones coming out of the Olympics where they feel like it's a sexist message they feel personally attacked by the Barstool sports message and they think it's it's not about whether or not they're good or not at something but that it actually is about them being a woman.

E: Yeah I don't…I've maintained that I don't think Barstool is sexist and we do not have a sexist culture so our company culture is frankly really egalitarian, and way more egalitarian than you would find any traditional company that I've certainly worked for.

R: More so in the other companies that you worked for?

E: Absolutely.  No question.

R: You were hired out of 74 men.

E: Right yeah exactly. And I don't think that hired me because I was a woman. I don't think it hurt that I was a woman, but I think they hired me because they thought I could do the job and I did the job.

R: And you absolutely have.

E: So it works out. But look, part of what makes Barstool Barstool is that there's no agenda with Barstool it's anything for a laugh. And you know what I really am impressed by in our company is you talk to anyone on the creative side or on the business side or the production side and everyone is maniacal about did the joke land. Did the piece of content hit. Did the podcast work? Did the video work - did people like it. And beyond that, there's no agenda for Barstool. We also have about 40 bloggers, each one of them produces dozens of pieces of content a day and so some of the jokes hit some of the jokes missed some of the comments are dead on, some of the comments aren't exactly always right. But we are evolving from there so you know I don't think Barstool sets out to be controversial. I think we are perceived… The perception of Barstool is far more controversial than the reality. And I also think that when we screw up we acknowledge it and we set it right and we move on.

R: There was there was the the radio host fired from the comments about Chloe Kim.

E: Yes, Patrick Connor.

R: There are going to be people who are going to listen to this who are going to say how can a female work in a company like this? How do you answer that?

E: It's funny I get this question a lot. So so I don't think people ask the two you know I think Refinery 29 has Co-CEOs that are both male Condé Nast, run by a man. Hearst, run by a man. I don't think that they that those CEOs get questions about Cosmo and an article about sex tips in Cosmo. I get asked every single day about the editorial of Barstool Sports. I don't run the editorial of Barstool Sports I run Barstool Sports so one thing that's different is I get those questions all the time and I get a gender question thrown in there. When guys in my exact position - men in my position do not get that question. And men have always been the CEOs of media companies for women always. I think I have the only company that has a female CEO and a female CRO in the entire media business. So for me it's hypocritical because I get the gender question, I get the editorial question every day and I don't think that my peers get that question.

R: They're not having to defend themselves.

R: You raise such a good point. It's something it reminds me a little bit. Jenn Hyman the Founder of Rent the Runway and I were having a conversation about how hard it is in general for female firms to raise capital. And it's a little bit different from you but I think it's it rings a similar note which is for her when she goes into a podcast or an interview. There's always going to be a portion of the conversation that's dedicated to the sort of woman question, or whatever it is. And she made the point if I was a male CEO and founder the entire conversation would be about promoting the brand and talking about it. And I have I mean I really do think a lot about that question. So I appreciate where you're coming from there and I appreciate you for sharing that. I wonder, when it comes to the content which again you're not the overseer as you mentioned. Do you think that content would be as successful if for example the girls there's the girls section which is sort of like you know for lack of a better way of putting it like the Girls Gone Wild or you know type of content on the site. Would it be as powerful and popular with your crowd if you were to drop that type of section from Barstool Sports?

E: Yeah it’s a great question. And just credit to you are. You know it's funny I did an interview last week. You're the only person that's mentioned ever the stats about what we've done with this business. I appreciate that because I do think I generally get questions of the questions I get are ‘why would you ever go work there?’ ‘What do you think about being a woman working there.’ ‘What's it like as a woman,’ you know. ‘Is it sexist.’ Like that's basically the litany of questions I get on Barstool so I which I get, like that's part of my gig. But.

R: Did you expect that going in by the way?

E: I did and I didn't. And I really don't. It doesn't. I'm here to build a great brand and I believe in this company. I love Barstool Sports. I am so passionate about what we're doing. I think we are so interesting so I don't really care if you like us or don't like us or you like the editorial or you don't look like the editorial. I think we are a company to watch regardless if you think the jokes are funny and you like our editorial tone. To the question of whether Barstool would be Barstool. You know it's funny. I've shared this with before but when I was the only person of the 70-ish people, guys who came to interview for this job who didn't ask about the smoke shows. And or didn't give an opinion about what should happen with the smoke shows. So I remember when I was meeting with our Editor in Chief and he said well, are you going to ask me about the smoke shows.

R: Which is the girls section.

E: Which is the girls section yes. We post 2 posts a day out of 100 and 180 pieces of content a day are you know a woman who sends in her photo. Most of these women end up getting a modeling gigs from that photo submission and the recognition they get from Barstool but regardless it's like another topic for another day. But I was the only one that didn't ask about it because I do believe that if you were to change what Barstool was, where it came from, the way it talked about what it talked about it wouldn't be Barstool. And there is such an intense loyalty with our fans to our brand and our content and our guys that if you were to take away or chip away at what was, its chipping away at our relationship and the single best thing that Barstool has is its fans and we are deeply loyal to stoolies and to our fan base. We care about them more than we care about anybody else, and we feel a sense of responsibility and to not cheat out on the relationship. So my thing coming in was like look yeah you can get a tactical CEO or General Manager who would say change this and do that and do it the way everybody else does it or this doesn't meet a PC standard or a normal media company would not do this that or the other things. And I don't believe in that. I I believe that that Dave got Barstool to where it was when I joined you know a year and a half ago. By being honest, by being authentic, and by being basically loyal to his teammates or the other people in Barstool and to their audience. I don't think it's the right thing to do to look back and chip away at, by a 2018 standard this comment from 20, 2007 would never have flied - of course but I am interested in building a company for today.

R: How do you keep that audience as they grow older? When the 18 to 25 18 to 34 year old audience is now you know 34 to 50. How do you keep the conversation going are you thinking about it?

E: Yeah. Always. You know it's funny we had a Snapchat came into the office yesterday and we were talking about you know what does our demographic profile look like on Snapchat. How is that different from what we're doing on Instagram. We have 700 social accounts. Which when you would look at Barstool Sports you would say oh there's one social account plus a bunch of funny guys and their social accounts like we're way way way bigger than that. And part of being way bigger than that is understanding what is are what appeals to everyone. Right we liked Rough and Rowdy. When Dave and I bought Rough and Rowdy we thought this could be bigger than Barstool because it doesn't matter if you're 17 years old or you're 55 years old. If you're into boxing or you're into a five hour highly entertaining entertaining show on a Friday night of backyard brawls from West Virginia then this is going to appeal to you.

R: Rough and Rowdy kind of is like a combination in my head of Old School and…

E:  Jackass.

R: And also Gangs of New York.

E: Yep 100 percent.

R: Which is truly old school.

E: Yeah absolutely.

R: So you have these people boxing in front of audiences of like 500 people and ten dollars for a pay per view.

E: Ten dollars. That's the early bird special. So $15.99.

R: I would know the early bird special.

E: But you're right. Yeah that's right. Cause you’re a woman you’re like on top of your stuff. But we also have brands that are related to you know we created Pod Fathers which is about being a dad. We looked at the we looked at the podcasting space and we said hey the only podcast for men who are dads are from women and they're generally Christian. So there's white women and Christians, white Christian women making podcasts for parents. And we said hey why wouldn't we Barstool that. Why wouldn't we have real guys who are dads talking about what life is

R: What for you has been the toughest lesson along the way?

E: There's a lot of lessons. Stamina stamina and being comfortable being uncomfortable and you know one of the things that I've really learned from Dave which I appreciate is he just has a really you know I grew up in really corporate environments professionally. And I followed a very prescribed route of what you do first second third and fourth and I feel like I did take risks in that process in that process and I worked really hard in that process. But I appreciate how Dave sees the world, and I think that I've learned a lot from that.

R: You experiment.

E: All the time and we take on a lot. We have so much ambition and we do it with a really small staff and we do it with

R: How big is the staff?

E: It's now about 100 but it was when I got there it was I don't know maybe 15 or 16.

R: Is there anything in terms of the management of controversy that you in retrospect you would think about doing differently?

E: I think it's important to have a North Star. And I think most companies or not most companies like a lot of companies struggle with what the North Star is, what's the right thing to do?

R: Especially now.

E: Especially now. And who are you I think most companies or many companies don't know who they are.

R: Especially now again.

E: I mean Vox laid off 50 people today which is sad and most of the people they laid off as far as I could tell in reading the news were were people who were making content for Facebook. And what that said to me was Vox made a pivot to staff up on the promise of monetization and reach and growth on somebody else's platform. And businesses have to do that especially businesses which are ad supported like you have to go where the audience is and you have to go where you can make money. And what I love about Barstool is we know exactly who we are. We know exactly who our audience is, and the North Star is staying true to that and not you know moving which way the wind blows.

R: Worst advice you've received along the way.

E: I've gotten like a ton of bad advice. Don't take the Barstool job would be one. We'll see how that plays out.

R: I was going to say are you sure is it too soon to say it was bad advice - I’m joking.

E: It is definitely bad advice. To suck it up. I hate you know I used to get advice just like be quiet and suck it up.

R: When did you first get that advice what circumstance was it?

E: I got, when I worked at Fidelity, I got a lot of bad advice which was why. Why aren't you normal? Why aren't you happy with what you have? You should be happy with what you have.

R: You're lucky.

E: You're lucky to work here. And I don't like to be told what to do generally so I didn't like that. That was bad advice. That was bad advice.

R: It wasn't bad financial advice.

E: Yeah probably wasn't. I mean it's definitely not bad financial advice. I mean. I actually totally agree with that. She was like you're an idiot you're going to make a third of your salary. And I was like OK that sounds great. I'm definitely up for that. Sign me up. But I, the other pieces of bad advice I've gotten are to not do the right thing for the customer and to do the right thing for the business. When those two were not you know good businesses those two things are mutually exclusive. And in businesses where they haven't been to do the right thing you always want to do the right thing for the company that you work for and your boss or whatnot. But to not do right by the end user is bad advice and those would be the worst pieces of advice I've gotten. Yeah.

R: Erika Nardini thank you so much for joining me. I really enjoyed the conversation.

E: Thank you for having me.

R: And I'm sure this will be one where our listeners will have lots of opinions.

E: I’m sure.

R: So feel free to share them with me and Erica how can people reach you?

E: They can reach me on Twitter. I'm pretty responsive on Twitter my handle is @EKANardini.

R: Thank you.

E: Thank you!  

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