How to prioritize, hire and benefit from an executive coach

Some prefer to keep it all business. Others want to talk about eeeeverything.

What all agreed on at CMO Coffee Talk last week is that a good executive coach can be critical to success, career progression and just plain sanity.

Special thank you to Carilu Dietrich and my own coach Brittany Drozd for joining both sessions and sharing such great insights.

If you are in the CMO Coffee Talk community, don't miss Carilu's executive coach resource list in #swipe-file in Slack.

If you are a B2B CMO or head of marketing and want to join a community of 2,600+ of your peers, let me know or click here to learn more and sign up.

Extensive chat highlights, recommended reading and more below.

There was a great article in the WSJ a few years ago basically saying never ask your spouse for work advice. They aren’t objective

That’s such a good point, I’ve always found that if you do well in sports or something really active it translates into all other areas of your life!

We def need to talk about health. I feel I need a constant reminder

To just do basic stuff

I think these are different coaches - I had a marketing coach who acted as a sounding board and a sanity check and I had a business coach to understand how to maneuver amongst my C level peers

It's so easy to get out of balance when work demands get intense - it becomes the new normal and other parts of your life can really suffer

it’s like your shadow … it doesn’t go away :) I’d love to hear more about your shift from the FT role to your current role. How did that process unfold?

I believe the quote is, "You got to know when to hold em, know when to fold em..>"

Last year, I heard another CMO talk about the “Four Burners Theory” and I found it personally very helpful. The idea being that you have four burners (like a stove) in life - family, friends, health, work - and you should stop expecting yourself to always be fully firing all four burners. Basically - there are seasons in life when you can choose to focus more on a certain burner.

Here’s an article that explains - https://jamesclear.com/four-burners-theory

Question:? As someone who has sought out a wide range of professional help to keep my sanity, how do you guys draw the line between coaches and therapists.? The line has gotten murky for me in the past.

I also found that this isn't usually an immediate fit, it takes (at least for me) a few attempts to find the right fit

Damn I feel so seen right now, insane. Thanks for this real and vulnerable conversation

Weird question…do you need to have a goal / outcome to enter into coaching? My entire life is driven by goals and I kind of feel like I need some space to talk and explore the challenges in my head where there’s not pressure to achieve something. When I’ve interviewed coaches they all start with “what do you want to achieve?” And I just realized that’s what’s been turning me off…

I think "figuring out what I want to achieve generally" is a good goal for you to shoot for with a coach.

maybe that's the sounding board vs. advisor model?

In working with traditional therapists over the years, I’ve sometimes found it exhausting to explain a work situation because they couldn’t relate.

My coach never talked about metrics. It was just about me and helping me navigate / manage stress & relationships primarily

Remain flexible

I want to increase my happiness conversion rate by 4%

my goal was to be able to unpack problems.

My therapist is a pretty decent coach because she doesn’t hear the work politics, she hears how its affecting me and she ties it back to some childhood stuff we’re working through in my personal life

My approach has been similar - different coaches at different times to address what's happening with me at the time. But now I really wish I had a coach that's been with me throughout my career. So I'm stuck in the coach of the moment cycle.

To your point about having a series of coaches at different points, how do you know when to end a coaching relationship? How often are they open ended versus for a certain period of time?

Bryan happiness conversion has gone the way of the MQL. You need to measure the happiness pipeline and your stage progression

I think you know when you know - when the call doesn’t feel like a good use of your time

HQL - happiness qualified lead

Plus, I'd like to increase my happiness mix to include much more inbound.

Definitely pick / hire your own coach imo

Confidentiality is critical!

As always, if you aren’t paying for it, YOU are the product

I’ve found that it’s tough to have a super-long-term coaching relationship.? We get so close that I think the objectivity gets lost to challenge and say when I’m screwing up.

I have a cognitive behavioral therapy psychologist who is also a business coach. Depending on my needs for any given session, we discuss my personal challenges or my work challenges. I’ve worked with her for over a decade. She has helped me be more strategic. Now I also have an executive coach at my company who has a marketing background, which is helpful in a different way.

I love the vulnerability of this group and am comforted to know I am normal in needing/having a coach.

that's also the pro/con of 360 reviews - you always know who said what

group coaches at work are not there JUST FOR YOU. There is an underlying reason and goal. Having your own support is needed as well -

I am very thoughtful about what I say to the executive coach that my company is paying for. While she says it is confidential, I think you never know what might be said back to the company.

Yeah the last exec team I was on, nobody “said the thing” ever. They just listened to the CEO then bad-mouthed her behind her back and talked about how they disagreed. Super dysfunctional.

Spark Brilliance: How the Science of Positive Psychology Will Ignite, Engage, and Transform Your Team https://a.co/d/g0Qujpi

It depends of how much of a "being an asshole" problem the leader needs to become too in the balance of how coaching will play out.

My best friend is a coach and she says so much of what we do or dont do is based on fear

It takes humility and that is not a universal trait....

agree, or a lack of faith.

company paid for mine. I should have negotiated that when joining next company -- or considered it in overall comp envelope. Exec coaches are pretty pricey.

Not getting smoked by my kid on the mountain is a motivation for my workouts.

When you are paying you show up

I feel like you can only trust 100% a coach who is not connected with your company. That might be just me, though.

accountability is a great motivator...

I find my company coach very helpful but still, she’s connected to the company as she’s paid by them.

My best friend is a psychologist and she refuses to treat me, even when I invite myself over and lay on her couch and whine / wine. Not cool. ??

sounds great, but no way I take it seriously if it’s online. I need someone in my face.

Hiring a really good high level executive assistant can also be a good source of company paid coaching...?

https://brittanydrozd.com/

I had a coach once tell me she draws the line between therapy and coaching by not digging into the past but only focusing on the future (sometimes hard to do)

When should our company pay for coaching vs something we re investing in from our own pocket?

Love to hear about difference of coaching and therapy. In addition, I have felt scammed by some coaches where there was a LOT of “whoo whoo” What are considerations to look for when looking for a coach and red flags?

i love the idea of finding a coach who has been a CMO, so gets it. therapy + directly related wisdom... what a win

Who should pay for the coach? Or is this more of a mentor?

?

Def not a mentor, and the discussion of who is paying and what that means is def a good one

ive had amazing coaches through work, but it was specific on leadership, public speaking - and you cant feel 100% free sharing

Mentor who had done a turnaround

and coach to help me be better at managing a board

Would appreciate at some point a discussion around what you should expect to spend on a CMO-specific coach.

I work for a European company - they provide coaching for the Senior leadership team and managers

?I’ve had my employer pay for it and I’ve also paid for a coach myself.? Who pays for it impacts how freely you feel to speak to them, whether or not it should. I’ve had the most productive relationships with the coach I paid for myself.

As with anything else, the person paying for the service is the customer.

I think mentors do more modeling. Advisors do more telling. Coaches do more asking.

i would think work life balance is a topic to explore with a coach or advisor

I’ve collected career coaches and mentors over time.. arguably I’ve paid it forward and been the same for others. But these were ‘free’ or ‘earned’

Do I have have anything left end of the day to give to the people who matter the most.

in my experience, therapy is more looking at the past and how it translates into how you feel, and coaching is about looking forward and what you will do to get to the goals you want.

Therapist - really focused on my emotional and mental state, and what I may need to do to get to a better state of mind. This can include a LOT of talk about the stress of my job, but often we conclude a session with things like: making sure I'm running every day, making sure I'm making time for meditation, finding small ways to ensure I'm taking care of my mental and emotional state.

Coaching - will definitely talk about my mental and emotional state, but a lot of the conversation is around - ok, if this is the mental/emotional state I'm in at work, let's imagine what I'd change if I could and what do I need to do to make that change happen. OR, if I don't know what that could look like, here are exercises I should work on to identify what I might want things to look like. Then break down what steps I need to take to make that happen.

Having the initial conversation is SUPER revealing.

My coach was very focused about my working behavior and the team dynamics. If my working behavior stemmed from personal experiences, it was discussed.

I’m curious if folks are aware of different coaching certifications and if those are perceived as valuable among the “buyer side”…

how to break up with a coach if it's not working or served its purpose?

I have started listening to some coaching podcasts which has helped me think about how to manage any future coaching sessions to keep them focused.

For me the coach made a huge difference from a geek who didn’t feel comfortable to talking to people and thought public speaking was akin to a death sentence to someone who enjoys to be connecting with people at large events and can talk on stage with ease

Negotiate it upfront in a new role

I listen to HBR’s Coaching Real Leaders, Adam Grant’s Work Life (which isn’t coaching but in the neighborhood) and I’m going to check out Think Fast, Talk Smart

My last company, we had a coaching firm that worked with us as the E-team and also each had individual coach.? Was great for both E-team functioning and managing personal growth/challenges.?? Not sure how common that is.? (Trium was the coaching group).??? I would ask for executive coaching to be covered in any new role moving forward

Q - What do you guys think of coaching via dialogues with ChatGPT / Pi.ai ?

Yep. I hire them from the marketing budget as a strategist.

Thanks for the specificity around creative ways to pay for valuable coaching!

We had Paid Time Fitness (PTF) at my last company, can be used for mental or physical fitness. I used it for exec coaching.

At what size/stage do you find companies willing to invest in coaching between those leadership team members (CEO / CMO)? I had some coaching provided to me when I became a director at Microsoft but at my next two roles (Series D, Series B) it was NOT a thing that was being invested in at all.

I agree/feel this.? When I was with IBM, this was expected/part of the benefits. In other places like where I am now, I’m 100% sure it’d need to be out of my own pocket.

There is a line between consulting and coaching, too. A consultant gives you answers, where a coach helps you discover the answers.

One of the coolest benefits that my previous company offered all employees before we were acquired was access to 12 professional coaching sessions per year. Anyone at the company could take advantage. It was super helpful for people to navigate difficult conversations with peers, directs, and their managers. It definitely helped me stay sane and gain confidence in myself.

A gem, if you are not aware of this app (daily centering) my CEO in Zurich told me about it a few years ago He listens on this “bicycle to work daily”??? https://apps.apple.com/us/app/waking-up-meditation-wisdom/id1307736395

If you all are looking for a really interesting leadership development program that includes coaching, check out pathwise leadership. https://pathwiseleadership.com/contact.html

If you can align deeply, you can act quickly and adjust often

the more senior / the more sensitivities are required for culture + corp dynamics. Often far more complex the more able a CMO becomes in their career.

You have to become more of a student of leadership than marketing at the higher levels

Imposter syndrome is universal

Imposter syndrome also means you’re growing ??

I read a quote recently: There are no grown-ups. We are all making it up as we go.

Reframing perspective is what great coaches do. They unlock the potential already in you by doing this (asking questions and often biting their tongues when they want to jump in and say something)

It’s easier to believe in yourself when you land there, vs. a coaching telling you.

The COACHING HABIT was added to our reading list on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/dl/invite/cbQJoNW?ref_=wl_share

Vulnerability = Doing something with no guarantees

With a CMO advisor or coach— confidentiality is also critical…

I am building a new startup - so founder and CMO. I know my weaknesses and want a coach but can’t afford hundred’s and thousands right now. Where can I turn for resources to help me? Are there people that do group sessions that can still benefit me at this point but are not so expensive?

My two favorite questions to ask people I'm coaching is "Why"? when they give me an answer to another question and "How" they can manifest it. I also focus a lot on trust and influence : )

The COACHING HABIT: https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/dl/invite/cbQJoNW?ref_=wl_share

Coaching Questions: A Coach's Guide to Powerful Asking Skills: https://a.co/d/cZEXkdY

I just found out about this, which just got started (I think)? https://www.wave.ai/plans-and-pricing

An open, friendly, welcoming manner is important to be most helpful and to give tough love when needed

Please just don’t tell me I’m “building character”. I feel like I have plenty of character. ??

I would look for a couple of peers (in this group or others) who would be willing to spend time as sounding boards, brainstorm, review plans with you.??? I have a few tips on my site, www.cmomentor.com, but real time advice and coaching is the best

My wife says I keep facing the same problems over and over again, because I am unwilling to change my self.? I then ask her for help. And she says “I’m not your therapist.”

IN a team coaching environment, the coach should be very up front with all involved about what will be shared with the CMO? (or whomever is sponsoring).

The body keeps score, as they say.

thank you for sharing. I have to remember work is an org, it’s not a family. It’s hard for me to set different boundaries as I had a similar family dynamic.

I got to pre-read this book - great exercises on how to get out of your own way https://www.toomanytrees.com/book

so insightful. One of my triggers is in supporting working moms and I definitely lost my cool a couple of times when I felt the environment wasn't being fair / conducive to younger less tenured moms on my most recent team.

The boundaries issue is a real one!

The next time someone says “make the logo bigger” I’m going to ask them when I should start coding/programming our SaaS product and then help the CFO on our M&A financial strategy.... Others would NEVER let us in their lane.

CEOs that feel like they have to edit every ad is a huge red flag. They usually are not the ICP, but want the ad to talk to them instead. Then you get in trouble when it doesn’t hit

All I want in a boss/manager/leader is a mentor

To them, it isn’t crazy, or they wouldn’t have asked for it or stated it.

It is only crazy if it does not work for you... hmm need to think about that a little more

For a great book (and author) on self limiting beliefs, imposter syndrome, and self sabotage …

The Big Leap: Conquer Your Hidden Fear and Take Life to the Next Level https://a.co/d/aYrDJ4Y

The CMO and CEO need to have a strong fit, especially during challenging business conditions. If that fit is not there that’s a signal that you need to change jobs.

I think it is also important to determine what level of importance is on that request — is it a must have or nice to have. This helps with the negotiation.

I’m reading (on Audible) Return on Ambition. It’s a great book on balancing well-being, growth and achievement goal setting

Great point- we have to know when the fit doesn’t work

so true. we take it on because "we're strong"

I feel like a bobblehead on these coffee chats - nonstop nodding along with everyone

Or we’re problem solvers and the banana leaders are the biggest problems to solve

Health is priority #1 for us all. Easy to forget

Pushing through is very common for us marketers, but unfortunately it puts us last behind everyone else’s needs.

You can’t change everything but it’s how you deal with it. What do they say?

I so appreciate this conversation. Awesome.

whoa. i feel this discussion. sometimes I talk about other people’s toxicity as a coat that I don’t need to wear.

oh i know that one well. And the high price paid for love. And the work needed to heal and grow as an adult.

You’re not alone. Yay for rants

Thank you for this conversation today, thank you for always being so open and sharing so personally.

CMO is a state of mind ??

I appreciate your vulnerability in saying this out loud!

I think this says more about being clear on how we choose the right jobs and the right exec teams

Amazing session!? Thank you everyone for sharing.

Absolutely - investment is worth it

It’s a testament to this group that we had this level of conversation. Thank you.

Excellent session (as always).? Thank you everyone for sharing. Have a great weekend.